Re: A clue to the flash-impaired?
On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my ZX-M for about six months. On a recent vacation I took some photos in extreme, almost overhead, sunlight. I did what I could when composing to try and get the sun behind me, but... let's just say the photos are less than what I'd hoped for. Lots of shadows on the subjects' faces... some of them are very underexposed as well (the landscape looks great, though!). I don't think you need to use flash at all. Camera-mounted flash can make photos look dull and flat. Natural light is more interesting. It sounds as if the landscape in your photos was significantly brighter than your subjects, and dominated the scene, thereby dominating your lightmeters average reading. You could using over exposure compensation - effectively telling the camera I want the scene brighter than *you* think it should be, because I know these small darker shapes here are more important than the average landscape, dammit! One thing flash *will* remove is the shadows that strong overhead light casts on faces from noses, eyebrows and other protrubrances. But often there are other, more interesting ways to get rid of those. Hve them stand near a bright, reflecting wall. Under trees that diffuse the sunlight. etc. PS: I don't know where the sun must be behind the photographer rule comes from, but I think its junk. It makes people squint. It gives flat light. Try having the sunlight come in from an angle, to the side. -- ,_ /_) /| / / i e t e r/ |/ a g e l - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: A clue to the flash-impaired?
Comments inline: Pieter Nagel wrote: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my ZX-M for about six months. On a recent vacation I took some photos in extreme, almost overhead, sunlight. I did what I could when composing to try and get the sun behind me, but... let's just say the photos are less than what I'd hoped for. Lots of shadows on the subjects' faces... some of them are very underexposed as well (the landscape looks great, though!). I don't think you need to use flash at all. Camera-mounted flash can make photos look dull and flat. Natural light is more interesting. If you just let the camera do its auto thing you get that effect. Intelligently used fill does not do that it just lightens forground objects. If it wipes out shadows it is over done. It sounds as if the landscape in your photos was significantly brighter than your subjects, and dominated the scene, thereby dominating your lightmeters average reading. You could using over exposure compensation - effectively telling the camera I want the scene brighter than *you* think it should be, because I know these small darker shapes here are more important than the average landscape, dammit! If the forground object is the subject that is ok, but if both are important you have to use some kind of fill, whether fill flash or reflectors, to lighten the forground or the backgroud is way to light. One thing flash *will* remove is the shadows that strong overhead light casts on faces from noses, eyebrows and other protrubrances. But often there are other, more interesting ways to get rid of those. Hve them stand near a bright, reflecting wall. Under trees that diffuse the sunlight. etc. PS: I don't know where the sun must be behind the photographer rule comes from, but I think its junk. It makes people squint. It gives flat light. Try having the sunlight come in from an angle, to the side. The sun behind the shoulder rule is another one of those obsolete things left over from the days when just getting a printable negative was a challenge for a snap shooter (non-adustable cameras). - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: A clue to the flash-impaired?
A useful old trick from the days before auto flash is to cover the flash head with a white handkerchef. A rubber band works well to hold it on. One layer cuts the output down about one stop, two layes about two stops. Use your usual guide number and just use one or two layers to reduce your fill level. --Tom Peifer, William [OCDUS] wrote: Paul Warren wrote: I'd now like to learn some more about fill-flash. I understand the basic concept, but I'm confused about equipment. My ZX-M came with the AF201SA flash, but my understanding is that it's not very appropriate for fill flash. If I'm wrong, let me know! Anyway, I'm mostly confused about the terminology surrounding flashes (manual, auto, TTL, non- TTL) and what will and won't work with the ZX-M. Any enlightenment/ suggestions on technique/equipment? Hi Paul, Welcome to the list! Maybe I can help you out. Hopefully one of the other list members can help you out if I lead you astray. Pardon the long answer MANUAL: You figure out the proper lens aperture and subject distance from the flash unit's guide number. For instance, I believe your AF201SA has a guide number of 66 (in feet). Provided you are using ASA 100 film, the correct lens aperture multiplied by the correct distance-to-subject will be equal to the guide number. For example, you might use ASA 100 film, a lens set at f/4, and a distance to your subject of about 16 feet. This will give you a *fully illuminated* subject. (This is different from fill flash -- more on