Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Thanks for the update, Dan!

 

Ingo

 

From: Dan Wilcox [mailto:danomat...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 3:14 PM
To: Ingo; Alexandre Torres Porres
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

Howdy all,

 

I did give up for a while. The discussion is here:

 

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/897

 

I still have the relevant code but there was simply too much to do back then
and I had to pull back and put it on the back burner. It's still something I
think should be working in Pd, but maybe restricted to *read* only as a
start instead of me trying to implement full write access.

 

My first focus is to get the sound file updates into a Pd release as we need
CAF and AIFC support for a major project at work:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/855

 

Once that is in, say Pd 0.52, then I can refactor the previous meta read
code, otherwise there is no-one stopping someone from writing an external
using something like libsndfile to poop out metadata

 

On Nov 9, 2020, at 1:28 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at>  wrote:

 

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:15:15 +0100
From: "Ingo" < <mailto:i...@miamiwave.com> i...@miamiwave.com>
To: "'Alexandre Torres Porres'" < <mailto:por...@gmail.com>
por...@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Pd-List'" < <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
Message-ID: < <mailto:01d6b691$fbb7acc0$f3270640$@miamiwave.com>
01d6b691$fbb7acc0$f3270640$@miamiwave.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dan Wilcox was working in the ability of [soundfiler] to read the loop point
within Pd.

In Pd 0.51.1 there was still no change concerning sample loop points -
unless it's not documented in the help file.



Reading and writing loop points outside of Pd is no problem. I've been doing
this for more that 30 years.



However, I need to be able to automatically read loop points within Pd when
unknown samples are being loaded.

So far I had to get the loop points in other softwares and write lists for
Pd to be able to handle them.

This is rather tedious and also prone for errors. One little typo and you
get clicks!



Especially this won't work for simply loading new sample into an existing Pd
patch by other users.



I hope Dan didn't give up on ths . . .



Ingo

 



Dan Wilcox

@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> 

danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com> 

robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com> 

 

 

 

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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

I did give up for a while. The discussion is here:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/897 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/897>

I still have the relevant code but there was simply too much to do back then 
and I had to pull back and put it on the back burner. It's still something I 
think should be working in Pd, but maybe restricted to *read* only as a start 
instead of me trying to implement full write access.

My first focus is to get the sound file updates into a Pd release as we need 
CAF and AIFC support for a major project at work: 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/855 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/855>

Once that is in, say Pd 0.52, then I can refactor the previous meta read code, 
otherwise there is no-one stopping someone from writing an external using 
something like libsndfile to poop out metadata

> On Nov 9, 2020, at 1:28 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:15:15 +0100
> From: "Ingo" mailto:i...@miamiwave.com>>
> To: "'Alexandre Torres Porres'" mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: "'Pd-List'" mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
> Message-ID: <01d6b691$fbb7acc0$f3270640$@miamiwave.com 
> <mailto:01d6b691$fbb7acc0$f3270640$@miamiwave.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dan Wilcox was working in the ability of [soundfiler] to read the loop point 
> within Pd.
> 
> In Pd 0.51.1 there was still no change concerning sample loop points - unless 
> it's not documented in the help file.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading and writing loop points outside of Pd is no problem. I've been doing 
> this for more that 30 years.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I need to be able to automatically read loop points within Pd when 
> unknown samples are being loaded.
> 
> So far I had to get the loop points in other softwares and write lists for Pd 
> to be able to handle them.
> 
> This is rather tedious and also prone for errors. One little typo and you get 
> clicks!
> 
> 
> 
> Especially this won't work for simply loading new sample into an existing Pd 
> patch by other users.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope Dan didn't give up on ths . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Ingo


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Dan Wilcox was working in the ability of [soundfiler] to read the loop point 
within Pd.

In Pd 0.51.1 there was still no change concerning sample loop points - unless 
it's not documented in the help file.

 

Reading and writing loop points outside of Pd is no problem. I've been doing 
this for more that 30 years.

 

However, I need to be able to automatically read loop points within Pd when 
unknown samples are being loaded.

So far I had to get the loop points in other softwares and write lists for Pd 
to be able to handle them.

This is rather tedious and also prone for errors. One little typo and you get 
clicks!

 

Especially this won't work for simply loading new sample into an existing Pd 
patch by other users.

 

I hope Dan didn't give up on ths . . .

 

Ingo

 

 

 

From: Alexandre Torres Porres [mailto:por...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 9:13 PM
To: Ingo
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

Ingo, did you have any luck on this throughout the year?

 

I'm also curious on this. Anyway, I had another thread here and someone 
suggested http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ that seems to read loop 
points - but I can't test it because it's linux

 

Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 05:39, Ingo mailto:i...@miamiwave.com> > escreveu:

There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format 
conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop points 
as well.


