Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
No i did not. Never thought. Thanks. I tried again on Monday and Tuesday. The yellow, pink and orange flowers are fine. For the red i tried metering off the grass, that was better, also -0.3 and -0.7 ev, that was sos so. I tried some off camera wireless fill from the 360, so so, but 1-2 that should PS well. Dave On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Ken Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you check the red channel on the camera histogram? I've noticed similar concerns while shooting red wing blackbirds tend to bias away from the highlight side to bring the reds under control. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. I get this alot with red tulips and sometimes red flowers on a christmas catus. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:46 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Did you check the red channel on the camera histogram? I've noticed similar concerns while shooting red wing blackbirds tend to bias away from the highlight side to bring the reds under control. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. I get this alot with red tulips and sometimes red flowers on a christmas catus. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:46 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
I'll try that. The flowers will be out for a while, so i have time. Thanks Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Red is less reflective than orange or yellow, so you're probably underexposing. Deep red is considerably below gray card value in refetivity. Meter the light off green grass or another near neutral surface, then expose at that reading. Paul. -- Original message -- From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Its funny. The preview thumbnail looks like the flower should be. It does look like i underexposed on these, so there in may be part of my problem. I was underexposed a bit on the yellow ones, and they look fine. I have a show today, but the first part of next week looks good, weather wize, so i'll play a bit Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They look pretty good on my laptop. These results could certainly be improved considerably in post. Paul -- Original message -- From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0 125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. I get this alot with red tulips and sometimes red flowers on a christmas catus. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:46 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
So its not just me.:-) Ok, good to know it does happen, so now i can watch for it, experiment and see what happens. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:45 PM, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've always attributed it to a Bayer thing. I got the same thing when I photographed a bunch of deep red roses with light painting and they looked awful. Like oversaturated and muddled, like its missing some resolution or something. I'll bet really blue things have the same issue. On 7/5/08, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Thanks Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Derby Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, when a subject is mostly red or blue, resolution goes down by up to a quarter (unless you are using a Foveon sensor). Up to a half if the subject is mostly green D Gonz wrote: I've always attributed it to a Bayer thing. I got the same thing when I photographed a bunch of deep red roses with light painting and they looked awful. Like oversaturated and muddled, like its missing some resolution or something. I'll bet really blue things have the same issue. On 7/5/08, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. This may be completely off the mark, but just as a troubleshooting step ... try shifting the focus to halfway between normal focus and the infrared-focus mark on the lens, and see whether that makes any difference. If it does, the flowers are the problem. Are you shooting wide open, or stopped down? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Funny enough, I have nticed the same thing., especielly with pink subjects (shocking pink) Perhaps filters maight help? Regards Jens Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David J Brooks Sent: 05 July 2008 18:38 To: Pentax Discuss Subject: Photographing red flower and plants, problems. Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. I get this alot with red tulips and sometimes red flowers on a christmas catus. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:46 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. Hmm. That does have that oddly oversaturated look that I associate (correctly or incorrectly I'm not sure) with anomalous reflectance. But just to cross something really easy off the list first, before assuming it's one of the really tough phenomena to deal with ... have you tried setting the white balance manually? (I don't think white balance is the problem, but when troubleshooting there are just some things you have to check, y'know?) If the problem does turn out to be anomalous reflectance, does anyone happen to know whether substituting artificial light for daylight does any good? -- Glenn, who ought to go find some morning glories to experiment on. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Red is less reflective than orange or yellow, so you're probably underexposing. Deep red is considerably below gray card value in refetivity. Meter the light off green grass or another near neutral surface, then expose at that reading. Paul. -- Original message -- From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
They look pretty good on my laptop. These results could certainly be improved considerably in post. Paul -- Original message -- From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=viewcurrent=red-flower-0 125.jpg Here is an example of what i get from a red flower. The reds look way over saturated, the middle of the flower is a peach colour, but you can barely see that colour at all. I get this alot with red tulips and sometimes red flowers on a christmas catus. Dave On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 3:46 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] noted: In the days of film it was well-known that blue flowers would often photograph with a magenta cast. I don't remember the reason, but perhaps something similar holds these days on digital sensors for red - at the opposite end of the spectrum. Google anomalous reflectance -- IIRC, morning glories are the worst culprits; some modern fabric dyes do it too. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the subject line, but the complaint seemed to be more about focus than colour-shift, so I left that out of my reply. Then again, if the camera picks up IR and the flowers fluouresce in IR, that would explain muddled colours _and_ the softness ... I think? -- Glenn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
I've always attributed it to a Bayer thing. I got the same thing when I photographed a bunch of deep red roses with light painting and they looked awful. Like oversaturated and muddled, like its missing some resolution or something. I'll bet really blue things have the same issue. On 7/5/08, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Photographing red flower and plants, problems.
Yep, when a subject is mostly red or blue, resolution goes down by up to a quarter (unless you are using a Foveon sensor). Up to a half if the subject is mostly green D Gonz wrote: I've always attributed it to a Bayer thing. I got the same thing when I photographed a bunch of deep red roses with light painting and they looked awful. Like oversaturated and muddled, like its missing some resolution or something. I'll bet really blue things have the same issue. On 7/5/08, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well its happened again. My Asian lilies are starting to flower, some yellow/whites and some reds are popping out now. Took some photos Thursday, and just had a look at them. I seem to have a problem photographing red flowers. The colours are all muddled, subject is soft and blurry. Most of my red tulip shots come out this way as well. Now my orange tiger lilies look great as do my yellow and pink roses. Am i doing something wrong, or is it red being a difficult colour. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
