Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy(fwd)

2000-04-10 Thread md7148


true. that is what I "meant"...

Mine

Ted wrote:

I didn't intend to suggest that Mine had used the phrase "bourgeois
thinker".  What I was getting at was the idea that seemed implicit in her
question that Marshall and Keynes could not have radical ideas because
they
were not in some sense or other "radicals".





Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy (fwd)

2000-04-09 Thread phillp2

Mine wrote:
 
However,as you
 know, there are some Marxists in the Marxist tradition who uncritically
 subcribe to the notions of "orthodox" economics and free market
 capitalism. This, I would charecterize as economic determinism, has
 interesting commonalities with liberal economics since it treats 
 capitalism somewhat theologically and mechanistically. The typical "theory
 of stages" argument says that we should let the market forces operate
 untill capitalism unleashes itself. Any intervention in markets is seen as 
 postponing the collapse of capitalism. so as the argument goes, this
 tradition still emphasizes the primacy of economic laws rather than
 revolutionary unity of theory and practice, which is so central to Marx's
 thinking. is such a distortion of Marx unique to economics dicipline in
 general? I have not seen, for example, such a religious reliance on
 markets in other diciplinary discussions on political economy of 
 capitalism
 
The problem is that 'markets' are just one institution in the political 
economic organization of society.  Markets existed in pre-capitalist 
societies, organized exchange occurred amoung aboriginal tribes 
in North America long before contact with Europeans and the 
expansion of merchant capitalism, markets existed in the USSR 
and eastern Europe under central planning, markets were a 
characteristic of medieval Europe, etc. etc.  Polanyi makes this the 
central thesis of _The Great Transformation_.  Prior to industrial 
capitalism, he argues, markets were imbedded in society, meaning 
in part that markets were controlled by society to reflect social 
institutions and values and maintain the social status quo. (hence, 
for instance, the laws on usury, on engrossing, on fair price, etc.)  
In other societies, ultimate control on the distributive inbalances of 
markets were repealed by Jubilees, potlaches, etc.

The great transformation -- the triumph of capitalism -- comes with 
the subjugation of society to "free markets", that is that instead of 
markets being embedded in society and used as an institution to 
facilitate production that reflects prevailing social values, society 
becomes an institution that reflects the values determined by 
markets.  In the ultimate, the market replaces society as in 
Maggie's infamous dictate, "there is no such thing as society, only 
individuals."

The Canadian political economy basically takes of from this point.  
The 'father' of the tradition, Harold Innis, was highly influenced by 
Veblen.  In one of his most interesting articles, he makes the 
statement (this is by memory so is not exact) that, in new 
countries like Canada (he is writing in the 20s), we must discard 
the economic theory of the old countries and develop new 
economic theory appropriate to conditions in Canada.  The theory 
of the old countries (i.e. Britain) are exploitative of the new.

His 'new' theory has become known as the 'staple theory' such that 
he argues that society is shaped by the institutions and economic 
aspects of development of the leading, natural resource, export-
based economic sector.  Markets are one aspect of this, but more 
important, particularly for some of the other major staple 'theorists', 
like Fowke (Rod take note), Creighton, Buckley, and including 
Naylor, was the balance of class power which determined the 
distribution of income and wealth and of the 'spread' and 'backwash' 
effects of economic expansion.

I think the most important aspect of understanding this approach to 
political economy is understanding the nature and location of power 
in society and how this was manifest in the material (economic) 
development of Canada.  In the early part of Canadian history, the 
staple industries that shaped the political and social institutions 
were TRADES (Cod, fur, timber, wheat) which were heavy users of 
_commercial capital_ and hence, power was dominated by 
commercial capital who used this dominance to control political 
institutions and the distribution of political power.  It also 
determined ultimately the political, religious elite.  (See for 
example, Creighton's _The Commercial Empire of the St. 
Lawrence, or Tom Naylor's _History of Canadian Business_.  When 
economic development turned to railroads and the grainhandling 
system and settlement, power gravitated to the hands of financial 
capital (not industrial capital as many Marxists assume) which 
lead to the control of the elite by the bankers, insurance and 
mortgage companies, etc.

