Re: Is this guy right?????
On 5/26/2015 6:39 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: I am surprised that everybody is mad about the DOF part, but nobody is surprised by this nonsense: Once you realize it's nonsense, it's ALL nonsense. None of it is any more surprisingly nonsensical than the rest of it. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
On Tue, May 26, 2015, at 04:34, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. i use Flipboard a lot (have my own magazines) and have given up reading the default Photography magazine—few of the articles are really good and some are downright bad -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
OOPS better link http://www.lightstalking.com/cameras-sensor-size/ James On 26/05/2015 8:34 PM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Is this guy right?????
While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James I was hoping the equivalence debate would never make it's way to the PDML. The lens doesn't change, however you gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller. The equivalence nimrods dwell on that number, completely ignoring that the maximum aperture of a lens is determined by the manufacturer, not the format it is put in front of. Please direct further inquiries to DPReview. They have people there who have nothing better to do with their lives than make entire mountain ranges out of this molehill. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
you dont gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller, you only gain depth of field when you change the lens to a shorter focal length to give the equiv angle of view on the smaller sensor. JCO On 5/26/2015 8:12 AM, Bill wrote: On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James I was hoping the equivalence debate would never make it's way to the PDML. The lens doesn't change, however you gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller. The equivalence nimrods dwell on that number, completely ignoring that the maximum aperture of a lens is determined by the manufacturer, not the format it is put in front of. Please direct further inquiries to DPReview. They have people there who have nothing better to do with their lives than make entire mountain ranges out of this molehill. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
No he is wrong, and yes, he is an idiot, (not ad hominem as his article pretty much proves the point). Reading his article will actually, much as reading much of the tripe Kennyboy posts, make the average reader dumber. He's not afraid to share his knowledge, nor smart enough to disguise his ignorance. On 5/26/2015 6:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
I can't believe what I am reading. 50mm is always 50mm. 50/2 is always 50/2 no matter the format. All that changes is the perception resulting from a crop. Shoot with a full frame and cut off the outer third of your print. That's the same as shooting with your crop sensor. Only perceived dof changes b/c of the missing material. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
Actually you gain, or lose, depth of field, based entirely on the size of the aperture, if you look at the math, that fact is pretty apparent. Smaller aperture equals smaller CoC implies greater DoF. Light transmission, to simplify things, depends on the f stop which is as we all know, the ratio of the size of the lens opening to focal length. Which is what promotes the idea that larger, (numbered), f stops and shorter focal lengths give greater DoF. So I'll modify my comment in the last post. The author of the piece, isn't an just an idiot, he's an ignorant idiot, with a very high opinion of himself. By the way, the author, also displays an astounding ignorance of the inverse square law, which is central to pretty much every rule of correct exposure, in photography. On 5/26/2015 8:37 AM, J C OConnell wrote: you dont gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller, you only gain depth of field when you change the lens to a shorter focal length to give the equiv angle of view on the smaller sensor. JCO On 5/26/2015 8:12 AM, Bill wrote: On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James I was hoping the equivalence debate would never make it's way to the PDML. The lens doesn't change, however you gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller. The equivalence nimrods dwell on that number, completely ignoring that the maximum aperture of a lens is determined by the manufacturer, not the format it is put in front of. Please direct further inquiries to DPReview. They have people there who have nothing better to do with their lives than make entire mountain ranges out of this molehill. bill -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
Am 26.05.15 um 12:34 schrieb james: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. I'd be careful with such things. The production of BS in such quantities might be treated as an industrial activity with all legal and fiscal consequences. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
On 5/26/2015 8:12 AM, Bill wrote: On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James I was hoping the equivalence debate would never make it's way to the PDML. The lens doesn't change, however you gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller. The equivalence nimrods dwell on that number, completely ignoring that the maximum aperture of a lens is determined by the manufacturer, not the format it is put in front of. Please direct further inquiries to DPReview. They have people there who have nothing better to do with their lives than make entire mountain ranges out of this molehill. bill If memory serves, it's been here and gone away and now it's back again. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