> I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
> (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
> There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops. Once a
> file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
> Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
> I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into SoundForge and 
> it
> recognizes the loops.
> (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with some
> samplers.)
>
> It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers 
> (software
> or hardware) know about it but noone else.
> I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
> loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
>
> Ingo
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at 
> > <mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at> ] On Behalf Of Roman
> > Haefeli
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
> > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> 
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
> >
> > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
> > > get loop points from these files ;)
> >
> > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
> > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention
> > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention
> > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file.
> > Some description of the format describe the ability to store anything
> > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
> > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
> > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
> > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you know
> how it is stored.
> >
> >
> > Roman





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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Actually... this was more on the intention to make a patch that plays
looped samples with looping points and more influenced by the fact that MAX
has info~ which does report looping points. So I'm interested in the idea
of also having this running in a patch and maybe have an external that
gives us the information (or even vanilla's soundfiler). The thing is that
now that I'm trying to make a patch that does loop, I'm searching for such
samples out there with looping points, and I'm not really finding anything
so I could test by checking if audacity shows me the looping points.

Does anyone know where I can find a nice pack with samples that have a
middle looped section?

thanks

Em dom., 8 de nov. de 2020 às 20:30, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> cool, but how to extract the loop points information as samples from
> audacity?
> thanks
>
> Em dom., 8 de nov. de 2020 às 17:42, adam johnson 
> escreveu:
>
>> Cue and loop points are saved in the metadata, the appropriate chunks are
>> shown here
>> https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-format#cue
>> . Audacity will run on most anything and can read loop points.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:16 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ingo, did you have any luck on this throughout the year?
>>>
>>> I'm also curious on this. Anyway, I had another thread here and someone
>>> suggested http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ that seems to read
>>> loop points - but I can't test it because it's linux
>>>
>>> Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 05:39, Ingo 
>>> escreveu:
>>>
>>>> There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format
>>>> conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop
>>>> points
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
>>>> > (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
>>>> > There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops.
>>>> Once a
>>>> > file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
>>>> > Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
>>>> > I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into
>>>> SoundForge and
>>>> > it
>>>> > recognizes the loops.
>>>> > (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work
>>>> with some
>>>> > samplers.)
>>>> >
>>>> > It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers
>>>> > (software
>>>> > or hardware) know about it but noone else.
>>>> > I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
>>>> > loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ingo
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > > -Original Message-
>>>> > > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of
>>>> Roman
>>>> > > Haefeli
>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
>>>> > > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>>> > > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
>>>> > > > get loop points from these files ;)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
>>>> > > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't
>>>> mention
>>>> > > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a
>>>> convention
>>>> > > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with
>>>> file.
>>>> > > Some description of the format describe the ability to store
>>>> anything
>>>> > > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
>>>> > > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
>>>> > > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult
>>>> to
>>>> > > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once
>>>> you know
>>>> > how it is stored.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Roman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

cool, but how to extract the loop points information as samples from
audacity?
thanks

Em dom., 8 de nov. de 2020 às 17:42, adam johnson 
escreveu:

> Cue and loop points are saved in the metadata, the appropriate chunks are
> shown here
> https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-format#cue
> . Audacity will run on most anything and can read loop points.
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:16 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
> wrote:
>
>> Ingo, did you have any luck on this throughout the year?
>>
>> I'm also curious on this. Anyway, I had another thread here and someone
>> suggested http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ that seems to read
>> loop points - but I can't test it because it's linux
>>
>> Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 05:39, Ingo  escreveu:
>>
>>> There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format
>>> conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop
>>> points
>>> as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
>>> > (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
>>> > There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops.
>>> Once a
>>> > file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
>>> > Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
>>> > I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into
>>> SoundForge and
>>> > it
>>> > recognizes the loops.
>>> > (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with
>>> some
>>> > samplers.)
>>> >
>>> > It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers
>>> > (software
>>> > or hardware) know about it but noone else.
>>> > I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
>>> > loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
>>> >
>>> > Ingo
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > -Original Message-
>>> > > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of
>>> Roman
>>> > > Haefeli
>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
>>> > > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>> > > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
>>> > > > get loop points from these files ;)
>>> > >
>>> > > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
>>> > > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't
>>> mention
>>> > > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention
>>> > > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file.
>>> > > Some description of the format describe the ability to store anything
>>> > > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
>>> > > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
>>> > > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult
>>> to
>>> > > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you
>>> know
>>> > how it is stored.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Roman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[adam johnson]

