Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Chris McCormick]

On 09/03/18 00:09, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

we are proud to announce a major overhaul of the deken fileformat.


Great work, thanks for your efforts!

Cheers,

Chris.

--
http://mccormick.cx/

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Jack]

Le 09/03/2018 à 20:37, IOhannes m zmölnig a écrit :
> On 03/09/2018 02:46 PM, Jack wrote:
>> Thanx for the people involved in the dev of this plugin. It is cool to
>> have such a plugin to manage externals.
>>
>> A few remark on my configuration (Ubuntu 17.10, Pd version 0.48.1) :
>> - When I click the button "Preferences", the preferences window is to
>> large to be handle by my monitor so i can't see the last lines. I need
>> to move the window by pressing the window key.
> 
> hmm, well.
> either you have a very small screen, or you have many many Pd search
> paths added.

Yep, the last option is good.

> i think the later indicates an issue with your workflow (though i guess
> that this is because deken keeps asking you to add libraries to your
> search path; which is *really* an issue, although it is just a
> workaround for Pd issue)

Maybe, i have to clean my .pdsettings.

> 
> in any case, the paths section should get a vertical scrollbar to
> prevent such issues.

Yes !

> 
>> - If the mouse cursor goes over results, the preferences button
>> disappears. I need to make the window bigger to see the button again.
> 
> you could also just wait.
> the status output (which hides the preferences button) disappears after
> a couple of seconds.

OK, just test it and you are right, but 5 seconds it's very long !

> 
> but yes, this is an issue.
> 
> please file (separate) bug-reports for both issues on
>   https://github.com/pure-data/deken/issues

OK, done.
++


Jack


> 
> gfamrds
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 03/09/2018 02:46 PM, Jack wrote:
> Thanx for the people involved in the dev of this plugin. It is cool to
> have such a plugin to manage externals.
> 
> A few remark on my configuration (Ubuntu 17.10, Pd version 0.48.1) :
> - When I click the button "Preferences", the preferences window is to
> large to be handle by my monitor so i can't see the last lines. I need
> to move the window by pressing the window key.

hmm, well.
either you have a very small screen, or you have many many Pd search
paths added.
i think the later indicates an issue with your workflow (though i guess
that this is because deken keeps asking you to add libraries to your
search path; which is *really* an issue, although it is just a
workaround for Pd issue)

in any case, the paths section should get a vertical scrollbar to
prevent such issues.

> - If the mouse cursor goes over results, the preferences button
> disappears. I need to make the window bigger to see the button again.

you could also just wait.
the status output (which hides the preferences button) disappears after
a couple of seconds.

but yes, this is an issue.

please file (separate) bug-reports for both issues on
  https://github.com/pure-data/deken/issues

gfamrds
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Jack]

Thanx for the people involved in the dev of this plugin. It is cool to
have such a plugin to manage externals.

A few remark on my configuration (Ubuntu 17.10, Pd version 0.48.1) :
- When I click the button "Preferences", the preferences window is to
large to be handle by my monitor so i can't see the last lines. I need
to move the window by pressing the window key.
- If the mouse cursor goes over results, the preferences button
disappears. I need to make the window bigger to see the button again.

++

Jack




Le 08/03/2018 à 17:09, IOhannes m zmoelnig a écrit :
> we are proud to announce a major overhaul of the deken fileformat.
> 
> TL;DR to download new deken packages, you will need at least version
> v0.3.0 of the deken-plugin (Pd-0.48-1 includes deken-v0.2.4).
> When searching externals with an old (incompatible) version of the
> plugin, you will always find a suggestion to install the new plugin with
> something like:
> 
>> deken-plugin/0.3.0
>>  (Deken externals downloader - REQUIRED FOR NEW PACKAGES)
> 
> once you have installed the new version (and/or Pd includes a compatible
> version), the nagging will stop :-)
> 
> 
> # fileformat
> 
> the new fileformat fixes a number of issues we had with the existing one.
> things that are better:
> - cool filename extension '.dek'
> - consistent archival options for all platforms (ZIP!)
> - proper detection of the version string for all libraries (even if the
> library has a weird name like "a-v12"
> - support for double-precision externals (once Pd supports that!)
> - extensible
> 
> 
> # Pd-integration
> the updated "deken-plugin" has a number of nifty features, you don't
> want to miss:
> - support for the new fileformat
> - support for the old (legacy) fileformat
> - (optionally) uninstall libraries before re-installing them
> - (optionally) show a README that is included in the package on
> successful installation
> - set installation path (suggesting Pd's default search paths, and
> offering to create those that are missing)
> - (optionally) hides the search-results for incompatible platforms
> - (optionally) overrides the "compatible" Pd-architecture
> - nice preferences
> - bugfixes
> - much more
> 
> 
> # Developer tools
> if you are a developer of libraries, we have also updated our 'deken'
> cmdline tool.
> things you always wanted to have and which are now free:
> - support for the new fileformat (default)
> - support for the old (legacy) fileformat
> - better detection of binary architectures
> - better detection of included sources
> - (experimental) support for double-precision externals
> - pre-compiled & self-contained Windows binaries
> - bugfixes
> - much more
> 
> 
> if you want to know more, see
> - http://puredata.info/downloads/deken/releases/0.3.0/
> - https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2018-02/021513.html
> - https://github.com/pure-data/deken/issues/161
> 
> 
> i have submitted also submitted a Pull-Request to include the new
> deken-plugin into Pd proper:
> - https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/320
> 
> and another Pull-Request for Pd that is required to make the
> double-precision detection work:
> - https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/300
> 
> 
> happy patching.
> fgm,asdr
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2018-03-08 14:27 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :
>
>
> Now, I don't know how the plugin works, but I may assume it gets these
> paths from Pd, so maybe if my Pull Request gets accepted, no change needs
> to be made in the Deken plugin and it'll just stop showing them...
>

