Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Ingo]

> I have nothing much to say, but it appears that there has been some idea
recently that the "CPU" is a prime culprit if things don't work.
>
> I don't think so (esp if it boils down to a difference between AMD and
Intel, which are virtually the same for all things Pd does).
>
> A much more interesting difference would be the version of Pd and OS.
>
> If you do think the CPU is to blame, it would also help to specify the
exact CPU model (there's a difference between a good old i386 CPU from Intel
> and a Pentium III, but less so between modern Intel and AMD CPUs)
>
> That's not to say that the CPU information isn't important when hunting
down bugs.
>
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes



I have 5 different AMD computer hardware versions from the lat 12 years
until now.
I'm running Debian 9.5 with Pd 0.49 on all of them. As a matter of fact I
use dd copies of the same drive.
I'm only loading a few hardware specific  files differently - like e.g.
/etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf and /var/lib/alsa/asound state to get sound.

All testing has been done with the same system drive (or copy thereof) and
the same Pd software that is compatible in almost all cases.

There is e. g. no way to use xrandr "panning" on any of the AMD boards that
works flawlessly on Intel and ARM.
xrandr itself works fine for changing the screen size but not for panning.
AMD processors ignore commands which include  --panning.

I cannot find any information from Google on the internet about the
different behavior of these processors in terms of xrandr.
One person that I found after quite some time had the same issue wth AMD /
Intel on a forum and got no answer.

I was surprised that [pmenu] opens large dropdown menus within the screen on
AMD while they are opening directly on the mouse pointer on Intel or ARM.
Therefore on the latter two platforma the visibility might be incomplete.

While many things are identical on the Intel machines and AMD machines
certain things do behave differently.
All of my AMD computers crashed immediately when starting my patch with a
Gem created startup image.
I tried this on 5 different AMD computer hardwares.
There was no problem when doing the same thing on an Intel board with the
same system drive.
Even the Raspberry Pi 4 (which runs obviously on a different operating
system) had no issues with the code.

So these hardware platforms are definitely really close to each other but as
far as I can tell they are not identical.

Ingo


-Original Message-
From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of IOhannes m
zmölnig
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2023 9:29 AM
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to
the Pd window

Am 15. April 2023 18:24:32 MESZ schrieb Ingo :
>
> On [pmenu] this seems to work on AMD machines it but does not work on
Intel or
Arm units.

I have nothing much to say, but it appears that there has been some idea
recently that the "CPU" is a prime culprit if things don't work.

I don't think so (esp if it boils down to a difference between AMD and
Intel, which are virtually the same for all things Pd does).

A much more interesting difference would be the version of Pd and OS.

If you do think the CPU is to blame, it would also help to specify the exact
CPU model (there's a difference between a good old i386 CPU from Intel and a
Pentium III, but less so between modern Intel and AMD CPUs)

That's not to say that the CPU information isn't important when hunting down
bugs.

mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Ingo]

Thanks, Dan!

 

I'll try to find something in the source code.

 

Although I can't really read or write these source codes since I have
absolutely no programming background except for Pd itself.

 

.pdwindow.text doesn't seem to be a top level window so I get error messages
when trying to do anything with it.

I tried other options that were mentioned in the source code without
success.

 

I have been going through pretty much all error messages (that makes sense
to me) from [hcs/sys_gui] when entering wrong commands on purpose.

None of those mentions "font" as an option.

 

On the Tcl/Tk font manual I can find some information but I have no idea how
to put things in a format to use it with [hcs/sys_gui] from within Pd.

https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl/TkCmd/font.html

 

Thanks anyway!

Ingo

 

 

From: Dan Wilcox [mailto:danomat...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2023 1:22 AM
To: Ingo
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to
the Pd window

 

"Use the source, Luke."

 

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/tcl/pdwindow.tcl#L451

 

The pd window text console is .pdwindow.text. You can send the -font command
to it in TCL: https://tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/options.htm#M-font

 

As for "internal Pd message" I don't believe there is one in this case as
the core doesn't send setup info on this directly to the GUI like it does
for the patch window canvases. This is why you didn't get a response yet
with the exact answer to your request: I don't believe there is one. What
you can do is use one of the GUI plugins and/or external objects which
allows you to send TCL to the GUI directly.





On Apr 15, 2023, at 9:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at>  wrote:

 

It would have been nice to simply find out the name of the Pd console for 
sending internal Pd messages until I get done with all of it.
Until then the software is probably not going to be usable with small
screens 
for a while. Oh well . . .
(My users don't have access to the regular Pd gui - it's a hardware box with
a 
dedicated user interface for non-programmers.)

Ingo

 



Dan Wilcox

@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> 

danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com> 

robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com> 

 

 

 

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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Am 15. April 2023 18:24:32 MESZ schrieb Ingo :
>
> On [pmenu] this seems to work on AMD machines it but does not work on Intel 
> or 
Arm units.

