Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
On 20/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: I am even willing to skip the ice-cream part: haven't decided yet whether I should give it to my wife or to share with the rest of the PDMLers. :-) I'd like to see a portrait first before I commit ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:28:03 -0700 Cotty wrote: On 20/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: I am even willing to skip the ice-cream part: haven't decided yet whether I should give it to my wife or to share with the rest of the PDMLers. :-) I'd like to see a portrait first before I commit ;-) With one ear or two? ;-) Igor http://www.komkon.org/~igor/Google.gif
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Thanks to everybody who shared suggestions and recipes on and off the list. I am still going through some of those recipes. I am waiting for Tom and Cotty flying to San Diego and giving me a (free) ride on a rented airplane, so that we can open windows. :-) Igor
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
On 20/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: I am waiting for Tom and Cotty flying to San Diego and giving me a (free) ride on a rented airplane, so that we can open windows. :-) You got it, but honestly, a planes are crap. We need one a them there fancy helicopters. Easy to orientate by asking the pilot, nice and smooth in flight, and easy to shoot from. You'd absolutely love it. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
On 20/4/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed: You got it, but honestly, a planes are crap. We need one a them there fancy helicopters. Easy to orientate by asking the pilot, nice and smooth in flight, and easy to shoot from. You'd absolutely love it. In fact here's the very one I've shot from a dozen times: http://www.oxfordairservices.co.uk/services/aerial_photography.php Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:58:08 -0700 Cotty wrote: On 20/4/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed: You got it, but honestly, a planes are crap. We need one a them there fancy helicopters. Easy to orientate by asking the pilot, nice and smooth in flight, and easy to shoot from. You'd absolutely love it. In fact here's the very one I've shot from a dozen times: http://www.oxfordairservices.co.uk/services/aerial_photography.php Cheers, Cotty Cotty, Deal!.. Now, I'm just waiting for you to arrive with one of those 'copters and a pilot. I'll pay for the beer for all three of us (after the flight, of course). :-) There is a birthday song that is well known by all contemporary Russians. Here is a part of it: A magician will arrive in a blue helicopter. He will show a movie for free. He'll wish me a happy birthday, and probably will give me 500 ice-creams as a present. Movie, helicopter... Now, I am thinking it's about you, Cotty, isn't it? I am even willing to skip the ice-cream part: haven't decided yet whether I should give it to my wife or to share with the rest of the PDMLers. :-) Igor
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Igor, others may have better suggestions, but in my experience you should: Make sure that all your glass is as clean as possible. Remove any filters, unless you're using BW. It has been suggested that using a haze filter will help, but I am not sure I agree. Make sure the cabin window is clean and not misted up at all. Don't rest the camera on your hand against the window - this just transmits vibrations from the airframe. If you're shooting JPG, maybe set the contrast higher than normal. Bracket - the light at altitude can be very deceptive, and your subject may be in much less contrasty light than it looks from the air. HTH Can't help you on the USM state of your image - it looks close to being over-sharpened to my eye, but I have only looked at the JPG version. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: Igor Roshchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
On 18/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? Open the window. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Op Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:03:01 +0200 schreef Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 18/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? Open the window. I always request a seat next to the emergency exit :o) -- Regards, Lucas
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Lucas Rijnders wrote: Op Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:03:01 +0200 schreef Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 18/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? Open the window. I always request a seat next to the emergency exit :o) --Regards, Lucas --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/318 - Release Date: 18.4.2006 I had a go at the big file -- downloaded from your directory. A bit of work with 'Levels' makes a world of difference. Even 'Auto-contrast' improves the picture. I'm sure you've tried this yourself by now? Its a good picture that can be fixed easily. I didn't notice and sharpening artifacts. Don -- Dr E D F Williams www.kolumbus.fi/mimosa/ personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams/ 41660 TOIVAKKA – Finland - +358400706616
RE: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
There you are again, :-))) Saúde, Manuel -Mensagem original- De: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviada: quarta-feira, 19 de Abril de 2006 8:03 Para: pentax list Assunto: Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask On 18/4/06, Igor Roshchin, discombobulated, unleashed: 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? Open the window. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor
RE: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
From: Igor Roshchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? The problem is you're generally shooting through double panes. The interior pane is plexiglass or something like it. Very prone to scratches, thereby reducing contrast. When you're shooting very much downwards as in the city shots you're shooting through the part of the panes that have more curvature relative to to the perpendicular, straight out the window view. That tends to distort, warp, and I'm guessing... reduce the contrast. I can see the image degrade with my naked eye when I look anywhere other than almost straight out. So, unfortunately it'll likely be hard to get really good images when close to the ground, unless the plane is banking heavily and you can shoot straight out the center of the window. How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? Same as above. always try to shoot out the center of the winow, not down through the window. I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? http://www.weather-photography.com/techniques.php?cat=generalpage=filters 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) Almost every shot requires some degree of USM. It's very subjective. If your photo starts to appear granular or you can see halos on edges that weren't there before, you've likely overdone the USM. Not enough is usually better than too much. As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? Not in my opinion. It enhances the small detail such as windows in the buildings. It helps with thisimage becases it's reduced contrast to begin with and USM works by increasing edge contrast. It soes not look oversharpened. The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor I'm sure the shots taken from a small hired plane with an open window would be far superior to those taken from a commercial airliner. But most of don't have that kind of cash laying around. Tom C.
