[stop-imf] UK Committee calls for IMF reform

2000-02-27 Thread Chris Burford

Forwarded from stop-imf

I suggest that this list of reforms is very likely to have a chance of
implementation. The Labour Government will do nothing that is openly
against finance capital. 

The agenda of greater transparency will be hard to object to from any
quarter in view of some of the scandals about IMF funding.

That does not mean of course progressives should be content with this, but
it looks like a step on the road to bringing the IMF into a global
governance and global civil society.

(Not entirely a good thing of course either.)

But watch this space.

For example 

>the choice of IMF Managing Director should be a much more transparent and
>openly democratic process;

This proposal is neatly and innocently pitched in a situation where oddly,
third world countries would like the US favourite for the job, Fischer, but
the US is making a play of holding back out of courtesy to the Europeans
who want Koch-Weser. Some sort of tinkering with the election process would
be of interest to most participants. Meanwhile the underlying message is
that it is embarrassing if the head jobs at the WB and the IMF look like a
complete carve-up between Europe and America.

I suspect other of the reforms will be shrewdly pitched too, in a
thoroughly reformist way. Reprehensible though that may be, they may for
that very reason be more likely to happen.



Chris Burford

London



>Feb 24, 2000
>From: Angela Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>The UK's Treasury Committee which watchdogs the Treasury has released a
>report on the IMF following its recent inquiry.
>
>The committee heard and received written evidence from NGOs, academics and
>Treasury officials on aspects of IMF governance and its role. Much of
>which is published in the report, including the letter from UK academics
>and NGOs to the Committee concerning the MD selection process.
>
>Recommendations include:
>
>The Treasury should provide an annual report to parliament after the
>Autumn meetings on its work in the IMF;
>
>The IMF should publish agendas and minutes of Board meetings;
>
>the choice of IMF Managing Director should be a much more transparent and
>openly democratic process;
>
>the Chancellor should publish the UK voting record.
>
>Other recommendations focussed on the role of the IMF in transition
>countries (particularly Russia); encouraging developing countries to be
>involved in standard setting and codes; rules for including the private
>sector in crisis resolution; refocussing the IMF on its original mandate;
>increased transparency on conditionality; and a limited role for
>governance conditionality.
>
>The report is available from the Stationery Office (=A315.90) email orders
>to  or call 0845-7-585463.
>
>For copies of BWP submissions email me [   ]
>
>Angela.
>



China and the trade deficiet

2000-02-27 Thread Rod Hay

If China has a trade surplus of 100 billion dollars and the US suffers a
financial crisis, it will have a catastrophic effect on the Chinese
economy. A 100 billion surplus represents a 100 billion dependency on
the health of the US economy. (unless, of course, one is a neo-classical
who believes that the resources in the export industries could be
costlessly reallocated.)

Rod

--
Rod Hay
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The History of Economic Thought Archive
http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html
Batoche Books
http://Batoche.co-ltd.net/
52 Eby Street South
Kitchener, Ontario
N2G 3L1
Canada



Re: Re: China Deal Redux

2000-02-27 Thread Lisa & Ian Murray

I agree with your logic Doug, If the U.S. deficit with China approaches
even 100 billion I think the chances of a financial crisis for the U.S.
seems likely.  But, Scott is predicting a collapse for China and a
devaluation of the Chinese currency; something rather unlikley if the
Chinese are enjoying the surplus Scott is talking about.  That is what
seems troubling about his analysis of the numbers, at least as I read it.

Marty

What if there was a strategic attack on their currency?

http://www.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/CSGR/current/rbws4.pdf

http://www.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/CSGR/glob-fin/shark.pdf


See also "Currency and Coercion" by Jonathan Kirshner, Princeton U. Press
1995. Also, didn't Der Spiegel have a lengthy piece back in the summer of
'98 on how Goldman, Sachs and others attacked the Thai Bhat?

Doesn't price stability on basic commodities imported into the US depend on
putting deflationary "pressure" on those economies that supply the "factor
inputs"; the exporting of inflation here?

