Re: Terms of Service
Doug, Although I don't have any English/American background but I think you're not overreacting. These folks are hmmm how to put it - hmmm, I wouldn't deal with them. Boris Doug Franklin wrote: > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
Adobe's recently taken a bit of criticism for the Terms of Service for the new on-line editor, Photoshop Express. At first publication the TOS basically gives Adobe the rights to the photos in your galleries. This was quickly brought to Adobe's attention and they are re-writing the terms. John Nack gives details in his blog. <http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/03/a_note_about_ps.html> The comments on his blog post are clear. A lot of people would like to use the new editor and free gallery space, but will not do so until the terms change. GS <http://georgesphotos.net> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > > -- > Thanks, > DougF (KG4LMZ) > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Terms of Service
> > From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2008/03/28 Fri PM 07:49:43 GMT > To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" > Subject: RE: Terms of Service > > > > > It's this bit that raised the hackles: > > "In addition, you warrant that all moral rights in any > > uploaded images and materials have been waived." > > > > It's new and I'm not entirely sure what they mean by it. > > > > your moral rights are your rights of authorship independent of your > economic rights over the work. You really don't want to waive them > because it gives anybody - anybody - the right to do anything at all > with your work. I think that in Europe you cannot waive your moral > rights (although you can choose not to enforce them). I am not a > lawyer. That's the way it read to me. I might ask them about it but probably I'll just start looking for someone else. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
> > with your work. I think that in Europe you cannot waive your moral > rights (although you can choose not to enforce them). I am not a > lawyer. That's correct. It is a result of the droit moral principle of the french law from the 19th century. Although the border between moral and economic copyrights is fluent, a part remains that cannot be waived. This is common opinion, although not without controversy. Marcus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Terms of Service
> > It's this bit that raised the hackles: > "In addition, you warrant that all moral rights in any > uploaded images and materials have been waived." > > It's new and I'm not entirely sure what they mean by it. > your moral rights are your rights of authorship independent of your economic rights over the work. You really don't want to waive them because it gives anybody - anybody - the right to do anything at all with your work. I think that in Europe you cannot waive your moral rights (although you can choose not to enforce them). I am not a lawyer. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
> > From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2008/03/27 Thu PM 11:21:00 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Terms of Service > > OK, I'm gonna do a "bulk reply" here :-) ... > > To all of you who agreed we my "they're pirates" interpretation, thanks > for the confirmations. Also, the fact that not one single reply has > offered any alternative interpretation is pretty telling. > > > Mike Wilson: "The second sentence has been added ..." > > That sounds to my untrained "legal ear" like just the rights they need > to be able to outsource the production of the finished product. The key > part is "for the purposes of delivering the Services." It's this bit that raised the hackles: "In addition, you warrant that all moral rights in any uploaded images and materials have been waived." It's new and I'm not entirely sure what they mean by it. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
P. J. Alling wrote: > I thought that was a sparrow... It was, but if we're going to mix metaphors, I'll supply the Mixmaster. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
Doug Franklin wrote: > David J Brooks wrote: > > >> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > >>> I once wrote a nasty letter and it had the last line: >>> > > My personal favorite was "If I were an executive of your company, I'd be > ashamed a customer was being treated this way.". > > >>> And I wouldn't be surprised if you smell funny as well. >>> >> No, bring me a shrubery >> > > African or European? > > I thought that was a sparrow... -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
David J Brooks wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I once wrote a nasty letter and it had the last line: My personal favorite was "If I were an executive of your company, I'd be ashamed a customer was being treated this way.". >> And I wouldn't be surprised if you smell funny as well. > > No, bring me a shrubery African or European? -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 27/3/08, Doug Franklin, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > >And, all in all, I completely agree with what you said. :-) > > I once wrote a nasty letter and it had the last line: > > > And I wouldn't be surprised if you smell funny as well. No, bring me a shrubery Dave > > > > (well, maybe they do) > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
On 27/3/08, Doug Franklin, discombobulated, unleashed: >And, all in all, I completely agree with what you said. :-) I once wrote a nasty letter and it had the last line: And I wouldn't be surprised if you smell funny as well. (well, maybe they do) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
OK, I'm gonna do a "bulk reply" here :-) ...
To all of you who agreed we my "they're pirates" interpretation, thanks
for the confirmations. Also, the fact that not one single reply has
offered any alternative interpretation is pretty telling.