Cue and loop points are saved in the metadata, the appropriate chunks are
shown here
https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-format#cue
. Audacity will run on most anything and can read loop points.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:16 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> Ingo, did you have any luck on this throughout the year?
>
> I'm also curious on this. Anyway, I had another thread here and someone
> suggested http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ that seems to read loop
> points - but I can't test it because it's linux
>
> Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 05:39, Ingo  escreveu:
>
>> There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format
>> conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop
>> points
>> as well.
>>
>>
>> > I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
>> > (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
>> > There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops.
>> Once a
>> > file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
>> > Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
>> > I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into SoundForge
>> and
>> > it
>> > recognizes the loops.
>> > (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with
>> some
>> > samplers.)
>> >
>> > It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers
>> > (software
>> > or hardware) know about it but noone else.
>> > I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
>> > loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
>> >
>> > Ingo
>> >
>> >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of
>> Roman
>> > > Haefeli
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
>> > > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> > > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
>> > > > get loop points from these files ;)
>> > >
>> > > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
>> > > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention
>> > > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention
>> > > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file.
>> > > Some description of the format describe the ability to store anything
>> > > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
>> > > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
>> > > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
>> > > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you
>> know
>> > how it is stored.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Roman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Ingo, did you have any luck on this throughout the year?

I'm also curious on this. Anyway, I had another thread here and someone
suggested http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ that seems to read loop
points - but I can't test it because it's linux

Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 05:39, Ingo  escreveu:

> There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format
> conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop
> points
> as well.
>
>
> > I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
> > (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
> > There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops.
> Once a
> > file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
> > Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
> > I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into SoundForge
> and
> > it
> > recognizes the loops.
> > (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with
> some
> > samplers.)
> >
> > It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers
> > (software
> > or hardware) know about it but noone else.
> > I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
> > loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
> >
> > Ingo
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Roman
> > > Haefeli
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
> > > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
> > > > get loop points from these files ;)
> > >
> > > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
> > > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention
> > > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention
> > > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file.
> > > Some description of the format describe the ability to store anything
> > > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
> > > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
> > > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
> > > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you
> know
> > how it is stored.
> > >
> > >
> > > Roman
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Dan Wilcox]

Yeah, one of each. I'm following the file format specifications but I also need 
real files to read & compare my own output with.

I've been so deep in this soundfile overhaul that I might as well see if we can 
add this.

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ingo  wrote:
> 
> Dan, do you mean a simple soundfile that has loop markers embedded? I have 
> tons of them.
> Do you need .wav or .aiff or both? Mine are usually .wav but I can convert it 
> to .aiff as well.
>  
> I'll have to check on my old computer first to make sure whether the files 
> header contain the loops.
>  
> Ingo


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Dan, do you mean a simple soundfile that has loop markers embedded? I have tons 
of them.

Do you need .wav or .aiff or both? Mine are usually .wav but I can convert it 
to .aiff as well.

 

I'll have to check on my old computer first to make sure whether the files 
header contain the loops.

 

Ingo

 

 

From: Dan Wilcox [mailto:danomat...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:47 PM
To: Ingo
Cc: José de Abreu; Giulio Moro; k.s.matheus...@notam02.no; Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

Can someone send me example files with encoding loop positions? I started with 
demo soundfile meta data reading/writing but now I need some sample files to 
work with. I saved a couple via Logic Pro X but the region info is saved as 
simple markers, not using instrument or sampler chunks.





On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Ingo mailto:i...@miamiwave.com> > wrote:

 

How would loopautitioneer automatically reed the loop points from within Pd and 
transfer them?

I can reed the loop points externally with no problem. My problem is to set the 
loop points automatically from within Pd.

 

Ingo

 

From: José de Abreu [mailto:abreubace...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Giulio Moro
Cc: k.s.matheus...@notam02.no <mailto:k.s.matheus...@notam02.no> ; Ingo; Dan 
Wilcox; Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

hello all, i don't know if it is relevant, but my simple google search returned 
this software too:

 

 <http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/> 
http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/

 

LoopAuditioneer is a software for evaluating, creating and manipulating loops 
and cues existing in wav file metadata. It's envisionaged to be useful for 
sample production for virtual pipe organs, like for instance  
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/ourorgan/> GrandOrgue software.


SOURCE CODE:


Is available on  <http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/> 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/ by SVN.

 

Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 08:15, Giulio Moro via Pd-list < 
<mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> pd-list@lists.iem.at> escreveu:

libsndfile also can extract loop points from a variety of formats. The relevant 
code for wav is here  
<https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163> 
https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163

Kjetil Matheussen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
> < <mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com> k.s.matheus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo < <mailto:i...@miamiwave.com> 
>> i...@miamiwave.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Dan!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point 
>>> Chunk" in the WAV format.
>>>
>>> This gives me a further idea for searching on.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
> 
> Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't 
> remember...
> 
> But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
>  
> <https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253>
>  
> https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253
> 
> First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
> loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.
> 
> 
> 
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Dan Wilcox

@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> 

danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com> 

robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com> 

 

 

 

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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Dan Wilcox]

Can someone send me example files with encoding loop positions? I started with 
demo soundfile meta data reading/writing but now I need some sample files to 
work with. I saved a couple via Logic Pro X but the region info is saved as 
simple markers, not using instrument or sampler chunks.

