Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Hi Marco, thanks for testing! I think aoo 2.0-pre1 is broken on macOS. This has been fixed on develop (together with many other things). I'd suggest to wait for the next release, however, which will come beginning of next week. Best, Christof On 16.05.2020 03:18, Marco Schretter wrote: dear winfried, dear christof, thanks! aoo 2.0-pre1 is running on my linux machines. on osx i tried it with the deken version and my compiled git-version but i get no bangs on the ping-button, no sound on the receiver side when i [start( . but i see all sinks/sources with [list(. after opening patches: new aoo server on port new aoo server on port 9998 input device 0, channels 1 output device 2, channels 2 framesperbuf 64, nbufs 60 rate 48000 ... opened OK. after add: aoo_receive~: source 127.0.0.1 9998 1 aoo_receive~: source 127.0.0.1 1 SINK: 127.0.0.1 1 SINK: 127.0.0.1 9998 1 i don't get errors in the console but in the the terminal after clicking [start( and/or [pd dsp 1(: DSP tick(s) took too long! sendto: Invalid argument (22) osx 10.13.6 pd-0.50-0 (and others) aoo 2.0-pre1 yours, m Am 04.04.20 um 13:37 schrieb Winfried Ritsch: Thats fine, you can get a compiled newest version compiled by gitlab CI in https://git.iem.at/cm/aoo/pipelines/4075 also I hope deken packages are out soon with a new version V2.0-a2 mfg winfried Am Samstag, 4. April 2020, 12:18:53 CEST schrieb Edwin van der Heide: Hi Winfried, Thanks for news. I’m going to learn how to compile this for macos and try it out. Best, Edwin On 3 Apr 2020, at 00:40, Winfried Ritsch wrote: Hello, Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code added. (see doku there for history and ideas) http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) The feature list is huge, but mostly: - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies overcoming packet loss and network weakness - it monitors the connections quality and latencies - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... ... This is also a Request for Comments: get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it --- Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: see also:https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb mfG Winfried ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
dear winfried, dear christof, thanks! aoo 2.0-pre1 is running on my linux machines. on osx i tried it with the deken version and my compiled git-version but i get no bangs on the ping-button, no sound on the receiver side when i [start( . but i see all sinks/sources with [list(. after opening patches: new aoo server on port new aoo server on port 9998 input device 0, channels 1 output device 2, channels 2 framesperbuf 64, nbufs 60 rate 48000 ... opened OK. after add: aoo_receive~: source 127.0.0.1 9998 1 aoo_receive~: source 127.0.0.1 1 SINK: 127.0.0.1 1 SINK: 127.0.0.1 9998 1 i don't get errors in the console but in the the terminal after clicking [start( and/or [pd dsp 1(: DSP tick(s) took too long! sendto: Invalid argument (22) osx 10.13.6 pd-0.50-0 (and others) aoo 2.0-pre1 yours, m Am 04.04.20 um 13:37 schrieb Winfried Ritsch: Thats fine, you can get a compiled newest version compiled by gitlab CI in https://git.iem.at/cm/aoo/pipelines/4075 also I hope deken packages are out soon with a new version V2.0-a2 mfg winfried Am Samstag, 4. April 2020, 12:18:53 CEST schrieb Edwin van der Heide: Hi Winfried, Thanks for news. I’m going to learn how to compile this for macos and try it out. Best, Edwin On 3 Apr 2020, at 00:40, Winfried Ritsch wrote: Hello, Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code added. (see doku there for history and ideas) http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) The feature list is huge, but mostly: - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies overcoming packet loss and network weakness - it monitors the connections quality and latencies - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... ... This is also a Request for Comments: get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it --- Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: see also:https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb mfG Winfried ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 00:40 +0200, Winfried Ritsch wrote: > The feature list is huge, but mostly: I am very excited to read this. This looks really interesting and promising. Thanks for sharing. Roman signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Cannot wait for that !!! Thanks in advance ! On 04/04/2020 15:02, Christof wrote: I'm currently working on a UDP punch hole server, so that people can easily create peer-to-peer-networks over the internet und jam together :-) ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Thanks, Christof! I'll definitely give it a try. At the moment I'm still busy with a bunch of other stuff for a while. As soon as I get to it I will compare what works better for expanding my sample voices to different processes. Ingo > -Original Message- > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Christof > Ressi > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 3:02 PM > To: Pd-List > Subject: Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based > streaming solution goes public... > > Hi, you definitely can stream between apps on the same computer. > Regarding latency you have to measure, but there are basically three > parameters regarding the latency in the case of Pd: > > a) network latency (negligible for localhost) > > b) hardware buffer size / Pd latency > > c) [aoo_receive~] buffer size > > On my Windows 7 laptop with an ASIO driver and 64 sample hardware buffer > size and 5ms Pd latency, I can set the [aoo_receive~] buffer size down to > 4-5 > ms. On some other systems, you might get even lower. One of the use cases > of AOO is certainly low latency audio streaming over local networks, > especially over long periods of time (literally weeks or months, given that > the > devices have access to a NTP time server). > > AOO does have a bit more latency than [pd~] because of the extra buffer in > [aoo_receive~]. I think it rather depends what you need: [pd~] is slaved to > the parent process, but provides sample accuracy. On the other hand, when > you run a seperate Pd instance and pass audio with AOO, they are fully > independent. > > Give