Re: [PD] messy situations: writesf~ feature request

[i...@hansroels.be]

hi Roman,

Here is a patch that returns the recording status as good as possible. 
It checks the order of messages (to writesf~), the current dsp status 
and if the audio signal going to writesf~ is totally silent.  I hope 
this patch should be an improvement in 'messy' situations...
But I still think that the error messages (in the Pd main window) of 
writesf~ are a bit confusing and incomplete (and a simple output 
triggering a '1' or 'yes' would simplify its use).


Hans


On 3/9/21 2:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

Hi Hans

I don't think [writesf~] is supposed to be or should become a
'batteries included'-recording facility. I think its usage is much more
flexible when it _does not_ report warning and errors under the
circumstances you propose.

Pd - being a programming language - provides all the utilities to write
your own recorder that checks for things like DSP status and whether a
file was already openened or not. I totally understand how in messy
situations some mishaps easily happen. That's why I usually use a
recorder patch that has a single button for everything.

   * first press: open 'save file' dialog
   * second press: start recording
   * third press: stop recording

The button color represents current state. Dark means no file has been
selected. Flashing means a file has been selected and now it is ready
for recording. Light means it is currently recording.

Your recorder might need different features. Anyway, I suggest to build
something that suits your needs.

Roman


On Tue, 2021-03-09 at 11:10 +0100, i...@hansroels.be wrote:

Hello,

I think it's a problem that in 'messy' situations you don't have
feedback from writesf~ to know/see that the recording is happening.
With 'messy' I mean situations where you aren't fully concentrated on
recording, for example: simultaneously performing on stage and making
a multichannel recording, moderating a meeting and at the same time
recording it. I have noticed that after some of these messy
situations, I didn't have a recording or a channel was
missing/silent. I tested writesf~ and here are some observations:

A) if you send a [stop( message to writesf~ after [open( the
recording doesn't start but there is no error message (in the main Pd
window); next, if you send [start( there is an error message and no
recording.
B) if you send [start( -and thus start the recording-, next switch
off the DSP, switch it on again, the recording automatically
continues (from the moment the DSP has been switched on again). No
error message is printed.
C) if during a recording, the DSP is switched off and the patch -with
writesf~- is also closed, the recording stops of course but no panic:
the recorded file is OK and available to be read. No error message is
printed.
D) If you send a second [start( message during the recording, an
error message is printed but in fact the recording continues without
any problems.

E) If you send [open(, next  [start( when the DSP is off, the
recording doesn't start but no error message is printed. Next, when
you switch on the DSP, the recording automatically starts.

F) If the signal connection going to writesf~ is broken, the
recording starts without an error message, but the recorded file will
be useless: it only has zeroes.

G) If no signal at all is connected to writesf~ it still records
(zeroes) if the DSP is on. No error message or warning is printed.

B) & C) & E) are great ! I think D) & A) are a bit strange and in
situation F) & G) it would be better that the recording wouldn't
start or at least give some kind of error or warning message).

So here is my  feature request:

writesf~ has an output which displays if the recording is happening.
writesf~ doesn't record or outputs a 'no input' warning message when
the (upstream) signal leading to writesf~ is broken or missing
Hans



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[PD] messy situations: writesf~ feature request

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hello,

I think it's a problem that in 'messy' situations you don't have 
feedback from writesf~ to know/see that the recording is happening. With 
'messy' I mean situations where you aren't fully concentrated on 
recording, for example: simultaneously performing on stage and making a 
multichannel recording, moderating a meeting and at the same time 
recording it. I have noticed that after some of these messy situations, 
I didn't have a recording or a channel was missing/silent. I tested 
writesf~ and here are some observations:


A) if you send a [stop( message to writesf~ after [open( the recording 
doesn't start but there is no error message (in the main Pd window); 
next, if you send [start( there is an error message and no recording.
B) if you send [start( -and thus start the recording-, next switch off 
the DSP, switch it on again, the recording automatically continues (from 
the moment the DSP has been switched on again). No error message is printed.
C) if during a recording, the DSP is switched off and the patch -with 
writesf~- is also closed, the recording stops of course but no panic: 
the recorded file is OK and available to be read. No error message is 
printed.
D) If you send a second [start( message during the recording, an error 
message is printed but in fact the recording continues without any problems.


E) If you send [open(, next  [start( when the DSP is off, the recording 
doesn't start but no error message is printed. Next, when you switch on 
the DSP, the recording automatically starts.


