Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Mario Mey]

- It will send this file, by Bluetooth through the serial port, to 
the "device”.

This is not possible.
Why do you say that it's not possible? With what app/framework is not 
possible? PdDroid? oFX? Any?
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Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Mario Mey]

The time line was:

/- Mario, could you build a phone/tablet app that does this and that?//
//- Yes!//
/
Then:

/- Mario, we want to make this app, but for Windows, because tablets are 
not being manufacturing and the phones are too small...//

//- Let me show you how the app could be in the phone...//
//- Oh, we like it! Let's do it for phones!/

So, maybe it would be better to develop the app for Windows (*) (and, 
for the market which it is directed, also for OSX). But, again, it has 
to connect via Bluetooth to the device... and, for the second instance, 
it should connect again to the device. Also, this could be another app 
in the phone that only does this... well, now I'm more confused than before.


(*) Options:
- for Windows, someone told me to make it with Max MSP, as standalone 
application.
- Is there a possibility to run PureData only in "Play Mode"? Maybe I 
can pack a portable Win version of PureData with a batch that runs the 
patch **like** a standalone app...



As a good developer, I have to give my customers **solutions**, not 
confusion. So, I'm still thinking a good solution for all this. If 
someone has any idea that will route the solution, I would be appreciate.


Cheers.
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Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Mario Mey]

Dan Wilcox, what a surprise that **you** too answer this!

Sounds like you’re going to have to learn *alot* really quickly. There 
is no *easy way*, especially when you want to distribute things on the 
various App Stores.

I arrived to the same conclusion.

I’d recommend partnering with a mobile app developer so you can focus 
on the PD stuff, otherwise you’ll be spending a long time getting the 
hang of things before you actually get to do the actual app. Trust me.
I trust you. The thing is that, if I find a Mobile app developer, the Pd 
part will be minimum compared to the rest of the development.


For something simple, quick, and dirty, I’d highly recommend 
OpenFrameworks.

Yes... in the list, is the most difficult to me. It's "another world".

For platform specific stuff, work with native Android and iOS 
directly. Both have great frameworks, development environments, 
documentation, etc. libpd provides project files to build for both. If 
the core of the work is in the Pd patches themselves and the UI is 
mainly a thin skin, you could share the same patches and just write 
the UI natively for both platforms.

More distant frameworks... more "distant worlds"...

- It will send this file, by Bluetooth through the serial port, to the 
"device”.


This is not possible. Better to use the built in file access (iTunes 
File sharing over USB, Android SD card) or a mini webserver people can 
point a browser or FTP program to.
Well, I said "file", but it is data. Most likely 1536 bytes (256*6). If 
I can't send this data, I won't can send the "start" command and 
time-to-syncronize commands...
Again, you’re not going to use Bluetooth for this. Or at least you 
probably *could* but it wouldn’t be as easily done as using something 
like OSC over a wifi network.

Maybe... I'll ask the device developer.




Using Kivy (http://kivy.org )
I don’t know about this one. You’ll need probably have a harder time 
setting up libpd to work with it.

It looks very nice. And uses Python. For me, is "nearer".


Using OpenFrameWorks (http://openframeworks.cc/)
This will work out of the box for both iOS and Android with the same 
core code. You just need to use the Project Generator to create 
different built files for each platform. It’s perfect for simple 
things but you will *have* to use native code in order to create 
native GUIS.

Learning C++ now? No, thank you! :P


:)
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Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Mario Mey]

Daniel Iglesia, what a surprise that **you** answer this!
Dan Wilcox, I answer you in the next mail. And maybe there's one more, a 
generic one...


Do you mean a separate piece of hardware that is connected to the 
phone/tablet?
The device is a hardware. Imagine that this is a one-led-box, with 
Bluetooth connection, an internal clock/timer and it stores some data 
(256 * 6 bytes). When it recieve the "start" command, it starts its 
timer and turn on and off the led, as the sequence says. But this is not 
my job, it's their.


This customer is an electronic engineer. He told me that, when you make 
a Bluetooth connection, you can send as a serial port emulator (e.g. 
COM10). Also, I read in some page that, when you make a Bluetooth 
connection (with a computer), the port appears in the serial list 
automatically. As I've never worked with serials, I supposed that it 
would be like that: connect to a serial port. Now I know, as you told 
me, that it's not so easy.


If the former: Serial output (to another device) is not supported on 
mobile OSes with [comport]. And it's not really feasible on iOS (which 
controls access, and only allows some standard protocols: MIDI, USB 
audio, etc) if you want to put it on the app store. Adding serial i/o 
on MobMuPlat for Android is on my eventual to-do list (e.g. to 
interact with an Arduino or other board), but it will have to be 
written at the native app level, not using PD objects. (e.g. you'd 
send serial data to a [send toSystem] within the PD patch).

I understand.

Regarding packaging MobMuPlat/PdParty as a standalone application: it 
is technologically straightforward since they are open source , you'd 
have to hack a few lines and re-build the app and sign it. The license 
for MobMuPlat allows it, I'm assuming that PdParty/PdDroidParty does 
as well but you'd have to check that. See my notes at the very last 
post here: 
https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/running-max-map-on-a-tablet/.
I already had thought in this posibility. I had read about licenses if 
it were possible, and it is. But I supposed that confronting to modify 
any of those apps would be harder that build a new one (Pd patch and an 
interface, as I thought).



