Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

'?'
I was whooping too quickly previously.

'I'm pretty sure you did use the latest and greatest deken as
downloadable from [1] rather than the one bundled with Pd, did you?'

Erm, yes
(cough) no.

Ok, will report back


On 10 April 2017 at 22:41, IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

> On 04/08/2017 12:45 AM, Julian Brooks wrote:
> > Apologies IOhannes
>
> ?
>
> > I was a little hasty with my celebrations.
>
> i'm pretty sure you did use the latest and greatest deken as
> downloadable from [1] rather than the one bundled with Pd, did you?
>
> gfmards
> IOhannes
>
> [1] https://github.com/pure-data/deken
>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/
> listinfo/pd-list
>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 04/08/2017 12:45 AM, Julian Brooks wrote:
> Apologies IOhannes

?

> I was a little hasty with my celebrations.

i'm pretty sure you did use the latest and greatest deken as
downloadable from [1] rather than the one bundled with Pd, did you?

gfmards
IOhannes

[1] https://github.com/pure-data/deken



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Just for clarification.

I made a /home/julian/.local/lib/pd/extra/ directory, clicked on a lib via
deken, dl'd it, and all works lovely
(apart from having libs scattered across my computer:)

Julian

On 7 April 2017 at 23:45, Julian Brooks  wrote:

> Apologies IOhannes, I was a little hasty with my celebrations.
>
> After installing the pd-deken packages I still get this from Pd when
> attempting to install a lib:
> "No writeable directory found in:
> - /home/julian/.local/lib/pd/extra/
> - /home/julian/pd-externals
> - /usr/local/lib/pd-externals
> - /usr/lib/puredata/extra
> - /usr/lib/pd/extra
> Cannot download/install libraries!"
>
> Pd-0.47.1 ("") compiled for Debian (0.47.1-3)
> Debian Sid (up to date)
>
> Hi Alexandre, well for me the folders already created (/usr/lib/pd/extra)
> by the Debian Pd install, it's getting the libs in there that's the current
> issue.
> But yes, which folder that should definitively be is still also up for
> debate I guess.
>
> Julian
>
>
>
> On 7 April 2017 at 17:13, Alexandre Torres Porres 
> wrote:
>
>> > Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon
>>
>> maybe for linux? how is it? you cant write externals in the application
>> specific folder so it'll offer that one and write it?
>>
>> since you can write externals in the application specific folder in mac,
>> it won't offer it, and maybe that could happen in some linux
>> distribution/set up?
>>
>> things would really be sorted if the folders were just created once and
>> for all...
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> 2017-04-07 7:08 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks :
>>
>>> Hi Roman,
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'd spotted the
>>> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra
>>> as being canonical from an earlier thread but as 1. I didn't already
>>> have that folder 2. historically (dangerous I know) the non-hidden path had
>>> always been 'the place' for externals, so I just blithely carried on
>>> regardless - ouch(blush).
>>>
>>> All below meant with the utmost respect for the work currently being
>>> done...
>>>
>>> Doesn't this just cause more issues? While I can conceptualise the
>>> reasoning for differing usr/lib/puredata (vanilla install) and usr/lib/pd
>>> folders - it is another added layer of confusion for newbs (not meant as a
>>> pejorative).
>>> Obfuscating externals in hidden folders seems unnecessary (and yes, I'm
>>> aware I brought 'canonical' into it /.worms/can of/argh).
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
>>> certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
>>> the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
>>> of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/).
>>> So for me I'd vote for consistency, not one folder with externals via
>>> apt and another via deken (as well as the vanilla 'extra') - it's too
>>> confusing.
>>>
>>> Of course I'm not necessarily saying that there should only be a 'one
>>> approach fits all' for all linux flavours (that's not how we roll) but then
>>> again it might save lots of people lots of headaches if it was simple,
>>> doable and clear across the board (I'm not including Win and Mac here
>>> obviously - they've got their own issues). Well, actually having reread
>>> that line _-_ ok, I guess that is what I'm saying then - "one method to
>>> rule them all".
>>> Certainly for writing documentation this would make things so much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon but for those of us
>>> stuck in an eternal 'now' we could do with a solution, or at least a
>>> consistent conceptual approach:)
>>>
>>> Andy - mooove along please (and yes, I've just added it to my
>>> .bashrc:D
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>> On 7 April 2017 at 10:03, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>>>
 On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
 >
 >
 > Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
 > within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
 > I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
 > description - how are others doing it?

