Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 10:16:37AM +0800, David Savage wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After getting the K10D, I amused myself by going and looking at the DPReview review of the original ist-D - it's amazing how similar in design the two cameras are. IMO they feel very different in the hand though. Well, yes and no. I'm never in any doubt as to which one I am using, but most of the controls are in the same general position. That isn't true for ISO, though - the K10D eliminated a drawback of the *ist D. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
I did not like the D handling and thought the K10D is much better although it is also a lot more heavy. Later I could handle a DL (father's camera) and a K100D (I offered to my wife) and I have to admit that those two are a lot better than the D. Not as good as the K10D but they are a lot more lightweight and I might steal my wife's K100D when I'll need lightweight. On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Maas wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. Most people who have used both give me a crooked stare when I admit this. Granted, the stare could be for other reasons. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Hi, As others have said prior, most Pentax DSLR are so closely alike that it is hard to determine which one is so different. Shape/size slightly differ and is a matter of taste that the only thing that comes into my mind is the *istD's use of the CF card vs. all the other's use of the SD card which make's it anomalous. I tend to look at it that way, but since the D was the first of the series--it could either be the first try (trial error?)/prototype for Pentax or it could be the standard/measure of things to come. If it was the latter, then that makes all the others' use of the SD card as the anomaly :-D Bong On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Roman Melihhov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. -- K100D Super, DA10-17mm, DA16-45mm, DA50-200mm, Dörr DStudio strobes roman.blakout.net http://roman.blakout.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Bong Manayon http://www.bong.uni.cc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. -- K100D Super, DA10-17mm, DA16-45mm, DA50-200mm, Dörr DStudio strobes roman.blakout.net http://roman.blakout.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. -Adam On 3/29/08, Roman Melihhov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. -- K100D Super, DA10-17mm, DA16-45mm, DA50-200mm, Dörr DStudio strobes roman.blakout.net http://roman.blakout.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. That's debatable. Slow write speeds Very true. Was always a serious PITA when shooting action more often in my case, panorama sequences. and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I still do this so it isn't that big a difference to me. Cheers, Dave On 3/29/08, Roman Melihhov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Adam Maas wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. Most people who have used both give me a crooked stare when I admit this. Granted, the stare could be for other reasons. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Tim Bray wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. Most people who have used both give me a crooked stare when I admit this. Me too, with the *istD and K20D. Mind you, I carried the *ist for 4.5 years and the K20 for 3 weeks so far :) -T I never actually owned an *istD, and maybe held one a dozen times. My guess is that I took less than 100 shots with an *istD. For what that's worth. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. Most people who have used both give me a crooked stare when I admit this. Me too, with the *istD and K20D. Mind you, I carried the *ist for 4.5 years and the K20 for 3 weeks so far :) -T -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
I shoot both the *ist-D and the *ist-Ds I find both to have their pusses and minuses. However they are essentially the same camera. I haven't much experience with later models, but I found all of the *ist-D[x] cameras and the K1xxD cameras that I handled to be essentially the same, for handling at least. The K10D until the K20D was released was in the same position as the *ist-D kind of a one off but a much larger camera, though in real terms the size difference between the *ist-D[x]/K1xxD and the K10D was about the same as between a MX and an LX. No the anomalous DSLR in the Pentax family is the one I have no hope of owning or even holding, the MR-52/MZ-D/K1D, (depending on which designation you prefer). Different materials, (titanium body shell?), different interface, (requires lenses with an aperture ring), full frame sensor, aperture simulator, very expensive, (in the $5000+ dollar range). Aiming more or less for the same market as the Leica 8M, where as the current offerings are aiming for working wedding photographers and experienced amateurs/semi pro photographers who want the most value for their money. Roman Melihhov wrote: Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
