Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
Thanks to everyone who had information. Turned out moot, the batteries finally took a charge. Good to hear it is working again, but I'd say you'd be fine. You can get both Gel and AGM SLA batteries in larger capacities, though I can't recall one that'd fit in the QB1+. I have in the past made larger cases to accommodate bigger cells, though I also often used a separate (ie faster) charger in these cases. This also allows me to swap (cheap) SLA batteries without needing more than one battery back, and charge them externally. The changes in automotive batteries people are talking about are calcium lead acid batteries. This is not relevant to AGM/Gel SLAs. It may take it quite a bit longer to charge with the original charger, though. - Peter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo John Sessoms writes: > My concern is whether the charger can handle the higher Amp Hour rating. Hard to say. A good lead/acid-charger does constant voltage, current limited charging, and will simply take longer to charge a higher capacity battery. A cheaper, purpose built charger for a particular battery might get overloaded by a bigger battery. Thanks to everyone who had information. Turned out moot, the batteries finally took a charge. The Quantum Battery 1+ power switch is kind of peculiar, doesn't switch on until the lead for the strobe power is plugged in, unlike the Quantum battery 1. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
John Sessoms writes: > My concern is whether the charger can handle the higher Amp Hour rating. Hard to say. A good lead/acid-charger does constant voltage, current limited charging, and will simply take longer to charge a higher capacity battery. A cheaper, purpose built charger for a particular battery might get overloaded by a bigger battery. -tih -- SIGTHTBABW - a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way --Erik Naggum -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
John Sessoms wrote: From: mike wilson My understanding is that "dry" (ie gel, glass mat and all the other sorts) lead-acid cells require greater currents for charging than the plain vanilla version. You may want to do some serious research before taking the plunge. FWIW it seems likely that the cells would not charge if the circuitry was inadequate, rather than some damage being done to the electronics. Looking into it further, the existing battery is made up from 3-2V 2.5ah glass mat cells (sealed lead acid) series-ed together to make the 6V battery. They're the size of D-cell disposables, but have connection tabs on the top. http://www.enersysreservepower.com/scpf.asp?routine=scpf What you're saying is ... *IF* I substitute 3-2V 4.5ah cells it might not charge quite as efficiently, but the risk of actually damaging the charger is low? And a gel cell is just a different way of sealing the electrolyte into the battery, i.e. gelled rather than glass mat. They're both sealed lead acid batteries and have similar charging characteristics. Similar enough that the risk to the electronics is minimal? I understand that if I try this and it doesn't work, *I* am the one who is screwing it up. Again _my understanding_ is that, because of the construction, these types of batteries _require_ a higher current to initiate charging, so they wouldn't charge at all if an ordinary charger was used. At least, that's what the companies that produce chargers for them say. But all of my "knowledge" applies to batteries that are for motor vehicles and produce a lot more power than the ones you are using. They certainly could not be charged by wall warts. Generally, wall warts are such simple devices that they could indeed be damaged by an excessive current requirement although the low cost of replacement would not make this too much of a problem. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
From: mike wilson John Sessoms wrote: > Semi-OT anyway ... I use these with my Pentax cameras. > > I've got a Quantum Battery 1+ that I think the battery is dead or > discharged in storage until the battery is unrecoverable. > > It won't turn on, but the charging light & all the power leds light up > when the charger is plugged in. > > It takes a 6v 2.5ah sealed lead acid battery unit that looks like three > D-cells soldered together and shrink wrapped. > > http://tinyurl.com/2epvegu > > Batteries Plus here in Raleigh can get the individual cells, connect > them up and shrink wrap them to make a replacement. Probably cost around > $30.00 ... replacement power pack is going to be at least $150 if I can > even find one used. I don't think they make these any more. > > But I was wondering ... > > Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity > Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah > battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the > the 6v 2.5ah battery. > > No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to > burn up the circuitry. My understanding is that "dry" (ie gel, glass mat and all the other sorts) lead-acid cells require greater currents for charging than the plain vanilla version. You may want to do some serious research before taking the plunge. FWIW it seems likely that the cells would not charge if the circuitry was inadequate, rather than some damage being done to the electronics. Looking into it further, the existing battery is made up from 3-2V 2.5ah glass mat cells (sealed lead acid) series-ed together to make the 6V battery. They're the size of D-cell disposables, but have connection tabs on the top. http://www.enersysreservepower.com/scpf.asp?routine=scpf What you're saying is ... *IF* I substitute 3-2V 4.5ah cells it might not charge quite as efficiently, but the risk of actually damaging the charger is low? And a gel cell is just a different way of sealing the electrolyte into the battery, i.e. gelled rather than glass mat. They're both sealed lead acid batteries and have similar charging characteristics. Similar enough that the risk to the electronics is minimal? I understand that if I try this and it doesn't work, *I* am the one who is screwing it up. It may be moot, because as I research this, I'm not sure the higher amp-hour battery will fit in the case without modification. Plus, it just occurred to me that I haven't really ruled out the possibility the problem is a defective on/off switch. The back story is I picked up two of these Quantum battery packs about 2 years ago complete with wall warts & adapters for the Vivitar 285 flash for about $50 apiece, and they've been sitting in my closet ever since because I didn't room to set up a studio. Now that I'm back in school, I'm going to be staying in an apartment during the week and I've got a large living/dining room combination with NO FURNITURE ... perfect for me to set up my light stands and all the other studio stuff I've been accumulating with no place to use. