Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 5/29/20 6:57 PM, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> Hmm - this (PR 838) should be merged in master and incorporated in the
> 0.51-0test1 build - if it isn't I need to go back and try again.

it looks pretty merged to me.

fgmafds
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hmm - this (PR 838) should be merged in master and incorporated in the
0.51-0test1 build - if it isn't I need to go back and try again.


thanks
Miller

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 12:35:45PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Y'all: I fixed this months go, it's just not in the current builds (but now 
> in the current master):
> 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gBJjt3JU$
>   
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gBJjt3JU$
>  >
> 
> Someone sent an email to pd-dev about it, I fixed it, and they tested the 
> fix. If you want to test on Catalina, try the "Pd-0.52-2-signed.zip" on 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gLMFcAPx$
>   
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gLMFcAPx$
>  >
> 
> Also, everyone please stop the constant FUD about forced upgrades. We get it, 
> you use the OS you prefer and I will use the one I prefer.
> 
> > On May 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:34:21 +0200
> > From: "hans w. koch" mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>>
> > To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? +
> > Other annoyances.
> > Message-ID: <2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
> > 
> > (had replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by mistake.)
> > 
> > that annoying behaviour is called notarization and should protect the 
> > galaxy from evil bananas.
> > the delay could be caused by the notarization process checking against an 
> > internal database of good actors and in case there is no entry trying to do 
> > so online.
> > i??ve heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem integrity 
> > protection), but i am on mojave, which is slightly less annoying.
> > 
> > in addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check if that 
> > assumption about notarization is true, there is some info here:
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gH7ottHq$
> >   
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gH7ottHq$
> >  >
> > so the test would be to measure with and without that stuff???but thats 
> > certainly not a generally recommandable case.
> > 
> > best
> > hans
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gAvYBDv-$
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gHE0Q0NN$
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!UQwdIzVSKzWPtymTfwjr43dh2Qci2fKxBeJFDwZUtWa9YftFdGy0gIj-hN7f$
>  >
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sex., 29 de mai. de 2020 às 13:05, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> If you have an Apple Developer account, you can download old versions of
> Xcode
>

that's a great tip, thanks, but I don't have and wouldn't like to pay for
that
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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sex., 29 de mai. de 2020 às 07:35, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> Y'all: I fixed this months go, it's just not in the current builds (but
> now in the current master):
>
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838
>

just let me get it straight, so it's still not working in the build for
0.50-1-test1 but it's gonna be alright when the final release is out? I
trust you have a working build, but I'm just worried that the future
official downloads will be fine.

Em sex., 29 de mai. de 2020 às 09:06, Christof Ressi 
escreveu:

> I don't really see how Windows or macOS force anyone to upgrade the OS.
>
My macOS example. I formatted and tested Catalina, cool, went back to
Mojave, which is screwed up as you need to find a torrent download from
pirate bay for that but ok... then I tried to install XCode in Mojave, and
"app store" then tells me I need to upgrade to Catalina in order to
download XCode, cause it can't be downloaded to Mojave.

I need XCode to compile Pd and my externals, I was forced to upgrade to
Catalina... and I cried...

I might find a way to get a torrent from pirate bay maybe that allows me to
install XCode in mojave? I dunno...

> Software improves and new software builds on top on that. That's just how
it works.

It takes a while though, and the current problems with Pd and Catalina are
really bumming me out. Also, I sometimes open Pd Extended to test something
from old days... and Catalina finally put a nail to that coffin.

> Are *we* forcing people to upgrade to the latest Pd version because we
don't backport features and bugfixes to Pd 0.34?

I always "force push" people to install the very latest Pd Vanilla quite
immediately for my patches, tutorials and externals, but I hope this is not
frowned upon in this list :)

cheers
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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Dan Wilcox]

If you have an Apple Developer account, you can download old versions of Xcode 
back to 3.0 or so. You have to login to the developer site and find the 
Downloads section.

> On May 29, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> 
> I need XCode to compile Pd and my externals, I was forced to upgrade to 
> Catalina... and I cried...
> 
> I might find a way to get a torrent from pirate bay maybe that allows me to 
> install XCode in mojave? I dunno...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Christof Ressi]

Also, everyone please stop the constant FUD about forced upgrades.

+1



I don't really see how Windows or macOS force anyone to upgrade the OS. 
You can still use your favourite 20 year OS, just don't expect to get 
security updates or run recent software.


