Foveon Fotos
If in fact Foveon did give Sigma a 5 year exclusive digital camera rights to the chip, they probably shot themselves in the foot. The market for prosumer digital SLR's is for a long time going to be dominated by Nikon and Canon shooters looking to add a digital body to their kit. Also, in reading some early reviews in DP review, lens quality will be much more important as the pixels, or quality of the pixels, goes up. I don't know that Sigma has that many outstanding pro oriented lenses available, or that consumers will want to spend that kind of money on pro level Sigma lenses. Sigma will definitely sell some digicams, but I doubt that they will out do the big three. BUTCH "Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself" Hermann Hesse (Demian) - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
He sent your the portrait of the guy? Your eyes are far better than mine if we are talking about the same photo. Ciao, Graywolf - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Foveon Fotos > And the pics I received from Mike looked like crap, in that it was clear > they were digital, highlights were burnt out, there was color fringing, > and some other problems. Either we received different prints, or you > need new glasses . I'd have to pull out the prints to be very > specific wrt each one. But I was not impressed one whit. > > T Rittenhouse wrote: > > > > Let me warn you, the print from a Canon D30 Mike Johnson sent into the > > Challenge, the one that made me ask if I should use such prints to rate the > > printers, was so good it made my eyes blink. The thing is it showed no > > digital effects whatsoever it may have been run through an image enhancing > > program, or actually been done on film and scanned with a commercial scanner > > for all I could tell. No other picture I have seen from a D30 looked that > > good, no picture I have seen from any mobile digital camera looked that > > good. > > -- > Shel Belinkoff > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ > You can't have everything. Where would you put it? > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Re: Foveon Fotos
Your point is well made. Also, the larger pixels are more sensitiv (higher ISO) and less sensitive to noise (better image). Between those and your comments about lens resolution a 24x36 would be far better than a smaller chip with the same overall pixel count. A 6MP full frame sensor is pretty much the same as what is being used in medium format digital backs right now. Ciao, Graywolf - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: Re: Re: Foveon Fotos > T Rittenhouse wrote: > > > Let me warn you, the print from a Canon D30 Mike Johnson sent into > > the Challenge, the one that made me ask if I should use such prints > > to rate the printers, was so good it made my eyes blink. > > Let that be a lesson to the pixel counters; there's a lot more to image > quality than just the number of pixels a camera records. People who think > the Foveon (or the Philips or the Fuji or whatever) won't equal 35mm film > because it doesn't capture enough pixels are missing this. Of course those > who say it'll be *better* are probably missing it too. The proof or lack > thereof will be in the prints. > > I'm really curious about these particular new sensors but the one I'm most > interested in is actually the oldest: the Philips. A full-frame chip gives > you more than the advantage of being able to use wide angle lenses. It gives > you the full resolution of your lenses. Consider two CCDs, both producing > 6 megapixels, but one being full-frame and the other being smaller. A 35mm > frame has a diagonal dimension of 43mm. If you use a CCD with a diagonal > of, say, 28mm, you gat a "focal length multiplier" factor of about 1.5 with > the smaller chip. Now say your lens has a resolution of a nice round figure > like 50 lpm. That works out to 1400 lines across the frame of the small > sensor. A full-frame sensor, however, with *the same lens* would get 2100 > lines across the full frame. In other words, the smaller CCD not only multiplies > your focal length by 1.5, it *divides* the effective resolution of your > lens by 1.5. The pixel giveth and the pixel taketh away. > > This assumes all things being equal, of course, and all other things are > never equal. There are plenty of other ways to screw up a chip, so rather > than predict great things from the Philips CCD, I'm going to sit back and > wait to see how things shake out. Like I said, I'm really curious to see > images from this latest batch of sensors. > > > -- > Mark Roberts > www.robertstech.com > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
And the pics I received from Mike looked like crap, in that it was clear they were digital, highlights were burnt out, there was color fringing, and some other problems. Either we received different prints, or you need new glasses . I'd have to pull out the prints to be very specific wrt each one. But I was not impressed one whit. T Rittenhouse wrote: > > Let me warn you, the print from a Canon D30 Mike Johnson sent into the > Challenge, the one that made me ask if I should use such prints to rate the > printers, was so good it made my eyes blink. The thing is it showed no > digital effects whatsoever it may have been run through an image enhancing > program, or actually been done on film and scanned with a commercial scanner > for all I could tell. No other picture I have seen from a D30 looked that > good, no picture I have seen from any mobile digital camera looked that > good. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Re: Foveon Fotos
