Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Am 14. März 2024 19:15:06 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres : >input would eventually work. So I understand the idea of not reinforcing >this all the time and for every case, but there are some examples in the >help patch that can benefit from this and it wouldn't pollute too much, in >fact, it's already happening. > Sounds good. I'm not opposed to improving the help in general :-) mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Em qui., 14 de mar. de 2024 às 14:20, Peter P.
escreveu:
> From: Miller Puckette
> Perhaps the ones that manage lists specially
> should be flagged as not distributing lists among inlets.
>
that is indeed the case, [spigot] for instance passes lists and 'anythings'.
I opened an issue here https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/187 and
MIller also replied and I quote and bring it back to this thread "*line and
line~ (and I think vline~) also do non-standard list distribution - the
ramp-time inlet resets to zero after each segment is started. That's why
list-input behavior needs to be described explicitly. "Normal" objects
like makenote don't reset inlets. BUT I guess it's still true that sending
a list to line, etc., is still equivalent to distributing the values over
the inlets, in the same way as for all the normal objects. The
not-quite-standardness is in the way the middle inlet itself acts.*"
The special 'clearing' behaviour of inlets in the line family is well
explained in the help file and I see it as totally equivalent to other
cases where lists are spread over inlets.
Em qui., 14 de mar. de 2024 às 14:17, IOhannes m zmölnig
escreveu:
> i'm still very reluctant about adding the same and the same information
> to every object that just exhibits standard behaviour, as this quickly
> becomes noise. ("hey, did you know that you can connect this object to
> [print]?")
>
I don't mean to add this to *all*, and in some cases would be rather silly,
like [float]. And now I remembered of another object that "abuses" this
behaviour in the help files, [stripnote], but not all too explicitly, Maybe
there's one or another more...
I use this for math objects usually, for instance. And in fact, not by
chance I guess, a math object was used to show this behaviour in
(04.messages.pd). This can save someone from using [unpack] sometimes. I
feel this is little known and people miss it or get confused.
I've also seen this occasionally "abused" in the help files of MAX; take
[offer] for instance, and this is also true for [cyclone/offer]'s help
file.
I also wanted to add an abstraction loaded under the [pd reference]
subpatches that would be a 'guide' to better understand things as described
in my reference subpacthes. My idea was to also reinforce this behaviour,
because I consciously chose not to put into the references that 'list'
input would eventually work. So I understand the idea of not reinforcing
this all the time and for every case, but there are some examples in the
help patch that can benefit from this and it wouldn't pollute too much, in
fact, it's already happening.
cheers
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Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Is there enough information available to the core, that could show in the GUI if the default list distribution method applies to a given (instance of) an object? Can function pointers be compared for equality in C? I'm thinking something like an underlined first inlet if the automatic list distribution applies (or the reverse), but of course other options are available, like tooltips or context menu etc On 14/03/2024 17:19, Peter P. wrote: Hi, here is a reply from Miller that might have bypassed the list. Peter - Forwarded message from Miller Puckette - From: Miller Puckette To: "Peter P." Subject: Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:41:48 -0400 Certain objects (like spigot or list) don't work this way. I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule. Perhaps the ones that manage lists specially should be flagged as not distributing lists among inlets. cheers Miller On 3/14/24 17:36, Peter P. wrote: * Roman Haefeli [2024-03-14 15:57]: On Thu, 2024-03-14 at 15:34 +0100, Peter P. wrote: the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for granted along all message-objects? Yes, this my understanding. When list messages are received on the left-most inlet, the atoms are spread over the inlets. [9 7( | [- ] | [2 \ Thanks Roman! I knew about this with the simple math objects, but can someone confirm that it does work for all objects? Best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!DFAG-I-NncR_429ZtocLYUcfGCbzFdvV2uBIfWChVZ2mSnNd_6ePLJj_C19LwesUVmbwll-IufIzVSxXFVE$ - End forwarded message - ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Hi, here