F) If the signal connection going to writesf~ is broken, the recording 
starts without an error message, but the recorded file will be useless: 
it only has zeroes.


G) If no signal at all is connected to writesf~ it still records 
(zeroes) if the DSP is on. No error message or warning is printed.


B) & C) & E) are great ! I think D) & A) are a bit strange and in 
situation F) & G) it would be better that the recording wouldn't start 
or at least give some kind of error or warning message).


So here is my  feature request:

1. writesf~ has an output which displays if the recording is happening.
2. writesf~ doesn't record or outputs a 'no input' warning message when
   the (upstream) signal leading to writesf~ is broken or missing

Hans


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Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

[i...@hansroels.be]

On 1/21/21 6:15 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Em qui., 21 de jan. de 2021 às 07:44, i...@hansroels.be 
<mailto:i...@hansroels.be> <mailto:i...@hansroels.be>> escreveu:


I didn't have time to look at your preset (...) but it seems
similar to the one that I created for my abunch abstractions


Yours actually seem different. And I couldn't really get it yet :) it 
doesn't seem you're using sends/receives, anyway, gotta spend more 
time to try and figure it out.


The negative side is that it takes a lot of work to implement...


you mean that it takes time for one to load it in a patch and set it up?


Yes. If you create new abstractions and patches you have to build them 
in such a way that they send and receive everything from the central 
preset system. I noticed that after a few years I was more and more 
reluctant/lazy to implement my own preset system in new abstractions. So 
I end up having abstractions with and without a preset system... and 
only when it's really necessary I embed my preset system into newer 
abstractions. Not really ideal...


Hans


Or that you took forever to make it? Well, one you did it, it's done :)



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Re: [PD] Polyphonic voice allocation and sustain pedal

[i...@hansroels.be]

hello,
Here is a vanilla patch simulating a sustain pedal. It stores the 
note-offs while the pedal is down and releases them when the pedal is 
lifted.


best, Hans

On 1/3/21 7:55 PM, alfonso santimone wrote:
Let's see...if any other Pure Data fellow will test your [else\voices] 
and [else\suspedal] externals i guess we can have more test cases and 
see what's going on.
In the meantime i'll still try to find the simplest way to show my 
findings while testing this particular Else objects ;-)


best!

www.elgallorojorecords.bandcamp.com/ 


soundcloud.com/alfonsosantimone 
www.facebook.com/alfonsosantimone 




On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 7:42 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
mailto:por...@gmail.com>> wrote:




Em dom., 3 de jan. de 2021 às 07:18, alfonso santimone
mailto:alfonso.santim...@gmail.com>>
escreveu:

I'm doing some experiment with [else/voices] and
[else/suspedal] to. Alexandre Torres Porres is doing a very
good work with Else lib.


but unfortunately I can't reproduce your bug and understand what
you need :( I'll gladly work on a solution with that when the
picture is clear ;)


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Re: [PD] [shifter~]

[i...@hansroels.be]

Thanks Julián for all the work. I tried to compile shifter~ on ubuntu 
studio but this was the result:


sudo make shifter~
 info: using Makefile.pdlibbuilder version 0.6.0
 info: making target shifter~ in lib shifter
 info: linking objects in shifter~.pd_linux for lib shifter
cc -rdynamic -shared -fPIC -Wl,-rpath,"\$ORIGIN",--enable-new-dtags    
-o shifter~.pd_linux shifter~.o  -lc -lm

shifter~.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
Makefile.pdlibbuilder:884: recipe for target 'shifter~.pd_linux' failed
make: *** [shifter~.pd_linux] Error 1

best, Hans

On 12/3/20 7:37 AM, Julián Villegas wrote:

Thanks Christof for your suggestion,

I finally had time to change the Makefile, I think it should work now:

https://bitbucket.org/julovi/shifter/src/master/

Cheers,

Julian.





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Re: [PD] delay compensation in pitch-shifting

[i...@hansroels.be]

see the attached patch.
I now think it is impossible to compensate for the delay of a variable 
delay pitch shifter. Just because it's variable :) Anyway, this is 
Miller's clear explanation: 
http://msp.ucsd.edu/techniques/latest/book-html/node115.html


best, Hans

On 11/24/20 2:59 PM, Maximiliano Estudies wrote:


Hi Hans,

how are you measuring the delays?