T Rittenhouse wrote: > Let me warn you, the print from a Canon D30 Mike Johnson sent into > the Challenge, the one that made me ask if I should use such prints > to rate the printers, was so good it made my eyes blink. Let that be a lesson to the pixel counters; there's a lot more to image quality than just the number of pixels a camera records. People who think the Foveon (or the Philips or the Fuji or whatever) won't equal 35mm film because it doesn't capture enough pixels are missing this. Of course those who say it'll be *better* are probably missing it too. The proof or lack thereof will be in the prints. I'm really curious about these particular new sensors but the one I'm most interested in is actually the oldest: the Philips. A full-frame chip gives you more than the advantage of being able to use wide angle lenses. It gives you the full resolution of your lenses. Consider two CCDs, both producing 6 megapixels, but one being full-frame and the other being smaller. A 35mm frame has a diagonal dimension of 43mm. If you use a CCD with a diagonal of, say, 28mm, you gat a "focal length multiplier" factor of about 1.5 with the smaller chip. Now say your lens has a resolution of a nice round figure like 50 lpm. That works out to 1400 lines across the frame of the small sensor. A full-frame sensor, however, with *the same lens* would get 2100 lines across the full frame. In other words, the smaller CCD not only multiplies your focal length by 1.5, it *divides* the effective resolution of your lens by 1.5. The pixel giveth and the pixel taketh away. This assumes all things being equal, of course, and all other things are never equal. There are plenty of other ways to screw up a chip, so rather than predict great things from the Philips CCD, I'm going to sit back and wait to see how things shake out. Like I said, I'm really curious to see images from this latest batch of sensors. -- Mark Roberts www.robertstech.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
unless the big name players use their muscles and keep sigma out. In which case fovean could die too. On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:43:11AM -0500, Bill Owens wrote: > If, as I've read here earlier, Sigma has exclusive rights to the Fovean chip > for 5 years, they will become a major player in the digital field. > > Bill > > - Original Message - > From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:50 AM > Subject: Re: Foveon Fotos > > > > Here's a comparison with a "standard" digital camera. > > http://www.foveon.net/X3_comparison.html > > > > Bear in mind they are publicity photos, but also bear in mind what you > > saw on Stephen's site. I recall seeing some full-sized images. I'll > > try to find them again and post the url here. > > > > Antti-Pekka Virjonen wrote: > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 01:10 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm Can't tell a thing from these... http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/pages/0022matt.htm shows evidence of either a heavy hand on the unsharp mask tool or an overzealous sharpening algorithm in the camera -- check out the halo between the kid's shirt collar and his skin. Let us know how the prints look. -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Re: Foveon Fotos
Maybe,just maybe,this is what Pentax was waiting for to see the results of this technology. Dave Begin Original Message From: Antti-Pekka Virjonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Now, Pentax, please make the MZ-D with this (or future) Foveon chip. Antti-Pekka Pentax User Stouffville Ontario Canada Sign up today for your Free E-mail at: http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
Even though i'v had t go to power zoom spectacles, those look very nice indeed. Dave Begin Original Message From: Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:10:57 -0800 To: Pentax List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Foveon Fotos http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . End Original Message Pentax User Stouffville Ontario Canada Sign up today for your Free E-mail at: http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
At 08:43 26.2.2002 -0500, you wrote: >If, as I've read here earlier, Sigma has exclusive rights to the Fovean chip >for 5 years, they will become a major player in the digital field. > >Bill If they do, they certainly will. I do not, however, find such an agreement very wise move from the Fovean people. Maybe such a deal is for the current chip model used to build a 35mm digital camera ? Hmm... Antti-Pekka --- * Antti-Pekka Virjonen * Fiskarsinkatu 7 D * GSM: +358 400 789753 * * Computec Oy Turku* FIN-20750 Turku Finland * Fax: +358 2 413 * - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
Here's a comparison with a "standard" digital camera. http://www.foveon.net/X3_comparison.html Bear in mind they are publicity photos, but also bear in mind what you saw on Stephen's site. I recall seeing some full-sized images. I'll try to find them again and post the url here. Antti-Pekka Virjonen wrote: > >http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm > > Oh my... It would be nice to see the > full-size images. These look fantastic though :-) > > Now, Pentax, please make the MZ-D with this (or future) Foveon chip. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
At 22:10 25.2.2002 -0800, Shel wrote: >http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm Oh my... It would be nice to see the full-size images. These look fantastic though :-) Now, Pentax, please make the MZ-D with this (or future) Foveon chip. Antti-Pekka --- * Antti-Pekka Virjonen * Fiskarsinkatu 7 D * GSM: +358 400 789753 * * Computec Oy Turku* FIN-20750 Turku Finland * Fax: +358 2 413 * - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
I may have a chance to see prints this week some time. If I do, I'll let you know. tom wrote: > > http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm > > Have you seen prints? -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Foveon Fotos
On 25 Feb 2002 at 22:10, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm Have you seen prints? tv - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Foveon Fotos
http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