> On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Ingo  wrote:
> 
> How would loopautitioneer automatically reed the loop points from within Pd 
> and transfer them?
> I can reed the loop points externally with no problem. My problem is to set 
> the loop points automatically from within Pd.
>  
> Ingo
>  
> From: José de Abreu [mailto:abreubace...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 3:08 PM
> To: Giulio Moro
> Cc: k.s.matheus...@notam02.no; Ingo; Dan Wilcox; Pd-List
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>  
> hello all, i don't know if it is relevant, but my simple google search 
> returned this software too:
>  
> http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/ 
> <http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/>
>  
> LoopAuditioneer is a software for evaluating, creating and manipulating loops 
> and cues existing in wav file metadata. It's envisionaged to be useful for 
> sample production for virtual pipe organs, like for instance GrandOrgue 
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/ourorgan/> software.
> 
> SOURCE CODE:
> 
> 
> Is available on http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/ 
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/> by SVN.
>  
> Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 08:15, Giulio Moro via Pd-list 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> escreveu:
>> libsndfile also can extract loop points from a variety of formats. The 
>> relevant code for wav is here 
>> https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163 
>> <https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163>
>> 
>> Kjetil Matheussen wrote:
>> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
>> > mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo > >> <mailto:i...@miamiwave.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks, Dan!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue 
>> >>> Point Chunk" in the WAV format.
>> >>>
>> >>> This gives me a further idea for searching on.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
>> > 
>> > Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't 
>> > remember...
>> > 
>> > But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
>> > https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253
>> >  
>> > <https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253>
>> > 
>> > First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
>> > loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > Pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at> mailing list
>> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

How would loopautitioneer automatically reed the loop points from within Pd and 
transfer them?

I can reed the loop points externally with no problem. My problem is to set the 
loop points automatically from within Pd.

 

Ingo

 

From: José de Abreu [mailto:abreubace...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Giulio Moro
Cc: k.s.matheus...@notam02.no; Ingo; Dan Wilcox; Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

hello all, i don't know if it is relevant, but my simple google search returned 
this software too:

 

http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/

 

LoopAuditioneer is a software for evaluating, creating and manipulating loops 
and cues existing in wav file metadata. It's envisionaged to be useful for 
sample production for virtual pipe organs, like for instance GrandOrgue 
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/ourorgan/>  software.


SOURCE CODE:


Is available on http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/ by SVN.

 

Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 08:15, Giulio Moro via Pd-list 
mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> > escreveu:

libsndfile also can extract loop points from a variety of formats. The relevant 
code for wav is here 
https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163

Kjetil Matheussen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
> mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo > <mailto:i...@miamiwave.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Dan!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point 
>>> Chunk" in the WAV format.
>>>
>>> This gives me a further idea for searching on.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
> 
> Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't 
> remember...
> 
> But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
> https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253
> 
> First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
> loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[José de Abreu]

hello all, i don't know if it is relevant, but my simple google search
returned this software too:

http://loopauditioneer.sourceforge.net/

LoopAuditioneer is a software for evaluating, creating and manipulating
loops and cues existing in wav file metadata. It's envisionaged to be
useful for sample production for virtual pipe organs, like for instance
GrandOrgue  software.

SOURCE CODE:


Is available on http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/ by SVN.

Em qua., 12 de fev. de 2020 às 08:15, Giulio Moro via Pd-list <
pd-list@lists.iem.at> escreveu:

> libsndfile also can extract loop points from a variety of formats. The
> relevant code for wav is here
> https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163
>
> Kjetil Matheussen wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Dan!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue
> Point Chunk" in the WAV format.
> >>>
> >>> This gives me a further idea for searching on.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
> >
> > Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't
> remember...
> >
> > But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
> >
> https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253
> >
> > First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
> > loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Giulio Moro via Pd-list]

libsndfile also can extract loop points from a variety of formats. The relevant 
code for wav is here 
https://github.com/erikd/libsndfile/blob/master/src/wav.c#L1140-L1163

Kjetil Matheussen wrote:

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
 wrote:


On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:


Thanks, Dan!



They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point 
Chunk" in the WAV format.

This gives me a further idea for searching on.




Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,


Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't remember...

But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253

First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Kjetil Matheussen]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:
>
> Thanks, Dan!
>
>
>
> They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point 
> Chunk" in the WAV format.
>
> This gives me a further idea for searching on.
>
>

Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
but they can also theoretically be placed in the "smpl" chunk:
https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-format#smpl



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Great!

> -Original Message-
> From: Kjetil Matheussen [mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 11:24 AM
> To: Ingo
> Cc: Dan Wilcox; Pd-List
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Dan!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue
> Point Chunk" in the WAV format.
> > >
> > > This gives me a further idea for searching on.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,
>
> Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't
> remember...
>
> But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
> https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugi
> n_wav_parse.c#L253
>
> First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't loop 
> data
> there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.