Cheers,
Maxi

El vie, 20 nov 2020 a las 15:25, i...@hansroels.be 
<mailto:i...@hansroels.be> (<mailto:i...@hansroels.be>>) escribió:


Hello,

Hopefully people with more knowledge of audio processing can
answer the following questions. Background: I make patches in
which the microphone input is modified by different kinds of
pitch-shifting, I would like to compensate the delays caused by
these pitch-shifts and thus avoid artefacts.

1) How much delay does a pitch-shifter based on a variable delay
(the classic rotating-tape-head style) produce? as in
G09.pitchshift.pd in the audio.examples folder. I did a quick test
with a one-sample-audio-trigger going immediately to the first
channel of a recording patch in Pd and simultaneously going to a
variable delay pitchshift (pp.pitchshift~ from AudioLab), routed
into the second channel of the recorder. The delays are quite
large and vary between 30 and 80 milliseconds, there seems to be
no relation with the amount of pitch-shift. In the pitch-shifting
patch I also notice that the delay varies between zero and the
window size. Is there a way/patch to calculate and compensate for
this delay? (for example, if you want to combine the original with
the pitch-shifted signal in a patch). Or is this impossible
because the delay is variable...

2) I'd like to know the delay in ms with FFT processing if you
have a 1024 sample window with overlap factor of 4, for example,
in a pitch-shifting vocoder? I found this info on a MAx/MSP
mailing list, is it correct?: "The I/ O delay is equal to the
window size minus the hop size (e.g., for a 1024-sample FFT window
with an overlap factor of 4, the hop size is equal to 256, and the
overall delay from input to output is 768 samples)"; at 44100
sampling rate this is around 17ms delay (for a window of 1024
samples, overlap 4).

3) Conclusion: any pitch-shifting technique introduces tens of
milliseconds delay? (Pitch-shifting based on granular synthesis is
not a solution, I think it also requires a buffer of at least 50ms.)

Hans

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Re: [PD] delay compensation in pitch-shifting (i...@hansroels.be)

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hi Julian,
Thanks for informing about your port of [shifter~]! I tried to compile 
[shifter~] on ubuntu studio but after the 'make shifter~' command I get 
a list of messages like:

undefined reference to 'main'
undefined reference to 'pd_new'
undefined reference to 'pd_new' 'floatinlet_new'
...

best, Hans
On 11/24/20 5:30 AM, Peter P. wrote:

Nice Juliàn, is that a variable-delay ("rotating head") pitch shifter as
well? In that case, how would it compare to G09.pitchshift.pd ?
cheersz, P

* Julián Villegas  [2020-11-24 03:45]:

Hi Hans,

I’m sorry I’m late to the party and that I can’t answer your questions, but I 
wanted to call your attention to [shifter~], this is a PSOLA pitch shifter 
object that I ported to Pd from its eponymous version in Max-MSP, developed by 
Tristan Jehan. The source code and MacOS compiled library are here:

https://bitbucket.org/julovi/shifter/src/master/

Cheers,

Julian.






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[PD] delay compensation in pitch-shifting

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hello,

Hopefully people with more knowledge of audio processing can answer the 
following questions. Background: I make patches in which the microphone 
input is modified by different kinds of pitch-shifting, I would like to 
compensate the delays caused by these pitch-shifts and thus avoid 
artefacts.


1) How much delay does a pitch-shifter based on a variable delay (the 
classic rotating-tape-head style) produce? as in G09.pitchshift.pd in 
the audio.examples folder. I did a quick test with a 
one-sample-audio-trigger going immediately to the first channel of a 
recording patch in Pd and simultaneously going to a variable delay 
pitchshift (pp.pitchshift~ from AudioLab), routed into the second 
channel of the recorder. The delays are quite large and vary between 30 
and 80 milliseconds, there seems to be no relation with the amount of 
pitch-shift. In the pitch-shifting patch I also notice that the delay 
varies between zero and the window size. Is there a way/patch to 
calculate and compensate for this delay? (for example, if you want to 
combine the original with the pitch-shifted signal in a patch). Or is 
this impossible because the delay is variable...


2) I'd like to know the delay in ms with FFT processing if you have a 
1024 sample window with overlap factor of 4, for example, in a 
pitch-shifting vocoder? I found this info on a MAx/MSP mailing list, is 
it correct?: "The I/ O delay is equal to the window size minus the hop 
size (e.g., for a 1024-sample FFT window with an overlap factor of 4, 
the hop size is equal to 256, and the overall delay from input to output 
is 768 samples)"; at 44100 sampling rate this is around 17ms delay (for 
a window of 1024 samples, overlap 4).


