Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread Rfsindg
The K lenses are a bit bigger and a better fit on the KM, KX, K2, K1000.
For the ME and MX, you want the smaller lenses as part of the matching kit.

And that's the real beauty of the M's.  Carry a big, slow zoom or put the 50/1.4 on 
the camera and the M85/2.0 plus M150/3.5 in the bag.  You've got a small, light, nice 
handling camera kit that won't kill your shoulder and has prime lens sharpness.  
(Updated today to the limiteds, 43mm  77mm, plus the A20/2.8)

I think the weight issue was an important one for Pentax as they tried to combat the 
encroachment of Zoom lenses in the '70's.  Pentax was selling a full lens line and 
eschewing zooms, but getting killed at the camera counter by Vivitar and their zoom 
lenses.  The sales point was always 'inferior zoom' sharpness.  Eventually Pentax 
relented and added Zooms, but for a long time only the M zoom was the 40-80mm and that 
was introduced as by Pentax with an 'apology' on quality.  In the screwmount Takumars, 
the only Zoom I know of was the 85-210mm and the list price was US$600+ (more than a 
6x7 at the time!).

Regards,  Bob S.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 I've also really wondered how much REALLY smaller and lighter the M
 lenses are than the K lenses.  At the extreme focal lengths it is quite
 noticeable--the Ms weigh about half as much.  In the more normal focal
 length range they weigh about 75% of what the comparable K lens weighs.
 My ideal 20/28/50/105/200 kit weighs about 3.5 pounds if K lenses and 
 2.5 pounds if M lenses.  That's 70% of the weight of the K lenses, but
 the Ks are only an extra pound, and it's spread out over 5 
 lenses.



Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread John Forbes
If you are having to crop heavily there is an argument that you were using 
the wrong lens.  However, I do understand that in a high-pressure 
situation you have to work with what you've got.

John

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:50:20 -0600 (CST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Second, as has been pointed out elsewhere, one of the attractions of the
Pentax system is the petite construction of both cameras and lenses,
compared to competing products from Leitz, Zeiss, Nikon and Canon.
I'll concede this, at least in certain eras.  M and A series cameras
are smaller and lighter than the contemporary cameras from makers you
mention above, although perhaps no smaller than later Minolta or Olympus
OM which appear to have competed for the same market segment as Pentax.
K series and very recent Pentaxes are more similar to contemporary
consumer Nikons and Canons in weight.  Leitz and Zeiss of course have
always offered a premium product--Aston Martins aren't lightweight 
either.

I'll also suggest that the M and A series cameras are less capable and
less durable than the heavier cameras made by the other guys.  This
isn't an issue if you don't need the extra features or the tougher build.
Interestingly, Minolta and Olympus are the other two camera brands that
intrigue me, on the same basis as Pentax--good quality at very low
prices.  I've never considered Zeiss or Leitz.
For me there is also a different mindset to using something
small, simple, and competant for fun as opposed to the large,
rugged, and spectacularly capable stuff I use for work.
I'll still choose the heavier and slightly better K lens over the M
if all else is equal.  They are both an order of magnitude smaller
and lighter than my pro stuff.
Those who take pictures seated behind a tripod can choose a two-ton 
Canon
lens without fear of the consequences,
Most guys I know handhold their two-ton Canon lenses.  Holding up the
one-ton EOS1D cameras builds up their arm and back strength.
but those who hand-hold their cameras,
unless built like bears, value the light weight and small size of Pentax
kit, especially the M lenses (and cameras).
Honestly I find a heavier camera and lens to be stabler in handheld
shooting, at least until it starts to wear on my arm.
I've also really wondered how much REALLY smaller and lighter the M
lenses are than the K lenses.  At the extreme focal lengths it is quite
noticeable--the Ms weigh about half as much.  In the more normal focal
length range they weigh about 75% of what the comparable K lens weighs.
My ideal 20/28/50/105/200 kit weighs about 3.5 pounds if K lenses and
2.5 pounds if M lenses.  That's 70% of the weight of the K lenses, but
the Ks are only an extra pound, and it's spread out over 5 lenses.
Third, if you have to use a loupe to discern the difference between two
lenses, then you've surely missed the point.  We don't view pictures
under
microscopes (most of us, anyway), and if the difference is only
microscopic, then it's not a real difference at all.
I rarely intend a 36x24mm negative to be the final product of my 
photography.
If you crop heavily or make big enlargements that small quality 
difference
starts to stand out.  I can see the differences in quality between my
70-210/4 and 70-200/2.8 in a photo sized to run 6 3/8 wide in the
newspaper, although they don't show on the roughly film-sized screen
on the back of my D1h.  I'm not saying that all Ks outperform the Ms
like this, but that I do see noticeable effects of lens quality
in my normal work without having to drag out the loupe.

Fourth, if a lens will fit in a pocket, it's more likely to be there on
the scene when you need it than if it's a huge, heavy beast that needs
its own trolley.
I agree that some combination of F8 and be there and have a camera 
with
you are most of the secret to great journalistic-type photographs.  If a
lighter camera and lens makes you more likely to carry it then it is a
good thing.  It is relative, however.  I just replaced a motor-driven
Nikon F2 with a Nikkormat EL as my kickaround camera because I wanted a
smaller, lighter camera.  The EL is probably heavier than any Pentax SLR
ever made.

DJE





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Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread Shel Belinkoff
Hi Bob ...

For me it's different.  I love the way the K lenses look,
fit, and handle on the MX, especially the wide angle
optics.  I like the balance as well ...

As for zooms, don't forget that little jewel, the M 24~35,
and a lot of people like the M75~150.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 The K lenses are a bit bigger and a better fit on the KM, KX, K2, K1000.
 For the ME and MX, you want the smaller lenses as part of the matching kit.



Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

 As for zooms, don't forget that little jewel, the M 24~35,
 and a lot of people like the M75~150.

And the M80-200/4.5, which is said to be sharper than the M200/4 at
200. Although I had the 75-150, I bought the 80-200 instead of the
prime when I needed a 200.

Kostas



Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Shel Belinkoff a écrit :

Hi Bob ...

For me it's different.  I love the way the K lenses look,
fit, and handle on the MX, especially the wide angle
optics.  I like the balance as well ...
 

The most representative M  philosophy:

MX + M 2.8/40 Pancake
or
*ist D + M 2.8/40 Pancake


Re: more M philosophy

2004-03-03 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Michel Carrère-Gée wrote:

 The most representative M  philosophy:

 MX + M 2.8/40 Pancake
 or
 *ist D + M 2.8/40 Pancake

I don't think so. The Pancake was an extreme case, making a statement,
is my retrospective understanding.

Kostas