Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
In a message dated 8/25/2006 1:28:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html Technical Info.: Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) Not a bad picture. But if you were aiming for social commentary, looks like a comment on laundry. :-) I would prefer a wider shot of the buildings. Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Bob, I thought Thomas Dworzak's photos were hit & miss. We here in the USA have all been indundated by nightly video of the misery and squallor of those who could not or did not evacuate the city of New Orleans. I liked the interactive essay by Larry Towell much better. It put a real scale to the destruction and upheaval of the whole area. Regards, Bob S. On 8/27/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's a very good set of photos of the effects of Katrina by Thomas > Dworak on Slate at the moment > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20060825/ > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of P. J. Alling > > Sent: 26 August 2006 15:59 > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > > > > I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in > Louisiana, > > but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they > > > probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was > > handed out in > > the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as > > booze, firearms > > and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In > > other words > > it a choice not a necessity. > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
There's a very good set of photos of the effects of Katrina by Thomas Dworak on Slate at the moment http://todayspictures.slate.com/20060825/ -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of P. J. Alling > Sent: 26 August 2006 15:59 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > > I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in Louisiana, > but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they > probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was > handed out in > the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as > booze, firearms > and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In > other words > it a choice not a necessity. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Amen to that Dan! The replacement housing failed on social organization issues, but that failing was going to occur anyway. Regards, Bob S. On 8/26/06, Daniel J. Matyola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I share your dislike of Urban Renewal "projects." Nevertheless, many > of the neighborhoods that were torn down in and after the sixties were > far from "vibrant." Many were far worse than the dingy residential > wharehouses that replaced them. > > On 8/25/06, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > > neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
I share your dislike of Urban Renewal "projects." Nevertheless, many of the neighborhoods that were torn down in and after the sixties were far from "vibrant." Many were far worse than the dingy residential wharehouses that replaced them. On 8/25/06, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
> good intentions it's an interesting picture. the buildings are likely low income housing (I say 'likely because you could not know for sure unless you were told). all the windows in the frame are boarded up, which would imply failure of the project, yet there are blankets hanging out to dry, which asks the question "whose"? All of this is of course made clear by some of your earlier comments. I am sure that there are many other places in the world that are much more "ghetto" than this, but to me that is not the point of the photo. The way I see it, the point is to show the failure of the housing projects. I think your photo does that well. The content of the photo shows the project in it's demise, while the style of the effects that you applied (50's era B&W) is a reminder of the period in which the project began. OR you could look at it in a weird/ironic/scifi way, being that it is a picture that was taken in the 50's of how the project/experiment would end up. But maybe that's a little too much over-thinking on my part :) In short... nice photo (and personally, I would make the caption simply. 'Good Intentions') russell -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
I was making a comment on a subset of people from which you have generalized an attack. I'm sorry if Ive offended you. Just try to be more open minded when you read my response and those interspersed in your post. I'm not condemning the people who truly need help, and never meant to imply that everyone simply took the government and private largess and spent it on what to most people would be considered luxuries and entertainment, (or maybe on sin if you're so inclined). However a a fairly large minority did. Just throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it, which is in large measure what was done However it looks like something is being done, and makes certain people feel good so that's what happens. Especially if they don't have to directly deal with the results. I was making a rye comment on the unintended consequences 1.) the group of people who can't control their urges gets to satisfy them, 2.) a certain group of people who have no interest in legal work become better armed to better peruse their true vocations, 3.) a certain class of relatively attractive women make more money to help maintain their lifestyle. It went without saying, or so I thought, that a large number of people who found themselves in temporarily bad positions were able to feed and cloth themselves and their children. I don't think I was passing judgment on anything except the programs. For some the problem is temporary and gets solved, for some their problems never get solved. Some just leach off the good intentions until the tit is dry and go on to other places. graywolf wrote: >Haven't dealt much with assistance programs have you, Peter? You have >the stereotype down pat, but the reality escapes you. You do not replace >the infrastructure of a major city all that quickly. Also while it may >have been possible for people who owned their homes and had insurance to >replace them by now, people who lived in apartments and rooms are most >likely still pretty much out of luck. Unfortunately most folks deal with >hopelessness by drinking, getting religion, or both. That hasn't changed >much in the past million years or so. > > I won't even comment on the city, It's debatable weather not New Orleans should be rebuilt at all. The fact that the local, city and state governments are corrupt and inept only makes it worse. Yes some people do cope with hopelessness by drinking, however just giving them money doesn't help them. Besides most of those who spent their money that way probably won't be returning to New Orleans soon. They'll wait to see how things play out. The majority of the poor both working and otherwise who were displaced, who used the money as it was intended, probably won't return either, they'll have built lives for themselves elsewhere, by the time the city is rebuilt, even if they loved the place. >Also our society seems to think the way to deal with people who are not >quite self-sufficient is to put them on the street to sink or swim. Give >them some food-stamps, and a run down demoralizing dangerous place to >live, then blame them because they do not become prosperous happy people. > > And where did you get the idea that I didn't know or understand this? Or for that matter might approved of it. I deal with people who work with shelters and their inhabitants. (I'd say they were friends of mine but that's such a cliché). I'm well aware of their situation. My beef is that nothing is done to separate those who are capable of being happy productive people, from those who aren't and treat them according to their needs. >An interesting thing is that my therapist says that it is now known that >addictive people have an gene that causes the source of their addiction >make them feel about like normal people do about sex; kind of a hard >thing for someone with less than normal willpower to deal with. I give >thanks, often, that I do not have that gene. > > Your therapist is right based on my reading. However I've also got friends and relatives, a former client even, who have that gene. I've seen them fall off the wagon, to both my personal and financial distress, there isn't a lot I could do. Your point? >Also, the assistance system, at least in the US, is set up to victimize >the assisted. You are caught in catch 22. Social Security Disability at >least has a way that one can gradually get off of it. All the locally >administered assistance programs are all or nothing affairs. For >instance if I was able to go back to work, I would immediately lose my >rent, and medical assistance. That means I would have to make more than >my SS + assistance to break even. And that does not include the monster >$31/mo in food stamps I would lose . > > See my comment to your first paragraph. >Also it really nifty how they help with cost of living increases. Social >Security gives you a raise from $627 to $652/mo, while the cost of fuel, >food