 On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
 ~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
 the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
 There is no need to copy things around.

 NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
 upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
 that folder if you chose so.

 Roman
 ___
 Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
 UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
 stinfo/pd-list


>>>
>>> ___
>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Apologies IOhannes, I was a little hasty with my celebrations.

After installing the pd-deken packages I still get this from Pd when
attempting to install a lib:
"No writeable directory found in:
- /home/julian/.local/lib/pd/extra/
- /home/julian/pd-externals
- /usr/local/lib/pd-externals
- /usr/lib/puredata/extra
- /usr/lib/pd/extra
Cannot download/install libraries!"

Pd-0.47.1 ("") compiled for Debian (0.47.1-3)
Debian Sid (up to date)

Hi Alexandre, well for me the folders already created (/usr/lib/pd/extra)
by the Debian Pd install, it's getting the libs in there that's the current
issue.
But yes, which folder that should definitively be is still also up for
debate I guess.

Julian



On 7 April 2017 at 17:13, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:

> > Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon
>
> maybe for linux? how is it? you cant write externals in the application
> specific folder so it'll offer that one and write it?
>
> since you can write externals in the application specific folder in mac,
> it won't offer it, and maybe that could happen in some linux
> distribution/set up?
>
> things would really be sorted if the folders were just created once and
> for all...
>
> cheers
>
> 2017-04-07 7:08 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks :
>
>> Hi Roman,
>>
>> Yeah, I'd spotted the
>> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra
>> as being canonical from an earlier thread but as 1. I didn't already have
>> that folder 2. historically (dangerous I know) the non-hidden path had
>> always been 'the place' for externals, so I just blithely carried on
>> regardless - ouch(blush).
>>
>> All below meant with the utmost respect for the work currently being
>> done...
>>
>> Doesn't this just cause more issues? While I can conceptualise the
>> reasoning for differing usr/lib/puredata (vanilla install) and usr/lib/pd
>> folders - it is another added layer of confusion for newbs (not meant as a
>> pejorative).
>> Obfuscating externals in hidden folders seems unnecessary (and yes, I'm
>> aware I brought 'canonical' into it /.worms/can of/argh).
>>
>> I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
>> certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
>> the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
>> of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/).
>> So for me I'd vote for consistency, not one folder with externals via apt
>> and another via deken (as well as the vanilla 'extra') - it's too confusing.
>>
>> Of course I'm not necessarily saying that there should only be a 'one
>> approach fits all' for all linux flavours (that's not how we roll) but then
>> again it might save lots of people lots of headaches if it was simple,
>> doable and clear across the board (I'm not including Win and Mac here
>> obviously - they've got their own issues). Well, actually having reread
>> that line _-_ ok, I guess that is what I'm saying then - "one method to
>> rule them all".
>> Certainly for writing documentation this would make things so much easier.
>>
>> Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon but for those of us
>> stuck in an eternal 'now' we could do with a solution, or at least a
>> consistent conceptual approach:)
>>
>> Andy - mooove along please (and yes, I've just added it to my
>> .bashrc:D
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> On 7 April 2017 at 10:03, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>>
>>> On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
>>> > within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
>>> > I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
>>> > description - how are others doing it?
>>>
>>> On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
>>> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
>>> the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
>>> There is no need to copy things around.
>>>
>>> NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
>>> upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
>>> that folder if you chose so.
>>>
>>> Roman
>>> ___
>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
>>> stinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
>> stinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon

maybe for linux? how is it? you cant write externals in the application
specific folder so it'll offer that one and write it?

since you can write externals in the application specific folder in mac, it
won't offer it, and maybe that could happen in some linux distribution/set
up?

things would really be sorted if the folders were just created once and for
all...

cheers

2017-04-07 7:08 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks :

> Hi Roman,
>
> Yeah, I'd spotted the
> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra
> as being canonical from an earlier thread but as 1. I didn't already have
> that folder 2. historically (dangerous I know) the non-hidden path had
> always been 'the place' for externals, so I just blithely carried on
> regardless - ouch(blush).
>
> All below meant with the utmost respect for the work currently being
> done...
>
> Doesn't this just cause more issues? While I can conceptualise the
> reasoning for differing usr/lib/puredata (vanilla install) and usr/lib/pd
> folders - it is another added layer of confusion for newbs (not meant as a
> pejorative).
> Obfuscating externals in hidden folders seems unnecessary (and yes, I'm
> aware I brought 'canonical' into it /.worms/can of/argh).
>
> I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
> certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
> the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
> of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/).
> So for me I'd vote for consistency, not one folder with externals via apt
> and another via deken (as well as the vanilla 'extra') - it's too confusing.
>
> Of course I'm not necessarily saying that there should only be a 'one
> approach fits all' for all linux flavours (that's not how we roll) but then
> again it might save lots of people lots of headaches if it was simple,
> doable and clear across the board (I'm not including Win and Mac here
> obviously - they've got their own issues). Well, actually having reread
> that line _-_ ok, I guess that is what I'm saying then - "one method to
> rule them all".
> Certainly for writing documentation this would make things so much easier.
>
> Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon but for those of us stuck
> in an eternal 'now' we could do with a solution, or at least a consistent
> conceptual approach:)
>
> Andy - mooove along please (and yes, I've just added it to my .bashrc:D
>
> Regards,
>
> Julian
>
> On 7 April 2017 at 10:03, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>
>> On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
>> > within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
>> > I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
>> > description - how are others doing it?
>>
>> On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
>> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
>> the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
>> There is no need to copy things around.
>>
>> NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
>> upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
>> that folder if you chose so.
>>
>> Roman
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
>> stinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/
> listinfo/pd-list
>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Oups sorry:
"I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/)."
is obviously incorrect, I was thinking it takes me to my /home folder not
/home/julian where yes there are lots of hidden folders.

Apologies (lost in my little rant).
Otherwise the rest stands...

On 7 April 2017 at 11:08, Julian Brooks  wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> Yeah, I'd spotted the
> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra
> as being canonical from an earlier thread but as 1. I didn't already have
> that folder 2. historically (dangerous I know) the non-hidden path had
> always been 'the place' for externals, so I just blithely carried on
> regardless - ouch(blush).
>
> All below meant with the utmost respect for the work currently being
> done...
>
> Doesn't this just cause more issues? While I can conceptualise the
> reasoning for differing usr/lib/puredata (vanilla install) and usr/lib/pd
> folders - it is another added layer of confusion for newbs (not meant as a
> pejorative).
> Obfuscating externals in hidden folders seems unnecessary (and yes, I'm
> aware I brought 'canonical' into it /.worms/can of/argh).
>
> I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
> certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
> the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
> of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/).
> So for me I'd vote for consistency, not one folder with externals via apt
> and another via deken (as well as the vanilla 'extra') - it's too confusing.
>
> Of course I'm not necessarily saying that there should only be a 'one
> approach fits all' for all linux flavours (that's not how we roll) but then
> again it might save lots of people lots of headaches if it was simple,
> doable and clear across the board (I'm not including Win and Mac here
> obviously - they've got their own issues). Well, actually having reread
> that line _-_ ok, I guess that is what I'm saying then - "one method to
> rule them all".
> Certainly for writing documentation this would make things so much easier.
>
> Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon but for those of us stuck
> in an eternal 'now' we could do with a solution, or at least a consistent
> conceptual approach:)
>
> Andy - mooove along please (and yes, I've just added it to my .bashrc:D
>
> Regards,
>
> Julian
>
> On 7 April 2017 at 10:03, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>
>> On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
>> > within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
>> > I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
>> > description - how are others doing it?
>>
>> On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
>> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
>> the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
>> There is no need to copy things around.
>>
>> NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
>> upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
>> that folder if you chose so.
>>
>> Roman
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
>> stinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Hi Roman,

Yeah, I'd spotted the
~/.local/lib/pd/extra
as being canonical from an earlier thread but as 1. I didn't already have
that folder 2. historically (dangerous I know) the non-hidden path had
always been 'the place' for externals, so I just blithely carried on
regardless - ouch(blush).