Ian



Re: Re: China Deal Redux

2000-02-27 Thread Martin Hart-Landsberg

On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Doug Henwood wrote:
> >My question is where does this financial crisis come from?  If I
> >understand Scott's logic correctly, he is predicting a financial crisis
> >for China, much like what Mexico experienced in 1994-95.
> 
> Sounds more like he's predicting a U.S. financial crisis, not a 
> Chinese one, at least in this context. A $600b c/a deficit would 
> probably shake even the giddiest New Economy partisan.
> 
> Doug
> 
I agree with your logic Doug, If the U.S. deficit with China approaches
even 100 billion I think the chances of a financial crisis for the U.S.
seems likely.  But, Scott is predicting a collapse for China and a
devaluation of the Chinese currency; something rather unlikley if the
Chinese are enjoying the surplus Scott is talking about.  That is what
seems troubling about his analysis of the numbers, at least as I read it.

Marty




Re: China Deal Redux

2000-02-27 Thread Doug Henwood

Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:

>More specifically, Scott adds that: "Following the USIT's own logic,
>assume that imports and exports continue to grow in the future at the
>rates predicted by its own model.  How long would it take before the trade
>deficit narrows? . . . it will take 50 years before the U.S. trade deficit
>with China stops expanding, with a peak deficit of $649 billion in 2048."
>However, Scott claims that this trend is really "unsustainable and would
>lead to a financial crisis long before the deficit with China reached
>anything approaching $600 billion."
>
>My question is where does this financial crisis come from?  If I
>understand Scott's logic correctly, he is predicting a financial crisis
>for China, much like what Mexico experienced in 1994-95.

Sounds more like he's predicting a U.S. financial crisis, not a 
Chinese one, at least in this context. A $600b c/a deficit would 
probably shake even the giddiest New Economy partisan.

Doug



[Fwd: [BRC-MUMIA] Report: Party for Mumia Success, Despite Police...]

2000-02-27 Thread Carrol Cox



 Original Message 
Subject: [BRC-MUMIA] Report: Party for Mumia Success, Despite Police...
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:13:45 -0800 (PST)
From: chris kinder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ...

Report: Party For Mumia Success, Despite Police Harassment!

The ILWU Rank and File Committee to Defend Mumia Abu-Jamal, and the
Labor 
Action Committee to Free Mumia Abu-Jamal, held a "Party for Mumia" on 
February 14th, at the ILWU Local 10 hall in San Francisco, to build
labor 
support for the next round of struggle to free this courageous fighter
for 
social justice.  With over 100 in attendance (on a Monday night) and
over 
$2000 collected through advance ticket sales, the event was a tremendous 
success despite TWICE being driven from venues by anti-Mumia forces!

The Oakland police were directly responsible for the first such attack
on 
this event.  The Party  was originally going to be held at a club, Sweet 
JimmieÕs, in Oakland, owned by a retired longshoreman.  As planning got 
under way, however, the Oakland police contacted the owner and said in
no 
uncertain terms that the event was "too controversial" and "not a good 
idea."  Facing the threat of police harassment, the club owner felt 
compelled to cancel the event.  Thus the cops, in line with the
nationwide 
Fraternal Order of Police campaign to kill Mumia, struck a blow at labor 
supporters of his cause in the Bay Area.

Determined not to be intimidated, the ILWU Committee and Labor Action 
Committee sought another venue for the event.  In solidarity, the Open
World 
Conference In Defense of Trade Union Independence and Democracy (OWC) 
offered the Bay View Boat Club, which they had reserved for a 
social/cultural evening for delegates to the conference.  Tickets sold
well 
after extensive promotion and a report on the cancellation of the first 
venue, which ran on KPFA News.  Within a couple hours of the event,
however, 
the Boat Club cancelled as well, without giving a clear reason.  We can
only 
assume the same forces were at work!

Though faced with a last minute scramble to get a new location and
redirect 
ticket holders, we were still confident.  Arrangements were made on
short 
notice to use the Henry Schmidt room at Local 10Õs headquarters in 
FishermanÕs Wharf, and to assemble supplies to replace the bar we had 
expected at the Boat Club.   The party went off without a hitch, as
guests 
danced to the music of dj Haywood Richmond, a longshoreman who
volunteered 
for the event, and enjoyed their evening in support of Mumia.  A
greeting 
card for Mumia was signed by participants at the party, including among 
others, members of Local 10 of the ILWU, Swedish and Liverpool
dockworkers, 
postal workers, letter carriers, communication workers, print workers,
and 
operating engineers, as well as Labor Video Project, Inkworks, October
22nd 
Coalition, Refuse and Resist, and the Mobilization to Free Mumia.