I have nothing much to say, but it appears that there has been some idea 
recently that the "CPU" is a prime culprit if things don't work.

I don't think so (esp if it boils down to a difference between AMD and Intel, 
which are virtually the same for all things Pd does). 

A much more interesting difference would be the version of Pd and OS.

If you do think the CPU is to blame, it would also help to specify the exact 
CPU model (there's a difference between a good old i386 CPU from Intel and a 
Pentium III, but less so between modern Intel and AMD CPUs)

That's not to say that the CPU information isn't important when hunting down 
bugs.



mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Dan Wilcox]

"Use the source, Luke."

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/tcl/pdwindow.tcl#L451 


The pd window text console is .pdwindow.text. You can send the -font command to 
it in TCL: https://tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/options.htm#M-font 


As for "internal Pd message" I don't believe there is one in this case as the 
core doesn't send setup info on this directly to the GUI like it does for the 
patch window canvases. This is why you didn't get a response yet with the exact 
answer to your request: I don't believe there is one. What you can do is use 
one of the GUI plugins and/or external objects which allows you to send TCL to 
the GUI directly.

> On Apr 15, 2023, at 9:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> It would have been nice to simply find out the name of the Pd console for 
> sending internal Pd messages until I get done with all of it.
> Until then the software is probably not going to be usable with small screens 
> for a while. Oh well . . .
> (My users don't have access to the regular Pd gui - it's a hardware box with 
> a 
> dedicated user interface for non-programmers.)
> 
> Ingo


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Ingo]

Hi Roman,

after getting the [netpd-mutex] abstaction in place everything is working 
fine.
Cool!

I'll have to make a few changes for my usage though.

-  I need to have numbers and not symbols coming from the menu output.
   (menus like MIDI program banks will change when banks change or when 
presets are reprogrammed, changed or moved.
   It's complicated enough to get the menus updated reliably after bank 
changes or changes of the MIDI channel.)

-  the dropdown menus need to be local since I have quite a few of them in a 
single patch. So an outlet instead of a $0-send will most likely be required.
   Unless I come up with a simple strategy to let the menu-triggering part 
know the $0 value of each connected dropdown menu.
   Seems more complicated than adding an outlet - especially since my code is 
written for [pmenu] which does have an inlet and outlet.

-  I need multiple definable columns since displaying 128 MIDI programs needs 
4-5 columns to fit on the screen.
   I didn't see anything so far . . . (I might have missed a number of things 
so far, though.)

-  I'll probably have to synchronize the hight and width with the font size to 
have only a single number change instead of three.
   Since there is no font change option it looks like it should be 
predictable. The names are limited to 14 characters.

I'm not sure if placing large dropdown menus always on the screen to be fully 
visible has been taken care of.
On [pmenu] this seems to work on AMD machines it but does not work on Intel or 
Arm units.
On large menues the part on the right or bottom is often outside of the 
screen. The AMD machines always move the menu inside of the screen.
Unfortunately I'm using mostly Intel and Arm.


Since the [netpd-gui-dropdown] is an abstraction it shouldn't be a big issue 
unless I'll run into problems with the "data structures" part.
I have never used data structures so far. I guess this will be the time to 
start getting going with it . . .
I'm suspecting that implementing multiple settable columns could require 
messing with data structures.


It would have been nice to simply find out the name of the Pd console for 
sending internal Pd messages until I get done with all of it.
Until then the software is probably not going to be usable with small screens 
for a while. Oh well . . .
(My users don't have access to the regular Pd gui - it's a hardware box with a 
dedicated user interface for non-programmers.)

Ingo



-Original Message-
From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Roman Haefeli
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 8:43 PM
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to 
the Pd window

On Fri, 2023-04-14 at 17:39 +0200, Ingo wrote:

> I tried  the netpd-gui-dropdown . . .
> I installed netpd and the latest Pd vanilla.

Actually, you don't need a full netpd installation for [netpd-gui- dropdown] 
to work. I thought it is a standalone abstraction and forgot
about:

> except for [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

that is just another abstraction to make sure that at most one instance of 
[netpd-gui-dropdown] is active. [netpd-gui-dropdown] still works without it, 
but user experience can get messy if many overlapping dropdown are active.


> This has probably to do with the fact that I just created the help
> patch on the Desktop of my Windows machine where no externals are
> registered.

Of course - like with any other abstraction - you need to put it somewhere 
where your patch finds it. Or tell your patch where to find it with 
[declare -path ]

>
> Looks pretty good and configurable.
> However, I did not see how to get a value from clicking on a menu
> item.

There is no outlet, the communication works through a send/receive symbol 
specified by first argument.


[netpd-gui-dropdown $0.mydropdown]

[r $0.mydropdown]
|
[route selected]
|
[print] <- print what you selected with [netpd-gui-dropdown]


> Maybe it has to do with the missin [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

No.