Yes, that is correct, I tried the Pull Request with the new plugin and it
just didn't prompt me for these additional standard paths, so this can be
discussed completely in parallel. And by the way, I closed the old one and
have a new Pull Request for that -
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/321

cheers and congratulations again for the great work on Deken
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2018-03-08 17:44 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli :

> At the risk of not being helpful to the issue by adding another
> opinion, I disagree. Or rather: I do not really follow you.


That's quite possible, when it comes to me :/


> I don't see any problem with deken installing into a hidden folder. It's a
> pretty
> common thing on all OSs. Just a have a look at the contents of
> ~/Library, %AppData%\, ~/.local/ .
>

Yeah, that's not really the point. Perhaps this needs yet more
contextualization. The idea that deken should create non existing (but
needed/relevant) folders is old. It comes from a resistance that Pd should
create such folders automatically, so, as a solution, you could do that
inside Deken, and Pd wouldn't impose the creation of such folders.

A further aggravating factor is that one of such supposedly needed/relevant
folders, in macOS, became hidden since 10.6, and this would be "
~/Library/Pd". So it became quite inconvenient and counterproductive, so we
needed a better default place to keep externals.

Now, well, does Pd have files somewhere inside ~/Library? Yeah, but where?
In ~/Library/Preferences. Does Pd need a "Pd" folder inside ~/Library for
its documents? No, to the extent that Pd doesn't even create a folder there
on its own there...

And do we need Pd documents and externals in hidden places? Does it have
any advantage? No, it doesn't. And in fact, such folder wasn't chosen
because it was hidden. It became hidden and inconvenient. It's not that
having a hidden folder for externals in macOS was intended by design and
principle in the first place.


> You say: "Newbies have troubles finding the folder"
>
> I say: "Newbies shouldn't have to know about it all"
>

What is the advantage of keeping externals in a hidden folder so people can
not even have a look at it and browse through them?

Ideally (in my notion of how things would ideally be), there is nothing
> to be done manually in that folder. Ideally, deken is a management
> interface  for the user to install, enable, disable, remove libraries.
>

But it doesn't do all that, for instance, it doesn't delete/remove
libraries. And maybe it doesn't have to. Why does it have to do everything,
if there are many things you can easily do manually, like  a simple thing
such as delete a folder. What would be the advantage of hiding it and
having a framework to do it for you?

And if you want to have a hidden folder if you wish, you can. Just
configure Pd and deken to use a hidden folder of your choice. It's just
that there is nothing special about ~/Library/Pd, it's quite arbitrary...

And anyway, what came out of an old discussion is that we should indeed
have a new and visible folder for externals. Hence ~/Documents/Pd, a
visible and easily accessible folder, instead of ~/Library/Pd, an
inconvenient hidden one. Again, this solved all the issues. We've been
through all that before. Same concern about Pd not adding ~/Documents/Pd
automatically was solved by now prompting the user when it is first
launched, and then creates it for you.

So why are we giving this step back? Why are we concerned in making it
easier to manage that hidden folder that Pd doesn't create for you? What is
special about it? If we're going for friendliness, my point was not that we
should avoid, by principle, hidden folders, it was just that this had
already been sorted and we do have a new, better, and user friendly
procedure since 0.48-0! Doing this now only adds up complexity and
confusion, and it isn't even a full solution. Ok, so now you can at least
create the folder, but how can you access it? If we're going to that
direction, maybe deken should open that folder too for us...

There's no point in trying to fix something that has been already fixed
again in a different way. And please understand that I was one that was
asking for such a deken feature in the first place, it's just that things
have changed and we already have a different outcome.

Unless... unless such a folder is indeed needed and special by design. But
it isn't. We've also been through that. I also thought it was supposed to
be special, namely an additional "standard path", and that Pd needed and
had such standard paths, but it turns out it doesn't! the "standard path"
should be only one, the "extra" folder.

So there's really nothing about this that makes sense, as I see it. This is
just an ugly kludge, this is just more noise into the system.

You would install a library and this is enables you to simply do [declare
> -std[path|lib] yourlib] to use it in your patch.