3) Conclusion: any pitch-shifting technique introduces tens of 
milliseconds delay? (Pitch-shifting based on granular synthesis is not a 
solution, I think it also requires a buffer of at least 50ms.)


Hans

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Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency

[i...@hansroels.be]

hello,

I've been making in situ performances in the last five years with this 
kind of live audio broadcasts. My experience in pre-corona times was:


 * that old-fashioned solutions (such as FM or silent disco) are the
   most reliable BUT some mobile phones don't have FM radios any more &
   (younger) people often have no experience with FM radio.
 * I also looked for internet (browser-based) or LAN solutions but
   there are always large latencies (> 500ms); the only solution would
   be to ask participants to install a specific app or program but
   asking this to passers-by or 'random' participants creates new
   problems...

Two years ago I was also emailing about network audio with people from 
Cleanfeed, a small company. They seemed to offer a nice solution and I 
tried their system for a few months. But at that moment their service 
didn't provide a one-to-all broadcast, it was a system to provide fast 
and high-quality audio over the internet via browsers (for example for 
radio interviews).

https://cleanfeed.net/

I don't have any experience with Audio over OSC, hopefully this could be 
a solution...?


best, Hans

On 5/11/20 9:50 AM, Christof Ressi wrote:

would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC?
AoO can work with relatively low latency, but usually you'd need to 
write an app. Since it is essentially a C/C++ library, it should be 
possible to compile it to WASM with Emscripten and then run it in the 
brower. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my TODO list :-) We 
currently use AoO for our virtual rehearsal space here at the IEM and 
I'll make a new release in the next few days.


Christof

On 11.05.2020 02:25, Marco Schretter wrote:

dear list,

i'm thinking about the following (corona)performance-situation 
without any good solution by now:


live performance situation where (an arbitrary no. of) people on the 
street can pass by and listen somehow to the performance live audio 
in 'realtime' with their mobile devices. the performers are eg. 
behind a window or on a distant stage, so some of the live-sound will 
be audible to the listeners too.


that's why the system solution should have a low latency. the 
situation can also be considerated similar to a drive-in cinema.


i tried streaming with pd [mp3cast~] / [oggcast~] to an icecast 
server and listen to the signal on the lan with a browser but the 
latency is hell (device dependent, browser dependent, no control of 
buffers on receiver etc)...4000ms :-( . also other streaming 
solutions had quite a big latency.


another thought is to use ukw/fm radio transmission but i cannot 
expect people on the street to know how to receive ukw/fm radio with 
their phones. buying an event-licence for fm radio would only make 
sense if the listeners come by car. not my case.


silent disco systems also work (already tried this) but in corona 
times this is not hygenic and for me not possible to have so many 
receiver-headphones for an arbitrary number of listeners.


connecting to a 'performance'-WLAN for the users with their mobile 
device would be best. access should be easy - the users really can be 
anyone, so maybe without any tech-knowledge. browser-based would give 
access to anyone.


i'm thinking about a realization similar to the sennheiser connect 
system which distributes several audiostreams on a wlan. sennheiser 
connect is app-based and in worst-worst-case (means android) the 
system seems to have approx. 200ms delay. ios was faster in my 
listening tests. the problem is that the users need an app which 
means internet access for the installation...



questions:

ideas for a realization?

how 'low-latency' could a browser based streaming in a lan/wlan be?

would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC? the question here 
is the receiver ?app? (webPD?).


as i found out several artists and audioengineers would be happy 
about a solution for this: how to reach the audience in a social 
distancing live-situation...


thanks for any hint
m




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Re: [PD] Audio delay by symples (for comb filter)

[i...@hansroels.be]

I also needed a delay in samples and so I made an abstraction in Pd 
vanilla, delaying a signal with x number of  samples; for example a one 
sample delay is [delaysam 1]

I think this is the correct way of doing this without needing externals...
Hans

On 1/25/20 9:16 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
cyclone/delay~ and else/ffdelay~ also allow for delay lines defined in 
samples (or ms)


but this can also be done in vanilla like people said (though somewhat 
inconvenient)


cheers

Em sáb., 25 de jan. de 2020 às 15:33, Ingo > escreveu:


Thanks guys!

[zexy/z~] looks exactly like what I'm looking for!