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
John Sessoms wrote: From: "William Robb" -- From: "Doug Franklin" Subject: Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs > On 2010-06-12 14:27, John Sessoms wrote: > >> Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity >> Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah >> battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the >> the 6v 2.5ah battery. >> >> No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to >> burn up the circuitry. > > I don't know enough about gel cells versus NiCd cells to tell you for > sure. You certainly can redo the cells that way, but I'm guessing the > built in monitoring and charging circuitry may not be appropriate for gel > cels unless they charge and discharge pretty much identically to NiCds. > So you might have to disconnect or ignore the built in circuits and gin up > a separate charger that's appropriate for gels. OTOH, you might be able > to find higher capacity NiCds in the same form factor, and that's a > no-brainer switch out that I've done on numerous pieces of gear over the > years, but not a flash battery pack. > My old Metz 402 flash was equipped standard with a wet cell, and could use a NiCad pack. There was a switch on the thing for adapting the charging circuit from one to the other. When I went to a gelled acid battery, I also had to buy a separate charger to enable charging, as the 402 pack wouldn't charge the dry-fit battery, though it certainly did well using them. Anyway, I don't think John will have any problems with using gel cells, but he will probably need to make some nods to the charging circuit. They're both sealed lead acid batteries. I'm just wondering if the charger built to work with the 2.5ah battery will blow up if I try to use a 4.5ah battery. Generally, that would not be the case. The lower-rated charger would just take longer to charge the cells fully. But I do believe that there are complications with the newer versions of lead-acid batteries. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
From: "William Robb" -- From: "Doug Franklin" Subject: Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs > On 2010-06-12 14:27, John Sessoms wrote: > >> Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity >> Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah >> battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the >> the 6v 2.5ah battery. >> >> No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to >> burn up the circuitry. > > I don't know enough about gel cells versus NiCd cells to tell you for > sure. You certainly can redo the cells that way, but I'm guessing the > built in monitoring and charging circuitry may not be appropriate for gel > cels unless they charge and discharge pretty much identically to NiCds. > So you might have to disconnect or ignore the built in circuits and gin up > a separate charger that's appropriate for gels. OTOH, you might be able > to find higher capacity NiCds in the same form factor, and that's a > no-brainer switch out that I've done on numerous pieces of gear over the > years, but not a flash battery pack. > My old Metz 402 flash was equipped standard with a wet cell, and could use a NiCad pack. There was a switch on the thing for adapting the charging circuit from one to the other. When I went to a gelled acid battery, I also had to buy a separate charger to enable charging, as the 402 pack wouldn't charge the dry-fit battery, though it certainly did well using them. Anyway, I don't think John will have any problems with using gel cells, but he will probably need to make some nods to the charging circuit. They're both sealed lead acid batteries. I'm just wondering if the charger built to work with the 2.5ah battery will blow up if I try to use a 4.5ah battery. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
From: Doug Franklin On 2010-06-12 14:27, John Sessoms wrote: > Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity > Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah > battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the > the 6v 2.5ah battery. > > No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to > burn up the circuitry. I don't know enough about gel cells versus NiCd cells to tell you for sure. You certainly can redo the cells that way, but I'm guessing the built in monitoring and charging circuitry may not be appropriate for gel cels unless they charge and discharge pretty much identically to NiCds. So you might have to disconnect or ignore the built in circuits and gin up a separate charger that's appropriate for gels. OTOH, you might be able to find higher capacity NiCds in the same form factor, and that's a no-brainer switch out that I've done on numerous pieces of gear over the years, but not a flash battery pack. The cells in the Battery 1+ are not NiCd cells. They're a sealed lead acid battery. The Gell Cell is another sealed lead acid battery, but I think a slightly different construction. My concern is whether the charger can handle the higher Amp Hour rating. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
