Re: Query

[Jim Devine]

At 06:27 PM 05/05/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Re balance of payments etc. In the '60s and '70s, there
>would always be a distinction made between balance of
>trade (which was positive for U.S.) and balance of payments
>(which was negative). Is that distinction no longer of
>any importance? And was it ever?

Back in the 1960s, the balance of payments (B/P) was important and mostly a 
deficit for the US. Nowadays, it's unimportant. The change is due to the 
shift from a fixed-exchange rate system to a system in which exchange rates 
vary over time, toward B/P equilibrium.  However, exchange rate 
fluctuations still represent a problem.

Of many different presentations, the basic equation (for the US) can be 
stated as:

surplus on the current account + private surplus on the capital account = 
official B/P deficit
(where a surplus refers  to funds flowing into the US)

where the surplus on the current account includes not only the balance of 
trade surplus on goods & services (B/T) but also net inflow of property 
income and unilateral transfers. All of this is stated in surplus terms to 
simplify. A trade deficit is simply a negative surplus.

Back in the 1960s, the US mostly had a B/T deficit (and a deficit on 
transfers), but a surplus on the current account because of earnings from 
overseas investment. It had a deficit on the capital account as businesses 
internationalized and banks lent to the world. (War spending to keep 
Vietnam under the US thumb showed up as a deficit on the current account.) 
Adding all this up, the US usually had a B/P deficit. That meant that in 
order to keep the dollar at par with gold and with other currencies, the 
Fed had to use up foreign exchange reserves, including gold. The old 
Bretton Woods system required that the US do so, to keep the dollar at 
par.  Eventually, this B/P deficit situation became unbearable, so that 
Nixon ended the fixed exchange rate system.

By the late 1970s, we see a roughly floating exchange rate system. The Fed 
sometimes buys dollars with foreign exchange reserves (so that the US has a 
B/P deficit) to keep the dollar up, but it sometimes buys foreign exchange 
reserves with dollars (so that the US has a B/P surplus) to keep the dollar 
down. Over a year or so, it's all in balance, since the Fed doesn't fight 
what it sees as the general drift of supply & demand.

However, this balance doesn't mean that there are no problems. By the late 
1990s, we see a very large B/T deficit (along with a transfer deficit). The 
US is now a net debtor nation, so that the balance on property income is a 
deficit. So the US has a large deficit on the current account. On the 
current account, the US is sending out more dollars than it's earning. 
Since the B/P roughly equals zero, that means that money must flow into the 
US to allow such spendthrift behavior.(That's a capital account surplus.) 
The rest of the world is lending money to the US or buying up US assets, so 
that the US net worth relative to the rest of the world is falling. Another 
day older and deeper in debt...

The flip-side of all this is that the high demand for US assets has meant 
that the US dollar is quite high in value, hurting US exports and 
encouraging US imports.

Most countries can't get away with such behavior. However, the US dollar is 
the de facto world currency, so that so far the rest of the world has been 
willing to accept the US splurging. But it's likely that the dollar will 
fall in value (and the Euro will rise) some time in the near future... If 
the fall is sudden, it represents an inflationary shock to the US economy, 
encouraging either renewed inflation (which has been suppressed by the high 
dollar) or recession (if the Fed prevents inflation). The effects will be 
milder if the fall in the dollar is gradual.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine

Re: Query

[Stephen E Philion]

I recall that Alex Cockburn wrote a number of very critical articles about
the co. in the late 80's or early 90's, in his *Beat the Devil* column.

Steve

Stephen Philion
Lecturer/PhD Candidate
Department of Sociology
2424 Maile Way
Social Sciences Bldg. # 247
Honolulu, HI 96822


On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Carrol Cox wrote:

> I vaguely remember some discussion (I think negative) of The Body Shop
> on this or some other list. The company has or aspires to have a
> progressive reputation. Does anyone have any information.
> 
> Carrol
> 
> 

Re: Query

[Louis Proyect]

>I vaguely remember some discussion (I think negative) of The Body Shop
>on this or some other list. The company has or aspires to have a
>progressive reputation. Does anyone have any information.
>
>Carrol

The New York Times September 2, 1994, Friday, Late Edition - Final 

Body Shop's Green Image Is Attacked 

By RICHARD W. STEVENSON,   Special to The New York Times  

DATELINE: LONDON, Sept. 1 

The Body Shop International P.L.C., the retail cosmetics chain that has
expanded rapidly from Britain into American malls, has carefully crafted
its image by pledging sensitivity to the environment, promising not to test
its products on animals and seeking to be a progressive force in the
communities where it operates. 