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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Thanks a lot, Kjetil!

That's the information that I have been looking for!

Ingo


> -Original Message-
> From: Kjetil Matheussen [mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 10:56 AM
> To: Ingo
> Cc: Dan Wilcox; Pd-List
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Dan!
> >
> >
> >
> > They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue
> Point Chunk" in the WAV format.
> >
> > This gives me a further idea for searching on.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues, but they
> can also theoretically be placed in the "smpl" chunk:
> https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-
> format#smpl





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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Kjetil Matheussen]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:56 AM Kjetil Matheussen
 wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ingo  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Dan!
> >
> >
> >
> > They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point 
> > Chunk" in the WAV format.
> >
> > This gives me a further idea for searching on.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, loops are usually defined as "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues,

Hmm, or maybe they are usually defined in the "smpl" chunk, I don't remember...

But here's the code to get loop data from a wav file in radium:
https://github.com/kmatheussen/radium/blob/master/audio/Sampler_plugin_wav_parse.c#L253

First it checks if there is a loop in the "smpl" chunk. If there isn't
loop data there, it checks for "Loop Start" and "Loop End" cues.



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Christof Ressi]

Great!

On 12.02.2020 09:31, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 12.02.20 01:21, Christof Ressi wrote:

To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other
compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add
such support as plugins.

totally.
i've been talking with dan about this, and we kind of came up with the
start of an "architecture" to allow other decoding/encoding backends.

to keep expectations low:
this mainly started to get rid of a lot of boiler-plate code in the
current implentation, and the "architecture" is currently only a struct
(so dan is probably loughing himself silly when i call it
"architecture"), and it only supports uncompressed formats, but that
could  very easily be extended.


fgamsdr
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Thanks, Dan!

 

They must be embedded in the "Marker Chunk" in AIFF and in the "Cue Point
Chunk" in the WAV format.

This gives me a further idea for searching on.

 

Of course it would be fantastic to have reading this information directly
implemented in the [soundfiler] object!

 

Ingo

 

 

From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Dan Wilcox
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 9:48 AM
To: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

 

I'm laughing myself silly/crying after wading through the details for almost
*one month* of full time work. It's a balance of updating an almost 20 year
old section of Pd *without* breaking what currently works while adding
required features.

 

If all y'all want updates/changes, you need to find a way to contribute
beyond list discussions.

 

I am able to focus on this right now as we use libpd for a major project at
work (which also supports infrastructure and guest artist works) and we have
legacy projects using 32+ channel AIFC and CAF files. We need to be able to
playback such files within libpd to support our historical repertoire. If we
had a need for MP3, I probably would have implemented that, but uncompressed
audio is easier to stream form disk as there is minimal conversion needed,
specially with so many channels. Before I even began this work, I proposed a
general architectural refactoring of the code base and have fixed a number
of bugs.

 

As for sample loop points, those are probably in the instrument / sampler
chunks in the AIFF, WAVE, and CAF file specs. Since I am flush with file
format knowledge at the moment, I will try implementing either a
[soundfiler] meta flag or 3rd outlet. I make no explicit promises.

 

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can either read the 30+ year
old official file format spec documentation or the file format overviews on
Wikipedia, for example AIFF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Interchange_File_Format

 

On Feb 12, 2020, at 9:31 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at>  wrote:

 

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:31:19 +0100
From: IOhannes m zmoelnig < <mailto:zmoel...@iem.at> zmoel...@iem.at>
To:  <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
Message-ID: < <mailto:a72428ac-1ab7-2e7e-d90d-c4f743502...@iem.at>
a72428ac-1ab7-2e7e-d90d-c4f743502...@iem.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 12.02.20 01:21, Christof Ressi wrote:



To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other
compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add
such support as plugins.


totally.
i've been talking with dan about this, and we kind of came up with the
start of an "architecture" to allow other decoding/encoding backends.

to keep expectations low:
this mainly started to get rid of a lot of boiler-plate code in the
current implentation, and the "architecture" is currently only a struct
(so dan is probably loughing himself silly when i call it
"architecture"), and it only supports uncompressed formats, but that
could  very easily be extended.


fgamsdr
IOhannes

 



Dan Wilcox

@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> 

danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com> 

robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com> 

 

 

 

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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Dan Wilcox]

I'm laughing myself silly/crying after wading through the details for almost 
*one month* of full time work. It's a balance of updating an almost 20 year old 
section of Pd *without* breaking what currently works while adding required 
features.

If all y'all want updates/changes, you need to find a way to contribute beyond 
list discussions.