> Mike Wilson: "The second sentence has been added ..."
That sounds to my untrained "legal ear" like just the rights they need
to be able to outsource the production of the finished product. The key
part is "for the purposes of delivering the Services."
> John Francis: "Good luck - you'll find a similar clause at many
> web-hosting sites."
My experience has been that most web-hosting and most photo hosting
sites explicitly include something like the "for the purposes of
delivering the Services" to limit the rights they're demanding. Lulu,
Cafe Press, and Blurb, as of about a week ago, go out of their way to
say that they don't even want any rights beyond those necessary to
provide the services. I haven't looked at any others recently.
> Dave Brooks: "I was just about to submit some photos for an LCBO
> photo contest ..."
Yep, I've seen that in quite a few photo "competitions". It leads me to
believe that many of them could be trolling operations to avoid having
to pay stock houses.
> Scott Loveless: "My wife used to be a 'consulatant' ..."
I'll be interested to hear what she finds out. My friend the
"consultant" asked up her "reporting chain" to get the answer I
mentioned before ("it's so they can use your stuff in their promotional
materials without having to track you down and pay you", which is
egregious in and of itself). And that clause in the Snapfish Terms of
Use is why I don't use Snapfish.
> Paul Stenquist: "I would request a separate agreement ..."
Screw 'em. There are other fish in the sea, and I'll spend my money
with them. I'll also take a couple of minutes to send a hand written
letter to the top management of CM to tell them why they won't get my
business, why I'll try to talk my friend into not being a consultant any
more, and why I'll try to talk anyone I can out of using their services.
Commercial value or no, it's the principle of the thing. Like you, I
make my living on IP, though it's software rather than photos and print
copy. This is like an Internet backup service that claimed full rights
to my software because I backed up the source to their service once.
> Bob W: "why bother? If they've written this in such a way that you as
> a normal person can't understand it, ..."
Well, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what it actually says. And
due to what it actually says, I won't use their service. However, I'm
curious. I wonder what they think it means, which will be tough to
tease out. I also wonder what they'll officially claim it means, which
ought to be easer to get from them.
I honestly don't think they're trying to bullshit. The text is pretty
clear. I think they're either stupid or brazen or both. Or they're
planning on the bulk of their customers never reading the terms, or
being too stupid, ignorant, or unimaginative to understand the
implications even if they do read them.
My brother and I are going to race this weekend, and one of the
Scrutineers (technical inspectors) is an IP lawyer. For giggles, I've
printed out the terms and I'm going to see if he'll give an
interpretation, if he's at the track this weekend.
And, all in all, I completely agree with what you said. :-)
--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)
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RE: Terms of Service
> I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, why bother? If they've written this in such a way that you as a normal person can't understand it, then they're trying to bullshit you. If they've written a great big long agreement full of legal-sounding jargon and double-negatives they are trying to intimidate people into not reading it, and just signing up on the assumption that they're probably a decent company. A decent company that wanted to offer you a fair service for a fair return would use plain language and tell you that you retained all rights. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
I was just about to submit some photos for an LCBO photo contest last yera, and re read the TOS. I missed the line in there that said once submitted , they have the rights tothe phot, or in such terms. I did not send them, as they were some of my better shots, obviously, Dave On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:13 PM, John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 01:33:14PM +, mike wilson wrote: > > > From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Terms of Service > > > > > > Howdy, folks, > > [ . . . .] > > > No. Find somewhere else. > > Good luck - you'll find a similar clause at many web-hosting sites. > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 01:33:14PM +, mike wilson wrote: > > From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Terms of Service > > > > Howdy, folks, [ . . . .] > No. Find somewhere else. Good luck - you'll find a similar clause at many web-hosting sites. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Terms of Service > They've worded it in such a way that it gives them far more rights than mere > marketing use. I > would request a separate agreement if I was determined to use their service. > I woulld extend > rights for marketing of their service but exclude any other commercial use. > On the other hand > if the material I wanted to print seemed to have little commercial value, I > might just go > ahead and do it, but I'd probably still attach a note in regard to my > retaining all copyrights > on the material. I think you will find that they would just fall back on the original contract, which allows them to use anything submitted to them in any fashion, and does not, from the looks of it, hold them to unenforcable agreements that their clients would like them to adhere to. I'd just find an honest publisher who isn't showing interest in stealing my work via EULA and use them instead. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
They've worded it in such a way that it gives them far more rights than mere marketing use. I would request a separate agreement if I was determined to use their service. I woulld extend rights for marketing of their service but exclude any other commercial use. On the other hand if the material I wanted to print seemed to have little commercial value, I might just go ahead and do it, but I'd probably still attach a note in regard to my retaining all copyrights on the material. Paul -- Original message -- From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for , I > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > > -- > Thanks, > DougF (KG4LMZ) > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