it a try and report back! Here's the latest snapshot (Just unpack the > .dek > archive): https://git.iem.at/cm/aoo/-/jobs/10983/artifacts/download > > I'm currently working on a UDP punch hole server, so that people can easily > create peer-to-peer-networks over the internet und jam together :-) > > Christof > > On 04.04.2020 13:21, Ingo wrote: > > Is this going to work for something like streaming 2-4 synth voices > > from one patch to another one inside of one computer? > > If yes, will the latency be lower than using the [pd~] object or will > > it be the same or higher? > > > > Thanks! > > Ingo > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of > >> Winfried Ritsch > >> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2020 12:40 AM > >> To: Pd-List > >> Subject: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based > >> streaming solution goes public... > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes > >> using the build-in network objects has been resolved and own > >> networking code added. > >> (see doku there for history and ideas) > >> > >> http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo > >> > >> (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) > >> > >> The feature list is huge, but mostly: > >> - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: > >>small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range > >> streams > >> - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies > >>overcoming packet loss and network weakness > >> - it monitors the connections quality and latencies > >> - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... > >> ... > >> > >> This is also a Request for Comments: > >> > >> get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance > >> it > >> > >> --- > >> Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project > >> Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" > >> from > >> Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" > >> network . > >> ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) > >> > >> with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now > >> stable for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: > >> > >> see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb > >> > >> mfG Winfried > >> > >> -- > >> -- > >> - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch > >> - rit...@iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch > >> - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik > >> - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz > >> - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Hi, you definitely can stream between apps on the same computer. Regarding latency you have to measure, but there are basically three parameters regarding the latency in the case of Pd: a) network latency (negligible for localhost) b) hardware buffer size / Pd latency c) [aoo_receive~] buffer size On my Windows 7 laptop with an ASIO driver and 64 sample hardware buffer size and 5ms Pd latency, I can set the [aoo_receive~] buffer size down to 4-5 ms. On some other systems, you might get even lower. One of the use cases of AOO is certainly low latency audio streaming over local networks, especially over long periods of time (literally weeks or months, given that the devices have access to a NTP time server). AOO does have a bit more latency than [pd~] because of the extra buffer in [aoo_receive~]. I think it rather depends what you need: [pd~] is slaved to the parent process, but provides sample accuracy. On the other hand, when you run a seperate Pd instance and pass audio with AOO, they are fully independent. Give it a try and report back! Here's the latest snapshot (Just unpack the .dek archive): https://git.iem.at/cm/aoo/-/jobs/10983/artifacts/download I'm currently working on a UDP punch hole server, so that people can easily create peer-to-peer-networks over the internet und jam together :-) Christof On 04.04.2020 13:21, Ingo wrote: Is this going to work for something like streaming 2-4 synth voices from one patch to another one inside of one computer? If yes, will the latency be lower than using the [pd~] object or will it be the same or higher? Thanks! Ingo -Original Message- From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Winfried Ritsch Sent: Friday, April 03, 2020 12:40 AM To: Pd-List Subject: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public... Hello, Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code added. (see doku there for history and ideas) http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) The feature list is huge, but mostly: - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies overcoming packet loss and network weakness - it monitors the connections quality and latencies - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... ... This is also a Request for Comments: get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it --- Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb mfG Winfried -- -- - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch - rit...@iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 -- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Thats fine, you can get a compiled newest version compiled by gitlab CI in https://git.iem.at/cm/aoo/pipelines/4075 also I hope deken packages are out soon with a new version V2.0-a2 mfg winfried Am Samstag, 4. April 2020, 12:18:53 CEST schrieb Edwin van der Heide: > Hi Winfried, > > Thanks for news. > > I’m going to learn how to compile this for macos and try it out. > > Best, > > Edwin > > > On 3 Apr 2020, at 00:40, Winfried Ritsch wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using > > the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code > > added. (see doku there for history and ideas) > > > > http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo > > > > (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) > > > > The feature list is huge, but mostly: > > > > - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: > > small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range > > streams > > > > - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies > > > > overcoming packet loss and network weakness > > > > - it monitors the connections quality and latencies > > - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... > > ... > > > > This