Individuals selling tickets in their unions were the biggest earners for
the 
event, with the longshore workers in the lead at $705, followed by East
Bay 
postal workers at $187.  A donation of $300 was voted by Local 10 of the 
ILWU as well.  Sales at political events, area bookstores, and donations 
helped boost the total to $2295, with some of the receipts still to come
in 
as of this writing.  Expenses for the Party, including printing of
tickets 
and flyers, and last minute supplies came to $396.71.  With a donation
for 
some of the expenses from the Labor Action Committee, a check for $2,000 
will be sent to the Bill of Rights Foundation, earmarked for MumiaÕs 
defense.

--Labor Action Committee to Free Mumia Abu-Jamal
PO Box 16222, Oakland CA 94610. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

REMINDER:  Come out to support the mass civil disobedience demo in San 
Francisco, 7th and Mission, at 8 am Monday 28 February!

__




BRC-MUMIA: Black Radical Congress - Mumia Abu-Jamal News/Info/Discussion



Questions/Problems: send email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




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China Deal Redux

2000-02-27 Thread Martin Hart-Landsberg

I want to raise a question about the logical consistency of Rob Scott's
February 16, 2000, Issue Brief #137.

Scott is, of course, arguing against China's admission into the WTO.
Scott notes that Clinton is "confidently forecasting that the huge U.S.
trade deficit with China will improve if Congress accords China permanent
normal trade relations in order to accommodate Beijing's membership in the
WTO."  But, argues Scott, that will not happen.  In fact, quite the
opposite is likely; the trade deficit will continue to grow.  Scott says
that China's entry will set "the stage for rapidly rising trade deficits
in the future that would severely depress employment in manufacturing."  

More specifically, Scott adds that: "Following the USIT's own logic,
assume that imports and exports continue to grow in the future at the
rates predicted by its own model.  How long would it take before the trade
deficit narrows? . . . it will take 50 years before the U.S. trade deficit
with China stops expanding, with a peak deficit of $649 billion in 2048."
However, Scott claims that this trend is really "unsustainable and would
lead to a financial crisis long before the deficit with China reached
anything approaching $600 billion."

My question is where does this financial crisis come from?  If I
understand Scott's logic correctly, he is predicting a financial crisis
for China, much like what Mexico experienced in 1994-95.  Thus Scott says
that China will be forced to devalue its currency.  "The [U.S. trade
deficit with NAFTA countries] expanded in part because, shortly after the
agreement took effect, Mexico devalued the peso in 1995 to increase the
competitiveness of Mexican products in the United States. . . . The USIT's
estimates of the benefits of that agreement assume fixed exchange rates.
But China will most likely follow a cycle similar to Mexico: sometime
after China enters the WTO is will experience a currency crisis and
devaluation which will be followed by surging FDI and then rapidly
expanding trade deficits."

I just do not get this.  Mexico went into crisis because its
liberalization resulted in growing trade deficits, covered only by greater
and greater inflows of foreign capital. When that capital started moving
out the government, faced with a large and growing structural trade
deficit, had no choice but to let the currency fall and the economy
contract.  But if Scott is correct, and China is going to be running
enormous trade surpluses with the U.S., where is the basis for its
currency crisis?

I am just interested in the internal consistency of the argument here.  Am
I missing something?  On the one hand, Scott seems to assume that China
will not liberalize but in fact will remain a closed economy and on this
basis will continue to run surpluses, thus hurting U.S. manufacturing
workers.  This will leave the Chinese economy strong.  On the other hand,
he is predicting a collapse of the Chinese economy, resulting in a big
devaluation, which will generate huge Chinese trade surpluses and thus
hurt U.S. manufacturing workers.  Scott seems to combine the two scenarios
as if they reinforce or fit together.  It seems to me that they are based
on very different predictions and both cannot be true.  

Marty Hart-Landsberg




Re: BLS Daily Report

2000-02-27 Thread Timework Web

BLS Daily Report: "The number of work stoppages hit an all-time low in
1999, with only 17 reported, BLS said.  The 17 work stoppages amounted to
half the number reported in 1998 and the lowest since BLS started keeping
records in 1947. In the early 1950s, the high point of work stoppages,
nearly 500 stoppages a year idled workplaces.  The previous low was in
1997 when BLS reported 29 stoppages."  

