Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
DM> I'm not too worried about this as the results I've had have been quite DM> good despite some gamut clipping (particularly blues and yellows) as my DM> source images exceed the limits of sRGB. If I was looking for fine-art There is this webpage which has diagram of the gamut of Frontier and Noritsu printers compared to AdobeRGB and sRGB. I will look for it again, now I don't remember the address. From memory, the sRGB space was deficient in the area of blues. Another interesting link with info on all matters possible of disabling colour correction (and possibility of the frontier not defaulting to sRGB but just pouring in the raw data) is here: http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Frontier/using_printer_profiles.htm Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
On May 17, 2004, at 2:16 AM, William Robb wrote: There is really no such thing as a "profile" in this instance. Really, find out what colour spaces the lab recognizes, and choose the one that is best for you. If they can't tell you, then the default profile to use is sRGB. In the case of my lab, they say to use the sRGB colour space. But that is no use in soft proofing as its only a device-independent colour space so it contains no information about the tonal response and colour gamut of the paper and printing process. That's mostly taken care of within the machine though; supposedly we're able to just throw them anything in sRGB and the machine will handle it. My assumption is that sRGB has a smaller gamut than the paper itself, so that any in-sRGB-gamut colour you send them in your file will be reproduced on the paper. OTOH it would mean that the colour space is the limiting factor, which is not necessarily a good thing. I'm not too worried about this as the results I've had have been quite good despite some gamut clipping (particularly blues and yellows) as my source images exceed the limits of sRGB. If I was looking for fine-art prints I wouldn't be going to a high-volume minilab in the first place. And I don't want to get too carried away by the theory if I don't have any control over the implementation ;) I just had a quick play with one of my notoriously difficult files, soft-proofing to sRGB. The result looks interesting and I might try making appropriate adjustments and having a print made. Another lab here insists on Pro Photo RGB (they have a Lambda machine). I haven't tried this lab yet but that colour space is wide enough to drive a double-decker bus through. I'd be hesitant to send them anything short of a 48-bit file as I like my photos to actually show a bit of tonality. Cheers, - Dave http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
>> I would appreciate that. If there are separate profiles for matte WR> and >> glossy paper I would like to get hold of both. WR> There is really no such thing as a "profile" in this instance. WR> Really, find out what colour spaces the lab recognizes, and choose WR> the one that is best for you. WR> If they can't tell you, then the default profile to use is sRGB. Why not? You think an image proofed into sRGB space will look the same when printed on e.g. the Frontier which accepts sRGB? sRGB is afaik made more for monitors and hdtvs. We need a printer profile to softproof our photographs on the computer. Why then Fuji itself provides profiles for Frontier? This colour management makes my head dizzy ;-) Thanks! Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
DM> I would appreciate that. If there are separate profiles for matte and DM> glossy paper I would like to get hold of both. Today I am getting wedding proofs from them, so I will ask. DM> My friend uses Profile Prism, which first profiles your scanner then DM> uses that to profile your printer. I am wondering if his scanner got a He didn't use the digilab printed profile to first profile his scanner didn't he ;-) DM> screenshot of the 3D LAB plot if you like - it has bits sticking out DM> all over the place. :) DM> I assume that colour photo paper comes in various grades, just like B&W DM> paper, but I'll take whatever I can get ;) The Fuji Frontier (do you want them sent too? I can give you the link) profiles are just for the two paper types, not grades. What I am not just sure about is how to prepare the file of IT8.7 target for printing. I am not sure if they can take TIFF Lab space files, and if I convert it to RGB, the colours will change I think. Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
On May 15, 2004, at 10:37 PM, Frantisek Vlcek wrote:
I can ask my lab which has very competent staff if their D-LAB has an
softproofing ("printer") profile for use on my computer. I can send
you one too, if they have.
I would appreciate that. If there are separate profiles for matte and
glossy paper I would like to get hold of both.
My friend uses Profile Prism, which first profiles your scanner then
uses that to profile your printer. I am wondering if his scanner got a
little confused by the glossy paper surface. I can show you a
screenshot of the 3D LAB plot if you like - it has bits sticking out
all over the place.
