Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

# macOS universal build status clarification

Ok, my intention was not to spread confusion, so let me rephrase I wrote 
previously:

I have been compiling universal (x86_64 + arm64) builds of both Pd and Tk 
8.6.12 for some months in the fall of 2021. It was working ok, more or less, 
after some adjustments to the build scripts. In late November / early December 
as finalization of the 0.52 release was upon us, I noticed that suddenly builds 
of Tk on my system ended with a non-working Wish.app and subsequent Pd.app. I 
believe this is when I was making test builds linking the newer JACK macOS 
distribution. I provided an arm64-only build instead as a work-around, then 
came holiday time and weeks of our whole family being sick so I haven't done 
any further development in detail since.

I believe this was also noticed on the IEM CI build setup, but perhaps I am 
remembering it incorrectly.

In no way do I imply that we cannot have a universal build, only that it wasn't 
working for me at a moment when we wanted to make a release.

The fix is more less when IOhannes (or whoever) can implement A1 (update the 
build system to a newer version of Xcode/CLITools).

# included pre-built Wish.app needs to be updated

I agree with A2 (don't build Tk every time), however then the included 
pre-build Wish.app also needs to be updated so everyone gets a *canonical* 
version from make app. As it is now, the current pre-built wish is 8.6.10 which 
has numerous small issues on macOS 12 systems, one of which I pointed out on a 
GitHub issue: black header bars on a table view.

For every release which requires rebuilding or updating the Wish.app used to 
make the App .app bundle on macOS, this wish needs to be included in the repo 
and replace the previous version. If we need two separate tarballs ala one for 
"old systems" from Miller's build setup and one for "newer systems" for the IEM 
CI setup, so be it. We can then modify the build system to detect the macOS 
version on the build system and use the appropriate Wish tarball.

In either case, the point is that users do not need to build Tk to get a 
working Pd .app *and* everyone is using the same nominal Tk frameworks. I 
believe I've stressed this before but perhaps it should be added to the release 
notes as an important step since I'm not involved in making the actually 
release zips or dmgs.

> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:56:40 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID: <36ca2d0c-f6bc-764a-32f0-cdae73d16...@iem.at 
> <mailto:36ca2d0c-f6bc-764a-32f0-cdae73d16...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 1/24/22 17:18, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> There was an issue with building Tk Wish 8.6.12 as a universal build which 
>> stopped this for now.
> 
> no.
> this is not really true, and more importantly i think it spreads confusion.
> 
> the truth (according to john) is:
> - for newer macOS versions, miller uses binaries produced by the iem-ci
> - the iem-ci currently does not build arm64 binaries
>   - simply because the XCode version installed there is too old
> - this means that Pd-core (on the downloads) is only x86_64
> - the iem-ci does not build Tcl/Tk *at all*
>   - instead it uses a pre-built binary (similar to the one found in 
> mac/stuff.tgz)
>   - this pre-built blob is Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 and it is a universal build 
> for arm64 and x86_64
> 
> 
> this raises the following questions:
> Q1: why is the iem-ci not updated to a newer XCode that allows to build 
> arm64 binaries for macOS?
> A1: because I haven't found the time yet to do so
> 
> Q2: why isn't Tcl/Tk build along with Pd
> A2: because I don't want our CI to spend time compiling a helper library 
> that we is not actively developed by *us*
> 
> 
> because of the situation with the externals, i do not consider the 
> current situation extremely bad.
> 
> 
> gfdmst
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 1/26/22 00:03, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

but once we have it available, we can star providing those :)


that's a false conclusion.

- for providing a Darwin_arm64 external you need a compiler that can 
produce such binaries

- you do *not* need a Darwin_arm64 Pd for compilation¹

therefore: *all* you need to provide Darwin_arm64 externals is the right 
compiler.

not having a Pd for this architecture is therefore not an excuse.


- for *using* such an external the requirements are different:
  - you need a Pd/Darwin_arm64
  - you need the hardware (afaiu, rosetta emulates x86_64 on the arm64, 
but not the other way round)


if - as a developer - you want to test your externals before you share 
them², you need all three (hardware, compiler, Pd).
however, you already do have a compiler, so what keeps you from 
compiling Pd yourself?


mgfdasr
IOhannes

¹ on macOS and Linux
² which you should do of course.