Now, the Canadian political economy tradition gradually split into 
two camps, the liberal camp that followed from the economist 
Mackintosh and, as Mine suggests, reflected a very mechanistic, 
non-class based, non-power based analysis -- markets for staples 
as conditioned by policies and institutions reflecting existing 
political alliances and interests (and those inherited from Britain 
and shaped by American influences) determined the course of, and 
distribution 

Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy (fwd)

2000-04-08 Thread md7148



That is not the case in Canada. Here it is more usually associated with
the
left nationalist.


very true point, Rod! I have always beleived that there is something
interesting to look at in canadian leftism, eventhough canada
is one of the core capitalist powers. Once, the left was associated with
"almost" the same meanings in Turkey too. third world nationalist,
anti-imperialist, socialist, progressive, anti-fascist, radically welfare,
avant-garde, bla, bla, bla...we were very much influenced by european type
leftism (certain brands), and the organic ruling classes by french and
german type capitalism. thus, historically speaking,
neo-classsical economy and political liberalism of anglo saxon type are
alien to us. This is changing, however, within the last 30 years or so due
to the incresing US hegemony and market capitalism...though i strongly
reject that it should be a model for us however inevitable it seems in the
first place..


cheers,
Mine


Michael Perelman wrote:

 Usually today people use the term when they are writing are the margins of
 neo-classical economics (that includes Buchanan).

 Barnet Wagman wrote:

  The term 'international political economy' is/was used by international
  political scientists like Susan Strange - their use of the the term is
  almost entirely unrelated to its use by Smith or Marxians or Buchanan
  (in case things weren't confusing enought).
 
  Barnet Wagman
 
  email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 Michael Perelman
 Economics Department
 California State University
 Chico, CA 95929

 Tel. 530-898-5321
 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Rod Hay
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The History of Economic Thought Archive
http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html
Batoche Books
http://Batoche.co-ltd.net/
52 Eby Street South
Kitchener, Ontario
N2G 3L1
Canada




Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy (fwd)

2000-04-08 Thread md7148


In Canada, as Rod indicates, it has taken a very special meaning 
as indicated in this quote from Wally Clement and Glen Williams, 
edicated collection _The New Canadian Political Economy_.

"while political economy is based on a tradition that investigates 
the relationship between economy and politics as they affect the 
social and cultural life of societies, within political economy there 
have been divergent tendencies.  Broadly, the liberal political 
economy tradition has placed determinate weight on the political 
system and markets, while the Marxist tradition grants primacy to 
the economic system and classes.  Such facile statements, 
however, underplay the complexity of positions within each 
tradition.  Political economy at its strongest has focused on 
processes whereby social change is located in the historical 
interaction of the economic, political, cultural, and ideological 
conflict." [1989: 6-7]

Paul, I liked the definition. There is a lot of potentional in the Marxist
tradition to explore the dialectical interaction of economics, politics,
cultural and ideological. I don't know if the authors would agree with me,
but this is what Marx would do as a critical theorist. However,as you
know, there are some Marxists in the Marxist tradition who uncritically
subcribe to the notions of "orthodox" economics and free market
capitalism. This, I would charecterize as economic determinism, has
interesting commonalities with liberal economics since it treats 
capitalism somewhat theologically and mechanistically. The typical "theory
of stages" argument says that we should let the market forces operate
untill capitalism unleashes itself. Any intervention in markets is seen as 
postponing the collapse of capitalism. so as the argument goes, this
tradition still emphasizes the primacy of economic laws rather than
revolutionary unity of theory and practice, which is so central to Marx's
thinking. is such a distortion of Marx unique to economics dicipline in
general? I have not seen, for example, such a religious reliance on
markets in other diciplinary discussions on political economy of 
capitalism

Mine

Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba