Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Mark Roberts wrote: > If you need shift lens capability, use a standard lens, scan your film and > correct the perspective with Photoshop. If you can't live the limitations of > that approach get a view camera. The problem I've seen with this is that it can badly distort other elements of the image. There is no distortion with the shift lens. Bolo -- Josef T. Burger - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
On 14 Jun 2002 at 8:39, Cameron Hood wrote: > Not if you have Photoshop. All of the camera movement corrections can be > done in an instant with the photoshop layer commands such as distort, > perspective, etc. IMHO, shift lenses are a thing of the past, unless you > really have to use the straight chromes (i.e. projecting). ..or if you need full frame resolution or if you're shooting a sequence to generate panoramas etc. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Hi, Bob, You know, they make eyeglasses these days that help with astigmatism. -frank Bob Blakely wrote: > Yes. I find that with many outdoor subjects, perfect mathematical > "correction", looks... strange too my eye. Though much better than > uncorrected, they look much more natural if a slight bit of "tilt" is left > in. -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
You may be right, but still that's not my opinion. There will still be requirements for rather large prints, and the loss of resolution experienced for serious correction of an 11x14 or larger from 35mm negative using even the best scanners is not acceptable to me. Better to have evenly spaced random grain across the print. Just my opinion. FYI, and slightly off this specific topic, some of these lenses (not Pentax) are shift/tilt lenses. No amount of manipulation in Photoshop will bring back the (apparent) depth of field control that tilt affords. Regards, Bob... From: "Cameron Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Not if you have Photoshop. All of the camera movement corrections can be > done in an instant with the photoshop layer commands such as distort, > perspective, etc. IMHO, shift lenses are a thing of the past, unless you > really have to use the straight chromes (i.e. projecting). - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Not if you have Photoshop. All of the camera movement corrections can be done in an instant with the photoshop layer commands such as distort, perspective, etc. IMHO, shift lenses are a thing of the past, unless you really have to use the straight chromes (i.e. projecting). C. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Yes. I find that with many outdoor subjects, perfect mathematical "correction", looks... strange too my eye. Though much better than uncorrected, they look much more natural if a slight bit of "tilt" is left in. Strangely, this is usually not true indoors, especially in cathedrals (too my eye). Regards, Bob... From: "John Coyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Interesting - looking at both Fred and Mishka's corrected images on my > screen, they seem over-corrected! Does anyone else get this effect? > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > > > On Friday, June 14, 2002 12:32 PM, Fred [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > > Eric, I have some photos at: > > > > http://www.cetussoft.com/pentax/k28shift/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
You can get better results in PS than you did. Using Transform/Distort, you can work all 4 corners independently. It helps to us use guide lines for setting the verticals. When I correct perspective distortion I not only pull the top corners up and out, I usually have to work one corner in and down. Not only do the verticels have to be straight up and down, but the vanishing lines have to look right. There is no simple formula for making it look right. The one thing you can't do in PS, than you can with a real view camera, are the swings for changing DOF. From: Mishka this is what i was talking about (comments are welcome) http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ignatievmatterccbrandeisedu /vwp?.dir=/Boston+2002& .src=bc&.dnm=22.jpg http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ignatievmatterccbrandeisedu /vwp?.dir=/Boston+2002& .src=bc&.dnm=22---1.jpg - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
No, the problem is,that the correction is incomplete! The image is well corrected for vertical distortion, e.g. vertical lines are now vertical, but it needs a second correction along the horizontal axis: The perspective lines from left to right converge too steeply for us too 'feel right'. The ornaments on the gateway especially thus appear distorted. You thus need a second correction along this line. On a shift lens you do this by rotating the lens so that the shift effect influences two dimensions (horizontal and vertical). An example where this is well done can be seen at: http://www.zoerk.de/pages/g_opera.htm (20mm Shift and 30 degree rotation) Doesn't look like a wide angle picture after correction? Well done! A shift lens lets you influence the convergence of straight lines in all directions. For a natural perspective vertical lines have to be made vertical, but too strongly converging horizontal lines also need modification to not appear exaggerated (28mm is just not the way our brain sees things). Knut At 04:31 14.06.02 -0700, you wrote: >Exactly!!! > >But, at least from the technical pov, they are not. >If you check the verticals, they are, well, vertical :) >What's more interesting, I found that even if I do the correction 95%, >rather than 100%, as it was suggested here, it still looks overdone. >And that was my original point. It doesn't work the way (I) want it to. >I think it has to do with the way human eyes work: from a given >viewpoint one expects a definite amount of distortion, and when it'snot >there, it starts looking... well, weird. > >For minor corrections, it does work wonders though. > >Mishka > > > From: John Coyle > > Subject: RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting? > > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:59:24 -0700 > > > > > > Interesting - looking at both Fred and Mishka's corrected images on > > my screen, they seem over-corrected! Does anyone else get this >effect? > > > > > > John Coyle > > Brisbane, Australia >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >- >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
I have a 28mm Shift lens and I love it! Most of my photography is travel photography and I usually take slides, which I later project. Going via digital -correcting the tilt- and then making a slide from the corrected digital image would be much too cumbersome for me. In addition there would be a quality loss due to the many processing stages involved (slide- digitalising - manipulating in Photoshop - new slide). While I used to do most of my travel photography with a Pentax A 28/2.8, A50/1,4 and Tamron 90/2.5, I now find that the 28mm Shift + the Pentax 77/1.8 are just the ideal combo. Before I often used the 50mm lens to go back and reduce tilting of vertical lines in architectural images. I no longer have to do this. With the 28 shift this problem can be avoided. A Pentaxian really interested in buying a 28mm Shift lens should also consider the Leica Shift lens. It is actually not a Leica lens, but made by Schneider Kreuznach. http://www.schneiderkreuznach.de/foto/an_su_pc/an_su_pc.htm The website is in German -> click on the button 'Prospekt' it will download you the pdf of the information sheet in English. Schneider sells this lens with mounts for all standard cameras (e.g. Pentax, C, N* etc.). Mounts can be changed if you should change system. It was tested much better better than the Pentax lens by the German Journal Fotomagazin. It is 1/2 a f-stop faster than the Pentax (2.8 vs 3.5). Despite this, it is lighter and more compact. In Germany it sells new for about the same price as the Pentax shift. Interestingly this is $300-400 less than the Leica version! Knut At 00:32 14.06.02 +0200, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > >I have the possibility to get a mint K 28/3.5 shift lens for app. US$ 550. >Is the lens worth spending that amount of money? Can anyone please share >their personal experience in regard to this lens? > >Thanks, Eric >- >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Exactly!!! But, at least from the technical pov, they are not. If you check the verticals, they are, well, vertical :) What's more interesting, I found that even if I do the correction 95%, rather than 100%, as it was suggested here, it still looks overdone. And that was my original point. It doesn't work the way (I) want it to. I think it has to do with the way human eyes work: from a given viewpoint one expects a definite amount of distortion, and when it'snot there, it starts looking... well, weird. For minor corrections, it does work wonders though. Mishka > From: John Coyle > Subject: RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting? > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:59:24 -0700 > > > Interesting - looking at both Fred and Mishka's corrected images on > my screen, they seem over-corrected! Does anyone else get this effect? > > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Hi Mishka, On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:04:54 -0700 (PDT), Mishka wrote: >this is what i was talking about (comments are welcome) >http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ignatievmatterccbrandeisedu/vwp?.dir=/Boston+2002&.src=bc&.dnm=22.jpg >http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ignatievmatterccbrandeisedu/vwp?.dir=/Boston+2002&.src=bc&.dnm=22---1.jpg You are right, this does look weird. But that is mainly because the perspective correction was overdone, it is MUCH better to correct for only 95% of the distortion than do it 105% ... If you look at the second image, you will see that the columns of the gate seem to widen towards the top. I also have the impression that the whole image should be rotated counter-clockwise about 1 degree ... When done correctly, you will NOT see a real difference between a photoshop correction, and a correction using a shifted lens. (apart from loss of image-quality maybe if using a too low resoluation) Regards, Jan van Wijk -- Jan van Wijk; http://www.dfsee.com/gallery - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Interesting - looking at both Fred and Mishka's corrected images on my screen, they seem over-corrected! Does anyone else get this effect? John Coyle Brisbane, Australia On Friday, June 14, 2002 12:32 PM, Fred [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > Eric, I have some photos at: > > http://www.cetussoft.com/pentax/k28shift/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
One thing you should keep in mind is that the distortion caused by viewing things at an angle through a regular lens can be fixed easily through digital manipulation. For an example using very cheap software, see my page at http://ca.geocities.com/spirope/perspective.htm Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
- Original Message - From: E. Kragtwijk Subject: 28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting? > Hello everyone, > > I have the possibility to get a mint K 28/3.5 shift lens for app. US$ 550. > Is the lens worth spending that amount of money? Can anyone please share > their personal experience in regard to this lens? Ive played around with that lens on a couple of occassions. Personally, I think if you want a shift lens, find a used view camera and a lens around 135mm. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
28mm/3.5 shift lens: worth getting?
Hello everyone, I have the possibility to get a mint K 28/3.5 shift lens for app. US$ 550. Is the lens worth spending that amount of money? Can anyone please share their personal experience in regard to this lens? Thanks, Eric - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