Ingo


> you can just use [delwrite~] + [delread~], but you have to make
sure that
> they are scheduled in the right order, see
"G05.execution.order.pd" in
> "doc/3.audio.examples". Also, you have to convert from samples to
> milliseconds.
>
> For convenience, I often use [z~] from zexy, which is a delay
line in a
> single
> object, with the delay time given in samples.
>
> Christof
>
>
> > Hi everybody!
> >
> > I'm planning on delaying a bandpass filter by samples to
create a comb
> > filter effect.
> > Is this possible or can it be done only by audio blocks?
> >
> > If it is possible which object(s) would I use?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ingo






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--
#N canvas 308 1008 450 311 10;
#X obj 79 47 inlet~;
#N canvas 101 1214 450 210 delay-write 0;
#X obj 63 15 inlet~;
#X obj 64 149 outlet~;
#X obj 122 95 delwrite~ \$0-delaysample 1000;
#X connect 0 0 2 0;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X restore 80 91 pd delay-write;
#N canvas 787 998 349 300 delay-read 0;
#X obj 63 15 inlet~;
#X obj 65 205 outlet~;
#X obj 157 46 inlet~;
#X obj 64 148 +~;
#X obj 157 81 vd~ \$0-delaysample;
#X connect 0 0 3 0;
#X connect 2 0 4 0;
#X connect 3 0 1 0;
#X connect 4 0 3 1;
#X restore 79 250 pd delay-read;
#X obj 79 285 outlet~;
#X obj 305 114 \$1;
#X obj 302 23 loadbang;
#X obj 332 77 samplerate~;
#X obj 305 52 t b b;
#X obj 332 99 / 1000;
#X obj 305 153 /;
#X obj 378 183 print;
#X obj 305 189 pack 0 30;
#X obj 305 214 line~;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 4 0 9 0;
#X connect 5 0 7 0;
#X connect 6 0 8 0;
#X connect 7 0 4 0;
#X connect 7 1 6 0;
#X connect 8 0 9 1;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 11 0;
#X connect 11 0 12 0;
#X connect 12 0 2 1;
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Re: [PD] recent Pd versions on older ubuntu studio computers

[i...@hansroels.be]

great, it works, thanks !
I followed your advice of the "dh_autoreconf" package and the adapted 
debian/rules file and then I could successfully compile Pd 0.50 on both 
laptops (and on a third laptop with Linux Mint 17.3).
In case someone searches info to compile and install recent versions of 
Pd on older Ubuntu computers I summarized the whole procedure at the end 
of this email.


Can I help in some way to spread or upload compiled Pd versions for 
Ubuntu and derivatives? For sure I am not an expert in compiling 
programs, I just started trying this a week ago but maybe it can help in 
making Pd available for more people...


best, Hans

compiling Pd for Ubuntu 14 or 16 systems
First make sure these 5 packages are installed (commands in the terminal 
like "sudo apt-get install libjack-jackd2-dev" etc.):

libjack-jackd2-dev  portaudio19-dev equivs debhelper dh-autoreconf

Next execute these commands in the terminal:
1)   export LANG=C
2)   MAINREPO=https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/
3)   PDVER=0.50.2-1
4)   sudo apt-get install devscripts
5)   mkdir -p build
6)   cd build
7)   dget -u ${MAINREPO}/p/puredata/puredata_${PDVER}.dsc
8)   cd puredata-${PDVER%-*}
9)a)   echo 9 > debian/compat
b) in the build/debian folder, search for the 'control' file and in this 
file change "debhelper-compat (= 12)" into "debhelper (>= 9)"
c) in the build/debian folder , search for the 'rules' file and change 
"dh $@" into "dh $@ --with autoreconf"

10)  sudo mk-build-deps -ir
11)  dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
12) sudo dpkg -i ../*${PDVER}_*.deb
(This last command to install Pd)


On 1/16/20 1:01 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 16.01.20 12:52,i...@hansroels.be  wrote:

Next I ran the script of IOhannes line by line

export LANG=C
MAINREPO=https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/
PDVER=0.50.2-1
sudo apt-get install devscripts
mkdir -p build
cd build
dget -u ${MAINREPO}/p/puredata/puredata_${PDVER}.dsc
cd puredata-${PDVER%-*}
echo 9 > debian/compat
I changed the line "debhelper-compat (= 12)" in debian/control into
"debhelper (>= 9)"

since you are using quite old debhelper-package, you might also need to
install the "dh_autoreconf" package.

if that still doesn't work, you might also need to change the invocation
of "dh" in debian/rules to the following (indentation is  rather
than s):