I'm kind of confused on this. What's the question here, what's the worst Pentax digital SLR model? What have we seen - 3 different form factors, maybe 2? There was the *istD, the *istDs, and the K10D. I don't think the *istD and the *istDs were very different. Both were nearly identical bodies...just a slightly bigger screen on the *istDs? And weren't the remaining *istDL and such the same form factor, just a porro mirror instead instead of the prism...so no change in body. And the K10D and K20D are so close I fear mixing them up if I'm not careful. They are identical except for the slightly bigger screen fitted onto the K20D. Handed one or the other in the dark, you would have trouble telling which you held. So what's the question here? Do you like form factor A, the smaller one or form factor B, the bigger one??? I still like the *istDs size and weight ( no battery pack). It is more in line with the traditionally smaller Pentax size 35mm camera. If I had a say in the design, I would like a Ds size camera with the 2 wheels, one front one back. I've grown used to these since the PZ-1. As it stands, I'm adjusting to the bigger size of the K20D. Regards, Bob S. On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:17 AM, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I shoot both the *ist-D and the *ist-Ds I find both to have their pusses and minuses. However they are essentially the same camera. I haven't much experience with later models, but I found all of the *ist-D[x] cameras and the K1xxD cameras that I handled to be essentially the same, for handling at least. The K10D until the K20D was released was in the same position as the *ist-D kind of a one off but a much larger camera, though in real terms the size difference between the *ist-D[x]/K1xxD and the K10D was about the same as between a MX and an LX. No the anomalous DSLR in the Pentax family is the one I have no hope of owning or even holding, the MR-52/MZ-D/K1D, (depending on which designation you prefer). Different materials, (titanium body shell?), different interface, (requires lenses with an aperture ring), full frame sensor, aperture simulator, very expensive, (in the $5000+ dollar range). Aiming more or less for the same market as the Leica 8M, where as the current offerings are aiming for working wedding photographers and experienced amateurs/semi pro photographers who want the most value for their money. Roman Melihhov wrote: Which Pentax DSLR's you consider as anomalous/awkward either by their intent/design or features? Your input is appreciated. Roman. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Scott Loveless wrote: Adam Maas wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. I don't think you're odd (well, about this, anyway...) I prefer the feel if the ist-D to the K10D. It's a slight preference, though; not enough to bother me. What *did* bother me was the control layout of the MZ-S. I *loved* the overall ergonomics, but missed the dual-control-wheel setup of the PZ-1p (and ist-D and K10d). If the MZ-S had that control setup I *never* would have sold it. Ever. It would have been my film camera to keep forever. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
Mark Roberts wrote: Scott Loveless wrote: Adam Maas wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. I don't think you're odd (well, about this, anyway...) I prefer the feel if the ist-D to the K10D. It's a slight preference, though; not enough to bother me. What *did* bother me was the control layout of the MZ-S. I *loved* the overall ergonomics, but missed the dual-control-wheel setup of the PZ-1p (and ist-D and K10d). If the MZ-S had that control setup I *never* would have sold it. Ever. It would have been my film camera to keep forever. I've only used an MZ-S a couple of times and found the layout to be non-intuitive. Actually reading the manual would have helped. The PZ-1 has a wonderful interface, though. I only wish it was built to the same standards as the MZ-S. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
At 3:50 PM -0400 3/29/08, Scott Loveless wrote: Mark Roberts wrote: Scott Loveless wrote: Adam Maas wrote: The *istD. Overly small grip makes the handling inferior to the later bodies. Slow write speeds and the necessity to drop out of shooting mode to change ISO, WB or image quality settings comprimise it as a camera as well. I think I'm odd-man-out here. While the K10D was plenty comfy, I found the *istD much more pleasant to hold. I don't think you're odd (well, about this, anyway...) I prefer the feel if the ist-D to the K10D. It's a slight preference, though; not enough to bother me. What *did* bother me was the control layout of the MZ-S. I *loved* the overall ergonomics, but missed the dual-control-wheel setup of the PZ-1p (and ist-D and K10d). If the MZ-S had that control setup I *never* would have sold it. Ever. It would have been my film camera to keep forever. I've only used an MZ-S a couple of times and found the layout to be non-intuitive. Actually reading the manual would have helped. The PZ-1 has a wonderful interface, though. I only wish it was built to the same standards as the MZ-S. Funny! I am just the opposite regarding the MZ-S...I found its control layout to be very intuitive and easy to use. I think it is a lovely handling camera...especially with the grip. I think that is one of the two reasons that I have never really taken to the *istD...a non-intuitive interface with controls that are readily accessible on the MZ-S requiring multiple button pushes and wheel turnings on the *istD. I am slowly getting used to turning the wheel to adjust the aperture instead of twisting a ring. The camera is also just a little small to grip comfortably for me. I have just ordered the grip for the *istD from KEH...I expect that will improve things. -- Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://earth.delith.com/photo_gallery.