is a reply from Miller that might have bypassed the list. Peter - Forwarded message from Miller Puckette - From: Miller Puckette To: "Peter P." Subject: Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:41:48 -0400 Certain objects (like spigot or list) don't work this way. I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule. Perhaps the ones that manage lists specially should be flagged as not distributing lists among inlets. cheers Miller On 3/14/24 17:36, Peter P. wrote: > * Roman Haefeli [2024-03-14 15:57]: > > On Thu, 2024-03-14 at 15:34 +0100, Peter P. wrote: > > > the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a > > > list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for > > > granted along all message-objects? > > > > > Yes, this my understanding. When list messages are received on the > > left-most inlet, the atoms are spread over the inlets. > > > > [9 7( > > | > > [- ] > > | > > [2 \ > Thanks Roman! > I knew about this with the simple math objects, but can someone confirm > that it does work for all objects? > > Best, P > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!DFAG-I-NncR_429ZtocLYUcfGCbzFdvV2uBIfWChVZ2mSnNd_6ePLJj_C19LwesUVmbwll-IufIzVSxXFVE$ - End forwarded message - ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
On 3/14/24 17:57, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Em qui., 14 de mar. de 2024 às 11:36, Peter P.
escreveu:
is this behavior taken for granted along all message-objects?
yes, this is mentioned in the documentation, in the manual, and in the
control tutorial (see example 04.messages.pd)
which is good.
Sometimes this is exposed in the help files, as with [line~], but not every
time. I guess there are more examples where this can get exposed and
reinforced. Math objects, [expr], [makenote].
i'm still very reluctant about adding the same and the same information
to every object that just exhibits standard behaviour, as this quickly
becomes noise. ("hey, did you know that you can connect this object to
[print]?")
i think it makes sense in objects like [line~] where we typically see
uses like "[0, 1 1000(".
it probably makes also sense to document that [list prepend] will
actually *not* distribute the elements to its inlets.
gfmdsar
IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Em qui., 14 de mar. de 2024 às 11:36, Peter P. escreveu: > is this behavior taken for granted along all message-objects? > yes, this is mentioned in the documentation, in the manual, and in the control tutorial (see example 04.messages.pd) Sometimes this is exposed in the help files, as with [line~], but not every time. I guess there are more examples where this can get exposed and reinforced. Math objects, [expr], [makenote]. I'm opening a ticket in pddp cheers ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
The default list method distributes the elements over all inlets. However, some objects define a custom list method! See [list], [array set], [send], etc. Christof On 14.03.2024 17:36, Peter P. wrote: * Roman Haefeli [2024-03-14 15:57]: On Thu, 2024-03-14 at 15:34 +0100, Peter P. wrote: the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for granted along all message-objects? Yes, this my understanding. When list messages are received on the left-most inlet, the atoms are spread over the inlets. [9 7( | [- ] | [2 \ Thanks Roman! I knew about this with the simple math objects, but can someone confirm that it does work for all objects? Best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
* Roman Haefeli [2024-03-14 15:57]: > > On Thu, 2024-03-14 at 15:34 +0100, Peter P. wrote: > > > > the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a > > list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for > > granted along all message-objects? > > > > Yes, this my understanding. When list messages are received on the > left-most inlet, the atoms are spread over the inlets. > > [9 7( > | > [- ] > | > [2 \ Thanks Roman! I knew about this with the simple math objects, but can someone confirm that it does work for all objects? Best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
On Thu, 2024-03-14 at 15:34 +0100, Peter P. wrote: > > the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a > list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for > granted along all message-objects? > Yes, this my understanding. When list messages are received on the left-most inlet, the atoms are spread over the inlets. [9 7( | [- ] | [2 \ Roman signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Add to documentation: makenote accepts lists in its leftmost inlet
Hi list, the help patch for [makenote] could mention that the object accepts a list in its leftmost inlet as well, or is this behavior taken for granted along all message-objects? thanks! P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
