Re: DNG V RAW converter?
On 4/27/2018 16:32, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Now, as far as I understand, "traditional" TIFF viewers would not be able to show any RAW formats: you'd need some sort of additional "decoder"/converter from the RAW format to the bitmap-based format. I've never carefully looked at the TIFF files used by *ist-D and *ist-DS, but I suspect that was a "traditional" TIFF format, that can be easily seen in any TIFF viewer. So, I don't think that was a true "RAW" file. If you chose that format as output, - you were not storing RAW image, similarly to how it is not stored when you store JPEG-only. *ist-D PEF files had to be opened with Pentax's included image software and exported as TIFF files for Photoshop 7. The TIFF files could be opened directly. With the *ist-D you could also choose how many pixels it recorded in the TIFF or JPEG files - L 3008x2008; M 2400x1600; S 1536x1024. This affected the size of the TIFF file. File sizes were a big deal because I started out with a single 512MB Compact Flash card. It was 3 months before I could afford a second card and 6 months before I got my first 1GB card. An *ist-D PEF file was around 13MB; high quality 2400x1600 JPEGS were about 1.5MB; 1536x1024 TIFF files were around 4.5MB; 2400x1600 TIFFs were about 11MB and full size 3008x2008 TIFFs were 17MB or more. Looking back, I find I shot a lot more JPEGS than I remembered and more smaller TIFF files. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
I don't think that TIFF is actually a RAW format Per se but as it supports a 16 bit per channel version, so there is more data to manipulate than the 8 bits available per channel in Jpeg. Most image processing software could deal with a number of different TIFF variants which was why it was at one time the preferred professional format. Most if not all RAW formats put their data in a TIFF "wrapper", probably because there was no organization that owned the rights to TIFF, since it had been in use with FAX machines since just about the end of the Jurassic. After all. why create a new format when you have one available that will do what you need, and you already have the expertise available to work with it, that no one can sue you over. On 4/27/2018 2:26 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: John Francis wrote: The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS. I was under the impression that DNG and most other raw formats were variations/extensions of the TIFF format. Indeed, some image recovery software will find raw files if you specify TIFF as the format to search for. -- America wasn't founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please. - P.J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 04:32:23PM -0400, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > TIFF is a rather broad format. Strictly speaking it is a container format > that can have images incorporated in a variety of formats, including JPEG. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF > This format is described in the TIFF 6.0 format standard. > AFAIK, originally, it (the "classic" TIFF image) did not allow a RAW image > incorporated (but I am not 100% confident here). The TIFF 6.0 specification allowed for a variety of image decoders (such as, for example, those used in CCITT FAX), including proprietary decoders. The overall architecture of a DNG file (and, IIRC, a PEF file) conforms to the TIFF 6.0 specifications (using TIFF tags to describe the organisation of the file, for example), but the actual image data requires a decoder which is not part of the TIFF standard. The DNG standard adds a few extra decoders to the TIFF standard, including one for the Bayer RGGB pattern. While the *ist-D did offer TIFF, it wasn't really a raw format - although the *ist-D had a sensor that could record 12 bits of data, the TIFF output was limited to 8 bit. The PEF output retained all 12 bits (although the sensor data was stored in a 16-bit format, with no compression, leading to fairly large files - looking at a few of my images when I was testing my *isdt-D show .PEF files of around 14MB, and .TIF files of around 18MB). I've used DNG as my RAW format since I moved from the *ist-D to a K10D. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
Someone else will have to comment
on this!
J
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 27, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>
>
>
> I guess this requires a bit more careful discussion of what TIFF is.
>
> TIFF is a rather broad format. Strictly speaking it is a container format
> that can have images incorporated in a variety of formats, including JPEG.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF
> This format is described in the TIFF 6.0 format standard.
> AFAIK, originally, it (the "classic" TIFF image) did not allow a RAW image
> incorporated (but I am not 100% confident here).
>
>
> There is, however a later format standard, so-called, ISO 12234-2, known as
> TIFF/EP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF/EP (But it is not the same as the
> "TIFF" standard! - defined as TIFF 6.0 standard.)
> One of the purposes/uses of this format is the RAW image format (for storing
> sensor information from different devices: scanners, digital cameras, etc.)
>
> To make that more clear, we have to define what RAW format is: it contains
> information (recorded signal levels) from each individual sensor site
> (e.g. for R, G, G, and B in various orders - for Bayer-filter based sensors).
> That is before it gets mixed into color-pixel information. That allows more
> efficient color separation/tweaking/mixing then at the level of pixel-based
> images.
