RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
The larger question is misconduct by a law enforcement agency that is acquiring increasing powers as we speak, not the possible details of a domestic dispute. We should keep our priorities straight. mbs While clearly the verdict in this trial is appropriate, in that the FBI and the Oakland PD failed to properly investigate the bombing and blamed the victims in a political attack against them, it does not address the larger question: Who *did* bomb Judy Bari? That the FBI botched the investigation does not mean the FBI itself bombed her. I've already been accused of being an FBI flunky for not buying into the Ruppert conspiracy nonsense about 9-11. But I don't buy into the FBI-bombed-Bari story, either. From my perspective, the simplest solution is usually the best, and when a woman gets attacked nine times out of ten it's by a man in her life; in this case, the husband. See: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/23/judibari/index_np.html tim --- Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please expand, with links if possible. max -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:26732] Re: Judi Bari Wins! This is excellent news, but just think what the trial would have been like if the judge had allowed the COINTELPRO story to be told. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
Watching a fund-raising industry develop around the Bari case by a fake environmental movement has been disgusting. I haven't seen yet there's been any money awarded, but I'll bet bottom dollar that almost none of it goes to actual environmental work. People got rich on this case-- people who knew from the get-go that the hubby did it, but put forward the FBI-did-it story in order to raise millions of dollars from good-willed people around the country. Those millions of dollars went into fake and inter-changeable non-profit organizations with the same five or six people as employees and directors. Anyone who asked questions about this, though, was accused of being in the pay of the FBI, cutting off honest discussion. The largest question of all is Did any of the Earth First work on the north coast save even one tree from the timber industry? tim --- Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The larger question is misconduct by a law enforcement agency that is acquiring increasing powers as we speak, not the possible details of a domestic dispute. We should keep our priorities straight. mbs While clearly the verdict in this trial is appropriate, in that the FBI and the Oakland PD failed to properly investigate the bombing and blamed the victims in a political attack against them, it does not address the larger question: Who *did* bomb Judy Bari? That the FBI botched the investigation does not mean the FBI itself bombed her. I've already been accused of being an FBI flunky for not buying into the Ruppert conspiracy nonsense about 9-11. But I don't buy into the FBI-bombed-Bari story, either. From my perspective, the simplest solution is usually the best, and when a woman gets attacked nine times out of ten it's by a man in her life; in this case, the husband. See: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/23/judibari/index_np.html tim --- Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please expand, with links if possible. max -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:26732] Re: Judi Bari Wins! This is excellent news, but just think what the trial would have been like if the judge had allowed the COINTELPRO story to be told. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
I'm more afraid of the FBI than of Earth First. No tree-hugger ever denied me my constitutional rights. mbs The largest question of all is Did any of the Earth First work on the north coast save even one tree from the timber industry? tim --- Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The larger question is misconduct by a law enforcement agency that is acquiring increasing powers as we speak, not the possible details of a domestic dispute. We should keep our priorities straight. mbs While clearly the verdict in this trial is appropriate, in that the FBI and the Oakland PD failed to properly investigate the bombing and blamed the victims in a political attack against them, it does not address the larger question: Who *did* bomb Judy Bari? That the FBI botched the investigation does not mean the FBI itself bombed her. I've already been accused of being an FBI flunky for not buying into the Ruppert conspiracy nonsense about 9-11. But I don't buy into the FBI-bombed-Bari story, either. From my perspective, the simplest solution is usually the best, and when a woman gets attacked nine times out of ten it's by a man in her life; in this case, the husband. See: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/23/judibari/index_np.html tim --- Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please expand, with links if possible. max -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:26732] Re: Judi Bari Wins! This is excellent news, but just think what the trial would have been like if the judge had allowed the COINTELPRO story to be told. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
Tim gives a very hard edge to a serious controversy. I was interviewed by a woman writing a book about the role of the hubby-bomber. He makes it sound as if those who doubt his guilt think that the FBI planted the bomb. I doubt that many people believe that. The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away. In response to Max's question, the judge refused to let the plaintiffs put on a case based on the past practices of the FBI. The case against the FBI was not so much that they planted the bomb, but that once they accused Bari and Cherney, they began to use their guilt as an excuse to start going after people associated with the environmental movement. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
How long was 'right away'? suspiciously, max Tim gives a very hard edge to a serious controversy. I was interviewed by a woman writing a book about the role of the hubby-bomber. He makes it sound as if those who doubt his guilt think that the FBI planted the bomb. I doubt that many people believe that. The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away.
RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
Title: RE: [PEN-L:26750] Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins! Michael Perelman writes: Tim gives a very hard edge to a serious controversy. I was interviewed by a woman writing a book about the role of the hubby-bomber. He makes it sound as if those who doubt his guilt think that the FBI planted the bomb. I doubt that many people believe that. The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away. couldn't the bombing have been by someone from the timber industry, while the FBI had such a good response time because they were surveilling the victims? Or maybe the FBI was happy to ignore the fact that some timber industry goon was bombing an official enemy? (It's like the Fibbies who infiltrated the KKK only to participate in its activities.) Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
...From my perspective, the simplest solution is usually the best, and when a woman gets attacked nine times out of ten it's by a man in her life; in this case, the husband. See: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/23/judibari/index_np.html This insupportable theory (of the husband murderer) was promulgated in large part (though not entirely) by Bruce Anderson of the Anderson Valley Advertiser. The Mendocino County Sheriff has investigated the allegations and found them to be crap. Of course, the allegations are very useful to folks who don't want to own up to the horrendous thought that the primary law enforcement agency in the country might not be doing its job and might be part of the problem and who shy away from annoying the FBI. Anderson describes himself, by the way, as a friend of Judi Bari's. But she didn't see it that way at all Judi Bari's work was very threatening to the timber industry -- and successful. Large sections of the Headwaters Forest, the last of the remaining 3 percent of the old growth giants on this planet, were set aside in an agreement with the federal government. Ther was more than one tree saved. Judi also gave voice to the necessity of linking the environmental movement to the plight of timber workers. In fact, that was her greatest threat to the financial wizard Charles Hurwitz, who bought Pacific Lumber, the owner of the Headwaters Forest (some of those trees were youngsters when Antony kissed Cleopatra) with funds he absconded with from his failed Texas Savings and Loan. He needed to cut the forest to pay his debt. Judi was in the wsay. The Bari vs. FBI case is, to me, the signature case of the people's right to work on its own behalf without interference from -- but with the protection of -- its government. That is what is meant by the words in order to promote the general welfareand secure the blessings in the preamble to the document that created our government. Dan Scanlan Grass Valley CA
Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
--- Dan Scanlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...From my perspective, the simplest solution is usually the best, and when a woman gets attacked nine times out of ten it's by a man in her life; in this case, the husband. See: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/23/judibari/index_np.html This insupportable theory (of the husband murderer) was promulgated in large part (though not entirely) by Bruce Anderson of the Anderson Valley Advertiser. The Mendocino County Sheriff has investigated the allegations and found them to be crap. Of course, the allegations are very useful to folks who don't want to own up to the horrendous thought that the primary law enforcement agency in the country might not be doing its job and might be part of the problem and who shy away from annoying the FBI. Anderson describes himself, by the way, as a friend of Judi Bari's. But she didn't see it that way at all Yes, Anderson and others. And it's very supportable. Sweeney has lots of bombing in his past, including an explosion at the Santa Rosa airport, and was apparently close to people who blew up a BofA. There are other circumstantial evidence that raise large questions. (Sweeny could lay the whole thing to rest by submitting to a DNA test. Of course that's a huge intrusion on his rights, but Cherney and others seem not so concerned about such rights for others, as they secretly grabbed DNA samples of others-- Sutley-- they suspect.) When I have time I'll hunt up a web link to all this for anyone who's interested. Judi Bari's work was very threatening to the timber industry -- and successful. Large sections of the Headwaters Forest, the last of the remaining 3 percent of the old growth giants on this planet, were set aside in an agreement with the federal government. Ther was more than one tree saved. Judi also gave voice to the necessity of linking the environmental movement to the plight of timber workers. In fact, that was her greatest threat to the financial wizard Charles Hurwitz, who bought Pacific Lumber, the owner of the Headwaters Forest (some of those trees were youngsters when Antony kissed Cleopatra) with funds he absconded with from his failed Texas Savings and Loan. He needed to cut the forest to pay his debt. Judi was in the wsay. I'm not sure that Bari herself can be faulted on this, because she was first very sick and then dead when the whole deal went down, but the EarthFirsters basically turned the Headwaters matter over to the Democratic Party and none other than Diane Feinstein to negotiate, with predictable resuts: Hurwitz, who swindled billions in the SL thefts, was paid full market value for the trees, and yet still a giant hole was left in the forest, which is now being logged, I understand. Maybe a more radical approach would have failed, I don't know, but shouldn't we at least raise the issue? The Bari vs. FBI case is, to me, the signature case of the people's right to work on its own behalf without interference from -- but with the protection of -- its government. That is what is meant by the words in order to promote the general welfareand secure the blessings in the preamble to the document that created our government. I agree with you. I also think the verdict was the correct one, and I hope it stands. But I don't think it's the whole story. tim Dan Scanlan Grass Valley CA = Check out the Chico Examiner listserves at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChicoLeft Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $40 annually or $25 for six months. Mail cash or check payabe to Tim Bousquet to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
That was my intuition. On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:50:41AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: Michael Perelman writes: Tim gives a very hard edge to a serious controversy. I was interviewed by a woman writing a book about the role of the hubby-bomber. He makes it sound as if those who doubt his guilt think that the FBI planted the bomb. I doubt that many people believe that. The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away. couldn't the bombing have been by someone from the timber industry, while the FBI had such a good response time because they were surveilling the victims? Or maybe the FBI was happy to ignore the fact that some timber industry goon was bombing an official enemy? (It's like the Fibbies who infiltrated the KKK only to participate in its activities.) Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
I think that it was 5 minutes or so. On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 01:47:08PM -0400, Max Sawicky wrote: How long was 'right away'? suspiciously, max Tim gives a very hard edge to a serious controversy. I was interviewed by a woman writing a book about the role of the hubby-bomber. He makes it sound as if those who doubt his guilt think that the FBI planted the bomb. I doubt that many people believe that. The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Judi Bari Wins!
I guess they could have been following them. If not, it strikes me as pretty good evidence. mbs I think that it was 5 minutes or so. On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 01:47:08PM -0400, Max Sawicky wrote: How long was 'right away'? suspiciously, max The only evidence against the FBI is that they were on the site right away.