is also a Request for Comments: > > get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it > > > > --- > > Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment > > for > > "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana > > - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . > > ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) > > > > with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable > > for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: > > > > see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb > > > > mfG Winfried ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Is this going to work for something like streaming 2-4 synth voices from one patch to another one inside of one computer? If yes, will the latency be lower than using the [pd~] object or will it be the same or higher? Thanks! Ingo > -Original Message- > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Winfried > Ritsch > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2020 12:40 AM > To: Pd-List > Subject: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming > solution goes public... > > Hello, > > Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using > the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code > added. > (see doku there for history and ideas) > > http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo > > (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) > > The feature list is huge, but mostly: > - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: > small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams > - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies > overcoming packet loss and network weakness > - it monitors the connections quality and latencies > - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... > ... > > This is also a Request for Comments: > >get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it > > --- > Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project > Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" > from > Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" > network . > ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) > > with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable > for > over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: > > see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb > > mfG Winfried > > -- > -- > - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch > - rit...@iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch > - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik > - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz > - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 > -- > > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Hi, I will upload binaries to Deken for Windows, macOS and Linux today, so they should be available tomorrow! Compiling from source should be straight forward, though. The only external dependency is the Opus library: macOS: homebrew -> "brew install opus". Windows: msys2 -> "pacman -S mingw32/mingw-w64-i686-opus" (32 bit) resp. "pacman -S mingw64/mingw-w64-x86_64-opus" (64 bit) Linux: apt -> "apt-get install libopus-dev" I think this info is still missing in the README, I have to add it. Best, Christof On 04.04.2020 12:18, Edwin van der Heide wrote: Hi Winfried, Thanks for news. I’m going to learn how to compile this for macos and try it out. Best, Edwin On 3 Apr 2020, at 00:40, Winfried Ritsch wrote: Hello, Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using the build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code added. (see doku there for history and ideas) http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) The feature list is huge, but mostly: - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies overcoming packet loss and network weakness - it monitors the connections quality and latencies - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... ... This is also a Request for Comments: get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it --- Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment for "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana - Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable for over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb mfG Winfried -- -- - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch - rit...@iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 -- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] AoO Coming Out: Audio over OSC - Message based streaming solution goes public...
Hi Winfried, Thanks for news. I’m going to learn how to compile this for macos and try it out. Best, Edwin > On 3 Apr 2020, at 00:40, Winfried Ritsch wrote: > > Hello, > > Thanks Christof Ressi the old concept was rewritten and short-comes using the > build-in network objects has been resolved and own networking code added. > (see doku there for history and ideas) > > http://git.iem.at/cm/aoo > > (Note it is an alpha version, but beta should follow soon) > > The feature list is huge, but mostly: > - it supports raw audio and opus audio codec: > small latencies for playing together - long buffers for long range streams > - it supports time synchronous streaming and resend strategies > overcoming packet loss and network weakness > - it monitors the connections quality and latencies > - it is prepared fot punch-hole connections trough firewalls and ... > ... > > This is also a Request for Comments: > > get it - test it - use it - comment and report - to enhance it > > --- > Note: The development was done within the Streaming Project Reenactment for > "Sonic projections" in the exhibition "Primal energies" from Bill Fontana - > Kunsthaus Graz using the community "FunkFeuer Graz" network . > ( All artwork in museums are closed except this one on the facade ) > > with a mix of Arm based streaming devices: the DIYasb it runs now stable > for > over a month all over Funkfeuer Graz.: > > see also: https://git.iem.at/cm/diyasb > > mfG Winfried > > -- > -- > - ao.Univ.Prof. DI Winfried Ritsch > - rit...@iem.at - http://iem.at/ritsch > - Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik > - University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz > - Tel. ++43-316-389-3510 (3170) Fax ++43-316-389-3171 > -- > > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