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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

but once we have it available, we can star providing those :)

Em seg., 24 de jan. de 2022 às 13:05, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> Hah probably true. For me it's fine as I don't use many externals and
> build those I do use myself.
>
> On Jan 24, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:55:38 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zm?lnig 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID: <05ee837f-94c2-4e9b-879e-0c384dd06...@iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Am 23. J?nner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com>:
>
> cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
>
>
> Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals
> available on deken for this architecture...
>
> afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX
>
>
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK... I've put a link to Dan's version on my download page and will leave it
until the CI build is merrily building for ARM .

cheers
M

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:56:40PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> On 1/24/22 17:18, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > There was an issue with building Tk Wish 8.6.12 as a universal build which 
> > stopped this for now.
> 
> no.
> this is not really true, and more importantly i think it spreads confusion.
> 
> the truth (according to john) is:
> - for newer macOS versions, miller uses binaries produced by the iem-ci
> - the iem-ci currently does not build arm64 binaries
>   - simply because the XCode version installed there is too old
> - this means that Pd-core (on the downloads) is only x86_64
> - the iem-ci does not build Tcl/Tk *at all*
>   - instead it uses a pre-built binary (similar to the one found in
> mac/stuff.tgz)
>   - this pre-built blob is Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 and it is a universal build for
> arm64 and x86_64
> 
> 
> this raises the following questions:
> Q1: why is the iem-ci not updated to a newer XCode that allows to build
> arm64 binaries for macOS?
> A1: because I haven't found the time yet to do so
> 
> Q2: why isn't Tcl/Tk build along with Pd
> A2: because I don't want our CI to spend time compiling a helper library
> that we is not actively developed by *us*
> 
> 
> because of the situation with the externals, i do not consider the current
> situation extremely bad.
> 
> 
> gfdmst
> IOhannes




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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 1/24/22 17:18, Dan Wilcox wrote:

There was an issue with building Tk Wish 8.6.12 as a universal build which 
stopped this for now.


no.
this is not really true, and more importantly i think it spreads confusion.

the truth (according to john) is:
- for newer macOS versions, miller uses binaries produced by the iem-ci
- the iem-ci currently does not build arm64 binaries
  - simply because the XCode version installed there is too old
- this means that Pd-core (on the downloads) is only x86_64
- the iem-ci does not build Tcl/Tk *at all*
  - instead it uses a pre-built binary (similar to the one found in 
mac/stuff.tgz)
  - this pre-built blob is Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 and it is a universal build 
for arm64 and x86_64



this raises the following questions:
Q1: why is the iem-ci not updated to a newer XCode that allows to build 
arm64 binaries for macOS?

A1: because I haven't found the time yet to do so

Q2: why isn't Tcl/Tk build along with Pd
A2: because I don't want our CI to spend time compiling a helper library 
that we is not actively developed by *us*



because of the situation with the externals, i do not consider the 
current situation extremely bad.



gfdmst
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Yes, a new universal build can work and I have several older test builds of 
such. There was an issue with building Tk Wish 8.6.12 as a universal build 
which stopped this for now. The issue may be fixed in newer Xcode versions, I'm 
not sure yet. In any case, I was not able to make a working universal build, so 
I've been using arm64-only builds personally. There is a thread somewhere on 
this, probably on Github.

In the end, the build server setup which makes the builds for "newer macOS 
systems" just needs to be tweaked so the core is configured as a universal 
build which also requires a new enough Xcode/CLITools. 

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 5:02 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:47:54 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID:  <mailto:f8b5a35eb64407991c93f85e50bcb59ee134717f.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 19:55 +0100, IOhannes m zm?lnig wrote:
>> Am 23. J?nner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
>> por...@gmail.com <mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:
>>> cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
>>> 
>> 
>> Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals
>> available on deken for this architecture...
>> 
>> afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX
> 
> Can universal binaries of externals be built on Intel Macs? Xcode
> documentation [1] suggests it depends on the Xcode version installed.
> But then again, can I install the necessary Xcode version on - say -
> 10.15 (Catalina)?
> 
> I know I can figure out these things when I have a access to such a
> system, but am curious to hear about people's experiences.
> 
> Roman


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Christof Ressi]

I guess we have to ship macOS ARM builds as seperate binaries then, at 
least until most externals provide macOS ARM versions resp. universal 
binaries.