that below.) If you use film faster than 100 speed, just multiply the guide number for your flash unit by the square root of the speed ratio. Thus, for 400-speed film, the guide number would be 66 times the square root of (400/100), or 132. You could thus shoot subjects about 32 feet away at f/4, or about 16 feet away at f/8, for example. Just to complicate things further, some flash units will allow you to discharge the flash at less than full power. Many of the Sunpak units, for instance, allow you to discharge at full power, 1/2, 1/4, or 1/16. For fill flash, you generally don't want all of the light illuminating your subject to come from the flash. Your subject may be partially illuminated by the sun or other ambient light, and you just need a little extra to partially fill in some of the shadows. If you're shooting people, keep the sunlight out of their faces to avoid squinting, etc. From your distance to subject, calculate the proper aperture for full flash illumination, then stop down the aperture a bit (perhaps a stop or two further, to allow for less light on the subject). Using your camera's meter, calculate the correct shutter speed to properly expose the background of your scene at the aperture you just set your lens to. Hopefully the correct shutter speed will be slower than the X-sync speed for your camera (1/100 sec for the ZX-M, if I remember correctly). This is where a variable-power flash unit sometimes comes in handy. AUTO: A little sensor on the front of the flash unit measures the flash intensity reflected off the subject. When enough light has been detected, the flash unit quenches (or shuts off) the flash. Thus, the duration of the actual flash will be longer for darker scenes and shorter for lighter scenes. You can generally do fill flash with these types of units by either setting the film speed dial on the flash unit to a faster film speed than you have loaded, or by stopping down your lens a bit further than the correct aperture displayed on the indicator scale on the flash unit. TTL: Through-the-lens metering. A little sensor inside of your camera measures the flash intensity at the film plane. Your camera body would then tell the flash unit when to quench the flash. This requires a dedicated flash unit, specific for your camera, and a TTL-capable body. If I remember correctly, the ZX-M is not capable of TTL metering. Generally, non-TTL units are AUTO. A NOTE ON EQUIPMENT: You may wish to pick up a more versatile flash unit at some point. A useful feature to have is a bounce head -- one that can be angled from horizontal to vertical. Another useful feature is a swivel head -- one that can be rotated from a straight-ahead position to an off-to-the-side position. This way, you can bounce the harsh flash off of a ceiling or wall to get a more diffused and natural light. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: A clue to the flash-impaired?
John Glover wrote: AF201Sa has that option. You might want to look for a nice used AF280T, as it will probably do anything you want on the ZX-M, I know it's not Pentax but the Vivitar 283 is still a wonderful flash for the ZX-M. It has a moveable head and an optional module for varying the power. You can also leave the AF sensor on the hot shoe and move the flash around. I don't know if they are still marketed, but they also had a bounce flash attachment, lenses for altering the field of coverage for wide-angle telephoto lenses. provided you use it in the automatic or manual modes. Plus, it is TTL compatible so when you upgrade to a TTL body in the future, you will not need a change in flashes. The 283 won't help there but it's only about $60 new. Gary J Sibio - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: A clue to the flash-impaired?
Tom Rittenhouse wrote: A useful old trick from the days before auto flash is to cover the flash head with a white handkerchef. A rubber band works well to hold it on. One layer cuts the output down about one stop, two layes about two stops. Use your usual guide number and just use one or two layers to reduce your fill level. I still do that to soften the light some. My flashes always look like they are suffering from severe head trauma. Gary J Sibio - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
A clue to the flash-impaired?
First-time poster... go easy on me :) I've been using my ZX-M for about six months. On a recent vacation I took some photos in extreme, almost overhead, sunlight. I did what I could when composing to try and get the sun behind me, but... let's just say the photos are less than what I'd hoped for. Lots of shadows on the subjects' faces... some of them are very underexposed as well (the landscape looks great, though!). I'd now like to learn some more about fill-flash. I understand the basic concept, but I'm confused about equipment. My ZX-M came with the AF201SA flash, but my understanding is that it's not very appropriate for fill flash. If I'm wrong, let me know! Anyway, I'm mostly confused about the terminology surrounding flashes (manual, auto, TTL, non-TTL) and what will and won't work with the ZX-M. Any enlightenment/suggestions on technique/equipment? Thanks! - Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: A clue to the flash-impaired?