%:
 dh $@ --with autoreconf


gmasdr
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] recent Pd versions on older ubuntu studio computers

[i...@hansroels.be]

(This is still about compiling Pd-vanilla on two Ubuntu Studio laptops)

I solved the dependencies by installing the following libraries -before 
running the script- on both Ubuntu 14 Trusty and Ubuntu 16 Xenial laptops:

sudo apt-get install libjack-jackd2-dev
sudo apt-get install portaudio19-dev
sudo apt-get install equivs
sudo apt-get install debhelper

Next I ran the script of IOhannes line by line

export LANG=C
MAINREPO=https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/
PDVER=0.50.2-1
sudo apt-get install devscripts
mkdir -p build
cd build
dget -u ${MAINREPO}/p/puredata/puredata_${PDVER}.dsc
cd puredata-${PDVER%-*}
echo 9 > debian/compat
I changed the line "debhelper-compat (= 12)" in debian/control into 
"debhelper (>= 9)"

sudo mk-build-deps -ir

And when I ran the following command "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" 
there was a problem on both laptops, "No targets specified and no 
makefile found." I checked and in the folder build/puredata-0.50.2 there 
is a Makefile.am file. This is the printout after the "dpkg-buildpackage 
-rfakeroot" command (exactly the same for both laptops):


-
dpkg-buildpackage: source package puredata
dpkg-buildpackage: source version 0.50.2-1
dpkg-buildpackage: source distribution unstable
dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) 


dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
 dpkg-source --before-build puredata-0.50.2
dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Rules-Requires-Root' in 
input data in general section of control info file

 fakeroot debian/rules clean
dh clean
   dh_testdir
   debian/rules override_dh_auto_clean
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
rm -f debian/gui-plugins/pd-gui-plugin.1
dh_auto_clean
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
   dh_clean
 dpkg-source -b puredata-0.50.2
dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Rules-Requires-Root' in 
input data in general section of control info file

dpkg-source: info: using source format `3.0 (quilt)'
dpkg-source: info: building puredata using existing 
./puredata_0.50.2.orig.tar.gz

dpkg-source: info: building puredata in puredata_0.50.2-1.debian.tar.gz
dpkg-source: info: building puredata in puredata_0.50.2-1.dsc
 debian/rules build
dh build
   dh_testdir
   debian/rules override_dh_auto_configure
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
dh_auto_configure -- \
        --program-transform-name='s/pd$/puredata/' \
        --libdir=/usr/lib/ \
         --enable-alsa --enable-jack --without-local-portaudio 
--without-local-portmidi \
        CFLAGS="-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 
-Wformat -Werror=format-security" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions 
-Wl,-z,relro -Wl,--as-needed"

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
   debian/rules override_dh_auto_build
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
help2man -N -n "enable or disable a Pd GUI plugin" 
debian/gui-plugins/pd-gui-plugin > debian/gui-plugins/pd-gui-plugin.1
make CPPFLAGS="-DPD_TIMESTAMP_STRING='\"compiled for Debian (0.50.2-1) 
on 2020/01/16 at 12:06:08 UTC\"' "

make[2]: Entering directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
make[2]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
make[1]: *** [override_dh_auto_build] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/hans/build/puredata-0.50.2'
make: *** [build] Error 2
dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2

best,
Hans

On 1/13/20 10:57 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 1/13/20 10:25 PM, i...@hansroels.be wrote:

dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Rules-Requires-Root' in
input data in general section of control info file

is that the xenial or the bionic host?



dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (= 12)

you might want to remove that line from debian/control and instead try
$ echo 9 > debian/compat


portaudio19-dev libjack-dev

this i don't understand.
according to https://packages.ubuntu.com/ both of these packages are
present on both xenial and bionic.
you must have the "universe" repository enabled (but afaik, this is
standard)

fasrm
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] recent Pd versions on older ubuntu studio computers

[i...@hansroels.be]

On 1/13/20 10:57 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 1/13/20 10:25 PM, i...@hansroels.be wrote:

dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Rules-Requires-Root' in
input data in general section of control info file

is that the xenial or the bionic host?