I am able to focus on this right now as we use libpd for a major project at 
work (which also supports infrastructure and guest artist works) and we have 
legacy projects using 32+ channel AIFC and CAF files. We need to be able to 
playback such files within libpd to support our historical repertoire. If we 
had a need for MP3, I probably would have implemented that, but uncompressed 
audio is easier to stream form disk as there is minimal conversion needed, 
specially with so many channels. Before I even began this work, I proposed a 
general architectural refactoring of the code base and have fixed a number of 
bugs.

As for sample loop points, those are probably in the instrument / sampler 
chunks in the AIFF, WAVE, and CAF file specs. Since I am flush with file format 
knowledge at the moment, I will try implementing either a [soundfiler] meta 
flag or 3rd outlet. I make no explicit promises.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can either read the 30+ year old 
official file format spec documentation or the file format overviews on 
Wikipedia, for example AIFF: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Interchange_File_Format 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Interchange_File_Format>

> On Feb 12, 2020, at 9:31 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:31:19 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
> Message-ID:  <mailto:a72428ac-1ab7-2e7e-d90d-c4f743502...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On 12.02.20 01:21, Christof Ressi wrote:
>> To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other
>> compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add
>> such support as plugins.
> 
> totally.
> i've been talking with dan about this, and we kind of came up with the
> start of an "architecture" to allow other decoding/encoding backends.
> 
> to keep expectations low:
> this mainly started to get rid of a lot of boiler-plate code in the
> current implentation, and the "architecture" is currently only a struct
> (so dan is probably loughing himself silly when i call it
> "architecture"), and it only supports uncompressed formats, but that
> could  very easily be extended.
> 
> 
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

There are softwares like AwaveStudio that do nothing else but format 
conversion between different sampler formats that can handle the loop points 
as well.


> I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used
> (mainly) softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
> There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops. Once a
> file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one.
> Same thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
> I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into SoundForge and 
> it
> recognizes the loops.
> (There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with some
> samplers.)
>
> It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers 
> (software
> or hardware) know about it but noone else.
> I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the
> loops are stored in the file but they definitely are.
>
> Ingo
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Roman
> > Haefeli
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
> > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
> >
> > On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
> > > get loop points from these files ;)
> >
> > I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't
> > able to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention
> > any loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention
> > about how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file.
> > Some description of the format describe the ability to store anything
> > as metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
> > knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so
> > that people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
> > retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you know
> how it is stored.
> >
> >
> > Roman





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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

I have been working with hardware samplers since the 80ies and used (mainly) 
softwares like SoundForge or Wavelab for looping.
There was no extra file. All hardware samplers could read the loops. Once a 
file was looped with one sampler it would be looped with the next one. Same 
thing with modern software Samplers like Kontakt.
I can use a sample that I looped in Wavelab and load it into SoundForge and it 
recognizes the loops.
(There are options for multiple loops, though that might not work with some 
samplers.)

It can't be such a secret since over 30 years that all manufacturers (software 
or hardware) know about it but noone else.
I have been looking around but couldn't find any information where the loops 
are stored in the file but they definitely are.

Ingo


> -Original Message-
> From: Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] On Behalf Of Roman
> Haefeli
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 8:48 AM
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)
>
> On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to get
> > loop points from these files ;)
>
> I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't able to 
> find
> one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention any loop start- 
> and
> endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention about how to encode this
> into some sort of metadata stored with file. Some description of the format
> describe the ability to store anything as metdata. Personally, I never dealt
> with such files (at least not knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to
> provide such a file, so that people can a have a look at it. It might be not 
> that
> difficult to retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], 
> once
> you know how it is stored.
>
>
> Roman





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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 12.02.20 01:21, Christof Ressi wrote:
> To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other
> compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add
> such support as plugins.

totally.
i've been talking with dan about this, and we kind of came up with the
start of an "architecture" to allow other decoding/encoding backends.

to keep expectations low:
this mainly started to get rid of a lot of boiler-plate code in the
current implentation, and the "architecture" is currently only a struct
(so dan is probably loughing himself silly when i call it
"architecture"), and it only supports uncompressed formats, but that
could  very easily be extended.


fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 19:55 -0500, William Huston wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig 
> wrote:
> 
> > so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> > keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for
> > doing
> > the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> > so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from
> > scratch.
> > 
> > good luck.
> 
> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> What would you say are the core values of PD? 
> 
> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive. 
> Telling me what I "need to" do!!! 

While I agree with some of your points, I think you are overreacting.
IOhannes didn't tell you specifically what to do, but stated what needs
to be done for a format to be supported natively in Pd. It seems there
is some agreement among many members that additional dependencies
shouldn't be added frivolously. Pd runs on many different platforms and
environments, as  Pd and libpd. This is possible due to its minimal set
of dependencies. IOhannes derived his statement from that fact.

What is more important is that Pd supports externals and nobody will
stop you from loading or playing mp3 with externals. Let me mention the
famous [readanysf~] [1] that supports whatever format you can think of.
Obviously, it depends on quite a large-ish framework. 

