Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Montreal has had computerized subway operation since before 1976 (it was in place by the 76 Olympics). No train operators' jobs were lost. They still sit at their post with a big red mushroom button ready to be pushed in case an emergency stop is required. Along with one other train operator (who sits in the driver's compartment of the last car) he also operates the passenger doors. I am sure that if Seattle or any other city implemented automatic operation of their subways operators would still be required as a set of eyes for emergencies, even if some sort of hazard sensing system were installed. A few have mentioned how close to the platform edge some in this photo are. Some of Toronto's older stations have very narrow platforms. I guess they didn't have the foresight in the early fifties to see today's crowds. Even so, with one person standing against the wall there is barely room for a person to pass by without being on the yellow warning strip. I know I feel uncomfortable. When a train comes into this station and others with narrow platforms I prefer to stand with my back flat against the wall; not that I'm afraid of a pusher as much as an inadvertent bump by a passerby. Very poor design no matter when they were made... Thanks to all who commented and looked! cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Sent: February 25, 2013 2/25/13 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming IMHO having computer controlled car sets would make this easy to implement. Unfortunately, at least here in Seattle, I don't believe unionized drivers would give up the controls, knowing management would want to pay them less for working in a less dangerous environment. So goes the world. On Feb 24, 2013, at 20:05 , Bob Sullivan wrote: Not to difficult if all the cars run on the line, old and new, have the same length and doors in the same place on the car. It's a matter of physical dimensions on the capital equipment you already own. On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms [...] I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. It would probably be *very* expensive to retro-fit them to existing systems. You not only have to install the door mechanism, but find some way to make the trains stop in exactly the right spot every time so they line up with the doors. I don't think it would be particularly difficult. The trains have to stop in more or less the same place anyway, and regulars get to know where the doors are. When they built the Jubilee Line extension here a few years ago they put platform doors on at the new stations, but the old stations still don't have them, so there is a mixture on the one line. For a few weeks after the new ones opened there was the occasional delay while they lined the trains up, but that was just teething trouble, presumably until they got the tolerances right and all the drivers fully trained. It's far more convenient than having unpredictable delays and line closures because some selfish sod has thrown themself in front of a train. B Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn’t need to lug a camera.” –Lewis Hine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of knarftheria...@gmail.com Montreal has had computerized subway operation since before 1976 (it was in place by the 76 Olympics). No train operators' jobs were lost. They still sit at their post with a big red mushroom button ready to be pushed in case an emergency stop is required. Along with one other train operator (who sits in the driver's compartment of the last car) he also operates the passenger doors. The whole of the Docklands Light Railway here operates without drivers, and there really ought to be a word in the language for the feeling of disappointment you get when you think you're going to get to sit right at the front but just at the last moment some kids turn up and you really can't just shove them out of the way and take the seat yourself. Anyway, the trains still have a 'train captain' whose job it is to, er, stand there doing not much since there's an automatic announcer, the doors unlock automatically when the train stops, there's no big red button (otherwise a passenger would sit on it). I think their main function is to make sure you don't take a bike on unless it is fully folded (and they won't accept that a non-folding bike is of necessity fully folded at all times). Ocassionally they wave a sensor in your general direction to make sure your electronic ticket is up-to-date. Anyway again, since their job is far less skilled than a driver's job, they cost far less to hire and train, and the network is more or less immune from strikes because the 'train captains' can be sacked very cheaply. B I am sure that if Seattle or any other city implemented automatic operation of their subways operators would still be required as a set of eyes for emergencies, even if some sort of hazard sensing system were installed. [...] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
On Feb 25, 2013, at 06:08 , knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: Montreal has had computerized subway operation since before 1976 (it was in place by the 76 Olympics). No train operators' jobs were lost. They still sit at their post with a big red mushroom button ready to be pushed in case an emergency stop is required. Along with one other train operator (who sits in the driver's compartment of the last car) he also operates the passenger doors. I am sure that if Seattle or any other city implemented automatic operation of their subways operators would still be required as a set of eyes for emergencies, even if some sort of hazard sensing system were installed. On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:11 , Bob W wrote: Anyway, the trains still have a 'train captain' whose job it is to, er, stand there doing not much since there's an automatic announcer, the doors unlock automatically when the train stops, there's no big red button (otherwise a passenger would sit on it). I think their main function is to make sure you don't take a bike on unless it is fully folded (and they won't accept that a non-folding bike is of necessity fully folded at all times). Ocassionally they wave a sensor in your general direction to make sure your electronic ticket is up-to-date. Anyway again, since their job is far less skilled than a driver's job, they cost far less to hire and train, and the network is more or less immune from strikes because the 'train captains' can be sacked very cheaply. A few years ago Seattle built and implemented a Light Rail system at great expense. Decades