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) Keep in mind your target. Sharpening for the web is different than sharpening for a printer, for example. I believe some of the sharpening plug-ins available keep this in mind. Also, if you start to see halos, you've gone too far. IMHO, the image is too sharp... you've created some moire in the building windows. Frankly, it looks like it could benefit from an (auto)levels more than anything- makes the haze go away. -Ryan
RE: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
One more caveat. If you see a UFO, don't worry about all the stuff I just said and start firing away! :-) And let the government USM it all they want. Tom C. From: Igor Roshchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Thank you, Ryan and Tom for your responses. As for the airplane windows, - yes, indeed, - they are birefringent, - and that's the reason for not using polarizer with them. Ryan, I haven't noticed any moire on my screen. I was watching for that while choosing the level of the USM. Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:01:56 -0700 Tom C wrote: I'm sure the shots taken from a small hired plane with an open window would be far superior to those taken from a commercial airliner. But most of don't have that kind of cash laying around. If one can afford hiring (or even buying) one, - it doesn't even need to be that small, as long as you can open a window or a door in mid-air. :-) I wish I could. Tom, when you decide to hire a plane, please stop by and take me with you, - I'll show you the best places and angles to photograph. :-) Igor
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Igor Roshchin a écrit : Hello! [...] 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg Here is what I could do quite quickly (based on your full size version): http://www.lacouture.nom.fr/gallery/v/discuss/IMGP2417-2sm-PL.jpg.html What I did to it: - Duplicate the image to a new layer - Apply a HiRaLoAm to it: Unsharp masking with High Radius (50 pixels), low amount (40), and change blend mode to Luminosity. Select opacity for best results (75% here) - Create a Levels layer on top, and use it to adjust the levels manually: move the cursors to cut out the unused histogram areas in highlights and shadows, so shadows get darker and highlight get brighter. This to overcome the fact that the window glass kills the contrast from your image. - Create a Hue/Saturation layer again on top, and use it to add a bit of saturation to get back some color from the blue cast. - Resize as needed. - Duplicate the background layer again, and place it on top of the HiRaLoAm layer, below the adjustment layers. - Apply an classic Unsharp masking, with Low Radius (0.8 pixels), high amount (200!). Change blend mode to Darken (sharpening gets ugly in highlights much faster than in darker areas), and adjust the effect with the opacity cursor (here around 60%). I'd say it still needs some color correction to remove the blue cast... (I'll remove this photo from my website sometime soon. Just tell me if you want me to do so faster, Igor). In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? A bit. So is my version. Fine-tuning with two layers (one in darken mode, the other in lighten mode), with careful tweaking of radius and opacity, is time consuming, but usually gives very good results. Patrice
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Igor, I have found low contrast and peculiar color casts to be real problems. I haven't tried shooting in RAW, but next time I will. Rick --- Igor Roshchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor http://www.photo.net/photos/RickW __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Igor, I messed with it a little. Levels mainly in auto fix. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=106 UDM looks fine to me. Jack --- Igor Roshchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! I have two questions that are somewhat related to each other. 1. Photography from a commercial airplane. What suggestions do you have for taking pictures from a commercial airplane? How to make them sharper and overcome some type of cast that is often seen in the day-time images of this kind (not clouds yet, but enough to decrease he overall contrast)? How to avoid the flat look of the images (e.g. when taking photos of the mountains below)? I remember somebody's advise that one shouldn't use polarizers while shooting through airplane windows, but don't remember why. Can someone clarify this? 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) As an example, here is my photo of San Diego downtown taken from the plane. It is not a photo for presentation, just something that I am practicing on, and I am not happy with it. I wonder what else can be done to improve it. original photo: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sm.jpg and the one after unsharpen mask applied in PS: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/IMGP2417-2sharpsm.jpg In your opinion, is this image oversharpened? The full size JPEGS are ~2MB each are in this location: http://www.komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/SanDiego/ Thank you, Igor __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask
Also, if you start to see halos, you've gone too far. You are likely to see halos in pictures taken from an aeroplane, even if you have not done any sharpening ;-). For example: http://www.polarimage.fi/phenom/hl00142b.jpg Halos are one nice thing to look for and photograph when you're traveling airborne (and maybe bored with nothing to do). Antti-Pekka Antti-Pekka Virjonen Computec Oy www.computec.fi -Original Message- From: Ryan Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:50 AM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: photography from an airplane and unsharp mask 2. When do you use sharp/unsharp filters in the PS or other software? (any hints on how to judge a reasonable level?) Keep in mind your target. Sharpening for the web is different than sharpening for a printer, for example. I believe some of the sharpening plug-ins available keep this in mind. Also, if you start to see halos, you've gone too far. IMHO, the image is too sharp... you've created some moire in the building windows. Frankly, it looks like it could benefit from an (auto)levels more than anything- makes the haze go away. -Ryan