Paul Warren wrote: I'd now like to learn some more about fill-flash. I understand the basic concept, but I'm confused about equipment. My ZX-M came with the AF201SA flash, but my understanding is that it's not very appropriate for fill flash. If I'm wrong, let me know! Anyway, I'm mostly confused about the terminology surrounding flashes (manual, auto, TTL, non- TTL) and what will and won't work with the ZX-M. Any enlightenment/ suggestions on technique/equipment? Hi Paul, Welcome to the list! Maybe I can help you out. Hopefully one of the other list members can help you out if I lead you astray. Pardon the long answer MANUAL: You figure out the proper lens aperture and subject distance from the flash unit's guide number. For instance, I believe your AF201SA has a guide number of 66 (in feet). Provided you are using ASA 100 film, the correct lens aperture multiplied by the correct distance-to-subject will be equal to the guide number. For example, you might use ASA 100 film, a lens set at f/4, and a distance to your subject of about 16 feet. This will give you a *fully illuminated* subject. (This is different from fill flash -- more on that below.) If you use film faster than 100 speed, just multiply the guide number for your flash unit by the square root of the speed ratio. Thus, for 400-speed film, the guide number would be 66 times the square root of (400/100), or 132. You could thus shoot subjects about 32 feet away at f/4, or about 16 feet away at f/8, for example. Just to complicate things further, some flash units will allow you to discharge the flash at less than full power. Many of the Sunpak units, for instance, allow you to discharge at full power, 1/2, 1/4, or 1/16. For fill flash, you generally don't want all of the light illuminating your subject to come from the flash. Your subject may be partially illuminated by the sun or other ambient light, and you just need a little extra to partially fill in some of the shadows. If you're shooting people, keep the sunlight out of their faces to avoid squinting, etc. From your distance to subject, calculate the proper aperture for full flash illumination, then stop down the aperture a bit (perhaps a stop or two further, to allow for less light on the subject). Using your camera's meter, calculate the correct shutter speed to properly expose the background of your scene at the aperture you just set your lens to. Hopefully the correct shutter speed will be slower than the X-sync speed for your camera (1/100 sec for the ZX-M, if I remember correctly). This is where a variable-power flash unit sometimes comes in handy. AUTO: A little sensor on the front of the flash unit measures the flash intensity reflected off the subject. When enough light has been detected, the flash unit quenches (or shuts off) the flash. Thus, the duration of the actual flash will be longer for darker scenes and shorter for lighter scenes. You can generally do fill flash with these types of units by either setting the film speed dial on the flash unit to a faster film speed than you have loaded, or by stopping down your lens a bit further than the correct aperture displayed on the indicator scale on the flash unit. TTL: Through-the-lens metering. A little sensor inside of your camera measures the flash intensity at the film plane. Your camera body would then tell the flash unit when to quench the flash. This requires a dedicated flash unit, specific for your camera, and a TTL-capable body. If I remember correctly, the ZX-M is not capable of TTL metering. Generally, non-TTL units are AUTO. A NOTE ON EQUIPMENT: You may wish to pick up a more versatile flash unit at some point. A useful feature to have is a bounce head -- one that can be angled from horizontal to vertical. Another useful feature is a swivel head -- one that can be rotated from a straight-ahead position to an off-to-the-side position. This way, you can bounce the harsh flash off of a ceiling or wall to get a more diffused and natural light. Hope this helps. Good luck! Bill Peifer Rochester, NY - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: A clue to the flash-impaired?
Hi Chris! I think the GN gives a clue to the distance for correct exposure. With grey cards and stuff. But I must admit your example makes me wonder... Jostein -Original Message- From: Chris Brogden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ok, stupid question time. Does using the guide number like this give you the maximum distance at which you can fully illuminate a subject, or is it the furthest that the effects of the flash can be seen, however minimally? For example, the 500FTZ has a GN of 50 meters. If I'm using an f2 lens (down to 25m now) and shooting with ISO 400 film (doubling the effective distance of the flash), can I really get a fully illuminated subject 50m away? Or is that just the furthest that I can reasonably expect to see some effects of the flash? chris ### This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange. For more information, connect to http://www.F-Secure.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