>
> The non-RAW formats (Jpeg, "classic" TIFF, etc.) contain information about
> each pixel's color. This are based on the bitmap, - in some cases possibly
> compressed in a lossy or lossless way.
>
>
> Nikon's NEF _is_ _based_ on TIFF/EP format, but, again, it is not the TIFF
> format: http://lclevy.free.fr/nef/
> DNG was also based on TIFF/EP format.
>
> Now, as far as I understand, "traditional" TIFF viewers would not be able to
> show any RAW formats: you'd need some sort of additional "decoder"/converter
> from the RAW format to the bitmap-based format.
>
>
> I've never carefully looked at the TIFF files used by *ist-D and *ist-DS, but
> I suspect that was a "traditional" TIFF format, that can be easily seen in
> any TIFF viewer. So, I don't think that was a true "RAW" file.
> If you chose that format as output, - you were not storing RAW image,
> similarly to how it is not stored when you store JPEG-only.
>
>
> I suspect it is because of the structure similarity ("Tags-based format:
> Tagged Image File Format - TIFF") that some software might mix up RAW for
> TIFF. And I saw that some piece of software had a bug like that:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+bug/77166
>
> Also, because both TIFF (6.0) and TIFF/EP have "TIFF" in the name, and
> because the latter is based on a subset of the "original" TIFF, - people
> often incorrectly combine both under the same "TIFF" umbrella. Hence,
> the confusion.
>
>
> I hope this somewhat clarifies this rather messy multitude of image formats
> and nomenclatures.
>
> Igor
>
>
>
> Mark Roberts Fri, 27 Apr 2018 11:27:32 -0700 wrote:
>
> John Francis wrote:
>
>> The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the
>> various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to
>> mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on
>> the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS.
>
>
> I was under the impression that DNG and most other raw formats were
> variations/extensions of the TIFF format. Indeed, some image recovery
> software will find raw files if you specify TIFF as the format to
> search for.
>
> --
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
>
>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jack,
>>
>> Your question confused me.
>> What "organizer"? Which TIFF images?
>>
>> I don't think I understand all the aspects of your question, but I hope the
>> following clarifying statements would at least partially answer it.
>>
>> 1. TIFF is not a raw format. So, I doubt it'd be produced in the camera.
>> Maybe as an "export" option, but even that is unlikely.
>> 2. DNG _is_ a raw format.
>> 3. I am not aware of RAW+DNG format option in any camera.
>> 4. With modern Pentax DSLRs, you can choose one of the two RAW formats:
>> "PEF" (Pentax proprietary) and DNG (Adobe's).
>> 5. With the last several generations of Pentax DSLRs, you can choose
>> RAW or RAW+JPEG as the default, or override that manually with a button.
>> If you choose RAW+JPEG, you get two files written.
>>
>> Here is a brief description of these file formats:
>> https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41321715
>>
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Igor
>>
>>
>> Jack Davis Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:10:06 -0700 wrote:
>>
>> Anyone,
>>
>> Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the
>> organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to
>> RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> J
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCR
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
I don't doubt it, but it was a computer geek who advised it. Perhaps a genuine "geek"? J Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2018, at 12:50 PM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > > I have the K-3 set for RAW+JPG with the RAWs set as DNGs and the JPGs sized > for web distribution. With two card slots, the RAWs go to card 1 and the > JPGs to card 2, which is an Eye-Fi Mobi. The Mobi fairly quickly will copy > the JPGs to my iPad for quick review (or to show interested bystanders) and > the DNGs from card 1 are later transferred to a hard drive and the JPGs on > card 2 go to the bit bucket. > > -p > > >> On 4/27/2018 1:58 PM, l...@red4est.com wrote: >> >>> On April 27, 2018 8:29:45 AM PDT, Jack Davis wrote: >>> My images are now coming up as >>> JPEG's and I convert them to TIFF's >>> in "Save as ." >> Saving a jpeg as a tiff won't gain you any information, all of the >> informatin as already been lost in the original conversion from raw to jpeg. >> >> You probably want to set your camera to store either raw, or raw+jpeg. I >> prefer to store my raw files in dng format rather than pef on the assumption >> that future processing software will support dng and may not support pef. >> At one point, I was doing my initial backup in pef, and converting to dng >> during my import to lightroom so that I'd have copies of both file formats, >> but that was excessive, even for me. >> >> If you are ambitious, you could set your camera to raw+jpeg and compare the >> results of processing the same photo in both formats. Under ideal >> conditions, where you do minimum adjustments, the differences would likely >> be minimal, it tends to be in cases of poor lighting, when you need to pull >> details out of the shadows or make significant changes to color balance that >> the information loss is most notable. With hard drives running at less than >> $50/Terabyte saving photos in poor light is far more important to me than >> saving hard drive space. >> >>> J >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Bill >>> wrote: > On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: > Anyone, > Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images >> >from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from >>> RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? > Thanks > J DNG is RAW. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. > > -- > Paul Sorenson > Studio1941 > > Sooner or later "different" scares people. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
I guess this requires a bit more careful discussion of what TIFF is.