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:57:08AM -0500, Bob Sullivan wrote: I'm kind of confused on this. What's the question here, what's the worst Pentax digital SLR model? What have we seen - 3 different form factors, maybe 2? There was the *istD, the *istDs, and the K10D. I don't think the *istD and the *istDs were very different. Both were nearly identical bodies...just a slightly bigger screen on the *istDs? And weren't the remaining *istDL and such the same form factor, just a porro mirror instead instead of the prism...so no change in body. The DL was basically the same as the DS, but the original D was different. Quite apart from the fact that it took CF cards, not SD media, it also had the two-wheel control interface found on the PZ-1p (and now the K10D/K20D). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Mar 29, 2008, at 16:01, John Francis wrote: The DL was basically the same as the DS, but the original D was different. Quite apart from the fact that it took CF cards, not SD media, it also had the two-wheel control interface found on the PZ-1p (and now the K10D/ K20D). After getting the K10D, I amused myself by going and looking at the DPReview review of the original ist-D - it's amazing how similar in design the two cameras are. With the exception of the weather sealing, SR, larger screen and 10 megapixel sensor, the two cameras are actually quite similar. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
What *did* bother me was the control layout of the MZ-S. I *loved* the overall ergonomics, but missed the dual-control-wheel setup of the PZ-1p (and ist-D and K10d). If the MZ-S had that control setup I *never* would have sold it. Ever. It would have been my film camera to keep forever. Funny you should mention the MZ-S. It took me FOREVER to sell it even though I knew I had no further use for it. I just loved the ergonomics of it that much. More to the point, as I was shooting today at the zoo with the K10D tripod mounted just a few inches above eye level, I was reminded once again of how totally cool the slanted top panel of the MZ-S was in such situations. It allowed me to read the settings and keep track of changes very easily from different angles of view. Plus it just looked neat :o) That seemed like such a slick *and* practical design. I haven't a clue why it never transferred to future camera designs. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On 3/29/08, John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:57:08AM -0500, Bob Sullivan wrote: I'm kind of confused on this. What's the question here, what's the worst Pentax digital SLR model? What have we seen - 3 different form factors, maybe 2? There was the *istD, the *istDs, and the K10D. I don't think the *istD and the *istDs were very different. Both were nearly identical bodies...just a slightly bigger screen on the *istDs? And weren't the remaining *istDL and such the same form factor, just a porro mirror instead instead of the prism...so no change in body. The DL was basically the same as the DS, but the original D was different. Quite apart from the fact that it took CF cards, not SD media, it also had the two-wheel control interface found on the PZ-1p (and now the K10D/K20D). And the handgrip is significantly smaller on the D. I found the DS to be the best handling of the Pentax bodies due to having the largest and most ergonomic grip. The K100D is very similar while the K10D has less depth to the grip than a DS, but much more than the D. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 04:22:16PM -0500, Charles Robinson wrote: On Mar 29, 2008, at 16:01, John Francis wrote: The DL was basically the same as the DS, but the original D was different. Quite apart from the fact that it took CF cards, not SD media, it also had the two-wheel control interface found on the PZ-1p (and now the K10D/ K20D). After getting the K10D, I amused myself by going and looking at the DPReview review of the original ist-D - it's amazing how similar in design the two cameras are. With the exception of the weather sealing, SR, larger screen and 10 megapixel sensor, the two cameras are actually quite similar. -Charles Oh, I agree :-) That's why I, among many other D owners here, waited for the K10D to come along before purchasing a new body. But then I love the two-wheel ergonomics I had on the PZ-1p; although I did get the MZ-S when it came out for the improved auto-focus I never really took to it, and continued to use the PZ-1p a lot of the time. What I like best about the K10D, though, is the additional shooting modes (promoting ISO almost to a par with shutter speed aperture) - an unexpected bonus from a feature I initially mostly discounted. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Anomalous Pentax DSLR's
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After getting the K10D, I amused myself by going and looking at the DPReview review of the original ist-D - it's amazing how similar in design the two cameras are. IMO they feel very different in the hand though. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