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Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Dan Wilcox]

Sounds like you’re going to have to learn *alot* really quickly. There is no 
*easy way*, especially when you want to distribute things on the various App 
Stores. I’d recommend partnering with a mobile app developer so you can focus 
on the PD stuff, otherwise you’ll be spending a long time getting the hang of 
things before you actually get to do the actual app. Trust me.

For something simple, quick, and dirty, I’d highly recommend OpenFrameworks.

For platform specific stuff, work with native Android and iOS directly. Both 
have great frameworks, development environments, documentation, etc. libpd 
provides project files to build for both. If the core of the work is in the Pd 
patches themselves and the UI is mainly a thin skin, you could share the same 
patches and just write the UI natively for both platforms.

> Regarding packaging MobMuPlat/PdParty as a standalone application: it is 
> technologically straightforward since they are open source , you'd have to 
> hack a few lines and re-build the app and sign it. The license for MobMuPlat 
> allows it, I'm assuming that PdParty/PdDroidParty does as well but you'd have 
> to check that. See my notes at the very last post here: 
> https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/running-max-map-on-a-tablet/ 
> . 


PdParty is about to be updated and hopefully uploaded to the App Store in 
December. I’d kind of appreciate it if I was the first one to do that … :D

> On Nov 16, 2015, at 9:21 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Hi, there. I would appreciate so much your help for me to decide if I will 
> accept a job and how to go on with it.
> 
> I have a customer who needs an Android/iOS app that they will give to his 
> customer who buys them a "device" (this customer of mine is not a 
> multimillonaire company. It's far away from being like that)
> 
> The app would be something like the mockup.png attached and will do something 
> like this:
> 
> First instance:
> 
> - It opens a wav/mp3 (max: 1 hour).
> - You will see the soundwave and will can make zoom in/out to be precise (if 
> with gestures, much better).
> - You will can play/pause/stop the audio from any place in the timeline.
> - You set up to 256 markers/labels in the timeline.
> - When you click/tap a marker/label, a new window appears to modify its 
> information (time/color/type/etc).
> - It will convert each mark to a 6 bytes group.
> - It save/load files with all this markers (in binary).

This is all possible.

> - It will send this file, by Bluetooth through the serial port, to the 
> "device”.

This is not possible. Better to use the built in file access (iTunes File 
sharing over USB, Android SD card) or a mini webserver people can point a 
browser or FTP program to.

> Second instance:
> 
> - The app will start playing the wav/mp3 file.
> - It will send (by Bluetooth) the "start" command to the device.
> - (The device starts its timer and already has the sequence file).
> - For a perfect syncrhonizing, every second, the app will send the actual 
> time (by Bluetooth).

Again, you’re not going to use Bluetooth for this. Or at least you probably 
*could* but it wouldn’t be as easily done as using something like OSC over a 
wifi network.

> I have several options to do this. I ask you if they are possibles and how 
> difficult are they... and the final decision owns to the customer. My skills 
> are: I know PureData and Python. So:
> 
> Using MobMuPlat (http://mobmuplat.com/ )
> 
> I know it is not a framework. I would make a PureData patch and the MobMuPlat 
> interface. My customer would tell their customers to download MobMuPlat 
> (Android: 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iglesiaintermedia.mobmuplat 
> ,
>  iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/ar/app/mobmuplat/id597679399?mt=8 
> ) and give them 
> the file that I build.
> 
> Pros:
> - It's the easiest-way.
> - MobMuPlat is already in Google Market and iTunes.
> 
> Contras:
> - It is not a standalone app, as they would like.
> 
> Doubt (and it's important):
> - Could libpd send messages to serial port? There's [comport], but it is an 
> external. Is it already compiled for Android/iOS?

No serial port access. Comport will not work and MobMuPlat would beed to be 
rebuilt to include it anyway.
> Using Kivy (http://kivy.org )
> 
> This is a more difficult option. It uses Python to make the app. And there's 
> Kivy/audiostream (https://github.com/kivy/audiostream 
> ) that gives the phone a access to the 
> speaker and mic. In its example/ folder, there are puredata examples. 
> Obviously, using libpd.
> 
> Pros:
> - I would also make the patch in PureData.
> - It would make a standalone app (with own name, splash screen, etc).
> - It would works i

Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Robert Esler]

Hi Dan,
  I may not entirely understand your app’s functioning, especially the “device” 
portion.  However, have you looked at hybrid app libraries such as Ionic, or 
Cordova? They also have plugins that deal with audio via the HTML5 standard 
which may be all you need. There are also Cordova plugins for Bluetooth serial 
communication. 
  A few years ago I created a Cordova Pd plugin that I never ended up using 
because the project got canceled but I’d be happy to share it with you if you 
plan to go in the Cordova direction.  

  That being said bundling MobuPlat or PdDroid party could be an easier 
solution. I haven’t tried it.  