TIFF is a rather broad format. Strictly speaking it is a container format
that can have images incorporated in a variety of formats, including JPEG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF
This format is described in the TIFF 6.0 format standard.
AFAIK, originally, it (the "classic" TIFF image) did not allow a RAW
image incorporated (but I am not 100% confident here).
There is, however a later format standard, so-called, ISO 12234-2, known
as TIFF/EP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF/EP
(But it is not the same as the "TIFF" standard! - defined as TIFF 6.0
standard.)
One of the purposes/uses of this format is the RAW image format (for
storing sensor information from different devices: scanners, digital
cameras, etc.)
To make that more clear, we have to define what RAW format is: it contains
information (recorded signal levels) from each individual sensor site
(e.g. for R, G, G, and B in various orders - for Bayer-filter based
sensors). That is before it gets mixed into color-pixel information. That
allows more efficient color separation/tweaking/mixing then at the level
of pixel-based images.
The non-RAW formats (Jpeg, "classic" TIFF, etc.) contain
information about each pixel's color. This are based on the bitmap, - in
some cases possibly compressed in a lossy or lossless way.
Nikon's NEF _is_ _based_ on TIFF/EP format, but, again, it is not the
TIFF format: http://lclevy.free.fr/nef/
DNG was also based on TIFF/EP format.
Now, as far as I understand, "traditional" TIFF viewers would not be able
to show any RAW formats: you'd need some sort of additional
"decoder"/converter from the RAW format to the bitmap-based format.
I've never carefully looked at the TIFF files used by *ist-D and *ist-DS,
but I suspect that was a "traditional" TIFF format, that can be easily
seen in any TIFF viewer. So, I don't think that was a true "RAW" file.
If you chose that format as output, - you were not storing RAW image,
similarly to how it is not stored when you store JPEG-only.
I suspect it is because of the structure similarity ("Tags-based format:
Tagged Image File Format - TIFF") that some software might mix up RAW for
TIFF. And I saw that some piece of software had a bug like that:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+bug/77166
Also, because both TIFF (6.0) and TIFF/EP have "TIFF" in the name, and
because the latter is based on a subset of the "original" TIFF, - people
often incorrectly combine both under the same "TIFF" umbrella. Hence,
the confusion.
I hope this somewhat clarifies this rather messy multitude of image
formats and nomenclatures.
Igor
Mark Roberts Fri, 27 Apr 2018 11:27:32 -0700 wrote:
John Francis wrote:
The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the
various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to
mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on
the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS.
I was under the impression that DNG and most other raw formats were
variations/extensions of the TIFF format. Indeed, some image recovery
software will find raw files if you specify TIFF as the format to
search for.
--
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
Jack,
Your question confused me.
What "organizer"? Which TIFF images?
I don't think I understand all the aspects of your question, but I hope the
following clarifying statements would at least partially answer it.
1. TIFF is not a raw format. So, I doubt it'd be produced in the camera.
Maybe as an "export" option, but even that is unlikely.
2. DNG _is_ a raw format.
3. I am not aware of RAW+DNG format option in any camera.
4. With modern Pentax DSLRs, you can choose one of the two RAW formats:
"PEF" (Pentax proprietary) and DNG (Adobe's).
5. With the last several generations of Pentax DSLRs, you can choose
RAW or RAW+JPEG as the default, or override that manually with a button.
If you choose RAW+JPEG, you get two files written.
Here is a brief description of these file formats:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41321715
HTH,
Igor
Jack Davis Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:10:06 -0700 wrote:
Anyone,
Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the
organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG.
I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter?
