Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-24 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: Tom C
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested




I agree.


Which one do you want?

William Robb 





MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread J. C. O'Connell
To me, truly obsolete is something that has been replaced
by something else that is equal or superior in EVERY
aspect for same or less money, CURRENT NEW COST. 

If the new item has even one shortcoming or costs more than the old
one isnt truly obsolete.

This is based on buying new products of course and
when the old product reaches this defintiion, it
ceases to be made anymore due to marker forces. That doesn't mean if
you already own the old product its still not
useful, it may be, but you couldn't/wouldn't buy a new
old if it died because its been replaced by something
absolutely better for less or equal CURRENT NEW cost.

JCO


-Original Message-
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:18 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: What Would Make a DSLR Obsolete?


This requires a definition of obsolete. The one I use is:
A product is considered obsolete when it is no longer produced, that  
is, when it is replaced by something else by the original  
manufacturer or by another manufacturer.

By that definition, my Nikon FM was obsolete as soon as the FM2 model  
appeared. I bought the FM body, used, after the FM2 appeared on the  
market and used it for another 19 years. Someone else bought it after  
me and, presumably, is continuing to use it.

Obsolete does not imply not used or not usable.

Usability is gated by battery availability (not a problem), storage  
(not a problem) and software compatibility (not a problem). Also by  
reliability and durability ... so far (8000+ exposures on the DS  
body) I have seen little evidence of poor reliability or durability.

Most people these days seem to think of obsolete as meaning they must  
have the latest model or what they are using is unusable. The ramp up  
to current DSLR technology has been steep, but my feeling is that the  
industry passed a plateau point with the introduction of the Canon  
10D three years ago. I consider nearly any DSLR of that generation  
and beyond to be just as future usable as any 35mm SLR I've ever  
owned. No longer state of the art in speed, possibly no longer the  
best in noise, etc, but still perfectly usable for a long time  
despite being obsolete.

Regards:

Battery - AA and CRV3 will be with us forever, practically speaking.

Storage - There are already MILLIONS of flash storage cards in the  
world, each of which can be used for thousands of write/erase cycles.  
Just one represents at the very least 100,000 potential exposures in  
its lifetime. It will be a very very long time before there are no  
flash storage cards left to use.

Software - The software in use today for the handling of the storage  
medium is all standards based ... USB protocol connectivity, FAT16  
and FAT32 file system. That's not going to go away any time soon ...  
I can still read and write DOS floppies from 1982 (although I haven't  
in some years now) ... and new emergent file system standards  
generally speaking include compatibility to read older standards.  
Image formats like JPEG will be around practically speaking forever.  
Decoding and converting the Pentax RAW file format is something now  
encapsulated in open source C language code (dcraw by Dave Coffin) so  
even if current software products were to disappear entirely, someone  
could recompile a RAW converter utility on whatever operating system  
was then in place.

Nothing to worry about, in my opinion. This technology is here to  
stay, and I warrant will be feasible to use for the remainder of my  
lifetime. Advantageous, probably not: advances in camera technology  
and my desire to obtain better quality/perform will likely have me  
buying something new again at some point. But I do suspect that  
today's digital SLR bodies will be just as useful into the future as  
film SLR bodies will. When film manufacturers give up their last gasp  
and close down production due to lack of profits, and the last roll  
of film is consumed, that's it as there is no reusability in film  
storage media.

Godfrey


On Aug 23, 2005, at 3:47 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

 As the time approaches for my purchasing a DSLR, the comments about
 these
 cameras becoming obsolete keep running through my mind.  As a user  
 of older
 film bodies, which don't become obsolete and which continue to make  
 good
 pictures and use a wide variety of lenses, it's hard to consider  
 that in
 six months or a year a new DSLR will have become history.

 It seems that, unless there's a camera malfunction, these new 
 techno-marvels should continue to make decent pics for years to
 come, yet I
 keep hearing about how models just a few years old (or less) are  
 dated and
 need to be upgraded.  Am I missing something?  Is it just the  
 techno-buffs
 who are saying this - those who must have the latest and greatest,  
 or are
 there hidden issues, like software compatibility, lack of peripheral
 equipment (such as a memory card type being discontinued), 

Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: J. C. O'Connell
Subject: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested




To me, truly obsolete is something that has been replaced
by something else that is equal or superior in EVERY
aspect for same or less money, CURRENT NEW COST.



So you aren't willing to allow for the cost of the RD required to improve 
something?


William Robb 





Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread Tom C
No one asked for truly obsolete, just plain old obsolete.  Obsolete is in 
the mind of the beholder (user).


Tom C.





From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:48:05 -0600


- Original Message - From: J. C. O'Connell
Subject: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested




To me, truly obsolete is something that has been replaced
by something else that is equal or superior in EVERY
aspect for same or less money, CURRENT NEW COST.



So you aren't willing to allow for the cost of the RD required to improve 
something?


William Robb







Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: Tom C
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested



No one asked for truly obsolete, just plain old obsolete.  Obsolete is in 
the mind of the beholder (user).


Then there is found obsolescence, where your fleet of LX's sits idle because 
of the DSLR that suddenly found it's way into the house...


Seriously though, part of the definition of obsolete has to include just 
plain not using the thing anymore because you are using something else now.


I should probably sell some film cameras..

William Robb 





Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread Tom C

I agree.

Tom C.





From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:20:19 -0600


- Original Message - From: Tom C
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested



No one asked for truly obsolete, just plain old obsolete.  Obsolete is in 
the mind of the beholder (user).


Then there is found obsolescence, where your fleet of LX's sits idle 
because of the DSLR that suddenly found it's way into the house...


Seriously though, part of the definition of obsolete has to include just 
plain not using the thing anymore because you are using something else now.


I should probably sell some film cameras..

William Robb







RE: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those suggested....

2005-08-23 Thread J. C. O'Connell
No you are misunderstanding me , I didn't say the
new product had to be better, it just has to
equal the old one in every way and be cheaper to
produce and sell. When this happens the old ones are
obsolete and no longer produced and sold new.
 
For example, a optical mouse vs the old
ball mouse. ( not sure if this is a real case
because the ball mouses may still be cheaper
and still produced). But if an optical mouse
was actually cheaper to produce than a ball
mouse AND it outperformed the ball mouses
in every respect, then the ball mouses are
obsolete. That doesn't mean you might still
use one, but you wouldn't buy a new one
because it would make no sense to pay same
price or more for something inferior.

jco

-Original Message-
From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:48 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those
suggested



- Original Message - 
From: J. C. O'Connell
Subject: MY defintion of obsolete - its way different than those 
suggested


 To me, truly obsolete is something that has been replaced
 by something else that is equal or superior in EVERY
 aspect for same or less money, CURRENT NEW COST.


So you aren't willing to allow for the cost of the RD required to improve 
something?

William Robb