Re: [PEN-L] Re: My one and only reply to Levy
On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, Gerald Levy wrote: LNP didn't (and doesn't) like Bob Malecki. Well, OK ... he's not exactly my favorite person either. But, Proyect decided that since he didn't like Malecki (a personal grudge), he would [try to] chase him off of cyberspace by maliciously claiming that he was an FBI agent! There is *absolutely no* proof for this charge yet LNP has made it over and over and over again on several lists. This is the problem Jerry. You say you are critical of Malecki, yet you have never spent any energy criticizing this guy, who as Lou points out, has been kicked off almost every list he has ever been on. Now, it is odd that you spend much more energy attacking Doug or Lou, both of whom have considerable respect for their contributions to this list (recall Gil's statement), yet have never spent that kind of energy attacking someone almost every sane person disdains, namely Malecki. Lou's sin was simple and he apologized for it, publicly, I don't know what more he could do to atone for his sin of calling Malecki an agent without direct proof. Lou restated his claim that Malecki is a loonytune who takes delight in creating disruption on left lists. That is very obvious and not something that anyone disagrees with who has the capacity to discern, at least not on this list. But clearly Doug's contributions make you angrier than Malecki's. That is telling... Steve
[PEN-L] Re: My one and only reply to Levy
Louis Proyect wrote: becoming a pro-management snitch). Levy, I was going to ignore this as I used to ignore your ravings on the Marxism-International mailing-list. I think most people on PEN-L are starting to form the same sort of impression of you that people already have on the Spoons-List. You are a person who forms personal vendettas that will last with you until go to your grave. Malecki was on PEN-L so people have a memory of who and what he was. There is no reason to respond to anything else that LNP wrote in his post other than the above since it *by itself* condemns him ... forever. LNP didn't (and doesn't) like Bob Malecki. Well, OK ... he's not exactly my favorite person either. But, Proyect decided that since he didn't like Malecki (a personal grudge), he would [try to] chase him off of cyberspace by maliciously claiming that he was an FBI agent! There is *absolutely no* proof for this charge yet LNP has made it over and over and over again on several lists. What are we to make of someone who knowingly attempts to destroy a person's reputation and isolate him politically by spreading malicious lies that he (and other Trotskyists over at Spoons like Hugh and Dave B) is a cop? For those who have never been politically active, the issue of cop-baiting may not appear to be such a big deal. For those that have any history of political activism, though, you know how insidious a form of behavior it is. Indeed, it was the FBI itself through the COINTELPRO program that often spread the rumor that members of the Black Panther Party and some other radical groups were cops (or, more specifically, FBI agents). But Proyect didn't do this once -- he did it repeatedly. That makes him scum in my book and ... yes, I do have a long memory. If we are serious about politics, we need to remember who are the snitches and cop-baiters. Jerry
Re: [PEN-L] Re: My one and only reply to Levy
Stephen E Philion wrote: This is the problem Jerry. You say you are critical of Malecki, yet you have never spent any energy criticizing this guy, Where do you get your information from? Just recently, I criticized him publicly (and repeatedly). Lou's sin was simple and he apologized for it, publicly, And, *after apologizing*, he made the same charge again and again and again on several mailing lists. There was simply *NO* excuse for LNP's malicious behavior -- and it is of a scale far worse than anything that Bob M has ever done. There can be no forgiving or forgetting such vile behavior. Jerry
Re: [PEN-L] Re: My one and only reply to Levy
jerry, On M-I and Pen-L you have singled out Doug for your bitter attacks. I subscribe to these two lists and have not seen you attack anyone else with such bitterness. As Michael Yates and James Devine have pointed out, your criticisms are especially vitriolic, which this list is not supportive of. On this list I have seen people getting into extended debates with Doug on different issues, but none telling him to go back to school...you leave your readers with little choice but to believe this is personal, not political. Think of it like this. Maurce Dobb and Paul Sweezy had a very lively debate in the 1950's. Their views were largely irreconcilable, yet neither party ever sunk to telling the other one "to go back to school to learn (fill in th eblank)..." Brenner and Wallerstein likewise had a very fierce debate in the 80's, again without sinking to such remarks... Ya wanna debate Doug, fine. Offer an alternative to his book after finally reading it? Fine. Great even, this list is for that. But the petty personal attacks we can do without.
Re: [PEN-L] Re: My one and only reply to Levy
Stephen E Philion wrote: Think of it like this. Maurce Dobb and Paul Sweezy had a very lively debate in the 1950's. Their views were largely irreconcilable, yet neither party ever sunk to telling the other one "to go back to school to learn (fill in th eblank)..." Brenner and Wallerstein likewise had a very fierce debate in the 80's, again without sinking to such remarks... We live in a different era: we have the Internet as a resource. What we write on the Net, we will surely be held responsible for. Unfortunately, subscribers to PEN can only see the tip of the iceberg as they have not read what DH has written on other lists. Yet, what he said on those lists is publicly available. For those who have the ambition to search through the archives of those lists, I am convinced that they will find my comments justified (and will also discover a side of DH that they are not familiar with). Jerry