Thanks
J
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow
the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
> On 28 April 2018 at 02:57 Jack Davis wrote: > > > Right, John. Also on the more recent > K5 & K3. Some confusion here, I think. The K-5 offers PEF & DNG as the raw options; no TIFF. I can't imagine that the K-3 is different. Cheers Brian > J > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2018, at 9:25 AM, John Francis wrote: > > > > > > The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the > > various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to > > mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on > > the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS. > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
I have the K-3 set for RAW+JPG with the RAWs set as DNGs and the JPGs sized for web distribution. With two card slots, the RAWs go to card 1 and the JPGs to card 2, which is an Eye-Fi Mobi. The Mobi fairly quickly will copy the JPGs to my iPad for quick review (or to show interested bystanders) and the DNGs from card 1 are later transferred to a hard drive and the JPGs on card 2 go to the bit bucket. -p On 4/27/2018 1:58 PM, l...@red4est.com wrote: On April 27, 2018 8:29:45 AM PDT, Jack Davis wrote: My images are now coming up as JPEG's and I convert them to TIFF's in "Save as ." Saving a jpeg as a tiff won't gain you any information, all of the informatin as already been lost in the original conversion from raw to jpeg. You probably want to set your camera to store either raw, or raw+jpeg. I prefer to store my raw files in dng format rather than pef on the assumption that future processing software will support dng and may not support pef. At one point, I was doing my initial backup in pef, and converting to dng during my import to lightroom so that I'd have copies of both file formats, but that was excessive, even for me. If you are ambitious, you could set your camera to raw+jpeg and compare the results of processing the same photo in both formats. Under ideal conditions, where you do minimum adjustments, the differences would likely be minimal, it tends to be in cases of poor lighting, when you need to pull details out of the shadows or make significant changes to color balance that the information loss is most notable. With hard drives running at less than $50/Terabyte saving photos in poor light is far more important to me than saving hard drive space. J Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Bill wrote: On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone, Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images >from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? Thanks J DNG is RAW. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Paul Sorenson Studio1941 Sooner or later "different" scares people. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
On 4/27/2018 11:25, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Jack, Your question confused me. What "organizer"? Which TIFF images? I don't think I understand all the aspects of your question, but I hope the following clarifying statements would at least partially answer it. 1. TIFF is not a raw format. So, I doubt it'd be produced in the camera. Maybe as an "export" option, but even that is unlikely. The *ist-D had TIFF files as an option. IIRC Herb Kepler recommended using the TIFF option when he reviewed the *ist-D in Popular Photography back in 2003 or 2004. At the time Kepler was not sure that RAW formats were going to catch on, and TIFF was the accepted universal format & what better than a camera that could output TIFF directly without requiring any additional software. I think it was because the then current version of Photoshop (Photoshop 7) didn't include a raw converter. You had to use the camera manufacturer's proprietary software to convert your photos to a format Photoshop could handle. TIFF was one of those formats. Later Adobe added ACR to the lineup, but IIRC it was a stand-alone product you had to buy separately from Photoshop 7. Adobe introduced the free DNG Converter in 2004 and DNG was one of the formats that Photoshop 7 could handle (possibly added through a software update). The DNG Converter could handle TIFF and PEF files from the *ist-D. When I went to Iraq in 2004 I had Photoshop 5LE that came with my Nikon Scanner and it could open the TIFF files from the *ist-D. But it was so limited I soon started looking for an upgrade (for which Photoshop 5LE was not eligible). But with combat pay & the tax exclusion, I had soon saved enough that I was able to buy a "used" copy Photoshop 7 from Amazon (who shipped to APO addresses). After I got home, I purchased a retail copy of PhotoshopCS so I wouldn't have to worry if my copy was legit. I got a "free" upgrade to PhotoshopCS 2 because it was announced only a month after I bought CS. 2. DNG _is_ a raw format. 3. I am not aware of RAW+DNG format option in any camera. 4. With modern Pentax DSLRs, you can choose one of the two RAW formats: "PEF" (Pentax proprietary) and DNG (Adobe's). 5. With the last several generations of Pentax DSLRs, you can choose RAW or RAW+JPEG as the default, or override that manually with a button. If you choose RAW+JPEG, you get two files written. And with the K-3/K-1, you have the option of writing the RAW (PEF or DNG) to one card and the JPEGS to the other. Here is a brief description of these file formats: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41321715 HTH, Igor Jack Davis Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:10:06 -0700 wrote: Anyone, Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? Thanks J -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
Thanks, Irc! J Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2018, at 11:58 AM, l...@red4est.com wrote: > > > >> On April 27, 2018 8:29:45 AM PDT, Jack Davis wrote: >> My images are now coming up as >> JPEG's and I convert them to TIFF's >> in "Save as ." > > Saving a jpeg as a tiff won't gain you any information, all of the informatin > as already been lost in the original conversion from raw to jpeg. > > You probably want to set your camera to store either raw, or raw+jpeg. I > prefer to store my raw files in dng format rather than pef on the assumption > that future processing software will support dng and may not support pef. > At one point, I was doing my initial backup in pef, and converting to dng > during my import to lightroom so that I'd have copies of both file formats, > but that was excessive, even for me. > > If you are ambitious, you could set your camera to raw+jpeg and compare the > results of processing the same photo in both formats. Under ideal > conditions, where you do minimum adjustments, the differences would likely be > minimal, it tends to be in cases of poor lighting, when you need to pull > details out of the shadows or make significant changes to color balance that > the information loss is most notable. With hard drives running at less than > $50/Terabyte saving photos in poor light is far more important to me than > saving hard drive space. > >> J >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Bill >>> wrote: >>> On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone, Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images >> from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from >> RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? Thanks J >>> DNG is RAW. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >> and follow the directions. > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