Roman

[1] http://aug.ment.org/readanysf/




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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
> get loop points from these files ;) 

I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't able
to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention any
loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention about
how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file. Some
description of the format describe the ability to store anything as
metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so that
people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you
know how it is stored.
 

Roman


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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to get loop
points from these files ;) let's please go back to this thread's original
discussion (that is to say you can branch to another "MP3 support" thread
if desired), thanks!

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 18:03, Christof Ressi 
escreveu:

> @William
>
> > I understand there are licensing issues with
> > MP3 (esp. writing them)
> Licensing is not so much an issue anymore because the Fraunhofer patents
> expired in 2017, so OSS MP3 libraries like "lame" are now legal.
> > Even if it happens in an external which is easy
> > to find and load.
> As Hans already said, no one is opposing creating and using MP3
> externals (they already exist, BTW).
>
> Personally, I think that MP3 certainly has its use in audio production,
> but I also agree with IOhannes that Pd doesn't need *native* MP3
> support. The main reason is that Pd vanilla's design philosophy is to be
> as slim as possible with as little external dependencies as possible, to
> ensure that maintainance of the core doesn't become overwhelming.
>
> > Again, PD should be like Perl:
> > NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
> > Make it as flexible as possible.
> That's the entire point of Pd vanilla: have a stable core, but make it
> extensible. There are actually very few limitations on what you can do
> in Pd externals.
>
> Christof
>
> On 12.02.2020 02:26, hans w. koch wrote:
> > lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance
> for using mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with
> compressed formats requires decompression first (that this is done “behind
> the scenes” in other softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a
> computational overhead, which might it make look unattractive to some
> (including me e.g.).
> >
> > so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content
> delivery” codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no
> point read it as an attempt to block anything for anyone.
> > he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone
> would develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able
> to block it?
> > on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.
> >
> > best
> >
> > hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston  >:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> >> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> >> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> >> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> >>
> >> good luck.
> >>
> >> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> >> What would you say are the core values of PD?
> >>
> >> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
> >> Telling me what I "need to" do!!!
> >>
> >> One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
> >> Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as
> >>
> >> 1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or
> rigid limitations
> >>
> >> 2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and
> programming style,
> >> and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He
> relates it to
> >> looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the
> paths that people
> >> make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the
> sidewalks there.
> >>
> >> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> >> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
> >>
> >> Who said anything about a DJ setup?
> >> As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.
> >>
> >> Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?
> >>
> >> YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
> >> in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.
> >>
> >> But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
> >> by crippling PD to enforce them!
> >>
> >> The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
> >> in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
> >> any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.
> >>
> >> This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
> >> WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.
> >>
> >> This is ALWAYS the case!
> >>
> >> Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean
> that
> >> it is a high-quality sample.
> >>
> >> So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
> >> alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.
> >>
> >> Again, PD should be like Perl:
> >> NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
> >> Make it as flexible as possible.
> >>
> >> If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
> >> then lets make this possible.
> >>
> >> I understand there are 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Christof Ressi]

@William


I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them)
Licensing is not so much an issue anymore because the Fraunhofer patents 
expired in 2017, so OSS MP3 libraries like "lame" are now legal.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.
As Hans already said, no one is opposing creating and using MP3 
externals (they already exist, BTW).


Personally, I think that MP3 certainly has its use in audio production, 
but I also agree with IOhannes that Pd doesn't need *native* MP3 
support. The main reason is that Pd vanilla's design philosophy is to be 
as slim as possible with as little external dependencies as possible, to 
ensure that maintainance of the core doesn't become overwhelming.



Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.
That's the entire point of Pd vanilla: have a stable core, but make it 
extensible. There are actually very few limitations on what you can do 
in Pd externals.


Christof

On 12.02.2020 02:26, hans w. koch wrote:

lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance for using 
mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with compressed formats 
requires decompression first (that this is done “behind the scenes” in other 
softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a computational overhead, 
which might it make look unattractive to some (including me e.g.).

so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content delivery” 
codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no point read it as an 
attempt to block anything for anyone.
he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone would 
develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able to block 
it?
on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.

best

hans





Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston :


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.

What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
What would you say are the core values of PD?

Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
Telling me what I "need to" do!!!

One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as

1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid 
limitations

2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and programming 
style,
and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates it 
to
looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths that 
people
make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the sidewalks 
there.

to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.

Who said anything about a DJ setup?
As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.

Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?

YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.

But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
by crippling PD to enforce them!

The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.

This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.

This is ALWAYS the case!

Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean that
it is a high-quality sample.

So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.

Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.

If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
then lets make this possible.

I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
seem to have found a way to make it easy to
speak MP3 despite this limitation.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.

The answer to the question,
"Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
does not sound acceptable to me.

