Re: [PD] olimex board
On 06/04/2015 10:24 PM, katja wrote: There's also a way to build Jessie's Pd on Wheezy, described by IOhannes on pd list. btw, that way also works to build any external that is packaged for Debian (and many are, thanks to hans) fgmadsr IOhannes signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
On 06/04/2015 02:57 PM, Julian Brooks wrote: JUst double-checked to be sure and sudo apt-get install pd-iemlib definitely working here. pd-iemlib has only been added in Debian/jessie. btw, pd-iemtab has only been added *now*. fmdsar IOhannes signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. That is not easy to get each library and install it ! Since I need [sigmund~], cyclone's [avg~], iem filters, [shell]... that won't be a fast task. Sometimes I don't even know were to download them... If I understand well, I cannot use apt-get install, since this won't be the freshest vanilla's with the ARM patch ? [...] It depends which Debian you're using on ARM. If Debian Wheezy, you get an old 'pre-ARM Pd' from repository, with troubles like subnormals. If Debian Jessie, you should get a recent enough version that works well. There's also a way to build Jessie's Pd on Wheezy, described by IOhannes on pd list. Katja ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
2015-06-03 20:06 GMT+02:00 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoel...@iem.at: On 06/03/2015 07:42 PM, Raphaël Ilias wrote: Hi, I'm trying to install latest vanilla on A20-OlinuXino board as Katja adviced me. I'm such a newbie with debian : I don't manage to make it work ! What I did is : $ apt-get remove pd-extended - got the latest *source* from Miller Puckette's website (pd-0.46-6) $ tar xzf pd-0.46-6-src.tar.gz $ cd pd-0.46-6 - then, as I read in INSTALL.TXT, i did: $ ./autogen.sh $ ./configure $ make you missed: $ sudo make install gamsrd IOhannes Thanks IOhannes, that did it ! (however as far as I can see, this isn't mentionned in the INSTALL.TXT) Now, I'll try to install externals... At least, the gui seems to be faster than it was with pd-extended thanks, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Wow. That is not easy to get each library and install it ! Since I need [sigmund~], cyclone's [avg~], iem filters, [shell]... that won't be a fast task. Sometimes I don't even know were to download them... If I understand well, I cannot use apt-get install, since this won't be the freshest vanilla's with the ARM patch ? As an example, I tried to apt-get install zexy, but it also installed a puredata-core. thanks, Raphaël 2015-06-03 21:33 GMT+02:00 Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com: 2015-06-03 20:06 GMT+02:00 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoel...@iem.at: On 06/03/2015 07:42 PM, Raphaël Ilias wrote: Hi, I'm trying to install latest vanilla on A20-OlinuXino board as Katja adviced me. I'm such a newbie with debian : I don't manage to make it work ! What I did is : $ apt-get remove pd-extended - got the latest *source* from Miller Puckette's website (pd-0.46-6) $ tar xzf pd-0.46-6-src.tar.gz $ cd pd-0.46-6 - then, as I read in INSTALL.TXT, i did: $ ./autogen.sh $ ./configure $ make you missed: $ sudo make install gamsrd IOhannes Thanks IOhannes, that did it ! (however as far as I can see, this isn't mentionned in the INSTALL.TXT) Now, I'll try to install externals... At least, the gui seems to be faster than it was with pd-extended thanks, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
On 06/03/2015 07:42 PM, Raphaël Ilias wrote: Hi, I'm trying to install latest vanilla on A20-OlinuXino board as Katja adviced me. I'm such a newbie with debian : I don't manage to make it work ! What I did is : $ apt-get remove pd-extended - got the latest *source* from Miller Puckette's website (pd-0.46-6) $ tar xzf pd-0.46-6-src.tar.gz $ cd pd-0.46-6 - then, as I read in INSTALL.TXT, i did: $ ./autogen.sh $ ./configure $ make you missed: $ sudo make install gamsrd IOhannes signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Hello, Updating this thread about Olimex's OlinuXino board (A20-LIME A20-LIME2) I still get the following error (in fact the console gets filled with dozens of them in a few seconds) : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe And the all DSP gets stuck, it is not computed anymore (i.e. [env~] doesn't output anymore). I tried to make an abstraction to detect that dsp isn't active and restart it (;pd dsp 0, then ;pd dsp 1 -- the DSP button stays ticked). This error appears at every startup of pd, and then randomly, I think mostly when opening new patcher window or on CPU load peaks. In general, pd's gui is quite slow (maybe normal on such board), and - don't know if this is related - sometimes Xorg crashes (I'm using the precooked debian distribution by Olimex) I remember to read on this list that Raspberry Pi users should use a patched version of vanilla for ARM processors, isn't it ? (And Julian also adviced me to avoid pd-extended) I think I'll give a try, but is there a little step-by-step howto to learn how to install this version on a debian ? Any help much appreciated ! cheers, Raphaël 2015-05-22 12:44 GMT+02:00 Winfried Ritsch rit...