I assume that colour photo paper comes in various grades, just like B&W
paper, but I'll take whatever I can get ;)
Cheers,
- Dave
http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
WR> I can't get any of this info from Noritsu. All they were able to tell WR> me is that the machine presumes everything is sRGB. WR> They have their own profiling system for monitor balance, it seems to WR> very closely match the monitor balance I get from my Pantone Spyder WR> thingie. It can much depend on the lab. I just met my lab's operator at an outdoor concert (it was raining :) except to see some photos on the web soon) and he told me to bring pictures in Adobe RGB 1998. So I guess theirs go trough some program first. So far the pictures I sent them came out good. There was a website offering custom profiling of home printers, and they also offered free profiles (from printed IT8.7 targets people snailmailed them) for many US and Canadian digital labs. I don't know if it's still online, but you could have a look. Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
DM> The output profile will be kept internally on the machine and I don't
DM> know if you'll be likely to get your hands on it. I certainly couldn't
DM> - I don't even know if Agfa used an ICC workflow in their machine, or
I too would think they have CMS of their own design. But at least Fuji
released profiles for free to softproof on monitor. Softproofing
before sending off a bunch of 11x14" files to print is very useful ;-)
I can ask my lab which has very competent staff if their D-LAB has an
softproofing ("printer") profile for use on my computer. I can send
you one too, if they have.
Having also downloaded the IT8.7 target in Lab colour space, I will
try to have it printed without any corrections and analyse it using
the www.coloraid.de freeware CMS software. I should be able to test
the resulting softproofing profile on several monitors including some
hw calibrated ones.
DM> I would be curious to know the true gamut of photographic paper and how
DM> it compares to that of sRGB. sRGB has quite a narrow gamut and my
DM> opinion is that it is far too limiting to use as a working space for
DM> high quality prints.
>From my limited experience, I would agree. However, am not sure how
e.g.the Frontier works. If it assumes everything it gets is sRGB.
Getting the info is harder. Even the Fuji representatives know little.
If you want, I got a very nice test file from Fuji with many range of
skintones, gray levels and colours, which they offer together with a
print for testing your monitor/computer calibration. I could send it
to you.
Best regards,
Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
>> Or we could compare the >> generic Frontier ICC profiles Fuji provides with profiles from WR> Noritsu >> and others, if any are for download. WR> sRGB is the standard profile used by the industry. sRGB is only a working profile, as I understand it. You are right that most digilabs assume the pictures were shot in sRGB. But all of them can (and most have) their output profile depending on machine and paper. This I can use to softproof the image on my monitor. Or am I wrong? Fujifilm itself offers four generic output profiles for 330,340,350 Frontiers and Digital or Supreme papers. Of course much depends on calibration and chemistry, but that should be ok in a high quality lab. We could even create a custom profile for the digilab we use most often, if they are consistent, with the free CMS tools. Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
- Original Message - From: "Frantisek Vlcek" Subject: Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) Anybody > knows which device has the widest gamut (perhaps on which paper as > well) ? They are all 8 bit per colour channel printers. It doesn't matter which paper is being used. I am pretty sure the Noritsus are 320 dpi. William Robb
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
My lab uses Agfa D-lab 2, I think. It does have a worse scanning unit than Frontier, but that doesn't matter as I bring digital files in, not negatives. And time to time I use another lab with Frontier 350. Maybe the frontier is better, but the lab with Agfa is just more professional. They have better consistency in chemistry, and can do anything. Consistent chemistry and processing is the key to good quality prints even on digital minilab. For printing from negatives, I dislike digital minilabs (fortunately they have great operators for an "analogue" machine too). The Agfa D prints at 400 dpi, Frontier is 300 dpi, and newer Noritsu models are 400 dpi as well. I have yet to test the difference. Anybody knows which device has the widest gamut (perhaps on which paper as well) ? Best regards, Frantisek Vlcek
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
Frontier 375 or Epson 725. Bill - Original Message - From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > > - Original Message - > From: "Timothy Sherburne" > Subject: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > > > > > > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their > *istD images > > with? > > Noritsu 3101 > > William Robb > > >
RE: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
Me too. Had a job lot from several years back when I had an Epson 740. Kept that printer waaay too long because I never used up the job lots of either ink or paper for it. Had to do a bit of work profiling the paper and saving some settings in the driver for the different types, but no problems now... > -Original Message- > From: Anand DHUPKAR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 13 May 2004 22:51 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > > > --so, you are using canon printer with epson paper ? > there is no compatibility problem !! that's an interesting point...
