Re: Re: "you simply ignore the benefits of dams" -- Kenneth Hanly
Ken Hanly wrote: >How does it follow from this example that dams > have no benefits or that you do not ignore the benefits? Ken, according to the US DoE the contribution of new hydropower planned or commissioned by US utilities under green power marketing initiatives is 0.0% of the total (which itself is a miserable 225 MW, ie equivalent to about one medium sized fossil burning station). The industry itself no longer believes in dams. Mark
Re: "you simply ignore the benefits of dams" -- Kenneth Hanly
What has this to do with your ignoring the benefits. It confirms my view. Sending an article that after irrelevant forays into SHells predation in Nigeria and how nasty the new capitalists in Russia are shows the disastrous results of one dam on one tribe. It fails even to mention whether there was any agreement with the tribe to build the dam. How does it follow from this example that dams have no benefits or that you do not ignore the benefits? Cheers, Ken Hanly Mark Jones wrote: > [The meat for this posting comes from Journal of Political Ecology Vol.5 > 1998 No 1, article by J. Stephen Lansing, Philip S. Lansing and Juliet S. > Erazo. Mark Jones] > > Building dams almost always takes place on land occupied by First Nations or > people considered marginal and worthy of dispossession and 'resettlement'. > > Of course, if you steal people's land and livelihoods from them, as happened > in the case of First Nations everywhere, most recently in the case of the > Ogoni in West Nigeria, whose land was turned into a reeking swamp of oil > pollution and gas flaring by Shell Oil (whose royalties financed the > government which then executed Ogoni playwright Ken Saro Wiwa), and you > decant them into some reservation and give them a few shovels to get by, > then you can expect them to turn nasty. > > If, as in the case of for example Russia, capitalism's grandest and newest > reservation, you systematically promote the activites of notorious thieves > and robbers, making a new politico-financial elite of the most criminalised, > anti-social groupings, which is what the West did, then you can get virulent > anti-Americanism as one possible response, but you can also spread the idea > that in Western eyes, theft, cynicism, uncontrolled greed, plunder and a > devil-take-the-hindmost attitude to one's fellow citizens, are all > commendable, jolly good things which are normative western values. You > cannot be surprised if your quislings and placemen then turn into natives > before your very eyes and start to behave in the same way, even biting the > hand that feeds them, and do it without displaying any of the conventional > hypocrisy which masks such behaviour and conceals the true selfishness > behind the superficial good-neighbourliness of westerners. > > Shocked by the appalling lack of gratitude and general bad manners of your > victims, the next logical thing to do is to call in the anthropologists, a > special breed of men and women invented in Victorian England for the sake of > salving bad consciences and explaining away in pseudo-scientific terms the > anti-social behaviour of colonial peoples traumatised by our own plundering, > genocidal behaviour. If you really want to see the kind of behaviour Dolan > describes in its most florid expression, you have to read not anthropology > but the works of Primo Levi, the Auschwitz victim who survived until 1987 > before committing suicide as the consequence of his unassuagable guilt and > endless waking nightmare. In works such as 'The Truce' (1963) and 'The > Drowned and the Saved' (1986) he shows how physical torture and annihilation > inevitably produce spiritual degradation and the complicity of the victim in > the process. > > This in particular is what destroys the sense of worth and self-esteem of > survivors; it is what drove Levi to kill himself and what drives people on > reservations to drink, demoralisation and early death. SS anthropologists > had a field day observing the odd behaviour of the Jews in the camps and > rationalising it for a grateful posterity. It's their Jewishness, you see. > The Jews are well known for being cunning, conniving, deceitful, > anti-social, thieving, beggar-my-neighbour etc. > > I can give you an example closer to home of what happens when you steal > people's birthright. The Skokomish Indians lived in the Olympic mountains > in western Washington state. Unfortunately for them a utility company > decided to build dams and hydropower plants on the Skokomish River: after > all, who really needed the kind of value-subtracting actvities like > year-round salmon-fishing and celebrating nature which the Skokomish were > into? Just like at the kind of futile existence these people had before > they got the benefits of modernity: the Skokomish regarded the valley of the > North Fork as the home of their ancestors, an idea which recently received > archaeological support with the discovery of prehistoric village sites that > were inundated by the flooding of Lake Cushman caused by the construction of > the first power dam. > > The age of these sites was estimated at between 5000 to 8000 years old based > on the style of artifacts found and their similarity to other presumed > "Olcott" sites in the Pacific. In the nineteenth century the valley was also > a major village site. The valley was the center for many important resources > for the Skokomish, including flocks of waterfowl, large herds of elk that > wintered in