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
That's probably true too, though harder to trace. However since both the Red Cross and FEMA gave out bank cards not cash it was relatively easy to compile statistics on where the supposed beneficiaries spent theirs. mike wilson wrote: >P. J. Alling wrote: > > > >>I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in Louisiana, >>but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they >>probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was handed out in >>the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as booze, firearms >>and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In other words >>it a choice not a necessity. >> >> > > From what I can gather, a significant proportion of it went into the >offshore bank accounts of the "peoples' representatives" that were >supposed to be administrating it before it even went near those it was >supposed to help. The world never changes. > > > >>mike wilson wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>P. J. Alling wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot >>>>better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place is bleak, >>>>at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living >>>>there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because >>>>there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are >>>>still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are boarded up, (the >>>>windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and as soon as >>>>there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is >>>>coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Bet the folks still living in tents after Katrina would be glad of the >>>use of them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Bob W wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a >>>>>friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new >>>>>to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but >>>>>resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks >>>>>working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of >>>>>squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and >>>>>they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary >>>>>lower-middle-class homes. >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Cheers, >>>>>Bob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>-Original Message- >>>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>>>>Behalf Of P. J. Alling >>>>>>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 >>>>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>>>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >>>>>> >>>>>>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>back >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was >>>>>>attempted. It >>>>>>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>free >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >>>>>>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Re
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Haven't dealt much with assistance programs have you, Peter? You have the stereotype down pat, but the reality escapes you. You do not replace the infrastructure of a major city all that quickly. Also while it may have been possible for people who owned their homes and had insurance to replace them by now, people who lived in apartments and rooms are most likely still pretty much out of luck. Unfortunately most folks deal with hopelessness by drinking, getting religion, or both. That hasn't changed much in the past million years or so. Also our society seems to think the way to deal with people who are not quite self-sufficient is to put them on the street to sink or swim. Give them some food-stamps, and a run down demoralizing dangerous place to live, then blame them because they do not become prosperous happy people. An interesting thing is that my therapist says that it is now known that addictive people have an gene that causes the source of their addiction make them feel about like normal people do about sex; kind of a hard thing for someone with less than normal willpower to deal with. I give thanks, often, that I do not have that gene. Also, the assistance system, at least in the US, is set up to victimize the assisted. You are caught in catch 22. Social Security Disability at least has a way that one can gradually get off of it. All the locally administered assistance programs are all or nothing affairs. For instance if I was able to go back to work, I would immediately lose my rent, and medical assistance. That means I would have to make more than my SS + assistance to break even. And that does not include the monster $31/mo in food stamps I would lose . Also it really nifty how they help with cost of living increases. Social Security gives you a raise from $627 to $652/mo, while the cost of fuel, food, power have almost doubled. Oh well! But wait, then they cut your food stamps by $20, and your rent assistance by $8, giving you a net COL increase of ($3). It is enough in itself to drive someone to drink. It is so absurd it is actually humorous. I often tell folks that the difference between being broke and being poor is that broke is temporary. But the other day I realized that they are not the same thing at all because when I was working I was often broke. Now that I am poor I am almost never broke, I can not afford to be because there is not enough slack in my budget to make up for any overspending. I used to feel pretty much the same way you seem to, but now I have a very different perspective. Even my attitude towards those who cheat the system has changed, because the people running it like to "just say, no" to applicants. Except for food-stamps all the assistance I have receive I found out about from someone who was cheating and thus knew all the ropes, nothing has been volunteered by the people who are supposed to help. In fact, once you find out you are eligible for some program, then you have to fight tooth and nail to get it, those who won't, or can not, do that just end up on the street bumming money for another bottle of wine, or quart of beer. BTW, this comment has nothing to do with the PESO -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- P. J. Alling wrote: > I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in Louisiana, > but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they > probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was handed out in > the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as booze, firearms > and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In other words > it a choice not a necessity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
P. J. Alling wrote: > I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in Louisiana, > but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they > probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was handed out in > the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as booze, firearms > and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In other words > it a choice not a necessity. From what I can gather, a significant proportion of it went into the offshore bank accounts of the "peoples' representatives" that were supposed to be administrating it before it even went near those it was supposed to help. The world never changes. > > mike wilson wrote: > > >>P. J. Alling wrote: >> >> >> >>>I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot >>>better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place is bleak, >>>at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living >>>there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because >>>there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are >>>still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are boarded up, (the >>>windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and as soon as >>>there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is >>>coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. >>> >>> >> >>Bet the folks still living in tents after Katrina would be glad of the >>use of them. >> >> >> >> >>>Bob W wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a >>>>friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new >>>>to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but >>>>resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks >>>>working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of >>>>squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and >>>>they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary >>>>lower-middle-class homes. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Cheers, >>>>Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>-Original Message- >>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>>>Behalf Of P. J. Alling >>>>>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 >>>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >>>>> >>>>>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>back >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was >>>>>attempted. It >>>>>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>free >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >>>>>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >>>>>neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>Now >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the >>>>>ones that >>>>>were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look >>>>>better, but >>>>>not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W >>>>>because I was >>>>>attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Technical Info.: >>>>> >>>>>Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) >>>>>smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) >>>>> >>>>>B&W conversion Note: >>>>> >>>>>This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've >>>>>used before, >>>>>but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film >>>>>grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm >>>>>film from the >>>>>1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any >>>>>particular film but maybe like some film. >>>>> >>>>>As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>>Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as >>>>>modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess >>>>>the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and >>>>>recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on >>>>>others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do >>>>>anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it >>>>> >>>>>P. J. O'Rourke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>>PDML@pdml.net >>>>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
I'm not going to say you're wrong, anything is possible in Louisiana, but if anyone is still living in a tent this long after Katrina they probably deserve it. A lot of the relief money that was handed out in the immediate aftermath was spent on necessities such as booze, firearms and strippers, when it was meant for food and shelter. In other words it a choice not a necessity. mike wilson wrote: >P. J. Alling wrote: > > >>I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot >>better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place is bleak, >>at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living >>there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because >>there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are >>still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are boarded up, (the >>windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and as soon as >>there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is >>coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. >> >> > >Bet the folks still living in tents after Katrina would be glad of the >use of them. > > > >>Bob W wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a >>>friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new >>>to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but >>>resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks >>>working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of >>>squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and >>>they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary >>>lower-middle-class homes. >>> >>>-- >>>Cheers, >>>Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-Original Message- >>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>>Behalf Of P. J. Alling >>>>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 >>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >>>> >>>>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>back >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was >>>>attempted. It >>>>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>free >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >>>>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >>>>neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Now >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the >>>>ones that >>>>were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look >>>>better, but >>>>not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W >>>>because I was >>>>attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Technical Info.: >>>> >>>>Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) >>>>smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) >>>> >>>>B&W conversion Note: >>>> >>>>This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've >>>>used before, >>>>but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film >>>>grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm >>>>film from the >>>>1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any >>>>particular film but maybe like some film. >>>> >>>>As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. >>>> >>>>-- >>>> >>>>Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as >>>>modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess >>>>the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and >>>>recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on >>>>others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do >>>>anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it >>>> >>>>P. J. O'Rourke >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>PDML@pdml.net >>>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
P. J. Alling wrote: > I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot > better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place is bleak, > at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living > there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because > there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are > still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are boarded up, (the > windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and as soon as > there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is > coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. Bet the folks still living in tents after Katrina would be glad of the use of them. > > Bob W wrote: > > >>Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a >>friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new >>to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but >>resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks >>working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of >>squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and >>they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary >>lower-middle-class homes. >> >>-- >>Cheers, >>Bob >> >> >> >> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>Behalf Of P. J. Alling >>>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >>> >>>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little >>> >>> >> >>back >> >> >> >>>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was >>>attempted. It >>>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got >>> >>> >> >>free >> >> >> >>>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >>>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >>>neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. >>> >>> >> >>Now >> >> >> >>>they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the >>>ones that >>>were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look >>>better, but >>>not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W >>>because I was >>>attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html >> >> >> >>>Technical Info.: >>> >>>Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) >>>smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) >>> >>>B&W conversion Note: >>> >>>This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've >>>used before, >>>but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film >>>grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm >>>film from the >>>1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any >>>particular film but maybe like some film. >>> >>>As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as >>>modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess >>>the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and >>>recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on >>>others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do >>>anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it >>> >>>P. J. O'Rourke >>> >>> >>>-- >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>PDML@pdml.net >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