On April 27, 2018 8:29:45 AM PDT, Jack Davis wrote: >My images are now coming up as >JPEG's and I convert them to TIFF's >in "Save as ." > Saving a jpeg as a tiff won't gain you any information, all of the informatin as already been lost in the original conversion from raw to jpeg. You probably want to set your camera to store either raw, or raw+jpeg. I prefer to store my raw files in dng format rather than pef on the assumption that future processing software will support dng and may not support pef. At one point, I was doing my initial backup in pef, and converting to dng during my import to lightroom so that I'd have copies of both file formats, but that was excessive, even for me. If you are ambitious, you could set your camera to raw+jpeg and compare the results of processing the same photo in both formats. Under ideal conditions, where you do minimum adjustments, the differences would likely be minimal, it tends to be in cases of poor lighting, when you need to pull details out of the shadows or make significant changes to color balance that the information loss is most notable. With hard drives running at less than $50/Terabyte saving photos in poor light is far more important to me than saving hard drive space. >J >Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Bill >wrote: >> >>> On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: >>> Anyone, >>> Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images >from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from >RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? >>> Thanks >>> J >> DNG is RAW. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and follow the directions. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
John Francis wrote: >The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the >various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to >mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on >the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS. I was under the impression that DNG and most other raw formats were variations/extensions of the TIFF format. Indeed, some image recovery software will find raw files if you specify TIFF as the format to search for. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
Right, John. Also on the more recent K5 & K3. J Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2018, at 9:25 AM, John Francis wrote: > > > The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the > various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to > mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on > the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
The only thing I would add to Igor's excellent summary of the various file formats, camera option settings, etc., is to mention that TIFF was, in fact, available as a RAW format on the Pentax *ist-D and *ist-DS. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
Thanks: Igor, Paul and Bill! I have some further questions, but will leave those for later. J Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:25 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > > Jack, > > Your question confused me. > What "organizer"? Which TIFF images? > > I don't think I understand all the aspects of your question, but I hope the > following clarifying statements would at least partially answer it. > > 1. TIFF is not a raw format. So, I doubt it'd be produced in the camera. > Maybe as an "export" option, but even that is unlikely. > 2. DNG _is_ a raw format. > 3. I am not aware of RAW+DNG format option in any camera. > 4. With modern Pentax DSLRs, you can choose one of the two RAW formats: > "PEF" (Pentax proprietary) and DNG (Adobe's). > 5. With the last several generations of Pentax DSLRs, you can choose > RAW or RAW+JPEG as the default, or override that manually with a button. > If you choose RAW+JPEG, you get two files written. > > Here is a brief description of these file formats: > https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41321715 > > > HTH, > > Igor > > > Jack Davis Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:10:06 -0700 wrote: > > Anyone, > > Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the > organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG. > I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? > > > > Thanks > > > J > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
My images are now coming up as JPEG's and I convert them to TIFF's in "Save as ." J Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Bill wrote: > >> On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: >> Anyone, >> Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the >> organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to >> RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? >> Thanks >> J > DNG is RAW. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
DNG is just a standard way of packaging RAW files. I don’t use Lightroom, but in PhotoShop they’re handled the same way Pentax RAW files are handled. When I click on a RAW DNG file it opens in Adobe Raw Converter, and I tweak it before opening it in Photoshop and saving it as a Tiff and a jpeg. Paul > On Apr 27, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: > > Anyone, > > Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the > organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG. > I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? > > > Thanks > > > J > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: DNG V RAW converter?
On 4/27/2018 9:09 AM, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone, Am not seeing a RAW converter when downloading recent TIFF images from the organizer. I was advised to change a new camera setting from RAW to RAW+DNG. I did so. Should I now be seeing a DNG TIFF converter? Thanks J DNG is RAW. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