"you simply ignore the benefits of dams" -- Kenneth Hanly
[The meat for this posting comes from Journal of Political Ecology Vol.5 1998 No 1, article by J. Stephen Lansing, Philip S. Lansing and Juliet S. Erazo. Mark Jones] Building dams almost always takes place on land occupied by First Nations or people considered marginal and worthy of dispossession and 'resettlement'. Of course, if you steal people's land and livelihoods from them, as happened in the case of First Nations everywhere, most recently in the case of the Ogoni in West Nigeria, whose land was turned into a reeking swamp of oil pollution and gas flaring by Shell Oil (whose royalties financed the government which then executed Ogoni playwright Ken Saro Wiwa), and you decant them into some reservation and give them a few shovels to get by, then you can expect them to turn nasty. If, as in the case of for example Russia, capitalism's grandest and newest reservation, you systematically promote the activites of notorious thieves and robbers, making a new politico-financial elite of the most criminalised, anti-social groupings, which is what the West did, then you can get virulent anti-Americanism as one possible response, but you can also spread the idea that in Western eyes, theft, cynicism, uncontrolled greed, plunder and a devil-take-the-hindmost attitude to one's fellow citizens, are all commendable, jolly good things which are normative western values. You cannot be surprised if your quislings and placemen then turn into natives before your very eyes and start to behave in the same way, even biting the hand that feeds them, and do it without displaying any of the conventional hypocrisy which masks such behaviour and conceals the true selfishness behind the superficial good-neighbourliness of westerners. Shocked by the appalling lack of gratitude and general bad manners of your victims, the next logical thing to do is to call in the anthropologists, a special breed of men and women invented in Victorian England for the sake of salving bad consciences and explaining away in pseudo-scientific terms the anti-social behaviour of colonial peoples traumatised by our own plundering, genocidal behaviour. If you really want to see the kind of behaviour Dolan describes in its most florid expression, you have to read not anthropology but the works of Primo Levi, the Auschwitz victim who survived until 1987 before committing suicide as the consequence of his unassuagable guilt and endless waking nightmare. In works such as 'The Truce' (1963) and 'The Drowned and the Saved' (1986) he shows how physical torture and annihilation inevitably produce spiritual degradation and the complicity of the victim in the process. This in particular is what destroys the sense of worth and self-esteem of survivors; it is what drove Levi to kill himself and what drives people on reservations to drink, demoralisation and early death. SS anthropologists had a field day observing the odd behaviour of the Jews in the camps and rationalising it for a grateful posterity. It's their Jewishness, you see. The Jews are well known for being cunning, conniving, deceitful, anti-social, thieving, beggar-my-neighbour etc. I can give you an example closer to home of what happens when you steal people's birthright. The Skokomish Indians lived in the Olympic mountains in western Washington state. Unfortunately for them a utility company decided to build dams and hydropower plants on the Skokomish River: after all, who really needed the kind of value-subtracting actvities like year-round salmon-fishing and celebrating nature which the Skokomish were into? Just like at the kind of futile existence these people had before they got the benefits of modernity: the Skokomish regarded the valley of the North Fork as the home of their ancestors, an idea which recently received archaeological support with the discovery of prehistoric village sites that were inundated by the flooding of Lake Cushman caused by the construction of the first power dam. The age of these sites was estimated at between 5000 to 8000 years old based on the style of artifacts found and their similarity to other presumed "Olcott" sites in the Pacific. In the nineteenth century the valley was also a major village site. The valley was the center for many important resources for the Skokomish, including flocks of waterfowl, large herds of elk that wintered in the valley, and many kinds of useful plants including ironwood, yew, bear grass, berries and cedar. A detailed picture of the importance of these resources for the Skokomish is provided by the work of William Elmendorf. Elmendorf was an anthropologist who conducted fieldwork among the Skokomish for nearly twenty years, and published a comprehensive ethnographic monograph on The Structure of Twana Culture in 1960. Many of Elmendorf's informants spoke to him about their activities in the valley before the dams were built: hunting for deer, elk, bear, wolf and marmots in the mountains, spearing ducks and geese from cano