ago they built a tunnel through downtown with 5 or 6 stops, but the money for rail traffic never materialized. It therefore became the Bus Tunnel with ventilation inadequate for the fumes from the diesel buses. So they bought a fleet of hybrid buses that could power through the tunnel on electric power, but not enough of them. They then upgraded the ventilation within the tunnel to cope with the many diesel buses still needed for the rider traffic. All this time they were using Electric Buses called Trolleys above on the regular streets. Then they closed the tunnel for two years to tear out the original tracks for light rail and regrade them because they were the wrong gauge, and the wrong height from the cars to the platforms. Finally finished the light rail system downtown several years ago with design promises to reach out to the suburbs north, south, and east of Seattle. That has been set aside as too expensive at this time. Developers were willing to spend big bucks to buy the land the city had been using to house and maintain an antique rail trolley running from the historic Pioneer Square district over to and down the waterfront and back for tourists so they could see all the cool places they could spend money. Without the barn, there was no place to maintain the old trolleys, so they modified several old buses to 'look like' they were trolleys to handle the load of tourists, especially since they now were docking dozens of cruise ships a season with millions to spend. Next they built a short line light rail from downtown to South Lake Union, promising developers foot traffic if they would invest in replacing much of the old commercial area with new shiny apartments and shops. There went our Pro camera shop and custom processing labs. For decades the downtown businesses had been taxed as a subsidy to provide free bus fare in the core downtown area to encourage shoppers to park elsewhere, preventing overcrowding. When that only partially worked, giving the homeless a place to sleep and allowing them to travel all over the area for free, they last year did away with the service, charging everyone everywhere. Without the incentive to shop downtown with free mobility, business dropped off some. Then they tried to kill it altogether by placing new digital parking meters throughout downtown, raising the parking rates to cover the costs. These meters also notified the meter maids and men when a meter expired, so the chances of a big old fine rose considerably. Then came the 2008 financial crisis. And I moved well outside of the city to the rural setting I now enjoy. I have seen Seattle several times in the past 5 years as I drove past it. For $12.00 I can avoid that by taking the ferry to my sister's instead of driving the long way around. The promise to link the light rail up to the northern areas of Puget Sound is pretty much dead, though maps can still be found. Doesn't look like Seattle and Tacoma will be linked at the airport as planned, though Seattle's portion of that system now reaches the airport. And, all the operators of all the systems are still 100% union. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
On Feb 24, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms You know, it's a sad commentary on the state of the world today that my first thought was those people are standing right where some idiot can push them out onto the tracks. When I'm waiting for the tube I'm always very aware of who is around and behind me. It doesn't have to be deliberate - on a crowded platform it could happen accidentally. I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Mann When I'm waiting for the tube I'm always very aware of who is around and behind me. It doesn't have to be deliberate - on a crowded platform it could happen accidentally. I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. the Moscow underground is like that. In London the Jubilee Line from Waterloo to Stratford (including my station at North Greenwich) is like that too, but it's the most recent addition to the network. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
From: David Mann On Feb 24, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms You know, it's a sad commentary on the state of the world today that my first thought was those people are standing right where some idiot can push them out onto the tracks. When I'm waiting for the tube I'm always very aware of who is around and behind me. It doesn't have to be deliberate - on a crowded platform it could happen accidentally. I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. It would probably be *very* expensive to retro-fit them to existing systems. You not only have to install the door mechanism, but find some way to make the trains stop in exactly the right spot every time so they line up with the doors. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms [...] I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. It would probably be *very* expensive to retro-fit them to existing systems. You not only have to install the door mechanism, but find some way to make the trains stop in exactly the right spot every time so they line up with the doors. I don't think it would be particularly difficult. The trains have to stop in more or less the same place anyway, and regulars get to know where the doors are. When they built the Jubilee Line extension here a few years ago they put platform doors on at the new stations, but the old stations still don't have them, so there is a mixture on the one line. For a few weeks after the new ones opened there was the occasional delay while they lined the trains up, but that was just teething trouble, presumably until they got the tolerances right and all the drivers fully trained. It's far more convenient than having unpredictable delays and line closures because some selfish sod has thrown themself in front of a train. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