All below meant with the utmost respect for the work currently being done...

Doesn't this just cause more issues? While I can conceptualise the
reasoning for differing usr/lib/puredata (vanilla install) and usr/lib/pd
folders - it is another added layer of confusion for newbs (not meant as a
pejorative).
Obfuscating externals in hidden folders seems unnecessary (and yes, I'm
aware I brought 'canonical' into it /.worms/can of/argh).

I'm not familiar enough with other linux flavours to know this but
certainly on debian I have no other ~/.folders on my system, even though
the non-hidden path already exists via the apt install (and there's a ton
of other programs' 'stuff' in /usr/lib/).
So for me I'd vote for consistency, not one folder with externals via apt
and another via deken (as well as the vanilla 'extra') - it's too confusing.

Of course I'm not necessarily saying that there should only be a 'one
approach fits all' for all linux flavours (that's not how we roll) but then
again it might save lots of people lots of headaches if it was simple,
doable and clear across the board (I'm not including Win and Mac here
obviously - they've got their own issues). Well, actually having reread
that line _-_ ok, I guess that is what I'm saying then - "one method to
rule them all".
Certainly for writing documentation this would make things so much easier.

Brilliant that deken can sort all this very soon but for those of us stuck
in an eternal 'now' we could do with a solution, or at least a consistent
conceptual approach:)

Andy - mooove along please (and yes, I've just added it to my .bashrc:D

Regards,

Julian

On 7 April 2017 at 10:03, Roman Haefeli  wrote:

> On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
> >
> >
> > Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
> > within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
> > I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
> > description - how are others doing it?
>
> On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
> ~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
> the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
> There is no need to copy things around.
>
> NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
> upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
> that folder if you chose so.
>
> Roman
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/
> listinfo/pd-list
>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Roman Haefeli]

On Don, 2017-04-06 at 21:12 +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
> 
> 
> Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
> within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but
> I'm lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex
> description - how are others doing it?

On Linux, the "correct" path (a.k.a the user specific search path) is
~/.local/lib/pd/extra. Just use Deken to download there directly. If
the folder already exists, Deken will suggest it as the first option.
There is no need to copy things around.

NOTE: You still have to create that directory manually. However,
upcoming versions of Pd will include a Deken that automatically creates
that folder if you chose so.

Roman

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Andy Farnell]

On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 11:57:25PM +0200, zmoel...@iem.at wrote:

> (but of course you need supercow powers to use them)
> 
> gfasdmr
> IOhannes

Brighten up a common annoying typo by adding this
to your .bashrc

apt-vache() { apt-cache $@ | cowsay; }

$ apt-vache search xclock

 _
/ rxvt - VT102 terminal emulator for the  \
| X Window System x11-apps - X|
\ applications xarclock - reversed xclock /
 -
\   ^__^
 \  (oo)\___
(__)\   )\/\
||w |
|| ||

a.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[zmoelnig]

On 04/06/2017 10:12 PM, Julian Brooks wrote:
> What's the canonical/most-favoured approach here for Debian (Linux in
> general I suppose).

# apt-get install pd-deken-apt

this will add apt powers to deken (but of course you need supercow
powers to use them)

gfasdmr
IOhannes



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Hi all,

Just to add a little more noise to the ongoing debate...

What's the canonical/most-favoured approach here for Debian (Linux in
general I suppose).

I want my externals in usr/lib/pd/extra but installing via Deken I don't
have permission to install there - tbh so far, I've just installed via
apt-get (thank you IOhannes, the repo's are so blindingly good and the path
is sorted) but I'm sure this situation will come up for others (and for me
imminently).

Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but I'm
lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex description - how
are others doing it?

Big props to all the devs and contributors for Deken btw, this is so much
better than it's ever been before.

Regards,

Julian
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list