  But in my opinion as someone who has used Cordova/Ionic as well as Android 
API and iOS API to build apps, using the native languages to each respective 
device has always been more reliable, easier to debug and faster performance 
than Ionic or Cordova when dealing with audio, especially libpd.  
Java/Obj-C/Swift are not terribly difficult to learn if you are familiar with 
another programming language.

 My two cents.  

Good luck. 
-Rob

-
Robert Esler
Co-Director
urbanSTEW
3116 S. Mill Ave
#310
Tempe, AZ
480-306-6458
858-699-4160 (cell)
rob...@urbanstew.org


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Re: [PD] Needing to build an Android/iOS application.

[Daniel Iglesia]

Hi Mario

(Caveat: I'm the developer of MobMuPlat)

What does "send the file, by Bluetooth through the serial port" mean?
Bluetooth is a wireless protocol, serial port usually implies the hardware
port on the device. Do you mean a separate piece of hardware that is
connected to the phone/tablet? Or sending data via a socket to another
software process/app on the device that handles Bluetooth communication?

If the former: Serial output (to another device) is not supported on mobile
OSes with [comport]. And it's not really feasible on iOS (which controls
access, and only allows some standard protocols: MIDI, USB audio, etc) if
you want to put it on the app store. Adding serial i/o on MobMuPlat for
Android is on my eventual to-do list (e.g. to interact with an Arduino or
other board), but it will have to be written at the native app level, not
using PD objects. (e.g. you'd send serial data to a [send toSystem] within
the PD patch).

Regarding packaging MobMuPlat/PdParty as a standalone application: it is
technologically straightforward since they are open source , you'd have to
hack a few lines and re-build the app and sign it. The license for
MobMuPlat allows it, I'm assuming that PdParty/PdDroidParty does as well
but you'd have to check that. See my notes at the very last post here:
https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/running-max-map-on-a-tablet/.

Dan

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Mario Mey  wrote:

> Hi, there. I would appreciate so much your help for me to decide if I will
> accept a job and how to go on with it.
>
> I have a customer who needs an Android/iOS app that they will give to his
> customer who buys them a "device" (this customer of mine is not a
> multimillonaire company. It's far away from being like that)
>
> The app would be something like the mockup.png attached and will do
> something like this:
>
> First instance:
>
> - It opens a wav/mp3 (max: 1 hour).
> - You will see the soundwave and will can make zoom in/out to be precise
> (if with gestures, much better).
> - You will can play/pause/stop the audio from any place in the timeline.
> - You set up to 256 markers/labels in the timeline.
> - When you click/tap a marker/label, a new window appears to modify its
> information (time/color/type/etc).
> - It will convert each mark to a 6 bytes group.
> - It save/load files with all this markers (in binary).
> - It will send this file, by Bluetooth through the serial port, to the
> "device".
>
> Second instance:
>
> - The app will start playing the wav/mp3 file.
> - It will send (by Bluetooth) the "start" command to the device.
> - (The device starts its timer and already has the sequence file).
> - For a perfect syncrhonizing, every second, the app will send the actual
> time (by Bluetooth).
>
> I have several options to do this. I ask you if they are possibles and how
> difficult are they... and the final decision owns to the customer. My
> skills are: I know PureData and Python. So:
>
> Using MobMuPlat (http://mobmuplat.com/)
> I know it is not a framework. I would make a PureData patch and the
> MobMuPlat interface. My customer would tell their customers to download
> MobMuPlat (Android:
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iglesiaintermedia.mobmuplat,
> iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/ar/app/mobmuplat/id597679399?mt=8) and give
> them the file that I build.
>
> Pros:
> - It's the easiest-way.
> - MobMuPlat is already in Google Market and iTunes.
>
> Contras:
> - It is not a standalone app, as they would like.
>
> Doubt (*and it's important*):
> - Could libpd send messages to serial port? There's [comport], but it is
> an external. Is it already compiled for Android/iOS?
>
> Using Kivy (http://kivy.org)
>
> This is a more difficult option. It uses Python to make the app. And
> there's Kivy/audiostream (https://github.com/kivy/audiostream) that gives
> the phone a access to the speaker and mic. In its example/ folder, there
> are puredata examples. Obviously, using libpd.
>
> Pros:
> - I would also make the patch in PureData.
> - It would make a standalone app (with own name, splash screen, etc).
> - It would works in Android, iOS, Windows, Linux, OSX.
>
> Contras:
> - I've never used Kivy.
> - I've never used any framework.
> - I've never used libpd.
> - I should build almost from scratch an application.
> - I should compile for most Android and iOS versions...
> - The difficulty of uploading an app to Google Market and iTunes.
> Using OpenFrameWorks (http://openframeworks.cc/)
>
> Well... I don't know coding C++. I know that this would be the best
> framework to do something like this... but it's furthest away from me.
> There's ofxPd (https://github.com/danomatika/ofxPd).
> Using PdDroidParty and PdParty
>
> Now, I'm seeing their webpages/githubs. I didn't think in this
> possibility... Could it become one more?
>
> Pros:
> - Another easiest way.
> - It could compile a standalone app (???)
>
> Contras:
> - As other frameworks: What about compiling for most Android and iO