I've seen that concept at several airports that use rail to shuttle you from one terminal to another. -Original Message- From: David Mann dmann...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming On Feb 24, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms You know, it's a sad commentary on the state of the world today that my first thought was those people are standing right where some idiot can push them out onto the tracks. When I'm waiting for the tube I'm always very aware of who is around and behind me. It doesn't have to be deliberate - on a crowded platform it could happen accidentally. I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Not to difficult if all the cars run on the line, old and new, have the same length and doors in the same place on the car. It's a matter of physical dimensions on the capital equipment you already own. On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms [...] I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. It would probably be *very* expensive to retro-fit them to existing systems. You not only have to install the door mechanism, but find some way to make the trains stop in exactly the right spot every time so they line up with the doors. I don't think it would be particularly difficult. The trains have to stop in more or less the same place anyway, and regulars get to know where the doors are. When they built the Jubilee Line extension here a few years ago they put platform doors on at the new stations, but the old stations still don't have them, so there is a mixture on the one line. For a few weeks after the new ones opened there was the occasional delay while they lined the trains up, but that was just teething trouble, presumably until they got the tolerances right and all the drivers fully trained. It's far more convenient than having unpredictable delays and line closures because some selfish sod has thrown themself in front of a train. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
IMHO having computer controlled car sets would make this easy to implement. Unfortunately, at least here in Seattle, I don't believe unionized drivers would give up the controls, knowing management would want to pay them less for working in a less dangerous environment. So goes the world. On Feb 24, 2013, at 20:05 , Bob Sullivan wrote: Not to difficult if all the cars run on the line, old and new, have the same length and doors in the same place on the car. It's a matter of physical dimensions on the capital equipment you already own. On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms [...] I saw on TV recently a shot of a subway station somewhere where they had fully enclosed the platform with doors that match up with where the train stops (imagine like a horizontal elevator). May have been the series about great cities hosted by Gryff Rhys Jones. Something tells me it was Tokyo but I'm not sure. It made me wonder why other cities haven't done this. Cheers, Dave The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. It would probably be *very* expensive to retro-fit them to existing systems. You not only have to install the door mechanism, but find some way to make the trains stop in exactly the right spot every time so they line up with the doors. I don't think it would be particularly difficult. The trains have to stop in more or less the same place anyway, and regulars get to know where the doors are. When they built the Jubilee Line extension here a few years ago they put platform doors on at the new stations, but the old stations still don't have them, so there is a mixture on the one line. For a few weeks after the new ones opened there was the occasional delay while they lined the trains up, but that was just teething trouble, presumably until they got the tolerances right and all the drivers fully trained. It's far more convenient than having unpredictable delays and line closures because some selfish sod has thrown themself in front of a train. B Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn’t need to lug a camera.” –Lewis Hine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:40 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The subways in Hong Kong and Beijing both had those kind of barriers. I can't remember if Nanjing had them or not, but I think they did. That's it - Hong Kong was the episode where I saw them. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Given the New Yorkers proclivity for pushing folks onto the rails as the train arrives, I would have an entirely different feeling of anticipation!! Nice shot though Knarf… The guy/gal with the long hair is a messenger, I bet! On Feb 22, 2013, at 18:13 , Larry Colen wrote: Subway train, that is: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-see-train-comin.html?m=1 Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome. Nice feeling of anticipation. But due to the location, it should be titled: I see the Train Coming, Eh. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
You know, it's a sad commentary on the state of the world today that my first thought was those people are standing right where some idiot can push them out onto the tracks. From: Joseph McAllister Given the New Yorkers proclivity for pushing folks onto the rails as the train arrives, I would have an entirely different feeling of anticipation!! Nice shot though Knarf? The guy/gal with the long hair is a messenger, I bet! On Feb 22, 2013, at 18:13 , Larry Colen wrote: Subway train, that is: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-see-train-comin.html?m=1 Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome. Nice feeling of anticipation. But due to the location, it should be titled: I see the Train Coming, Eh. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Scary - but then I live in New York. I stand in the stairwell until the train stops these days ann On 2/22/2013 21:05, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: Subway train, that is: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-see-train-comin.html?m=1 Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome. Cheers, frank If the world were clear, art would not exist. -- Albert Camus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms You know, it's a sad commentary on the state of the world today that my first thought was those people are standing right where some idiot can push them out onto the tracks. When I'm waiting for the tube I'm always very aware of who is around and behind me. It doesn't have to be deliberate - on a crowded platform it could happen accidentally. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Subway train, that is: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-see-train-comin.html?m=1 Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome. Cheers, frank If the world were clear, art would not exist. -- Albert Camus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - I See The Train A'Coming
Subway train, that is: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-see-train-comin.html?m=1 Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome. Nice feeling of anticipation. But due to the location, it should be titled: I see the Train Coming, Eh. Cheers, frank If the world were clear, art would not exist. -- Albert Camus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
