Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Tom R. wrote: And the sarcastic mode was meant to be humorous, I mean, people I know don't talk like that. And going out of my way to make it clear I was being sarcastic, I thought would be taken to be in fun. It certainly was more apparent than a smiley face. But, I guess one man's sense of humor is another man's rudeness. - --Tom I certainly didn't see anything at all objectionable in your post, and I was surprised that anyone could. I share your disgust with inflated equipment ratings on eBay and everywhere else. "Mint plus" is patently absurd and there's nothing wrong that I can see with pointing that out. I was told by one dealer once that a "9 out of 10" was "at least four grades down from perfect" for them because you had 9+, 10-, and mint- before you got to "mint." I told him that by my arithmetic, 4 grades down from a 10 was a 6, a number which would have accurately described the "9" camera he sent me. Cheating bastard. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Well, no. Mint comes from coin collecting. It means just like it came from the mint with no signs of wear what so ever, even the little rough edges from the stamping press are not worn. For cameras it means that is is like new but the packaging and papers are missing. Like new should mean the same thing, but often means it is very slightly warn, like a demo but preowned. New in box, a misnomer if there ever was one, means like new or mint with all the original papers etc. The difference is the packaging, being in the box, especially old stuff where the packaging itself is valuable, makes it worth more to a collector. I can't imagine why a user would care. New means just that. Never sold, has everything that it came from the factory with, no one else has owned it before you buy it. Note: even gray market stuff does not qualify as new because the manufacturers warranty is curtailed and usually the store bought it from another dealer rather than the distributor. Excellent, very good, good, etc. run the gamut from used to junky looking. Plus or minus applies to these. To a collector these are all cosmetic terms. Working or not is another consideration. So why the sarcasm? If we all do not use the terms the same way they become meaningless. How can you tell what you are buying if mint means a few scratches to one seller, and to another that it still works, rather than what you would expect it to. Believe me a serious collector that paid mint prices for a scratched camera would be very angry, and so would I. --Tom John Francis wrote: Isn't "New In Box" regarded as Mint+ ? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Well, I thought "proof" is a limited run of coins minted primarily as collector items. Sort of like the LX-2000. They would be expected to be mint, of course. And the sarcastic mode was meant to be humorous, I mean, people I know don't talk like that. And going out of my way to make it clear I was being sarcastic, I thought would be taken to be in fun. It certainly was more apparent than a smiley face. But, I guess one man's sense of humor is another man's rudeness. --Tom Chris Brogden wrote: On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Tom Rittenhouse wrote: Well, no. Mint comes from coin collecting. It means just like it came from the mint with no signs of wear what so ever, even the little rough edges from the stamping press are not worn. If you're talking about coin collecting, then even that has a grade above mint called "proof." Proof is fresh from the mint, absolutely perfect. This could easily be the effect that the seller was trying to convey by saying Mint+. Personally, anything Mint or over I assume to be in perfect shape. Even if we all agree what the terms mean (not going to happen), then we'll still have different opinions as to judging a lens Exc+ or Mint-. So why the sarcasm? If we all do not use the terms the same way they become meaningless. How can you tell what you are buying if mint means a few scratches to one seller, and to another that it still works, rather than what you would expect it to. Believe me a serious collector that paid mint prices for a scratched camera would be very angry, and so would I. --Tom I think the sarcasm was rude. What you say in this paragraph is logical and makes sense. I would much rather have seen this paragraph instead of the sarcasm as your first reaction to the post. One is rude; the other, constructive. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Proof coins are struck on specially polished and prepared dies, to give the coin the highest quality mirrored and frosted finish possible. They are never intended for circulation. A mint state coin is a perfect example of a production run coin. John - Original Message - From: "Chris Brogden" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 2:59 AM Subject: Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens! If you're talking about coin collecting, then even that has a grade above mint called "proof." Proof is fresh from the mint, absolutely perfect. This could easily be the effect that the seller was trying to - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Tom Rittenhouse wrote: Well, I thought "proof" is a limited run of coins minted primarily as collector items. Sort of like the LX-2000. They would be expected to be mint, of course. True, they're printed specially for collecting, as someone pointed out, so that analogy isn't perfect. Personally, I feel that "mint" is overused (like every other good grade), and when I see "mint+" from a PDML member I assume that the item is absolutely pristine. I don't care if it's called "mint doubleplusgood +++" as long as it looks like it. What I hate are descriptions like "MINT AND PERFECT, except for the rust and fungus, and those scratches where my iguana mated with it." The only thing I hate worse than that are the descriptions that leave out everything after "MINT AND PERFECT" when there should be five lines of qualifications (or preferably a lower grade g). And the sarcastic mode was meant to be humorous, I mean, people I know don't talk like that. And going out of my way to make it clear I was being sarcastic, I thought would be taken to be in fun. It certainly was more apparent than a smiley face. But, I guess one man's sense of humor is another man's rudeness. True. And it's often hard to judge tone over e-mail. chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Yeah, Mint+ is better than brand new. I've seen some Kiev stuff touted as better than brand new because Kiev USA does some modifications to the cameras that makes them better than new. Their words, not mine. But I don't think that could apply here. Len --- -Original Message- From: Tom Rittenhouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens! sarcastic mode on Wow, mint+. That's better than new. Like I said, wow. What are we on ebay now? sarcastic mode off --Tom Charles Carol Hardwick wrote: Hello All, I have too much stuff and wanted other Pentax users to have first crack (I don't like auctions). This is a Mint+ Tokina 80-400 4.5-5.6 Auto Focus lens for Pentax KAF mount cameras. The first $300 gets it! I would like to sell in the USA/Canada and PayPal/Personal Check is fine. Thanks! Charles Hardwick San Angelo, TX - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: For Sale Tokina 80-400 AF Zoom Lens!
Isn't "New In Box" regarded as Mint+ ? -- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Silicon Graphics, Inc. (650)933-82952011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991 (650)932-0828 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die. - I've only seen it referred to as "New In Box" or "NIB", or, in KEH's rating system, "Like New" but I guess that could work if that's your interpretation. Len --- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