Timothy Fogarty: "Under active lobbying from business leaders, the
U.S. Congress passed the Taft-Hartley Act in 1947. This legislation
constrained the spread of union organization especially in its
designation of certain union activities as unfair labor practices. In
addition, in the early 1950s, unions were placed on the defensive by
allegations of communist infiltration. These developments stunted much of
the momentum that had previously fostered the growth of unions. After
1955, labor relations were increasingly subdued as union power waned." 

Stuart Ewen: "The 1930s and then the 1960s were periods in which the
challenge to the business system became widespread. If you want to see the
flowering of corporate public relations strategies look at the decade
following those periods. After World War Two a kind of gung-ho corporate
public-relations strategy tries to present the private business system as
the quintessence of the American Way -- a kind of commercialistic
rendition of democracy. This became almost a national ideology used to
roll back policies and ideas that came out of the 1930s New Deal -- for
example, the very idea that government might compete with business by
providing public housing. In the 1960s people began to wonder if democracy
was being violated by a destabilized business system. In the 1970s and
1980s, with the triumph of Reagan and Thatcherism, there comes to fruition
a set of national public relations strategies catalyzed by the political
issues of the Sixtes."

On page 308 of _PR!: a social history of spin_, Ewen mentions the Public
Relations Advisory Board of the National Association of Manufacturers. The
board was responsible for developing the "American Way" public relations
counter-offensive against the labor policies of the New Deal.

In 1938 the board was made up of representatives of major corporations,
among them McGraw-Hill Book Company. McGraw-Hill also ran a regular public
relations forum. A report on the forum in the October 1939 Public Opinion
Quarterly (p. 704-709) makes it clear that the labor issue was an over
riding concern.

After the war, in 1946, the McGraw-Hill Book Company published _The
American individual enterprise system, its nature, evolution and future_
written by the Economic principles commission of the National Association
of Manufacturers. Since the turn of the century, the Association had put
"educating public opinion" high on their agenda and has produced much
"educational" literature. Also, as Philip Wright wrote in the 1915
Quarterly Journal of Economics article, "It endeavored to interest the
college world in its propaganda. . ." 

Roger Burlingame's 1959 corporate bio of McGraw-Hill, _Endless Frontiers_
gives a fascinating account of a species of textbook marketeers called
"college travelers" that expanded rapidly with the advent of the G.I. Bill
after the end of World War II. The traveler's job was to go from campus to
campus talking to faculty, showing them the M-H textbooks in their field,
sounding them out about what they are teaching, what they are writing
about, what they need in a textbook, coaching the young faculty on how
they might make their output more saleable.

Tom Walker



Henry Liu on the Diallou verdict.

2000-02-27 Thread Louis Proyect

The Diallo case is a clear manifestation of systemic brutality.  When news
first came across on television that four members of a white police elite
force
unleashed a barrage of gunfire that required squeezing the triggers of their
semiautomatic weapons 41 times at an unarmed African immigrant in his own
vestibule in the Bronx, the first reaction from most viewers was dismay and
incredulousness which gradually transformed to resignation and expectation.

The facts of the case were not in dispute.  An unarmed man with a "dangerous"
racial profile in a neighborhood "hostile" to the police was gunned down
reflexively by a police force conditioned to kill first and ask question
later,
for making an otherwise benign motion of attempting to show his I.D. in his
wallet.

Despite the sensational nature of the killing, the media was immediately
accused by the system as having sensationalized the incident.
The venus of the trial was move to Albany where such racial profiling of both
victim and neighborhood is consider a natural fact of life by a white jury.
Apparently, it was not possible to find 12 fair-minded persons in the Bronx.
As expected, the officers were acquitted on the ground that they did not
violate any departmental guidelines.

Yet an innocent men was killed, for having the wrong profile and for having
his
home in the wrong neighberhood. The verdict was that Diallo fault was his
color
and his address and that he actually caused his own murder.  The verdict
implied that had Diallo been white and lived on Park Avenue, his shooting
death
by the police would have been unquestionably a murderous crime.

The verdict was perfectly consistent and logical within the societal values of
the system. Both the prosecution and the defense lauded the justice system for
"working" in a very "difficult" case.

Yet an innocent man was killed by the very authority whose very function
was to
protect him from criminal harm.  Just because individual police officers were
found by the justice system to be not at fault, that does not make the
crime of
murder disappear.  These four white men killed a black man who was not
breaking
any laws.

