Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency
hi peter, Am 11.05.20 um 07:50 schrieb Peter P.: Hi, * Marco Schretter [2020-05-11 02:25]: dear list, i'm thinking about the following (corona)performance-situation without any good solution by now: live performance situation where (an arbitrary no. of) people on the street can pass by and listen somehow to the performance live audio in 'realtime' with their mobile devices. the performers are eg. behind a window or on a distant stage, so some of the live-sound will be audible to the listeners too. that's why the system solution should have a low latency. the situation can also be considerated similar to a drive-in cinema. i tried streaming with pd [mp3cast~] / [oggcast~] to an icecast server and listen to the signal on the lan with a browser but the latency is hell (device dependent, browser dependent, no control of buffers on receiver etc)...4000ms :-( . also other streaming solutions had quite a big latency. another thought is to use ukw/fm radio transmission but i cannot expect people on the street to know how to receive ukw/fm radio with their phones. Yes, this is 2020. But you could tell them their phones might have FM tuners. Who knows, you might start a retro revolution. buying an event-licence for fm radio would only make sense if the listeners come by car. not my case. http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/drive-in-music/ you are absolutely right and thanks for the answer! everything was already possible several 'days ago'. also in my opinion fm is one of the most reliable and realtime solutions. same with infrared assisted listening systems - in several situations (eg. theaters) this is still 'state of the art' (best latency performance and good area-coverage!) though the technology is really *old. all main players still have ir systems in their product range. crazy... isn't it? silent disco systems also work (already tried this) but in corona times this is not hygenic and for me not possible to have so many receiver-headphones for an arbitrary number of listeners. Can't you simply place a loudspeaker on the audience's side? we thought about that. doubts: in public spaces this might cause a higher probability of 'listener-clouds' in the area of the loudspeakers which should be avoided. this might happen anyway in a performance situation but we want to reduce the probability with the system-design. but yes, a higher number of distributed loudspeakers is an option. side effect is a higher number of people/time to physically set up (and down) the [fix scale] system. hmm, maybe still cheaper than a digital solution... no upsides without downsides. let's see what happens in the end. yours m best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency
I haven't tried it myself, however a friend recommended Soundjack. He is currently testing it for ultra low latency radio situations on Leipzig's Sphere Radio: https://www.soundjack.eu/index.php/problems Maybe it helps. On 05/11/20 10:50, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: > Re: live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency > (Peter P.) -- jayrope +++ jayrope.com aircushionfinish.com kliklak.net ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency
hello, I've been making in situ performances in the last five years with this kind of live audio broadcasts. My experience in pre-corona times was: * that old-fashioned solutions (such as FM or silent disco) are the most reliable BUT some mobile phones don't have FM radios any more & (younger) people often have no experience with FM radio. * I also looked for internet (browser-based) or LAN solutions but there are always large latencies (> 500ms); the only solution would be to ask participants to install a specific app or program but asking this to passers-by or 'random' participants creates new problems... Two years ago I was also emailing about network audio with people from Cleanfeed, a small company. They seemed to offer a nice solution and I tried their system for a few months. But at that moment their service didn't provide a one-to-all broadcast, it was a system to provide fast and high-quality audio over the internet via browsers (for example for radio interviews). https://cleanfeed.net/ I don't have any experience with Audio over OSC, hopefully this could be a solution...? best, Hans On 5/11/20 9:50 AM, Christof Ressi wrote: would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC? AoO can work with relatively low latency, but usually you'd need to write an app. Since it is essentially a C/C++ library, it should be possible to compile it to WASM with Emscripten and then run it in the brower. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my TODO list :-) We currently use AoO for our virtual rehearsal space here at the IEM and I'll make a new release in the next few days. Christof On 11.05.2020 02:25, Marco Schretter wrote: dear list, i'm thinking about the following (corona)performance-situation without any good solution by now: live performance situation where (an arbitrary no. of) people on the street can pass by and listen somehow to the performance live audio in 'realtime' with their mobile devices. the performers are eg. behind a window or on a distant stage, so some of the live-sound will be audible to the listeners too. that's why the system solution should have a low latency. the situation can also be considerated similar to a drive-in cinema. i tried streaming with pd [mp3cast~] / [oggcast~] to an icecast server and listen to the signal on the lan with a browser but the latency is hell (device dependent, browser dependent, no control of buffers on receiver etc)...4000ms :-( . also other streaming solutions had quite a big latency. another thought is to use ukw/fm radio transmission but i cannot expect people on the street to know how to receive ukw/fm radio with their phones. buying an event-licence for fm radio would only make sense if the listeners come by car. not my case. silent disco systems also work (already tried this) but in corona times this is not hygenic and for me not possible to have so many receiver-headphones for an arbitrary number of listeners. connecting to a 'performance'-WLAN for the users with their mobile device would be best. access should be easy - the users really can be anyone, so maybe without any tech-knowledge. browser-based would give access to anyone. i'm thinking about a realization similar to the sennheiser connect system which distributes several audiostreams on a wlan. sennheiser connect is app-based and in worst-worst-case (means android) the system seems to have approx. 