Are *we* forcing people to upgrade to the latest Pd version because we 
don't backport features and bugfixes to Pd 0.34?


Software improves and new software builds on top on that. That's just 
how it works.


Now, backwards compatibility is a whole different story. Breaking 
changes or feature removal might indeed force users to upgrade their 
software. Actually, Windows and macOS differ a lot in this regard. I 
kind of understand both sides, but I have my personal preference ;-)




Christof

On 29.05.2020 12:35, Dan Wilcox wrote:
Y'all: I fixed this months go, it's just not in the current builds 
(but now in the current master):


https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838

Someone sent an email to pd-dev about it, I fixed it, and they tested 
the fix. If you want to test on Catalina, try the 
"Pd-0.52-2-signed.zip" on http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/


Also, everyone please stop the constant FUD about forced upgrades. We 
get it, you use the OS you prefer and I will use the one I prefer.


On May 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:


Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:34:21 +0200
From: "hans w. koch" mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>>
To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
Subject: Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? +
Other annoyances.
Message-ID: <2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com 
<mailto:2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8

(had replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by mistake.)

that annoying behaviour is called notarization and should protect the 
galaxy from evil bananas.
the delay could be caused by the notarization process checking 
against an internal database of good actors and in case there is no 
entry trying to do so online.
i´ve heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem integrity 
protection), but i am on mojave, which is slightly less annoying.


in addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check if that 
assumption about notarization is true, there is some info here:

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896
so the test would be to measure with and without that stuff…but thats 
certainly not a generally recommandable case.


best
hans



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com>




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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Dan Wilcox]

Y'all: I fixed this months go, it's just not in the current builds (but now in 
the current master):

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838>

Someone sent an email to pd-dev about it, I fixed it, and they tested the fix. 
If you want to test on Catalina, try the "Pd-0.52-2-signed.zip" on 
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/ 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/>

Also, everyone please stop the constant FUD about forced upgrades. We get it, 
you use the OS you prefer and I will use the one I prefer.

> On May 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:34:21 +0200
> From: "hans w. koch" mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? +
>   Other annoyances.
> Message-ID: <2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:2778dcc4-504e-4afa-afec-93d3f6068...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> (had replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by mistake.)
> 
> that annoying behaviour is called notarization and should protect the galaxy 
> from evil bananas.
> the delay could be caused by the notarization process checking against an 
> internal database of good actors and in case there is no entry trying to do 
> so online.
> i´ve heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem integrity 
> protection), but i am on mojave, which is slightly less annoying.
> 
> in addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check if that 
> assumption about notarization is true, there is some info here:
> https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896 
> <https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896>
> so the test would be to measure with and without that stuff…but thats 
> certainly not a generally recommandable case.
> 
> best
> hans


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[hans w. koch]

(had replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by mistake.)

that annoying behaviour is called notarization and should protect the galaxy 
from evil bananas.
the delay could be caused by the notarization process checking against an 
internal database of good actors and in case there is no entry trying to do so 
online.
i´ve heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem integrity 
protection), but i am on mojave, which is slightly less annoying.

in addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check if that assumption 
about notarization is true, there is some info here:
https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896
so the test would be to measure with and without that stuff…but thats certainly 
not a generally recommandable case.

best
hans

> Am 29.05.2020 um 10:42 schrieb Christof Ressi :
> 
> 
>> Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just something stupid that macOS now does 
>> for ALL applications. 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/12/23/apple-will-enforce-app-notarization-for-macos-catalina-in-february
> 
> Welcome to macOS Catalina :-)
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 29.05.2020 03:16, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> Hey macOS/Catalina people (do we have any here?), I formatted my computer 
>> and decided to install Catalina just to test things and now I can't go back. 
>> I was forced to stay in the latest release because I can't install XCode 
>> from app store in the previous OS, it has to be Catalina... Miller is right 
>> to hate mac and windows force pushing upgrades <3 - I might still try to go 
>> back and install XCode somehow cause I'm starting to hate a few things - 
>> enough ranting!
>> 
>> Anyway, I already opened an issue that seems to affect Catalina - 
>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/988 - but for that tcl/tk 
>> might be the one to hate for. As long as we're at it, do other Catalina 
>> users have the same issue there?
>> 
>> Now for the actual subject of the email. I'm finding that externals in 
>> Catalina are taking too long to load. Anyone else feels that? It's kind of 
>> intermittent. Sometimes it does that, sometimes not... it's happening for me 
>> in Pd 0.50-2 and the new 0.51-0-test1 as well.
>> 
>> As for yet another annoyance, Catalina will now say it can't open Pd right 
>> out of the box when you download, and it'll even ask you if you want to 
>> delete. It does this even if you right click and ask to open it. Previously, 
>> you had to right click and ask to open so it would give you an option "do 
>> you really want to open this?". Now it just says something like 
>> 
>> "“Pd-0.50-2” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified.
>> 
>> macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
>> 
>> Chrome downloaded this file today at 22:05 from msp.ucsd.edu." 
>> 
>> It's only when you say cancel and try that for a SECOND time is that if 
>> offers you the possibility to open if you really really want it and changes 
>> the warning to macOS cannot verify the developer of “Pd-0.50-2”. Are you 
>> sure you want to open it?. Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just something 
>> stupid that macOS now does for ALL applications. 
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Christof Ressi]

Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just something stupid that macOS now 
does for ALL applications. 

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/12/23/apple-will-enforce-app-notarization-for-macos-catalina-in-february

Welcome to macOS Catalina :-)

Christof

On 29.05.2020 03:16, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Hey macOS/Catalina people (do we have any here?), I formatted my 
computer and decided to install Catalina just to test things and now I 
can't go back. I was forced to stay in the latest release because I 
can't install XCode from app store in the previous OS, it has to be 
Catalina... Miller is right to hate mac and windows force pushing 
upgrades <3 - I might still try to go back and install XCode somehow 
cause I'm starting to hate a few things - enough ranting!


Anyway, I already opened an issue that seems to affect Catalina - 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/988 - but for that 
tcl/tk might be the one to hate for. As long as we're at it, do other 
Catalina users have the same issue there?


*Now for the actual subject of the email. I'm finding that externals 
in Catalina are taking too long to load. Anyone else feels that? It's 
kind of intermittent. Sometimes it does that, sometimes not... it's 
happening for me in Pd 0.50-2 and the new 0.51-0-test1 as well.*

*
*
As for yet another annoyance, Catalina will now say it can't open Pd 
right out of the box when you download, and it'll even ask you if you 
want to delete. It does this even if you right click and ask to open 
it. Previously, you had to right click and ask to open so it would 
give you an option "do you really want to open this?". Now it just 
says something like


"“Pd-0.50-2” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified.

macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.


Chrome downloaded this file today at 22:05 from msp.ucsd.edu 
."


It's only when you say cancel and try that for a SECOND time is that 
if offers you the possibility to open if you really really want it and 
changes the warning to *macOS cannot verify the developer of 
“Pd-0.50-2”. Are you sure you want to open it?*. Not sure if this is a 
Pd thing or just something stupid that macOS now does for ALL 
applications.


cheers

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[PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Hey macOS/Catalina people (do we have any here?), I formatted my computer
and decided to install Catalina just to test things and now I can't go
back. I was forced to stay in the latest release because I can't install
XCode from app store in the previous OS, it has to be Catalina... Miller is
right to hate mac and windows force pushing upgrades <3 - I might still try
to go back and install XCode somehow cause I'm starting to hate a few
things - enough ranting!

Anyway, I already opened an issue that seems to affect Catalina -
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/988 - but for that tcl/tk
might be the one to hate for. As long as we're at it, do other Catalina
users have the same issue there?

*Now for the actual subject of the email. I'm finding that externals in
Catalina are taking too long to load. Anyone else feels that? It's kind of
intermittent. Sometimes it does that, sometimes not... it's happening for
me in Pd 0.50-2 and the new 0.51-0-test1 as well.*

As for yet another annoyance, Catalina will now say it can't open Pd right
out of the box when you download, and it'll even ask you if you want to
delete. It does this even if you right click and ask to open it.
Previously, you had to right click and ask to open so it would give you an
option "do you really want to open this?". Now it just says something like

"“Pd-0.50-2” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified.

macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.


Chrome downloaded this file today at 22:05 from msp.ucsd.edu."

It's only when you say cancel and try that for a SECOND time is that if
offers you the possibility to open if you really really want it and changes
the warning to *macOS cannot verify the developer of “Pd-0.50-2”. Are you
sure you want to open it?*. Not sure if this is a Pd thing or just
something stupid that macOS now does for ALL applications.

cheers
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