On 24.01.2022 17:02, Dan Wilcox wrote:
Hah probably true. For me it's fine as I don't use many externals and 
build those I do use myself.



On Jan 24, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:55:38 +0100
From: IOhannes m zm?lnig 
To:pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
Message-ID: <05ee837f-94c2-4e9b-879e-0c384dd06...@iem.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Am 23. J?nner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres 
:

cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?



Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals 
available on deken for this architecture...


afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com>




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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Hah probably true. For me it's fine as I don't use many externals and build 
those I do use myself.

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:55:38 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zm?lnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID: <05ee837f-94c2-4e9b-879e-0c384dd06...@iem.at 
> <mailto:05ee837f-94c2-4e9b-879e-0c384dd06...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Am 23. J?nner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres 
> mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:
>> cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
>> 
> 
> Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals 
> available on deken for this architecture...
> 
> afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX
> 
> 
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Roman Haefeli]

On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 19:55 +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> Am 23. Jänner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com>:
> > cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
> > 
> 
> Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals
> available on deken for this architecture...
> 
> afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX

Can universal binaries of externals be built on Intel Macs? Xcode
documentation [1] suggests it depends on the Xcode version installed.
But then again, can I install the necessary Xcode version on - say -
10.15 (Catalina)?

I know I can figure out these things when I have a access to such a
system, but am curious to hear about people's experiences.

Roman
 

[1] 
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/building-a- 
universal-macos-binary


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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Who is the “we” you refer too? I  relieve only Miller has access to his own 
site.

enohp ym morf tnes
---
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com


> On Jan 23, 2022, at 6:42 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> 
> 
> cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
> 
>> Em dom., 23 de jan. de 2022 às 14:19, Dan Wilcox  
>> escreveu:
>> As a followup, I made a Pd 0.52-1 macOS build for arm64 (core *and* GUI). I 
>> signed it with my Apple distribution certificate, so it shouldn't complain 
>> about being from an "unknown developer":
>> 
>> Pd-0.52-1-arm64.zip 
>> 
>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:21 AM, Johnny Mauser  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thx for checking and verifying!
>>> 
>>>> Am 06.01.2022 um 00:19 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>>> 
>>>> Ah, whoops. The GUI is universal but I forgot to check the pd core as 
>>>> well... it is indeed x84_64 only:
>>>> 
>>>> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
>>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd: Mach-O 
>>>> 64-bit executable x86_64
>>>> 
>>>> There will need to be a "Pd0.52.1-really-universall.dmg" next...
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:17 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd 
>>>>> process leftover from some previous run?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out 
>>>>> of the dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:
>>>>> 
>>>>> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
>>>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O 
>>>>> universal binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable 
>>>>> x86_64] [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
>>>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for 
>>>>> architecture x86_64):  Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
>>>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for 
>>>>> architecture arm64):   Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers 
>>>>>> site, and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd 
>>>>>> application that it is still intel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" 
>>>>>>> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 
>>>>>>> (likely), Pd will still run. :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will 
>>>>>>> dig into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a 
>>>>>>> libpd release soon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>>>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette 
>>>>>>>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>>>>>>>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>>>>>>>> Message-ID: 
>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, 
>>>>>>>> i heard
>>>>>>>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an 
>>>>>>>> M1 machine
>>>>>>>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>> M
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Am 23. Jänner 2022 18:42:18 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres 
:
>cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?
>

Last time I checked, there was a total of 0 (zero) compiled externals available 
on deken for this architecture...

afaict that would give a somewhat lousy UX


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

cool, thanks, can't we upload this to miller's site?

Em dom., 23 de jan. de 2022 às 14:19, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> As a followup, I made a Pd 0.52-1 macOS build for arm64 (core *and* GUI).
> I signed it with my Apple distribution certificate, so it shouldn't
> complain about being from an "unknown developer":
>
> Pd-0.52-1-arm64.zip
> <http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-1-arm64.zip>
>
> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:21 AM, Johnny Mauser 
> wrote:
>
> Thx for checking and verifying!
>
> Am 06.01.2022 um 00:19 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>
> Ah, whoops. The GUI is universal but I forgot to check the pd core as
> well... it is indeed x84_64 only:
>
> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd: Mach-O
> 64-bit executable x86_64
>
> There will need to be a "Pd0.52.1-really-universall.dmg" next...
>
> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:17 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>
> Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd
> process leftover from some previous run?
>
> I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out
> of the dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:
>
> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O
> universal binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable
> x86_64] [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for
> architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for
> architecture arm64): Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64
>
> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser 
> wrote:
>
> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers
> site, and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd
> application that it is still intel.
>
> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
>
>
> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>
> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2"
> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely),
> Pd will still run. :)
>
> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will
> dig into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a
> libpd release soon.
>
> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
> From: Miller Puckette 
> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i
> heard
> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1
> machine
> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>
> cheers
> M
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