The universe repositories of both computers are enabled. I added a log 
file of the terminal. I think something already went wrong in the 
previous steps of the scripts. I hope the log files help


best, Hans


dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (= 12)

you might want to remove that line from debian/control and instead try
$ echo 9 > debian/compat


portaudio19-dev libjack-dev

this i don't understand.
according to https://packages.ubuntu.com/ both of these packages are
present on both xenial and bionic.
you must have the "universe" repository enabled (but afaik, this is
standard)

fasrm
IOhannes


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--
hans@dellxps:~$ export LANG=C
hans@dellxps:~$ MAINREPO=https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/
hans@dellxps:~$ PDVER=0.50.2-1

hans@dellxps:~$ sudo apt-get install devscripts
[sudo] password for hans: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libllvm5.0 snap-confine snapd-login-service
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
  at dctrl-tools dput libdistro-info-perl python3-magic wdiff
Suggested packages:
  default-mta | mail-transport-agent debtags bsd-mailx | mailx
  cvs-buildpackage diffoscope devscripts-el dose-extra gnuplot
  libterm-size-perl libyaml-syck-perl mozilla-devscripts mutt svn-buildpackage
  w3m debian-keyring equivs libsoap-lite-perl mini-dinstall python-bzrlib
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  at dctrl-tools devscripts dput libdistro-info-perl python3-magic wdiff
0 upgraded, 7 newly installed, 0 to remove and 7 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,016 kB of archives.
After this operation, 2,930 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
Get:1 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 at amd64 
3.1.18-2ubuntu1 [37.8 kB]
Get:2 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 dctrl-tools amd64 
2.24-2 [59.1 kB]
Get:3 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 devscripts amd64 
2.16.2ubuntu3 [848 kB]
Get:4 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 dput all 
0.9.6.4ubuntu3 [33.1 kB]
Get:5 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates/main amd64 
libdistro-info-perl all 0.14ubuntu0.1 [4,690 B]
Get:6 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 wdiff amd64 
1.2.2-1build1 [28.8 kB]
Get:7 http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates/main amd64 
python3-magic all 1:5.25-2ubuntu1.3 [5,436 B]
Fetched 1,016 kB in 0s (1,993 kB/s)  
Selecting previously unselected package at.
(Reading database ... 303189 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../at_3.1.18-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking at (3.1.18-2ubuntu1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package dctrl-tools.
Preparing to unpack .../dctrl-tools_2.24-2_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking dctrl-tools (2.24-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package devscripts.
Preparing to unpack .../devscripts_2.16.2ubuntu3_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking devscripts (2.16.2ubuntu3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package dput.
Preparing to unpack .../dput_0.9.6.4ubuntu3_all.deb ...
Unpacking dput (0.9.6.4ubuntu3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libdistro-info-perl.
Preparing to unpack .../libdistro-info-perl_0.14ubuntu0.1_all.deb ...
Unpacking libdistro-info-perl (0.14ubuntu0.1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package wdiff.
Preparing to unpack .../wdiff_1.2.2-1build1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking wdiff (1.2.2-1build1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package python3-magic.
Preparing to unpack .../python3-magic_1%3a5.25-2ubuntu1.3_all.deb ...
Unpacking python3-magic (1:5.25-2ubuntu1.3) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.5-1) ...
Processing triggers for systemd (229-4ubuntu21.23) ...
Processing triggers for ureadahead (0.100.0-19.1) ...
ureadahead will be reprofiled on next reboot
Processing triggers for install-info (6.1.0.dfsg.1-5) ...
Setting up at (3.1.18-2ubuntu1) ...
Setting up dctrl-tools (2.24-2) ...
Setting up devscripts (2.16.2ubuntu3) ...
Setting up dput (0.9.6.4ubuntu3) ...
Setting up libdistro-info-perl (0.14ubuntu0.1) ...
Setting up wdiff (1.2.2-1build1) ...
Setting up python3-magic (1:5.25-2ubuntu1.3) ...
Processing triggers for systemd (229-4ubuntu21.23) ...
Processing triggers for ureadahead (0.100.0-19.1) ...

hans@dellxps:~$ mkdir -p build

hans@dellxps:~$ cd build

hans@dellxps:~/build$ dget -u ${MAINREPO}/p/puredata/puredata_${PDVER}.dsc
dget: r

Re: [PD] recent Pd versions on older ubuntu studio computers

[i...@hansroels.be]

I tried applying your script, you can see the error further on in this 
email.


On 1/13/20 5:11 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 13.01.20 16:40, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:

Hi,

On 13/01/2020 14:13,i...@hansroels.be  wrote:

Is an installation of a /recent/ version of Pd vanilla (0.49 or 0.50)
possible on an older linux computer?

Should be possible.