John Sessoms wrote: Semi-OT anyway ... I use these with my Pentax cameras. I've got a Quantum Battery 1+ that I think the battery is dead or discharged in storage until the battery is unrecoverable. It won't turn on, but the charging light & all the power leds light up when the charger is plugged in. It takes a 6v 2.5ah sealed lead acid battery unit that looks like three D-cells soldered together and shrink wrapped. http://tinyurl.com/2epvegu Batteries Plus here in Raleigh can get the individual cells, connect them up and shrink wrap them to make a replacement. Probably cost around $30.00 ... replacement power pack is going to be at least $150 if I can even find one used. I don't think they make these any more. But I was wondering ... Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the the 6v 2.5ah battery. No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to burn up the circuitry. My understanding is that "dry" (ie gel, glass mat and all the other sorts) lead-acid cells require greater currents for charging than the plain vanilla version. You may want to do some serious research before taking the plunge. FWIW it seems likely that the cells would not charge if the circuitry was inadequate, rather than some damage being done to the electronics. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
Hello John, I have replaced my both of my Battery 2 cells using this company. Worked like a champ. Very easy. www.dasaga.com -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, June 12, 2010, 11:27:00 AM, you wrote: JS> Semi-OT anyway ... I use these with my Pentax cameras. JS> I've got a Quantum Battery 1+ that I think the battery is dead or JS> discharged in storage until the battery is unrecoverable. JS> It won't turn on, but the charging light & all the power leds light up JS> when the charger is plugged in. JS> It takes a 6v 2.5ah sealed lead acid battery unit that looks like three JS> D-cells soldered together and shrink wrapped. JS> http://tinyurl.com/2epvegu JS> Batteries Plus here in Raleigh can get the individual cells, connect JS> them up and shrink wrap them to make a replacement. Probably cost around JS> $30.00 ... replacement power pack is going to be at least $150 if I can JS> even find one used. I don't think they make these any more. JS> But I was wondering ... JS> Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity JS> Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah JS> battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the JS> the 6v 2.5ah battery. JS> No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to JS> burn up the circuitry. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
-- From: "Doug Franklin" Subject: Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs On 2010-06-12 14:27, John Sessoms wrote: Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the the 6v 2.5ah battery. No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to burn up the circuitry. I don't know enough about gel cells versus NiCd cells to tell you for sure. You certainly can redo the cells that way, but I'm guessing the built in monitoring and charging circuitry may not be appropriate for gel cels unless they charge and discharge pretty much identically to NiCds. So you might have to disconnect or ignore the built in circuits and gin up a separate charger that's appropriate for gels. OTOH, you might be able to find higher capacity NiCds in the same form factor, and that's a no-brainer switch out that I've done on numerous pieces of gear over the years, but not a flash battery pack. My old Metz 402 flash was equipped standard with a wet cell, and could use a NiCad pack. There was a switch on the thing for adapting the charging circuit from one to the other. When I went to a gelled acid battery, I also had to buy a separate charger to enable charging, as the 402 pack wouldn't charge the dry-fit battery, though it certainly did well using them. Anyway, I don't think John will have any problems with using gel cells, but he will probably need to make some nods to the charging circuit. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
On 2010-06-12 14:27, John Sessoms wrote: Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the the 6v 2.5ah battery. No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to burn up the circuitry. I don't know enough about gel cells versus NiCd cells to tell you for sure. You certainly can redo the cells that way, but I'm guessing the built in monitoring and charging circuitry may not be appropriate for gel cels unless they charge and discharge pretty much identically to NiCds. So you might have to disconnect or ignore the built in circuits and gin up a separate charger that's appropriate for gels. OTOH, you might be able to find higher capacity NiCds in the same form factor, and that's a no-brainer switch out that I've done on numerous pieces of gear over the years, but not a flash battery pack. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT: Replacing cells in Battery Packs
Semi-OT anyway ... I use these with my Pentax cameras. I've got a Quantum Battery 1+ that I think the battery is dead or discharged in storage until the battery is unrecoverable. It won't turn on, but the charging light & all the power leds light up when the charger is plugged in. It takes a 6v 2.5ah sealed lead acid battery unit that looks like three D-cells soldered together and shrink wrapped. http://tinyurl.com/2epvegu Batteries Plus here in Raleigh can get the individual cells, connect them up and shrink wrap them to make a replacement. Probably cost around $30.00 ... replacement power pack is going to be at least $150 if I can even find one used. I don't think they make these any more. But I was wondering ... Is there any reason I can't replace that battery with a larger capacity Gel Cell if I can find one that will fit inside the case? If a 6v 4ah battery will fit in the case, could I safely use that in place of the the 6v 2.5ah battery. No warranty issues, these are OLD power packs. But I'd prefer not to burn up the circuitry. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
