RE: Interesting K7 review
I rarely enter the OS debates (being Catholic I already have a religion) but I currently own a MacBook and a Dell laptop. I inherited the MacBook when my daughter went off to Africa. I use the MacBook on a regular basis as my home computer. It's a good machine, but it's just no light-years ahead of the Windows system. They both work fine and neither freeze. Let's modernize our debate and go to iPhone vs. Blackberry. -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Francis Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:53 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Interesting K7 review On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 06:57:50PM -0400, Adam Maas wrote: The irony there being the one thing MS gets consistently right is Office, particularly Excel. Oh, they get a lot more than Office right. Visual Studio is hands down the best interactive development environment out there, and has been for the last decade or longer. The rest of the world still hasn't caught up with the functionality of the debugger I was using on Apollo workstations almost twenty years ago. Not that I'm a fan of Microsoft's business practices (although nowadays Apple is at least as bad, if not worse). But I respect the quality of their development tools, even if I use very little other than the basic compilers (and the Standard Template Library); MFC, for example, is an ugly attempt to force everybody into the Microsoft view of the world. Borland's OWL was a much cleaner abstraction, but look where that went. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
LOL... [quote from memory] To all you iPhone owners, don't act like you invented it, you only bought the bloody thing! Cheers Ecke 2009/9/7 Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu: Let's modernize our debate and go to iPhone vs. Blackberry. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
eckinator wrote: LOL... [quote from memory] To all you iPhone owners, don't act like you invented it, you only bought the bloody thing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k3zvI2tyPMeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fadamthinks%2Ecom%2Fiphone%2Ffeature=player_embedded#t=76 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On 7/9/09, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: eckinator wrote: LOL... [quote from memory] To all you iPhone owners, don't act like you invented it, you only bought the bloody thing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k3zvI2tyPMeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fadamthinks% 2Ecom%2Fiphone%2Ffeature=player_embedded#t=76 This link will work better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k3zvI2tyPM -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
2009/9/6 Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca: The irony there being the one thing MS gets consistently right is Office, particularly Excel. Office is excellent from a user perspective. It's a nightmare for most other things. I could tell you many a horror story from where I work. :-( Microsoft's OS'es however, and XP in particular, deserves a lot less bashing than it gets from the Linux/Apple fanboys. It's as if they judge MS products based on verdicts given by the computer industry's Ken Rockwells. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sep 5, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Cotty wrote: http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/ Borg making cameras! I want the 6x17 one. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, P. J. Allingwebstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, for the good old days of Windows 3.x where a simple one line change in an INI file would turn your PC into a dedicated machine for playing Solitaire. I still have mine downstairs.:-) Just in case. Dave Eckehard Wegner wrote: For anything other than Windoze you are actually quite right. My customers are open to most things but they will not switch OS. Yet at the same time I try to achieve as many things as possible with Windows built-in options rather than to add programs. k.i.s.s. and Pareto really. And remember: Linux for development, MacOS for productivity and Windows for Minesweeper. Cheers Ecke 2009/9/6 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:46:32PM +0200, Eckehard Wegner wrote: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. You made a minor grammatical error. Here let me help you fix it: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On 4/9/09, Brendan MacRae, discombobulated, unleashed: Good review. OT: He mentions the RED camera: http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/ Borg making cameras! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. I never buy a car that's been in production for less than a year. Early adoptors usually enjoy the luxury of an extra risk. I can't wait for the K-7 to mature... ]=) Cheers Ecke 2009/9/4 Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu: Yep. They need to be careful. Lots of folks don't want to do extensive testing right off the back to see if they have a lemon or not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
2009/9/4 Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu: Yep. They need to be careful. Lots of folks don't want to do extensive testing right off the back to see if they have a lemon or not. - Original Message - From: Eckehard Wegner Subject: Re: Interesting K7 review In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. I never buy a car that's been in production for less than a year. Early adoptors usually enjoy the luxury of an extra risk. I can't wait for the K-7 to mature... ]=) Unfortunately, because of the lifecycle of these things, by the time they might have the bugs worked out they are already ramping up new models, so rather than fix the bugs in the old product, they release a new one with it's own bugs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:46:32PM +0200, Eckehard Wegner wrote: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. You made a minor grammatical error. Here let me help you fix it: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
For anything other than Windoze you are actually quite right. My customers are open to most things but they will not switch OS. Yet at the same time I try to achieve as many things as possible with Windows built-in options rather than to add programs. k.i.s.s. and Pareto really. And remember: Linux for development, MacOS for productivity and Windows for Minesweeper. Cheers Ecke 2009/9/6 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:46:32PM +0200, Eckehard Wegner wrote: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. You made a minor grammatical error. Here let me help you fix it: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Eckehard Wegnereckina...@gmail.com wrote: For anything other than Windoze you are actually quite right. My customers are open to most things but they will not switch OS. Yet at the same time I try to achieve as many things as possible with Windows built-in options rather than to add programs. k.i.s.s. and Pareto really. And remember: Linux for development, MacOS for productivity and Windows for Minesweeper. Cheers Ecke The irony there being the one thing MS gets consistently right is Office, particularly Excel. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Ah, for the good old days of Windows 3.x where a simple one line change in an INI file would turn your PC into a dedicated machine for playing Solitaire. Eckehard Wegner wrote: For anything other than Windoze you are actually quite right. My customers are open to most things but they will not switch OS. Yet at the same time I try to achieve as many things as possible with Windows built-in options rather than to add programs. k.i.s.s. and Pareto really. And remember: Linux for development, MacOS for productivity and Windows for Minesweeper. Cheers Ecke 2009/9/6 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:46:32PM +0200, Eckehard Wegner wrote: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products until after SP1 or even SP2. You made a minor grammatical error. Here let me help you fix it: In my job I don't recommend productive use of M$ products. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Couldn't agree with you more but 95% of the users I deal with use less than 5% of the features of Excel. In fact they hardly do anything Works couldn't do. Office is for key and power users. All other can get OpenOffice and do their stuff just fne. Cheers Ecke 2009/9/6 Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca: On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Eckehard Wegnereckina...@gmail.com wrote: For anything other than Windoze you are actually quite right. My customers are open to most things but they will not switch OS. Yet at the same time I try to achieve as many things as possible with Windows built-in options rather than to add programs. k.i.s.s. and Pareto really. And remember: Linux for development, MacOS for productivity and Windows for Minesweeper. Cheers Ecke The irony there being the one thing MS gets consistently right is Office, particularly Excel. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 06:57:50PM -0400, Adam Maas wrote: The irony there being the one thing MS gets consistently right is Office, particularly Excel. Oh, they get a lot more than Office right. Visual Studio is hands down the best interactive development environment out there, and has been for the last decade or longer. The rest of the world still hasn't caught up with the functionality of the debugger I was using on Apollo workstations almost twenty years ago. Not that I'm a fan of Microsoft's business practices (although nowadays Apple is at least as bad, if not worse). But I respect the quality of their development tools, even if I use very little other than the basic compilers (and the Standard Template Library); MFC, for example, is an ugly attempt to force everybody into the Microsoft view of the world. Borland's OWL was a much cleaner abstraction, but look where that went. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Interesting K7 review
http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Mark, Thanks, that was interesting. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Mark Robertsm...@robertstech.com wrote: http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Thanks for that link Mark. Not a bad review from some one who thought Pentax did not exist any more. I really like the paragraph right under the Image Quality heading. Hit the nail on the head with that one. Maybe i'll cc that over to The Forum and see what trouble i can get into. Bill can't have ALL the fun over there Dave On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Mark Robertsm...@robertstech.com wrote: http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Interesting K7 review
This is a really good review. No fanboy stuff either way. He just tried the camera in a real setting and liked what he found. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Mark Robertsm...@robertstech.com wrote: http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
On Sep 4, 2009, at 10:07, Desjardins, Steve wrote: This is a really good review. No fanboy stuff either way. He just tried the camera in a real setting and liked what he found. ..until his followup comment, where he said he was trying REALLY HARD to still like it. Or something to that effect. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Interesting K7 review
Yep. They need to be careful. Lots of folks don't want to do extensive testing right off the back to see if they have a lemon or not. -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Joseph Tainter Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:41 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Interesting K7 review http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html Interesting indeed. Others are reporting that the K-7 overexposes. Be sure to read the follow-on comments. Pentax's quality-control problems are becoming too widely known. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html Interesting indeed. Others are reporting that the K-7 overexposes. Be sure to read the follow-on comments. Pentax's quality-control problems are becoming too widely known. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Joseph Tainter Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:41 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Interesting K7 review http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html Interesting indeed. Others are reporting that the K-7 overexposes. My K7 meter is verty accurate and consistent. For neutral subjects I get good results at +1/3 stop. I would guess that more than half of new camera complaints are the result of operator error. Paul Be sure to read the follow-on comments. Pentax's quality-control problems are becoming too widely known. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Paul Stenquist wrote: My K7 meter is very accurate and consistent. For neutral subjects I get good results at +1/3 stop. My experience suggests that too. I always keep my K20D set +0.7 as standard (that's good for shooting RAW keeping histogram 'to the right'). That native -0.7 EV to compensate for is probably a conservative setting for JPEG shooters. The K-7 I've tested was better set to +0.3 instead of +0.7 of the K20D. So it can be said that the K-7 overexposes upon the K20D, which in my opinion underexposes. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Good review. OT: He mentions the RED camera: http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/ Scroll down to the gallery of 8 images and take a look at the configuration in the top row, far right. Makes for an interesting looking camera, can't really call it a DSLR since it's not; it has no shutter. They call it a DSMC (Digital Stills and Motion Camera). FF sensor brain unit (sans grip, lenses, viewfinders, etc.) is almost $10K. - Original Message From: Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 5:02:30 AM Subject: Interesting K7 review http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RED Re: Interesting K7 review
On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 06:06:04PM -0700, Brendan MacRae scripsit: OT: He mentions the RED camera: http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/ Scroll down to the gallery of 8 images and take a look at the configuration in the top row, far right. Makes for an interesting looking camera, can't really call it a DSLR since it's not; it has no shutter. They call it a DSMC (Digital Stills and Motion Camera). FF sensor brain unit (sans grip, lenses, viewfinders, etc.) is almost $10K. They're aiming squarely at the movie industry; it's not particularly price-sensitive. Personally, while I think the conception is great, I expect the long-term system integration issues to hammer the folks at RED. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Interesting K7 review
Interesting review. I did notice that he seems to be complaining about how much detail the sensor can capture, when he complains about how critical focus has to be because of the sensor's resolution. The fix for this is simple just down res the captured image. It will /look/ sharper. Mark Roberts wrote: http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0909/cb0909-1.html -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