You're using the "-std" prefix, giving the idea we should install in
"standard path", and this is also a confusing topic. We shouldn't, we can
pretty much, and should, just use -path and -lib.


> It looks like we're getting closer to that with all the efforts done
> recently.
>

Yes we are, and I don't wanna sound negative, I'm really glad and excited
with all the developments. Like I said before, I consider 

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Roman Haefeli]

On Don, 2018-03-08 at 17:09 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> we are proud to announce a major overhaul of the deken fileformat.

[...]

> - (optionally) uninstall libraries before re-installing them

Yay!

Thanks for your work. Nice development of matters.

Roman

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[JP Cimalando via Pd-list]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:09:02 +0100
IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> we are proud to announce a major overhaul of the deken fileformat.
> 
This is nice.

I have uploaded a few deks now. How do I make them show up in Pd?

I try to send objects.txt by deken upload. It says this:
'jpcex-v0.1-objects.txt' is not an externals archive!

What to do next? (is this file actually needed anymore?)
Do I just wait for the server side to index my package?

Thanks

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Antoine Rousseau]

Thank you so much for this invaluable (and substantial...) work, which
still promises a long life to Pd, allowing everyone to bring his own stone
to the building!

Antoine Rousseau
  http://www.metalu.net  __
http://www.metaluachahuter.com/



2018-03-08 17:09 GMT+01:00 IOhannes m zmoelnig :

> we are proud to announce a major overhaul of the deken fileformat.
>
> TL;DR to download new deken packages, you will need at least version
> v0.3.0 of the deken-plugin (Pd-0.48-1 includes deken-v0.2.4).
> When searching externals with an old (incompatible) version of the
> plugin, you will always find a suggestion to install the new plugin with
> something like:
>
> > deken-plugin/0.3.0
> >  (Deken externals downloader - REQUIRED FOR NEW PACKAGES)
>
> once you have installed the new version (and/or Pd includes a compatible
> version), the nagging will stop :-)
>
>
> # fileformat
>
> the new fileformat fixes a number of issues we had with the existing one.
> things that are better:
> - cool filename extension '.dek'
> - consistent archival options for all platforms (ZIP!)
> - proper detection of the version string for all libraries (even if the
> library has a weird name like "a-v12"
> - support for double-precision externals (once Pd supports that!)
> - extensible
>
>
> # Pd-integration
> the updated "deken-plugin" has a number of nifty features, you don't
> want to miss:
> - support for the new fileformat
> - support for the old (legacy) fileformat
> - (optionally) uninstall libraries before re-installing them
> - (optionally) show a README that is included in the package on
> successful installation
> - set installation path (suggesting Pd's default search paths, and
> offering to create those that are missing)
> - (optionally) hides the search-results for incompatible platforms
> - (optionally) overrides the "compatible" Pd-architecture
> - nice preferences
> - bugfixes
> - much more
>
>
> # Developer tools
> if you are a developer of libraries, we have also updated our 'deken'
> cmdline tool.
> things you always wanted to have and which are now free:
> - support for the new fileformat (default)
> - support for the old (legacy) fileformat
> - better detection of binary architectures
> - better detection of included sources
> - (experimental) support for double-precision externals
> - pre-compiled & self-contained Windows binaries
> - bugfixes
> - much more
>
>
> if you want to know more, see
> - http://puredata.info/downloads/deken/releases/0.3.0/
> - https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2018-02/021513.html
> - https://github.com/pure-data/deken/issues/161
>
>
> i have submitted also submitted a Pull-Request to include the new
> deken-plugin into Pd proper:
> - https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/320
>
> and another Pull-Request for Pd that is required to make the
> double-precision detection work:
> - https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/300
>
>
> happy patching.
> fgm,asdr
> IOhannes
>
>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2018-03-08 17:09, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
[...]
> # Pd-integration
> the updated "deken-plugin" has a number of nifty features, you don't
> want to miss:
> - bugfixes


by now, we are at v0.3.1, which (among other things) works around
Microsoft's insistance that zip-files *must* end with .zip.

i've retracted the v0.3.0 release...

dams
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2018-03-08 17:46, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> awesome!
> 
> 2018-03-08 13:09 GMT-03:00 IOhannes m zmoelnig :
> 
>>
>> - (optionally) show a README that is included in the package on
>> successful installation
>>
> 
> Can this be any file format, like a PDF? Or does it have to be .txt or
> something?

it has to be either a .pd, .html or .txt file, must be named:
 README.deken.pd (or similar) and must live inside the /
folder.
so if your package is "cyclone[v0.0](SystemV-pdp11-8).dek" this would be
"cyclone/README.deken.txt"

fgasdrm
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] deken v0.3.0: new fileformat for library packages

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

awesome!

2018-03-08 13:09 GMT-03:00 IOhannes m zmoelnig :

>
> - (optionally) show a README that is included in the package on
> successful installation
>

Can this be any file format, like a PDF? Or does it have to be .txt or
something?

cheers
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