Re: RE: Re: RE: Keralan growth

[Jim Devine]

I believe it was David who asked:
> >  Is there any better way to judge what people actually
> >value other than to observe migrations?

I answered:
>unfortunately, migrations also reflect the relative ease of border
>crossing, the relative perceived attractiveness of the country moved to,
>along with such matters as U.S. foreign policy. The U.S., for example, has
>a program that actively seeks out Cuban athletes and convinces them to
>defect.

David ripostes:
>Sure, specific migrations are unique and complicated.  But are you taking
>the position that you cannot examine migrations in a macro sense and obtain
>valuable information regarding what people desire and value?

No, I'm not taking that position. Rather, we can't take migrations as the 
_only_ evidence of "what people desire and value." A deeper analysis is 
needed than just looking at the fact of migration. Among other things, 
people have mixed feelings on these matters. A "macro" analysis seems to be 
a superficial analysis, further, because to some extent migrations can be a 
result of panic (the bandwagon effect), which is sometimes encouraged by 
partisan interests.

(One example is when a large number of people fled Vietnam at the end of 
the war and TIME magazine said they were "voting with their feet," arguing 
that this was _prima facie_ evidence that the US war had been just, 
including all the dumping of napalm, etc., on areas that weren't controlled 
by the US or ARVN troops or their allies (the ROK, etc.) which in fact 
contributed to the exile along with all the other factors (including the 
ROK troops). I wonder if their analysis was the same concerning the 
significant percentage of the colonists who fled what's now the U.S. toward 
the end of the Revolutionary War.)

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Re: Re: Re: Keralan growth

[Michael Perelman]

I don't know if 34 percent is too high, but in many rural parts of the
country there are huge numbers of Indian doctors; some Filipinos also.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:52:23PM -0800, Anthony DCosta wrote:
> The outmigration of Malaylis is higher than most other ethnic communities.
> What I am saying that Keralites leave Kerala and work in other parts of
> India more than say migrate abroad.  For example, school teachers, petty
> officers in government/corporations, nurses (also in the US/Middle East),
> etc.  Certainly economic conditions at home (Kerala) has a bearing on
> this, including education.  At some level the causes are the same: more
> education, less opportunities, so outmigrate (destination of your choice).
> 
> Yashwant Sinha, the Indian finance minister said in Davos, in the context
> of global inequality, that 38% of doctors in the US are of Indian orgin
> and 34% of NASA scientists (I can't verify this, but the numbers are
> high).
> 
> As to Doug's point: the degree of frustration correlates with higher
> level of education (a la the UN official).  But such frustration need
> not be expressed by migration by lower income groups since their
> education levels are also lower.  And this is pretty much the case with
> the rest of India, nothing particular about Kerala itself.
> 
> Cheers, Anthony 
> 
> 
>
> Anthony P. D'Costa
> Associate Professor   Ph: (253) 692-4462
> Comparative International Development Fax: (253) 692-5718 
> University of Washington  Box Number: 358436
> 1900 Commerce Street  
> Tacoma, WA 98402, USA
> 
>xxx
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Jim Devine wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:26:12 -0800
> > From: Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [PEN-L:7543] Re: Re: Keralan growth
> > 
> > I wrote:
> > >>also, doesn't per capita GDP growth in essence measure only growth of 
> > >>market-oriented production and would thus miss the growth of goods and 
> > >>services that aren't distributed through markets? Aren't measures of 
> > >>literacy, life expectancy, etc. better measures of what we on pen-l value 
> > >>than is GDP? Isn't that why heterodox economists have developed 
> > >>alternative "progress indicators" to replace GDP as measures of success?
> > 
> > Doug writes:
> > >True, but as a Kerala native who left to work for the UN once told me, if 
> > >you combine high levels of social development with low levels of economic 
> > >development, you get people with high but frustrated expectations, which 
> > >they express by leaving. Something similar happened in Eastern Europe and 
> > >the FSU, too, I'd say.
> > 
> > to quibble, shouldn't we separate "economic development" from "growth of 
> > per capita GDP"? I guess what you're saying is that if development is 
> > serving the collective but doesn't promote individual monetary prosperity 
> > (which is measured by GDP-type measures), that some individuals will be 
> > frustrated and leave. I'd agree that this is a problem, but don't lots of 
> > educated folks leave _all_ parts of India, i.e., including those that 
> > haven't had Kerala-type development? (Some startlingly large percentage of 
> > U.S. medical doctors come from India.) Is there any reason to believe that 
> > people abandon Kerala more than they do other places in India?
> > 
> > inquiring minds want to know,
> > 
> > Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> > 
> > 
> 

-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]