Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
On Jun 6, 2010, at 1:13 PM, David Parsons wrote: > Don't try for accurate colors in a bar setting. Just set a custom WB > off a sheet of white paper with the light. If they have mixed light > sources, you are not going to be able to balance for them all anyway. Exactly. > > If you hitting a limit at 2000K, you are deep into the red end of the > lighting spectrum, and you will probably have problems with the light > looking white without shifting the other colors. The only time that I > get to anywhere near 2000K is when I'm shooting IR, and the colors > will never look right. This is true. That's one reason I tend to convert to black and white. But I'd still like to have the best image to start with before converting. That's one thing that I should have mentioned, if I blew out the red channel, I'd just use the blue and green for the B&W conversion. > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Larry Colen wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2010, at 10:03 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: >> >>> Who cares? With my istDS,I quickly discovered the camera's >>> LCD is of very high contrast such that if you shoot and adjust >>> for a good middle exposure on the LCD, the RAW itself will be even better >>> exposed to make custom JPEGS later from the RAW files adjusted by >>> the test exposure LCD images. >> >> A couple of the bars that I've been photographing bands in have very wonky >> color balance. So far out that lightroom can't correct because it only goes >> to a color temp of 2000K. I'm trying to set the exposure so that I get the >> very most info onto the sensor, without clipping. If I expose for red, then >> blue and green are totally lost, so I need to push red as hard as I can, so >> that I don't lose blue and green. >> >>> >>> -- >>> J.C. O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) >>> Join the CD PLAYER & DISC Discussions : >>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdplayers/ >>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdsound/ >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of >>> David Parsons >>> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:04 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: Sensor native color balance setting? >>> >>> >>> I don't see how color balance would make the JPEG and RAW match. The >>> presets in the camera are what modify the JPEG file; sharpness, saturation, >>> etc. If you set all the in-camera controls to neutral, they will be close >>> enough most of the time. >> >> I need to know how each channel is being exposed. If I use the custom color >> balance, the histograms come out a lot more balanced, even if the raw data >> isn't. >> >>> >>> Where you will see a difference is at the far right side of the histogram >>> where highlights clip. Because the JPEG only has 256 levels, and RAW has >>> 4096, the JPEG will show clipping far sooner than RAW will. >> >> because there are 16 values between where the jpeg clips and where the raw >> clips? >> Assuming that since the raw space is 16 times the size of the jpeg space, >> that each jpeg value represents 16 raw values. >> >>> >>> If you really wanted an accurate histogram (there's not much point of >>> matching JPEG to RAW histograms when they have different amounts of data), >>> you'd need to generate the histogram off the RAW data instead of using the >>> JPEG preview. >> >> That is a feature that I've been wanting ever since I started shooting with >> a DSLR. I use the histogram as my exposure meter, and I want it to reflect >> what I'm actually exposing. Pentax seems to assume that people only ever >> use their cameras in automatic exposure mode, shooting directly to jpegs. >> >> >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: >>>> The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the >>>> jpeg, not of the raw sensor. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color >>>> balance, then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. >>>> >>>> Anybody know what that setting would be? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
Thanks a bunch. It seems as if the short answer is to try the K5000 setting and that should get it pretty close. If I were better at measurbating, I could probably optimize a little closer. On Jun 6, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Fernando wrote: > Hi Larry, > > This discussion might be of some use -it's based on the K10D but at > least describes the method to get -what I understand- is an answer to > your question: > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=22957362&page=1 > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: >> The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, >> not of the raw sensor. >> >> It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, >> then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. >> >> Anybody know what that setting would be? >> >> -- >> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> > > > > -- > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferand/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
Hi Larry, This discussion might be of some use -it's based on the K10D but at least describes the method to get -what I understand- is an answer to your question: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=22957362&page=1 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not > of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, > then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferand/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
Don't try for accurate colors in a bar setting. Just set a custom WB off a sheet of white paper with the light. If they have mixed light sources, you are not going to be able to balance for them all anyway. If you hitting a limit at 2000K, you are deep into the red end of the lighting spectrum, and you will probably have problems with the light looking white without shifting the other colors. The only time that I get to anywhere near 2000K is when I'm shooting IR, and the colors will never look right. On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2010, at 10:03 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: > >> Who cares? With my istDS,I quickly discovered the camera's >> LCD is of very high contrast such that if you shoot and adjust >> for a good middle exposure on the LCD, the RAW itself will be even better >> exposed to make custom JPEGS later from the RAW files adjusted by >> the test exposure LCD images. > > A couple of the bars that I've been photographing bands in have very wonky > color balance. So far out that lightroom can't correct because it only goes > to a color temp of 2000K. I'm trying to set the exposure so that I get the > very most info onto the sensor, without clipping. If I expose for red, then > blue and green are totally lost, so I need to push red as hard as I can, so > that I don't lose blue and green. > >> >> -- >> J.C. O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) >> Join the CD PLAYER & DISC Discussions : >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdplayers/ >> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdsound/ >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of >> David Parsons >> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:04 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Sensor native color balance setting? >> >> >> I don't see how color balance would make the JPEG and RAW match. The >> presets in the camera are what modify the JPEG file; sharpness, saturation, >> etc. If you set all the in-camera controls to neutral, they will be close >> enough most of the time. > > I need to know how each channel is being exposed. If I use the custom color > balance, the histograms come out a lot more balanced, even if the raw data > isn't. > >> >> Where you will see a difference is at the far right side of the histogram >> where highlights clip. Because the JPEG only has 256 levels, and RAW has >> 4096, the JPEG will show clipping far sooner than RAW will. > > because there are 16 values between where the jpeg clips and where the raw > clips? > Assuming that since the raw space is 16 times the size of the jpeg space, > that each jpeg value represents 16 raw values. > >> >> If you really wanted an accurate histogram (there's not much point of >> matching JPEG to RAW histograms when they have different amounts of data), >> you'd need to generate the histogram off the RAW data instead of using the >> JPEG preview. > > That is a feature that I've been wanting ever since I started shooting with a > DSLR. I use the histogram as my exposure meter, and I want it to reflect what > I'm actually exposing. Pentax seems to assume that people only ever use > their cameras in automatic exposure mode, shooting directly to jpegs. > > >> >> On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: >>> The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the >>> jpeg, not of the raw sensor. >>> >>> It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color >>> balance, then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. >>> >>> Anybody know what that setting would be? >>> >>> -- >>> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Aloha Photographer Photoblog >> http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
On Jun 6, 2010, at 10:03 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: > Who cares? With my istDS,I quickly discovered the camera's > LCD is of very high contrast such that if you shoot and adjust > for a good middle exposure on the LCD, the RAW itself will be even better > exposed to make custom JPEGS later from the RAW files adjusted by > the test exposure LCD images. A couple of the bars that I've been photographing bands in have very wonky color balance. So far out that lightroom can't correct because it only goes to a color temp of 2000K. I'm trying to set the exposure so that I get the very most info onto the sensor, without clipping. If I expose for red, then blue and green are totally lost, so I need to push red as hard as I can, so that I don't lose blue and green. > > -- > J.C. O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) > Join the CD PLAYER & DISC Discussions : > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdplayers/ > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdsound/ > > > -Original Message- > From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of > David Parsons > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:04 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Sensor native color balance setting? > > > I don't see how color balance would make the JPEG and RAW match. The > presets in the camera are what modify the JPEG file; sharpness, saturation, > etc. If you set all the in-camera controls to neutral, they will be close > enough most of the time. I need to know how each channel is being exposed. If I use the custom color balance, the histograms come out a lot more balanced, even if the raw data isn't. > > Where you will see a difference is at the far right side of the histogram > where highlights clip. Because the JPEG only has 256 levels, and RAW has > 4096, the JPEG will show clipping far sooner than RAW will. because there are 16 values between where the jpeg clips and where the raw clips? Assuming that since the raw space is 16 times the size of the jpeg space, that each jpeg value represents 16 raw values. > > If you really wanted an accurate histogram (there's not much point of > matching JPEG to RAW histograms when they have different amounts of data), > you'd need to generate the histogram off the RAW data instead of using the > JPEG preview. That is a feature that I've been wanting ever since I started shooting with a DSLR. I use the histogram as my exposure meter, and I want it to reflect what I'm actually exposing. Pentax seems to assume that people only ever use their cameras in automatic exposure mode, shooting directly to jpegs. > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: >> The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the >> jpeg, not of the raw sensor. >> >> It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color >> balance, then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. >> >> Anybody know what that setting would be? >> >> -- >> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> > > > > -- > Aloha Photographer Photoblog > http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Sensor native color balance setting?
Who cares? With my istDS,I quickly discovered the camera's LCD is of very high contrast such that if you shoot and adjust for a good middle exposure on the LCD, the RAW itself will be even better exposed to make custom JPEGS later from the RAW files adjusted by the test exposure LCD images. -- J.C. O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Join the CD PLAYER & DISC Discussions : http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdplayers/ http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdsound/ -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Parsons Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:04 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Sensor native color balance setting? I don't see how color balance would make the JPEG and RAW match. The presets in the camera are what modify the JPEG file; sharpness, saturation, etc. If you set all the in-camera controls to neutral, they will be close enough most of the time. Where you will see a difference is at the far right side of the histogram where highlights clip. Because the JPEG only has 256 levels, and RAW has 4096, the JPEG will show clipping far sooner than RAW will. If you really wanted an accurate histogram (there's not much point of matching JPEG to RAW histograms when they have different amounts of data), you'd need to generate the histogram off the RAW data instead of using the JPEG preview. On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the > jpeg, not of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color > balance, then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
On 6/6/2010 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not
of the raw sensor.
It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance,
then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match.
Anybody know what that setting would be?
--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
I think if you dial back all the custom image settings to their minimum
the histogram will most closely, (but still not perfectly), reflect the
raw data. The image on the playback display will be a bit dull at that
point since those settings are used to produce the embedded jpeg.
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interface subtly weird.\par
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the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
I don't see how color balance would make the JPEG and RAW match. The presets in the camera are what modify the JPEG file; sharpness, saturation, etc. If you set all the in-camera controls to neutral, they will be close enough most of the time. Where you will see a difference is at the far right side of the histogram where highlights clip. Because the JPEG only has 256 levels, and RAW has 4096, the JPEG will show clipping far sooner than RAW will. If you really wanted an accurate histogram (there's not much point of matching JPEG to RAW histograms when they have different amounts of data), you'd need to generate the histogram off the RAW data instead of using the JPEG preview. On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not > of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, > then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
Larry, I've always thought that the native colour balance was for daylight. Everything else is measured in terms of what colour of light is missing. It's also the most used colour balance (with flash coming a close second and it's not that different). Leon. On 6 June 2010 16:50, Larry Colen wrote: > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not > of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, > then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
2010/6/6 Larry Colen : > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not > of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, > then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? mu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sensor native color balance setting?
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > The problem with the histogram is that it shows the exposure of the jpeg, not > of the raw sensor. > > It seems to me that if you set the camera to the sensor's raw color balance, > then the jpeg and the raw file histograms would match. > > Anybody know what that setting would be? 42 D > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