200ms delay. ios was faster in my listening tests. the problem is that the users need an app which means internet access for the installation... questions: ideas for a realization? how 'low-latency' could a browser based streaming in a lan/wlan be? would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC? the question here is the receiver ?app? (webPD?). as i found out several artists and audioengineers would be happy about a solution for this: how to reach the audience in a social distancing live-situation... thanks for any hint m ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency
would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC? AoO can work with relatively low latency, but usually you'd need to write an app. Since it is essentially a C/C++ library, it should be possible to compile it to WASM with Emscripten and then run it in the brower. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my TODO list :-) We currently use AoO for our virtual rehearsal space here at the IEM and I'll make a new release in the next few days. Christof On 11.05.2020 02:25, Marco Schretter wrote: dear list, i'm thinking about the following (corona)performance-situation without any good solution by now: live performance situation where (an arbitrary no. of) people on the street can pass by and listen somehow to the performance live audio in 'realtime' with their mobile devices. the performers are eg. behind a window or on a distant stage, so some of the live-sound will be audible to the listeners too. that's why the system solution should have a low latency. the situation can also be considerated similar to a drive-in cinema. i tried streaming with pd [mp3cast~] / [oggcast~] to an icecast server and listen to the signal on the lan with a browser but the latency is hell (device dependent, browser dependent, no control of buffers on receiver etc)...4000ms :-( . also other streaming solutions had quite a big latency. another thought is to use ukw/fm radio transmission but i cannot expect people on the street to know how to receive ukw/fm radio with their phones. buying an event-licence for fm radio would only make sense if the listeners come by car. not my case. silent disco systems also work (already tried this) but in corona times this is not hygenic and for me not possible to have so many receiver-headphones for an arbitrary number of listeners. connecting to a 'performance'-WLAN for the users with their mobile device would be best. access should be easy - the users really can be anyone, so maybe without any tech-knowledge. browser-based would give access to anyone. i'm thinking about a realization similar to the sennheiser connect system which distributes several audiostreams on a wlan. sennheiser connect is app-based and in worst-worst-case (means android) the system seems to have approx. 200ms delay. ios was faster in my listening tests. the problem is that the users need an app which means internet access for the installation... questions: ideas for a realization? how 'low-latency' could a browser based streaming in a lan/wlan be? would it be possible to receive AoO Audio over OSC? the question here is the receiver ?app? (webPD?). as i found out several artists and audioengineers would be happy about a solution for this: how to reach the audience in a social distancing live-situation... thanks for any hint m ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] live audio broadcast (radio) to lan with low latency
Hi, * Marco Schretter [2020-05-11 02:25]: > dear list, > > i'm thinking about the following (corona)performance-situation without any > good solution by now: > > live performance situation where (an arbitrary no. of) people on the street > can pass by and listen somehow to the performance live audio in 'realtime' > with their mobile devices. the performers are eg. behind a window or on a > distant stage, so some of the live-sound will be audible to the listeners > too. > > that's why the system solution should have a low latency. the situation can > also be considerated similar to a drive-in cinema. > > i tried streaming with pd [mp3cast~] / [oggcast~] to an icecast server and > listen to the signal on the lan with a browser but the latency is hell > (device dependent, browser dependent, no control of buffers on receiver > etc)...4000ms :-( . also other streaming solutions had quite a big latency. > > another thought is to use ukw/fm radio transmission but i cannot expect > people on the street to know how to receive ukw/fm radio with their phones. Yes, this is 2020. But you could tell them their phones might have FM tuners. Who knows, you might start a retro revolution. > buying an event-licence for fm radio would only make sense if the listeners > come by car. not my case. http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/drive-in-music/ > silent disco systems also work (already tried this) but in corona times this > is not hygenic and for me not possible to have so many receiver-headphones > for an arbitrary number of listeners. Can't you simply place a loudspeaker on the audience's side? best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