> I could also not get any colors to change so far - only grey and black
> atm.

Send a message like 'select_box_color 800' to it. Please note that color 
values use data structures color encoding:
  800 = red
   80 = green
8 = blue


> I'll have to keep checking it out a bit further.

Also note, that when you increase the font size, you might need to increase 
the height as well, like

[fontsize 16, height 20(
|
[s $0.mydropdown]


Roman





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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Roman Haefeli]

On Fri, 2023-04-14 at 17:39 +0200, Ingo wrote:

> I tried  the netpd-gui-dropdown . . .
> I installed netpd and the latest Pd vanilla.

Actually, you don't need a full netpd installation for [netpd-gui-
dropdown] to work. I thought it is a standalone abstraction and forgot
about:

> except for [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

that is just another abstraction to make sure that at most one instance
of [netpd-gui-dropdown] is active. [netpd-gui-dropdown] still works
without it, but user experience can get messy if many overlapping
dropdown are active. 


> This has probably to do with the fact that I just created the help
> patch on 
> the Desktop of my Windows machine where no externals are registered.

Of course - like with any other abstraction - you need to put it
somewhere where your patch finds it. Or tell your patch where to find
it with [declare -path ]

> 
> Looks pretty good and configurable.
> However, I did not see how to get a value from clicking on a menu
> item.

There is no outlet, the communication works through a send/receive
symbol specified by first argument.


[netpd-gui-dropdown $0.mydropdown]

[r $0.mydropdown]
|
[route selected]
|
[print] <- print what you selected with [netpd-gui-dropdown]


> Maybe it has to do with the missin [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

No.

> I could also not get any colors to change so far - only grey and
> black atm.

Send a message like 'select_box_color 800' to it. Please note that
color values use data structures color encoding:
  800 = red
   80 = green
8 = blue


> I'll have to keep checking it out a bit further.

Also note, that when you increase the font size, you might need to
increase the height as well, like

[fontsize 16, height 20(
|
[s $0.mydropdown]


Roman


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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Ingo]

Hi Roman,

I tried  the netpd-gui-dropdown . . .
I installed netpd and the latest Pd vanilla.

The first time I tried it didn't create at all.
Redownloaded today and it did create - except for [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

This has probably to do with the fact that I just created the help patch on 
the Desktop of my Windows machine where no externals are registered.

Looks pretty good and configurable.
However, I did not see how to get a value from clicking on a menu item.
Maybe it has to do with the missin [netpd-mutex MXDROPDOWN].

I could also not get any colors to change so far - only grey and black atm.
I'll have to keep checking it out a bit further.

It would definitely need a re-implementation of my current dropdown menus and 
would take some time once I have it running the way I need it.


BTW, netpd looks really interesting!
I'll have to take another (closer) look at it as soon as I have a bit more 
time.

Thanks, Roman, for pointing me at this!
Ingo



-Original Message-
From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Roman Haefeli
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 4:05 PM
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to 
the Pd window

On Fri, 2023-04-14 at 15:47 +0200, Ingo wrote:
>
> [pmenu] seems to use the size of the console font.
> So by changing this with an internal Pd message I could change my
> [pmenu] font size on the fly.

Did you try the vanilla drop-down abstraction with configurable font size I 
posted some days ago?

https://github.com/reduzent/netpd/blob/main/includes/netpd-gui-dropdown.pd
https://github.com/reduzent/netpd/blob/main/includes/netpd-gui-dropdown-help.pd


Roman





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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Roman Haefeli]

On Fri, 2023-04-14 at 15:47 +0200, Ingo wrote:
> 
> [pmenu] seems to use the size of the console font.
> So by changing this with an internal Pd message I could change my
> [pmenu]
> font size on the fly.

Did you try the vanilla drop-down abstraction with configurable font
size I posted some days ago?

https://github.com/reduzent/netpd/blob/main/includes/netpd-gui-dropdown.pd
https://github.com/reduzent/netpd/blob/main/includes/netpd-gui-dropdown-help.pd


Roman


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Re: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages? - sending to the Pd window

[Ingo]

Well, I did find a simple message that changes the fonts on single windows.
[; pd-mywindow.pd font 16 100 100( works perfectly on normal patch windows.

However, I need to change to font of the Pd console.
Neither "pd-." nor "pd-.pdwindow" are working.

What is the name of the pd console window?
How can I send messages to the Pd window?

Thanks!
Ingo



-Original Message-
From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Ingo
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 1:19 PM
To: 'Pd-list'
Subject: [PD] Pd complete listing of internal Pd messages?

Hi,

does anybody know where I can find an relatively complete listing of the
internal Pd messages?

I'm still struggling with changing the font size of the Pd console with a
message.

[pmenu] seems to use the size of the console font.
So by changing this with an internal Pd message I could change my [pmenu]
font size on the fly.

Thanks!
Ingo





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