On 25/8/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: >One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back >story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was attempted. It >was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free >government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now >they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the ones that >were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look better, but >not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because I was >attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > >http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html I hope you won't mind me saying that's the best pic I've ever seen you post. Excellent. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Much nicer than the projects in Chicago, where I worked as a teacher some thirty years ago. Not seedy enough to communicate a social message. Paul On Aug 25, 2006, at 4:42 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: > One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back > story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was > attempted. It > was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free > government housing. So local governments got grants to build this > stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now > they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the ones > that > were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look > better, but > not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because > I was > attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > > http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > > Technical Info.: > > Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) > smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) > > B&W conversion Note: > > This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've used > before, > but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film > grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm film from > the > 1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any > particular film but maybe like some film. > > As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > > Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern > America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same > qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no > authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their > material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are > mean for the fun of it > > P. J. O'Rourke > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
> Usually color makes a bad place look better, but > not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because I was > attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > After reading the posts where some other people said the place didn't look *that* bad (can't decide if I agree with them or not), I started wondering if it might not have seemed worse i colour, and thus have been able to show what you were thinking about more effectively without the B&W conversion. Can't be sure without seeing it, of course... - Toralf -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Hi, I'm not saying your pictures are of middle-class places - the pictures my friend took were. But yours don't seem to me to be as bad as perhaps you think. There's a lot around that's a lot worse. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of P. J. Alling > Sent: 25 August 2006 22:30 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > > I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot > better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place > is bleak, > at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living > there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because > there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are > still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are > boarded up, (the > windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and > as soon as > there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is > coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. > > Bob W wrote: > > >Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a > >friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new > >to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but > >resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks > >working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of > >squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and > >they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary > >lower-middle-class homes. > > > >-- > >Cheers, > > Bob > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >>Behalf Of P. J. Alling > >>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 > >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > >> > >>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little > >> > >> > >back > > > > > >>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was > >>attempted. It > >>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got > >> > >> > >free > > > > > >>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this > >>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > >>neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. > >> > >> > >Now > > > > > >>they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the > >>ones that > >>were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look > >>better, but > >>not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W > >>because I was > >>attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > > > > > >>Technical Info.: > >> > >>Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) > >>smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) > >> > >>B&W conversion Note: > >> > >>This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've > >>used before, > >>but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film > >>grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm > >>film from the > >>1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any > >>particular film but maybe like some film. > >> > >>As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > >> > >>-- > >> > >>Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as > >>modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess > >>the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and > >>recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on > >>others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do > >>anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it > >> > >>P. J. O'Rourke > >> > >> > >>-- > >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>PDML@pdml.net > >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > > Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as > modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess > the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and > recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on > others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do > anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it > > P. J. O'Rourke > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
I guess England is different. Middle class people can afford a lot better in the US. Canada too probably. To my eye this place is bleak, at best, warehouses for unwanted people. The people who were living there knew that and treated it accordingly. It's clean now because there is almost no one left living there. One or two apartments are still occupied, the rest are empty and the windows are boarded up, (the windows were mostly broken as of a couple of weeks ago), and as soon as there are places to move the last couple of tenants that project is coming down. If you like being warehoused more power to you. Bob W wrote: >Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a >friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new >to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but >resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks >working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of >squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and >they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary >lower-middle-class homes. > >-- >Cheers, > Bob > > > >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>Behalf Of P. J. Alling >>Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >> >>One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little >> >> >back > > >>story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was >>attempted. It >>was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got >> >> >free > > >>government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >>stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >>neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. >> >> >Now > > >>they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the >>ones that >>were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look >>better, but >>not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W >>because I was >>attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. >> >> >> >> >http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > > >>Technical Info.: >> >>Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) >>smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) >> >>B&W conversion Note: >> >>This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've >>used before, >>but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film >>grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm >>film from the >>1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any >>particular film but maybe like some film. >> >>As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. >> >>-- >> >>Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as >>modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess >>the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and >>recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on >>others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do >>anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it >> >>P. J. O'Rourke >> >> >>-- >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>PDML@pdml.net >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Those places look ok. Your picture reminds me of a project that a friend of mine did when we were about 20 years old and relatively new to photography. He comes from rather a privileged background, but resolved to take socially-aware pictures, so he spent some weeks working on his project. At the end he showed his shocking expose of squalid housing and bad conditions to the local socialist rag, and they laughed themselves sick. He'd taken pictures of ordinary lower-middle-class homes. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of P. J. Alling > Sent: 25 August 2006 21:42 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > > One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back > story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was > attempted. It > was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free > government housing. So local governments got grants to build this > stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now > they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the > ones that > were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look > better, but > not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W > because I was > attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > > http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > > Technical Info.: > > Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) > smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) > > B&W conversion Note: > > This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've > used before, > but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film > grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm > film from the > 1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any > particular film but maybe like some film. > > As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > > Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as > modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess > the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and > recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on > others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do > anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it > > P. J. O'Rourke > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
Sorry P.J. but this doesn't do anything for me. I'm very familiar with the concept, as I use to live in an area of New Jersey where the "Projects" were common, in fact I use to work for a liquor store as a delivery guy & delivered a lot of liquor to the "Projects". The one you've chosen to depict actually looks quite well kept up & not the usual run down condition I became familiar with. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = > One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back > story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was attempted. It > was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free > government housing. So local governments got grants to build this > stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor > neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now > they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the ones that > were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look better, but > not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because I was > attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > > http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > > Technical Info.: > > Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) > smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) > > B&W conversion Note: > > This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've used before, > but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film > grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm film from the > 1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any > particular film but maybe like some film. > > As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > > Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern > America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities > they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are > completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be > made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it > > P. J. O'Rourke > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
I didn't know you visited Leningrad! Strong image. Tom C. "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." >From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan = >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:42:03 -0400 > >One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back >story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was attempted. It >was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free >government housing. So local governments got grants to build this >stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor >neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now >they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the ones that >were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look better, but >not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because I was >attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. > >http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html > >Technical Info.: > >Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) >smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) > >B&W conversion Note: > >This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've used before, >but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film >grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm film from the >1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any >particular film but maybe like some film. > >As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > >-- > >Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's >favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats >are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent >on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything >useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it > >P. J. O'Rourke > > >-- >PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >PDML@pdml.net >http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
PESO -- Good Intentions + Bad Plan =
One more PESO today. This one's a B&W conversion, with a little back story. In the 1950's and 1960's a social experiment was attempted. It was thought that lives of the poor would be improved if they got free government housing. So local governments got grants to build this stuff. Under the banner of "Urban Renewal" vibrant but poor neighborhoods were torn down and replaced with places like this. Now they are being replaced with neighborhoods that look like the ones that were there originally. Usually color makes a bad place look better, but not this place, it still looks like a prison. I chose B&W because I was attempting a gritty old time newspaper look. http://www.mindspring.com/~megazip/PESO_--_goodintentionsbadplan.html Technical Info.: Pentax *ist-Ds ISO 1600 @ 1/4000sec (Av) smc Pentax F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 @f8.0 (70mm) B&W conversion Note: This is a many layered conversion. It's the same one I've used before, but I added a copy layer just above the background to emulate film grain. I was looking for something like a fine grain 35mm film from the 1960s or 1970s sort of like Plus-X Pan. It doesn't look like any particular film but maybe like some film. As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