I am trying to install Pd 0.50.2 on two older Ubuntu Studio laptops,
one has Ubuntu 14.04, the other Ubuntu 16.04.
When I try to install the deb package from
https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/puredata/   

Pd is atomised into many tiny debs, you'd need all of them...


I get a dependencies error, saying that I need a higher version of libc6.

The chances of random binaries from the internet working are smaller
than with Windows I guess.


Is it a solution to try compiling the Pd source code on both machines?

Yes I think so.  But it might be awkward with packaged Pd externals
(you'd need to keep the old pd around and tell the new Pd where the
externals are).

here's an old answer, slightly polished (and hopefully not introducing
to many bugs).
run each line (apart from the -tags) in your terminal:

<script>
export LANG=C
MAINREPO=<a  rel="nofollow" href="https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/">https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/</a>
PDVER=0.50.2-1
sudo apt-get install devscripts
mkdir -p build
cd build
dget -u ${MAINREPO}/p/puredata/puredata_${PDVER}.dsc
cd puredata-${PDVER%-*}
mk-build-deps -ir
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
</pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0em;">
dpkg-buildpackage: source package puredata
dpkg-buildpackage: source version 0.50.2-1
dpkg-buildpackage: source distribution unstable
</pre><tt>dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) 
</tt><tt><umlae...@debian.org>
</tt><pre style="margin: 0em;">
dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
 dpkg-source --before-build puredata-0.50.2
</pre><tt>dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Rules-Requires-Root' in 
</tt><tt>input data in general section of control info file
</tt><tt>dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (= 12) 
</tt><tt>portaudio19-dev libjack-dev
</tt><tt>dpkg-buildpackage: warning: build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; 
</tt><tt>aborting
</tt><pre style="margin: 0em;">
dpkg-buildpackage: warning: (Use -d flag to override.)
</pre><blockquote style="border-left: #EE solid 0.2em; margin: 0em; padding-left: 0.85em"><pre style="margin: 0em;">
sudo dpkg -i ../*${PDVER}_*.deb


if there are errors, read them out loud.

gfasdmr
IOhannes


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[PD] recent Pd versions on older ubuntu studio computers

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hi,

Is an installation of a /recent/ version of Pd vanilla (0.49 or 0.50) 
possible on an older linux computer? and is this somehow related to the 
libc6 versions of the operating systems?


I am trying to install Pd 0.50.2 on two older Ubuntu Studio laptops, one 
has Ubuntu 14.04, the other Ubuntu 16.04. When I try to install the deb 
package from https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/puredata/  I get 
a dependencies error, saying that I need a higher version of libc6.


Is it a solution to try compiling the Pd source code on both machines? 
or is the only solution to upgrade the whole Ubuntu Studio version? 
(...which isn't possible on one of these machines).


Hans

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[PD] web broadcast latency

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hello,

I want to broadcast a live audio stream from a performance in a library: 
two musicians are playing on controllers + Pd patch. There is no 
acoustic sound, people visiting the library can just watch the silent 
performance. If these visitors want to listen, they can go to a website 
and listen through the media player on their smart phone or laptop. I 
want the latency to be less than 1 second (or better: less than 500ms) 
to ensure that the audience can experience a relation between the sound 
(from the webstream) and the visual performance.


Does anyone have experience with this kind of setup and is it possible 
to have such a low latency through a web broadcast? (or do I have to 
look for another solution, perhaps FM sender?) In older posts of this 
mailing list people were talking about latencies from 1 to 10 seconds.


Which external shall I use to send the sound in Pd to Icecast? I guess  
oggcast~  or mp3cast~ , or is there a better solution (= lower 
latencies) outside Pd?


best,

Hans Roels

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[PD] fluid~ generator attack time

[i...@hansroels.be]

Hello,

This is a simple question about the fluid~ external. According to the 
documentation on this site 
http://www.pjb.com.au/midi/sfspec21.html#8.1.1 I should send values to 
generator 34 to change the attack time of the amplitude envelope, for 
example a message with value 0 should result in an attack time of 1 second:


[gen 1 34 0(

But this doesn't produce any change in the attack. (other generators, 
for example 52 -fine tuning-, work well). Am I misunderstanding 
something about soundfonts and generators?


I am using Pd-l2ork version 2.0 (20170207-rev.a243cb3) on Linux mint, I 
am using these sf2 soundfonts : Timbres Of Heaven GM_GS_XG_SFX V 3.4 
Final  and GeneralUser GS SoftSynth v1.44


best, Hans
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