I wasn't mad about that, what do you say about someone who obviously believes that Hitler is still alive and living in Argentina., Well he never said that in so many words, but the conspiracy theory required to make ISO 100 be different for every sensor size, also implies a belief in lots of other things that range from the improbable to the impossible. On 5/26/2015 6:39 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: I am surprised that everybody is mad about the DOF part, but nobody is surprised by this nonsense: Here is a fun fact: the lens set to f/2 on every sensor will result in the same shutter speed for the same exposure. This is because the sensors have different signal multipliers, meaning that 100 ISO is not really 100 - it is actually multiplied, and you simply don't see that. While all the equivalence discussion is such a mess (it can be confusing), and this guys is totally confused, in this statemenet, he defies the laws of optics, including the definition of aperture and it's relation to the amount of light coming through the lens. James: the simple response is: do not read what's written on the public restroom's walls. Igor On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
Really folks, this crap is best left to DPReview's open talk forum. In other news, the Cormorants Lake Lodge near The Pas Manitoba is open for the season. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
I suspect this is just bad, confused writing rather than an attempt to defy the laws of optics. I think a generous interpretation would be that he was trying to say something along the following lines: 1. For a given EV, an aperture setting of f/2 and an ISO of 100 will lead to the same shutter speed regardless of which sensor you use 2. Different sensors have different 'native' sensitivity, but they are calibrated to the ISO standard If I've interpreted this correctly then - 1. is correct but hardly earth-shattering news - 2. I've no idea whether this is correct or not (except for calibration to the ISO standard) or what a signal multiplier is or what it has to do with anything. I think this person is trying to impress with scientific-sounding mumbo-jumbo. Someone who doesn't know anything about photography, or who is confused about the variables involved in photography, is unlikely to be helped by such poor writing. B On 26 May 2015, at 23:39, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote: I am surprised that everybody is mad about the DOF part, but nobody is surprised by this nonsense: Here is a fun fact: the lens set to f/2 on every sensor will result in the same shutter speed for the same exposure. This is because the sensors have different signal multipliers, meaning that 100 ISO is not really 100 - it is actually multiplied, and you simply don't see that. While all the equivalence discussion is such a mess (it can be confusing), and this guys is totally confused, in this statemenet, he defies the laws of optics, including the definition of aperture and it's relation to the amount of light coming through the lens. James: the simple response is: do not read what's written on the public restroom's walls. Igor On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
On 26/05/2015 6:37 AM, J C OConnell wrote: you dont gain depth of field as the sensor gets smaller, you only gain depth of field when you change the lens to a shorter focal length to give the equiv angle of view on the smaller sensor. This does, of course, presume that one wants to take the same picture from the same spot. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
I am surprised that everybody is mad about the DOF part, but nobody is surprised by this nonsense: Here is a fun fact: the lens set to f/2 on every sensor will result in the same shutter speed for the same exposure. This is because the sensors have different signal multipliers, meaning that 100 ISO is not really 100 - it is actually multiplied, and you simply don't see that. While all the equivalence discussion is such a mess (it can be confusing), and this guys is totally confused, in this statemenet, he defies the laws of optics, including the definition of aperture and it's relation to the amount of light coming through the lens. James: the simple response is: do not read what's written on the public restroom's walls. Igor On 26/05/2015 4:34 AM, james wrote: While reading the photography part on flipboard (Smart phone app) A guy named Dzvonko Petrovski is talking about crop v full frame sensors. Edited quote: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. Link here: http://www.lightstalking.com/?s=camera+sensor+size Huh A lens gets darker on a crop sensor James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
I just sent an email to the site: i...@lightstalking.com saying as much. CollinB wrote: I can't believe what I am reading. 50mm is always 50mm. 50/2 is always 50/2 no matter the format. All that changes is the perception resulting from a crop. Shoot with a full frame and cut off the outer third of your print. That's the same as shooting with your crop sensor. Only perceived dof changes b/c of the missing material. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Is this guy right?????
On 26 May 2015, at 14:34, Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Am 26.05.15 um 12:34 schrieb james: A 50mm F2 lens on full frame is as expected a 50mm F2. On a 1.5 crop sensor, it is a 75mm F3. I'd be careful with such things. The production of BS in such quantities might be treated as an industrial activity with all legal and fiscal consequences. As knowledge halves, bullshit doubles. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