@iem.at: just to add my experience. I am now running some Olimex A10-Lime with amplifier boards on a sound installation and it works quite stable. Test-board see: http://puredata.info/docs/embedded/olinuxino/algo_a10board_05_cut.jpg/view I compiled jackd myself excluding dbus service so it worked, but did not get a better performance so I use pd with ALSA directly. mfg winfried Am Mittwoch, 13. Mai 2015, 14:56:28 schrieb Raphaël Ilias: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël -- --- Ritsch, Winfried, Ao.Univ.Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Institut 17 Elektronische Musik und Akustik 8010 Graz, Inffeldgasse 10/III E-Mail rit...@iem.at Homepage http://iem.at/ritsch Mobil ++436642439369 --- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Updating this thread about Olimex's OlinuXino board (A20-LIME A20-LIME2) I still get the following error (in fact the console gets filled with dozens of them in a few seconds) : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe And the all DSP gets stuck, it is not computed anymore (i.e. [env~] doesn't output anymore). I tried to make an abstraction to detect that dsp isn't active and restart it (;pd dsp 0, then ;pd dsp 1 -- the DSP button stays ticked). This error appears at every startup of pd, and then randomly, I think mostly when opening new patcher window or on CPU load peaks. In general, pd's gui is quite slow (maybe normal on such board), and - don't know if this is related - sometimes Xorg crashes (I'm using the precooked debian distribution by Olimex) I remember to read on this list that Raspberry Pi users should use a patched version of vanilla for ARM processors, isn't it ? (And Julian also adviced me to avoid pd-extended) That patched version had a fix for denormal numbers on ARM, but the fix was included in vanilla Pd soon after. If you use latest vanilla Pd from Miller's site, chances are best that it will work with an ARM board. On Raspberry Pi 2 at least it works well for me, but it is still easy to mess things up: a short current consumption peak may cause a power brown out which in turn shoots the usb audio card. Therefore I got used to handle RPi with more care than a robust laptop: load Pd, wait till it has everything initialized, then turn dsp on, then load a cpu intensive patch. I think I'll give a try, but is there a little step-by-step howto to learn how to install this version on a debian ? Any help much appreciated ! cheers, Raphaël 2015-05-22 12:44 GMT+02:00 Winfried Ritsch rit...@iem.at: just to add my experience. I am now running some Olimex A10-Lime with amplifier boards on a sound installation and it works quite stable. Test-board see: http://puredata.info/docs/embedded/olinuxino/algo_a10board_05_cut.jpg/view I compiled jackd myself excluding dbus service so it worked, but did not get a better performance so I use pd with ALSA directly. mfg winfried Am Mittwoch, 13. Mai 2015, 14:56:28 schrieb Raphaël Ilias: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël -- --- Ritsch, Winfried, Ao.Univ.Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Institut 17 Elektronische Musik und Akustik 8010 Graz, Inffeldgasse 10/III E-Mail rit...@iem.at Homepage http://iem.at/ritsch Mobil ++436642439369 --- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
just to add my experience. I am now running some Olimex A10-Lime with amplifier boards on a sound installation and it works quite stable. Test-board see: http://puredata.info/docs/embedded/olinuxino/algo_a10board_05_cut.jpg/v iew I compiled jackd myself excluding dbus service so it worked, but did not get a better performance so I use pd with ALSA directly. mfg winfried Am Mittwoch, 13. Mai 2015, 14:56:28 schrieb Raphaël Ilias: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël -- --- Ritsch, Winfried, Ao.Univ.Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Institut 17 Elektronische Musik und Akustik 8010 Graz, Inffeldgasse 10/III E-Mail rit...@iem.at Homepagehttp://iem.at/ritsch Mobil ++436642439369 --- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Aah, apologies. Didn't realise the error occurs on startup and patch loading only On 14 May 2015 at 12:18, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: salut Cyrille ;-) (is it possible to run pd with -something like dsp 0 ?) yes, this seems to work... but a bit randomly. however, it needs to be turned off and back on to work in the main patch, i added something like [loadbang] | [delay 5000] | [t b b] | | |[; pd dsp 0 ( | [delay 100] | [; pd dsp 1 ( i always have the error messages on startup, but then it's ok however, audio/dsp sometimes gets stuck when opening other patches i'll try to make a sort of watchdog that monitors when audio isn't computed anymore (i.e. [env~] doesn't output values anymore...) thanks for suggestions, __phae_ 2015-05-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Cyrille Henry c...@chnry.net: hello, Le 13/05/2015 14:56, Raphaël Ilias a écrit : However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) can you try to stop the audio processing, open the patch, and start dsp after the patch is loaded? i guess the patch loading need to much cpu so audio can not be computed in the same time. cheers c ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Hi Raphaël, Personally never got to the bottom of that error on Debian with pd-extended 0.43. Would recommend jumping to vanilla - most libs are available in the repo's. Hope that helps. Sounds an interesting project, be keen to hear how you get on. Regards, Julian On 13 May 2015 at 13:56, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] olimex board
Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Project sounds good, like to hear/see it. Installation of libs is easy search available libs in debian repo sudo apt-cache search pd-* (there's probably a better way of searching that doesn't bring up so much cruft - they're in there, just scroll up) then sudo apt-get install pd-whatever and you should be ready to go. There are some (bit out of date) lists of PdE objects floating around online and the help files from most objects tell you what lib they're part of. Very likely that you'd get Jack running with recent vanilla from repo's too. Completely understand you not wanting to change such a fundamental component at this late stage. I spent several months, on and off, attempting to sort that error - it was annoying. Good luck with it all, Julian On 13 May 2015 at 16:21, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Julian, Thanks for your suggestion. However I'm really accustomed to pd-extended and never tried to install externals by myself... and I'm quite short on time to learn this (public show in one month ;-) ) Do you really think this is related to pd-extended ? the way pd-extended interfaces with soundcard/driver is the same as vanilla's, isn't it ? About the project : the idea is to have an autonomous system with a tiny computer running pd, with microphone input (cheap electret) and a loudspeaker, everything working on batteries. WiFi let me control patches or even write patches through VNC. On the hardware it's quite fine : i get input/output sound, and the board can run about 6 hours with a 6600mAh battery. Loudspeaker is a commercial battery-powered amplifier with its own batteries. I used to have some noise in the microphone because the wifi dongle was too close, so i got some extra cable and sound is quite good now. cheers, Raphaël 2015-05-13 15:33 GMT+02:00 Julian Brooks jbee...@gmail.com: Hi Raphaël, Personally never got to the bottom of that error on Debian with pd-extended 0.43. Would recommend jumping to vanilla - most libs are available in the repo's. Hope that helps. Sounds an interesting project, be keen to hear how you get on. Regards, Julian On 13 May 2015 at 13:56, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
Hi Julian, Thanks for your suggestion. However I'm really accustomed to pd-extended and never tried to install externals by myself... and I'm quite short on time to learn this (public show in one month ;-) ) Do you really think this is related to pd-extended ? the way pd-extended interfaces with soundcard/driver is the same as vanilla's, isn't it ? About the project : the idea is to have an autonomous system with a tiny computer running pd, with microphone input (cheap electret) and a loudspeaker, everything working on batteries. WiFi let me control patches or even write patches through VNC. On the hardware it's quite fine : i get input/output sound, and the board can run about 6 hours with a 6600mAh battery. Loudspeaker is a commercial battery-powered amplifier with its own batteries. I used to have some noise in the microphone because the wifi dongle was too close, so i got some extra cable and sound is quite good now. cheers, Raphaël 2015-05-13 15:33 GMT+02:00 Julian Brooks jbee...@gmail.com: Hi Raphaël, Personally never got to the bottom of that error on Debian with pd-extended 0.43. Would recommend jumping to vanilla - most libs are available in the repo's. Hope that helps. Sounds an interesting project, be keen to hear how you get on. Regards, Julian On 13 May 2015 at 13:56, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Hi ! Just to inform you that I'm currently experimenting with Olimex's development boards, this might interest some people here (i am not doing any advertising at all) who are into mobile puredata the set-up i use consists of - Olimex's A20-OLinuXino-LIME board (dual core Cortex-A7) - with their own Debian distribution - cheap USB audio interface : Terratec Aureon Dual USB - pd-extended 0.43-4 - patching through VNC (and through Wi-Fi) And it works. ..not as fast as on my laptop, of course, but I can run patches ok. yet, the GUI is indeed quite slow (especially opening a patch) However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) Searching the archive, I saw that some people got the same problem and resolved it by suspending/de-installing pulseaudio. But it seems that pulseaudio isn't installed here. Maybe someone has got a clue, where to search...? (i know this is very specific problem !) all best, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
hello, Le 13/05/2015 14:56, Raphaël Ilias a écrit : However, I have a few troubles, but it might not be the right place to ask... I am newbie to debian, so I couldn't setup jack at all. I'm using alsa but I get the error at startup : ALSA output error (restart failed): Broken pipe (and also sometimes when opening patche, I get a bunch of these and DSP get stuck, i need to turn OFF and ON again pd's DSP to get audio back.) can you try to stop the audio processing, open the patch, and start dsp after the patch is loaded? i guess the patch loading need to much cpu so audio can not be computed in the same time. cheers c ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