If police departmental guidelines result in such murders, then obviously such
guideline are guilty. The institutional culprit, by the logic of the verdict,
must be the law enforcement establishment specifically and the social system
generally.

The verdict of not guilty is a condanmnation of the justice system.  It is a
declaration theta justice is part and partial of an unjust socio-political
system that has been flawed at its founding, that high sounding words of
freedom and equal justice for all has color limits.  The justice system
logically draws from the depth of the American psyche that to be non-white
is a
structural social crime that can justify institutional mass paranoia.

Diallo's human right had been violated twice, once when he was killed for
being
of the wrong color, and the second time for being denied justice in his
wrongful death for being the wrong color. Yet the Federal Civil Right Division
is hinting that a successful civil right violation suit would be difficult for
lack of direct evidence.  That position may be arguable relating to charges
against the four police officers, but the evidence of institutional human
rights violation is undeniable.  Again, the justice system is not designed to
police the institutional faults of the system, because The Us cannot accept
that the system is structurally flaw, only that individuals sometimes violate
the just rules of a perfect system.

The annual country reports on human rights just released by the State
Department dealt with more than 100 countries which the US considered in
violation of international norms. American citizens who are outraged and
frustrated by the the structural institutional injustice of their system can
file, through their NGOs, a dissenting report on US conditions and sponsor a
resolution to censor the US government at the UN Human Rights Commission in
Geneva.


Henry C.K. Liu

Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/



Bad writing

2000-02-27 Thread Louis Proyect

"Mystification is simple. Clarity is the hardest thing of all. You trust
the mystifier more if you know his deliberately choosing not to be lucid.
You would trust Picasso all the way because he could draw like Ingres."

Julian Barnes, "Flaubert's Parrot"
(author/quote in today's NY Times acrostic)

Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/



BLS Daily Report

2000-02-27 Thread Richardson_D

BLS DAILY REPORT, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2000

RELEASED TODAY:  Unemployment rates decreased in 35 states and the District
of Columbia from 1998 to 1999.  All four regions and eight of the nine
geographic divisions also had rate declines.  The national jobless rate
decreased from 4.5 percent to 4.2 percent from 1998 to 1999. ...  

The number of work stoppages hit an all-time low in 1999, with only 17
reported, BLS said.  The 17 work stoppages amounted to half the number
reported in 1998 and the lowest since BLS started keeping records in 1947.
In the early 1950s, the high point of work stoppages, nearly 500 stoppages a
year idled workplaces.  The previous low was in 1997 when BLS reported 29
stoppages.  In its work stoppage report, BLS counts strikes and lockouts
involving at least 1,000 workers and lasting at least one shift. ...  Twelve
of the 17 work stoppages in 1999 were in the private sector.  The remaining
five occurred in state and local government education services. ...  (Daily
Labor Report, page D-4).

Initial claims filed with state agencies for unemployment insurance benefits
decreased by 7,000 to a seasonally adjusted 278,000 in the week ended Feb.
19, the Labor Department's Employment and Training Administration announced.
...  The seasonally adjusted insured unemployment rate remained at 1.7
percent for the week ended Feb. 12, the most recent date for which this
information is available.  This figure indicates the number of people
covered by the unemployment insurance law who are actually receiving
benefits. ...  (Daily Labor Report, page D-1). 

Factory orders for big-ticket manufactured goods fell in January, led by the
steepest decline in orders for electronic and other electrical equipment in
2.5 years.  The Commerce Department reported that orders for durable goods
-- items expected to last at least three years -- dropped by 1.3 percent
last month, the first decline since October. ...  (Washington Post, page
E2).

Most regions of the country logged a greater volume of help-wanted
advertisements in January than in December, raising the Conference Board's
help-wanted index 3 points to 89 percent.  The index, which is based on
help-wanted ads appearing in 51 U.S. newspapers, compares monthly ad levels
with the average volume recorded in 1987.  The difference is expressed as a
percentage. ...  (Daily Labor Report, page A-1).

Lump-sum payment provisions were found in 15 percent of all non-construction
contracts negotiated in 1999, according to an analysis by BNA of 762
collective bargaining agreements that together cover more than 1.9 million
workers.  Seventeen percent of agreements analyzed in 1998 and 22 percent in
1997 included lump-sum provisions.  The weighted average first-year wage
increase in all non-construction settlements reported in 1999 was 3.1
percent, and the median wage increase was 3 percent.  In settlements with
lump-sum payments, the weighted average increase was 4 percent, and the
median increase was 3 percent.  Agreements without lump sums provided a
weighted average first-year increase of 2.9 percent and a median increase of
3 percent. ...  (Daily Labor Report, page D-7).