As a followup, I made a Pd 0.52-1 macOS build for arm64 (core *and* GUI). I 
signed it with my Apple distribution certificate, so it shouldn't complain 
about being from an "unknown developer":

Pd-0.52-1-arm64.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-1-arm64.zip> 

> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:21 AM, Johnny Mauser  
> wrote:
> 
> Thx for checking and verifying!
> 
>> Am 06.01.2022 um 00:19 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>> 
>> Ah, whoops. The GUI is universal but I forgot to check the pd core as 
>> well... it is indeed x84_64 only:
>> 
>> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd: Mach-O 
>> 64-bit executable x86_64
>> 
>> There will need to be a "Pd0.52.1-really-universall.dmg" next...
>> 
>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:17 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd 
>>> process leftover from some previous run?
>>> 
>>> I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out of 
>>> the dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:
>>> 
>>> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O universal 
>>> binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64] 
>>> [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
>>> x86_64):Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
>>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
>>> arm64): Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers 
>>>> site, and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd 
>>>> application that it is still intel.
>>>> 
>>>> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" 
>>>>> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), 
>>>>> Pd will still run. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will 
>>>>> dig into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a 
>>>>> libpd release soon.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette 
>>>>>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>>>>>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>>>>>> Message-ID: 
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i 
>>>>>> heard
>>>>>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
>>>>>> machine
>>>>>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>> M


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Johnny Mauser via Pd-list]

Thx for checking and verifying!

> Am 06.01.2022 um 00:19 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Ah, whoops. The GUI is universal but I forgot to check the pd core as well... 
> it is indeed x84_64 only:
> 
> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd: Mach-O 
> 64-bit executable x86_64
> 
> There will need to be a "Pd0.52.1-really-universall.dmg" next...
> 
>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:17 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd 
>> process leftover from some previous run?
>> 
>> I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out of 
>> the dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:
>> 
>> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O universal 
>> binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64] 
>> [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
>> x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
>> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
>> arm64):  Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64 
>> 
>>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers 
>>> site, and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd 
>>> application that it is still intel.
>>> 
>>> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>>>> 
>>>> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" 
>>>> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), 
>>>> Pd will still run. :)
>>>> 
>>>> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will 
>>>> dig into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a 
>>>> libpd release soon.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>>>>> From: Miller Puckette 
>>>>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>>>>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>>>>> Message-ID: 
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> 
>>>>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i 
>>>>> heard
>>>>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
>>>>> machine
>>>>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>>>>> 
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> M
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 




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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Johnny Mauser via Pd-list]

I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers site, 
and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd application 
that it is still intel.

Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?


> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
> 
> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" layer. 
> Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), Pd will 
> still run. :)
> 
> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will dig 
> into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a libpd 
> release soon.
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>> From: Miller Puckette 
>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i 
>> heard
>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
>> machine
>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>> 
>> cheers
>> M
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Ah, whoops. The GUI is universal but I forgot to check the pd core as well... 
it is indeed x84_64 only:

% file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd
/Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd: Mach-O 
64-bit executable x86_64

There will need to be a "Pd0.52.1-really-universall.dmg" next...

> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:17 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd 
> process leftover from some previous run?
> 
> I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out of 
> the dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:
> 
> % file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O universal 
> binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64] 
> [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
> x86_64):  Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
> /Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
> arm64):   Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64 
> 
>> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser > <mailto:joson.andr...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers 
>> site, and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd 
>> application that it is still intel.
>> 
>> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox >> <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" 
>>> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), 
>>> Pd will still run. :)
>>> 
>>> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will dig 
>>> into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a libpd 
>>> release soon.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>>>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>>>> From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
>>>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
>>>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>>>> Message-ID: mailto:ybty1ckcxkf4+...@ucsd.edu>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>> 
>>>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i 
>>>> heard
>>>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
>>>> machine
>>>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> M
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika
>>> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
>>> robotcowboy.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Are you sure you're not running an old build and/or there is a zombie pd 
process leftover from some previous run?