Thanks,
BH


--
William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
Binghamton NY

Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston






On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[hans w. koch]

lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance for using 
mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with compressed formats 
requires decompression first (that this is done “behind the scenes” in other 
softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a computational overhead, 
which might it make look unattractive to some (including me e.g.).

so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content delivery” 
codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no point read it 
as an attempt to block anything for anyone.
he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone would 
develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able to block 
it?
on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.

best

hans




> Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston :
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> What would you say are the core values of PD? 
> 
> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive. 
> Telling me what I "need to" do!!! 
> 
> One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl). 
> Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as
> 
> 1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid 
> limitations 
> 
> 2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and programming 
> style,
> and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates 
> it to 
> looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths that 
> people
> make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the sidewalks 
> there. 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
> 
> Who said anything about a DJ setup? 
> As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool. 
> 
> Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use? 
> 
> YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
> in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc. 
> 
> But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
> by crippling PD to enforce them!
> 
> The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
> in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
> any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD. 
> 
> This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
> WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source. 
> 
> This is ALWAYS the case! 
> 
> Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean that 
> it is a high-quality sample. 
> 
> So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
> alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me. 
> 
> Again, PD should be like Perl:
> NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS. 
> Make it as flexible as possible. 
> 
> If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs, 
> then lets make this possible. 
> 
> I understand there are licensing issues with
> MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
> seem to have found a way to make it easy to 
> speak MP3 despite this limitation. 
> 
> Even if it happens in an external which is easy 
> to find and load. 
> 
> The answer to the question,
> "Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
> being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
> does not sound acceptable to me. 
> 
> Thanks,
> BH
> 
> 
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
> 
> Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
> Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
> Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
> Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> > 
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
> 
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>

What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
What would you say are the core values of PD?

Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
Telling me what I "need to" do!!!

One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as

1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid
limitations

2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and
programming style,
and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates
it to
looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths
that people
make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the
sidewalks there.

to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.


Who said anything about a DJ setup?
As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.

Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?

YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  *FOR YOU!*
in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.

But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
by crippling PD to enforce them!

*The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format*
*in use today.  *It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.

This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.

This is ALWAYS the case!

Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean
that
it is a high-quality sample.

So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.

Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.

If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
then lets make this possible.

I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
seem to have found a way to make it easy to
speak MP3 despite this limitation.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.

The answer to the question,
"Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
does not sound acceptable to me.

Thanks,
BH


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On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> >
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
>
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
>
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>
>
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
> something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
> archiving format.
> which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
> supported.
> what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
> work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")
>
> gmsrda
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Christof Ressi]

so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.


It would be nice if Pd had an API to add codecs to [soundfiler], 
[readsf~] and [writesf~] as plugins. I think you did something like this 
for GEM (for video playback), right?



to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
MP3 is often "good enough", especially for experiments. When people want 
to try some analysis or processing on a bunch of tracks in their music 
library, they have to first convert their MP3s to WAVs, which is akward 
and takes up lots of disk space.


To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other 
compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add 
such support as plugins.


Christof

On 11.02.2020 23:06, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:

As long as we are talking about soundfiler,

It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read

any audio file type:

WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc

dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
which should make all this much simpler.

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.


to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
archiving format.
which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
supported.
what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")

gmsrda
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> any audio file type:
> 
> WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc

dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
which should make all this much simpler.

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.


to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
archiving format.
which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
supported.
what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")

gmsrda
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

As long as we are talking about soundfiler,

It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
any audio file type:

WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc



--
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*Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
Advocacy*
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 -- Twitter
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On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:45 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> This is something I hoped it could be implemented in Pd Vanilla, with
> [soundfiler] (which now gives you some more information on the loaded
> file). If that's never happening, that is something I also wanted to
> implement in my externals, but I need help figuring how to do it.
>
> Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 09:36, Ingo  escreveu:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information
>> of
>> wav samples.
>> I have not followed any further development since years.
>>
>> Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
>> samples by now?
>>
>> If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
>> something like [mrpeach/binfile]?
>>
>> I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
>> Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
>> the loop points would be or find any information on it.
>>
>> http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
>>
>> Any ideas?
>> Am I looking at the wrong file header type?
>>
>> Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
>> point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
>> However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
>> directly from the samples.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

This is something I hoped it could be implemented in Pd Vanilla, with
[soundfiler] (which now gives you some more information on the loaded
file). If that's never happening, that is something I also wanted to
implement in my externals, but I need help figuring how to do it.

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 09:36, Ingo  escreveu:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information
> of
> wav samples.
> I have not followed any further development since years.
>
> Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
> samples by now?
>
> If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
> something like [mrpeach/binfile]?
>
> I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
> Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
> the loop points would be or find any information on it.
>
> http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
>
> Any ideas?
> Am I looking at the wrong file header type?
>
> Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
> point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
> However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
> directly from the samples.
>
> Thanks!
> Ingo
>
>
>
>
>
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