The U.S. economy is staying robust this quarter despite some wan January
stats.  Weather skewed the January data--sometimes up, sometimes down.  Job
growth soared because the Labor Department took its survey during a mild
week.  Then the winter turned harsh, keeping shoppers indoors, which
depressed the month's retail sales.  But, despite the deep freeze and
snowstorms, builders still managed to break ground on more new homes.  The
strongest argument against a meaningful moderation in growth comes from the
industrial sector.  Manufacturing, unfazed by winter's whims, is
accelerating.  Based on past patterns, it would be highly unlikely that
overall growth is slowing at a time when this extremely cyclical segment of
the economy is speeding up. ...  (Business Week, Feb. 28, pages 29-30).


 application/ms-tnef


Suburbia

2000-02-27 Thread Louis Proyect

NY Times, February 27, 2000

Picture Windows: How the Suburbs Happened 
By ROSALYN BAXANDALL and ELIZABETH EWEN

Reviewed by SAMUEL G. FREEDMAN

(clip)

For all their populism, however, Baxandall and Ewen have not written an
apologia for suburbia. Their book will unsettle the social conservatives
who hallow the image of nuclear families on leafy streets as much as it
will the cosmopolitans. In tracing the development of Nassau County's
suburbs from the plutocrats who erected estates on the ''Gold Coast''
lining Long Island Sound to the Salvadoran laborers living 20 or 30 to a
house in the blue-collar sections of the South Shore, the authors devote
plenty of attention to class and racial bias. In the 1920's, magnates
manipulated state law to allow them to declare their estates separate
municipalities (with the family and servants as the sole residents),
thereby depriving others of access to beaches and roads. A few decades
later, William Levitt created Levittown partly on the principle of barring
nonwhites. Baxandall and Ewen inform us that Levitt himself had practiced
white flight, leaving his Brooklyn neighborhood after a black attorney
moved in next door. 

The authors do not accept it as some kind of fact of nature that the
suburbs should have been developed almost entirely by private capital. They
write at length about the New Deal planned community of Greenbelt, Md., as
a potential model for public housing in suburbia, and also point favorably
to the New York apartment complex built by the Amalgamated Clothing Workers
Union. Fearful of losing market share to huge public construction -- a
prospect supported in the postwar years by the powerful building-trades
unions as well as by liberal politicians -- Levitt formed an alliance with
Senator Joseph McCarthy, the future redbaiter. In a series of Congressional
hearings in the late 1940's, described in fascinating detail by the
authors, McCarthy effectively portrayed private housing as central to
American democracy. (Levitt, of course, had no moral qualms about selling
to customers who had federally backed mortgages.)

(clip)

Full Review at:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/02/27/reviews/000227.27freedmt.html

First chapter of book at:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/baxandall-picture.html


Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/



Re: Re: Virtual debate

2000-02-27 Thread Rob Schaap

G'day Doug,

>So we passed Turing's test?

Yep, now we KNOW you're human.  A little-known qualification Turing
mentioned in his paper was that the interrogator shouldn't be allowed to ask
mathematical questions, as here the computer would establish its
non-humanity beyond doubt.  As the upshot of this discussion is that clearly
neither you nor Louis has calculated the market's near-term prospects, I
consider your humanity well and truly established.

But the again ... he did show earlier on that certain mathematical problems
cannot formally be solved ...

Anyway, as it happens, I agree with that Stanford boffin.  Atleast insofar
as it's something we should be thinking about carefully.  

One thing mailing lists prove is that we behave very differently towards
each other in e-space than we do toe-to-toe.  In terms of the
supplementation of meaning, the regulation of behaviour, the generation of
empathy - shit, even the reinforcement of a sense of intersubjectivity,
rather than subject-to-object relations - in all these regards, e-mail is
something very different - and infinitely emptier of humanity - than putting
your faces in the same space.

Mebbe most of us might be alright - being as how we're people who had real
social intercourse (whether we wanted it or not) throughout the crucial
years of our socialisation and individuation - but mebbe those for whom this
medium has taken the place of much of that process, well, that'd be a bit of
a worry, no?  

Luddishly yours,
e-Rob.