Doug Franklin wrote: > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > Doug, My wife used to be a "consultant". We have had several photo books printed by CM. I forwarded your message to her for an opinion. She didn't remember seeing that in the TOS the last time she ordered from them and was rather surprised by it. So she's going to ask one of her consultant friends to call CM's consultant services for clarification. We both agreed that it leans way too far in CM's favor. Even Snapfish's TOS specifies that if they use your photos, they will only be used to promote Snapfish. If I were you I'd go with Blurb. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
this is legalese "all your base are belong to us", i would look for someone else. > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
> > From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2008/03/27 Thu PM 01:08:58 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Terms of Service > > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? No. Find somewhere else. I used these recently. This is the UK portal but there will be access in the USA. The book was manufactured in Noo Joisey... http://www.mypublisher.uk.com/associations/costcouk/index.php?assoc=costcouk H. The second sentence has been added since I used it. Will have to investigate. "You acknowledge and agree that any submission may be published, copied, customized, removed, transmitted and shown by MyPublisher for the purposes of delivering the Services. In addition, you warrant that all moral rights in any uploaded images and materials have been waived." - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Terms of Service
I think you've got the gist of it. I would never deal with such pirates. Most dishonest people steal behind your back, they seem to be telling you that they'll steal right in front of you. No shame about it either. Doug Franklin wrote: > Howdy, folks, > > We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of > various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put > together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to > Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to > people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self > publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. > > A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing > company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic > scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for > what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through > them to help her out. > > Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms > of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: > > Idea submission statement > > Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or > collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By > submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative > Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any > obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, > with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may > disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its > sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to > compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the > information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. > > Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to > focus on what I have a problem with. > > ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that > ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any > purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or > work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... > > I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they > intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if > you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also > contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The > answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your > stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with > you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. > > Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite > disturbing. Am I overreacting? > > -- Vote for Cthulhu. Why settle for a lesser evil... -- Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Terms of Service
Howdy, folks, We've had several discussions over the years about the terms of use of various web sites and services. Well, I've been planning to put together a very short run of a small photo book from my recent trip to Bulgaria. I only plan a run of maybe 30 because they're for gifts to people over there and family here. So I've been looking at self publishing web sites like Lulu and Blurb and such. A friend of mine recently got involved with a multi-level marketing company called Creative Memories. Their focus is more on "electronic scrapbooking", but they have a service that would be appropriate for what I'm doing. It's a little pricey, but I considered doing it through them to help her out. Being a bit sensitive to intellectual property issues, I read the Terms of Use (ToU). It contains the following section: Idea submission statement Any ideas, proposals, and/or other information submitted or collected on this site shall be considered non-confidential. By submitting information to this site, or directly to Creative Memories, you agree that Creative Memories shall not be under any obligation of confidentiality or non-use, express or implied, with respect to any submissions, and Creative Memories may disclose or use any submission for any purpose whatsoever, at its sole discretion, with no obligation, express or implied, to compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied the information, idea and/or proposal in any manner. Now, that's a pretty far reaching claim. Here it is again, elided to focus on what I have a problem with. ... By submitting information to this site ... you agree that ... and Creative Memories may ... use any submission for any purpose whatsoever ... with no obligation ... to compensate or work with the person or entity that supplied [it] ... I've contacted them officially asking them just exactly what they intended to say here, in case it's less than the "your stuff is ours if you pay us to print it" interpretation I give it. No answer. I've also contacted them unofficially through the member/dealer network. The answer from that side is that it's so they can use excerpts of your stuff in their marketing material without having to find you, work with you, or pay you, though it wasn't phrased quite that way. Personally, I find this clause and the unofficial attitude quite disturbing. Am I overreacting? -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