I downloaded Pd-0.52.1 +"really" from Miller's site, pulled the .app out of the 
dmg, and ran `file` to check the build architectures:

% file ~/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd
/Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd: Mach-O universal 
binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64] 
[arm64:Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64]
/Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
x86_64):Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
/Users/danomatika/Desktop/Pd-0.52-1.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd (for architecture 
arm64): Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64 

> On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14 AM, Johnny Mauser  
> wrote:
> 
> I am a little confused here. I downloaded Pd-0.52.1-really from Millers site, 
> and it runs on my m1 Mac, but activity monitor tells for the pd application 
> that it is still intel.
> 
> Should I have downloaded IOhannes build somewhere else?
> 
> 
>> Am 05.01.2022 um 23:42 schrieb Dan Wilcox :
>> 
>> Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" 
>> layer. Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), Pd 
>> will still run. :)
>> 
>> I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will dig 
>> into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a libpd 
>> release soon.
>> 
>>> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>>> 
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
>>> From: Miller Puckette 
>>> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>>> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
>>> Message-ID: 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>> 
>>> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i 
>>> heard
>>> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
>>> machine
>>> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> M
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Yup, there is no x86_64 emulation happening through Apple's "Rosetta2" layer. 
Better still, when Rosetta2 is removed in macOS 14 or 15 (likely), Pd will 
still run. :)

I know I'm late to the party but... thanks for the release, all! I will dig 
into it soon and hopefully finish off a few remaining things for a libpd 
release soon.

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:09:41 -0800
> From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> To: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released
> Message-ID: mailto:ybty1ckcxkf4+...@ucsd.edu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i heard
> from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 
> machine
> than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.
> 
> cheers
> M


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Philip Stone via Pd-list]

Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com asked:  “ 
Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?”

IOhannes replied:  “most likely not.”

I’m confused; I thought the arm64 builds were *for* M1 Macs? Forgive my 
ignorance here, but what does this mean?

Also, test 4 looks good on my (mid 2014) MacBook running 10.15.7, including 
using Jack.


Best,

Phil Stone
Davis, CA  USA
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em qui., 16 de dez. de 2021 às 13:40, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
escreveu:

> > Questions: - Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?
>
> most likely not.
>

what's on the way? I had the idea we were able to build it just fine.
cheers
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i heard
from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 machine
than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.

cheers
M

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 05:38:47PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
> On 12/16/21 15:28, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > 
> > First, replying to emails from pd-announce sends to 'pd-l...@iem.at' and
> > not 'pd-list@lists.iem.at', which results in undeliverable messages that
> > return back.
> 
> thanks for finding the long lost reference to the old and outdated address.
> it's now fixed.
> 
> > Questions: - Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?
> 
> most likely not.
> 
> gfmasdr
> IOhannes




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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 12/16/21 15:28, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:


First, replying to emails from pd-announce sends to 'pd-l...@iem.at' and
not 'pd-list@lists.iem.at', which results in undeliverable messages that
return back.


thanks for finding the long lost reference to the old and outdated address.
it's now fixed.


Questions: - Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?


most likely not.

gfmasdr
IOhannes


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em qui., 16 de dez. de 2021 às 02:49, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce <
pd-annou...@lists.iem.at> escreveu:

> OK, here's "test 4", which I believe runs on all reasonable platforms and
> is compatible with the newest Jack:
>
> http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> or (source only) https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data
>
> cheers
> Miller
>

First, replying to emails from pd-announce sends to 'pd-l...@iem.at' and
not 'pd-list@lists.iem.at', which results in undeliverable messages that
return back.

Release notes say "libpd included as part of the Pd distribution. A test
libpd project is included in ../pd/libpd.", but I still can't find
"pd/libpd" in the download of test4, macOS 10.10 or later...

Let me point again to my fixes on boxes, code has been revised now
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1515 this sorts what I consider
regression issues but we're still missing a shortcut for the symbol box
(are we really just discarding it?).

BTW, since we have improved labels in iemguis, here's also another
improvement we could include
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1082

Questions: - Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?
- What about double precision Pd for all reasonable platforms?
- What else do we expect to fix/test for the final version?

cheers
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