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
--so, you are using canon printer with epson paper ? there is no compatibility problem !! that's an interesting point... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:44:46 US/Eastern > > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their *istD images > with? I use a Canon S800 with a BJC8200 as a backup. Paper used is Ilfords Classic Gloos/Pearl and Epson Glossy. I recently bought an Olympus P-400 dye-sub.The few test prints i made with the sample ink and paper looked great. I just have to order a full ink cartridge and more paper now. Dave _ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
> > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their *istD images > with? I use an Epson 2000P. I also have an Olympus P-400 (like Dave). Am seriously considering either the HP 7960 or Epson R800 as well to be a general purpose printer for other documents (I have an HP Deskjet 970C for that at the moment) Wendy P.S. to Dave: I buy the ribbon & paper for the Olympus from http://www.cameracanada.com/ P.P.S to list: Camera Canada (above) also have an istD and lens kit for $CDN 1875 wendy beard ottawa, canada http://www.beard-redfern.com
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
> > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their *istD images > with? I use a Canon S800 with a BJC8200 as a backup. Paper used is Ilfords Classic Gloos/Pearl and Epson Glossy. I recently bought an Olympus P-400 dye-sub.The few test prints i made with the sample ink and paper looked great. I just have to order a full ink cartridge and more paper now. Dave
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
- Original Message - From: "Timothy Sherburne" Subject: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their *istD images > with? Noritsu 3101 William Robb
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
the low end Epsons have always been trouble. i have never had clogged jets in my 12xx series of printers. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Cotty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "pentax list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > I used to have an Epson (Stylus Photo EX) but when it croaked, the > frequent head clogging put me off Epsons.
RE: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
I have the i950 and it is VERY good. I am picky, and I AM that picky - but I love this printer. No idea about longevity, but then it all seems to be largely guesswork these days anyway sadly... > -Original Message- > From: Timothy Sherburne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2004 22:11 > To: Pentax Discussion List > Subject: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR) > > > > Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing > their *istD images with? > > Right now I'm using an aging HP 970 Cxi, which is okay for > quick snapshots, but not so good for finer work. I'm > considering the Canon i960 as a replacement. My goal is > prints for presentation at home and office, as gifts, et > cetera, not for retail. I'm picky, but not that picky. > > t > > On 5/12/04 12:05, Cotty wrote: > > > On 12/5/04, TIM S, discombobulated, offered: > > > >> I haven't been there yet, but my planned strategy is to > use multiple, > >> smaller CF cards rather than one really large card. Has > this worked > >> out for anyone? > > > > I use a couple of 512MB cards, shoot jpeg, and load onto a > PowerBook. > > Not been defeated yet. I print onto inkjet. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Cotty > > > > > > ___/\__ > > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > > ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps > > _ > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Inkjet recommendations (WAS: Re: Pentax High End DSLR)
Agfa D-Lab (my local lab) and sometimes my home HP 7350. Once in a while the Sam's Club Fuji Frontier. Bruce Wednesday, May 12, 2004, 2:10:41 PM, you wrote: TS> Which brings up a good question: What are folks printing their *istD images TS> with? TS> Right now I'm using an aging HP 970 Cxi, which is okay for quick snapshots, TS> but not so good for finer work. I'm considering the Canon i960 as a TS> replacement. My goal is prints for presentation at home and office, as TS> gifts, et cetera, not for retail. I'm picky, but not that picky. TS> t TS> On 5/12/04 12:05, Cotty wrote: >> On 12/5/04, TIM S, discombobulated, offered: >> >>> I haven't been there yet, but my planned strategy is to use multiple, >>> smaller CF cards rather than one really large card. Has this worked out for >>> anyone? >> >> I use a couple of 512MB cards, shoot jpeg, and load onto a PowerBook. Not >> been defeated yet. I print onto inkjet. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> Cotty >> >> >> ___/\__ >> || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche >> ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps >> _ >> >> >> >>