The success of the Body Shop, its 1993 annual report intoned, "proves that
profits and principles can go hand in hand and that business can be a force
for social change." 

Now the company is under attack by an American journalist, who in an
article published today by the Minneapolis-based journal Business Ethics,
takes issue with the Body Shop's contention that the company's walk matches
its talk. Formaldehyde Is Cited 

The journalist, Jon Entine, a former ABC News producer who spent much of
the last year working on the article, said the company's charitable
contributions, environmental standards, efforts to buy materials from
developing nations and use of "natural" ingredients in the company's
products all failed to live up to the Body Shop's stated goals. 

Some of the company's products use "outdated, off-the-shelf product
formulas filled with unrenewable petrochemicals," Mr. Entine wrote. The
Body Shop, he said, has had quality- control problems that on one occasion
led to its selling products containing formaldehyde. And despite generating
considerable publicity about its efforts to develop suppliers among native
people in developing countries, only a tiny fraction of the company's
purchases actually come through its "Trade Not Aid" program, Mr. Entine
reported. 

Mr. Entine also wrote about the disillusionment among some of the company's
franchisees, some of whom are cooperating with a Federal Trade Commission
investigation into the company's franchise practices in the United States. 

The company, in a 32-page rebuttal that was distributed before Mr. Entine's
article was published, acknowledged that there was an F.T.C. investigation.
But the company dismissed it as a routine and groudless response to a
complaint by a single franchisee. 

And the company also said that Mr. Entine's criticisms of its purchasing
policies were unjustified. "His numbers are wrong, but more importantly his
percentages are beside the point," the company said, adding that it had a
deep and growing commitment to developing third world suppliers. Today the
company dismissed the article as "recycled rubbish." 

Nevertheless, the publicity over the article has already proven costly to
the Body Shop, both in public relations terms and in its standing with
investors. 

The dispute, analysts and investors said, may also prove to be a cautionary
tale for companies that project a righteous image. Increasingly, they said,
journalists, regulatory authorities and so-called socially responsible
investment funds are peeling back corporate facades to see whether their
operations justify their claims to "green" or socially englightened
business practices. 

Although it has bounced back somewhat in the last two days, the Body Shop's
stock price has taken a beating over the last several weeks, dropping as
much as 15 percent as rumors about the article spread. Investors had to
ponder both whether something is fundamentally amiss and whether the
company was at risk of losing business. The stock closed today in London at
224 pence, or about $3.45, up 8 pence, or a little over 12 cents. The stock
had been as high as 264 pence earlier this year. 

One investment fund that sold the stock last month was Franklin Research
and Development of Boston. Franklin sold its 50,000-share holding and
recommended to its clients that they do the same. 

Joan Bavaria, Franklin's president, said the decision was motivated partly
by concerns that sales growth was slowing at the Body Shop. "We felt it was
a fully valued stock with some questions about its incremental growth
rate," Ms. Bavaria said. 

But she said Franklin, which invests on behalf of clients who are concerned
about companies' social responsibility, was also aware of the gist of Mr.
Entine's article, and felt that its publication would probably send the
stock down. 

Ms. Bavaria said Franklin had made no judgment about the article's
accuracy. But she said that because of Mr. Entine's conclusions, Franklin
had decided to look into the Body Shop's business practices on its own and
would publish its findings next week in its newsletter. Franklin has not
yet reached a conclusion about whether the Body Shop lives up to its
socially responsible billing, she said. 

The Body Shop was foun

Re: query

[Doug Henwood]

Devine, James wrote:

>where can I get a time-series/historical graph showing the ratio of U.S.
>external debt to GDP during the last few decades?

Flow of funds, credit market debt or rest-of-world tables: 
.

Doug

RE: query

[Max B. Sawicky]

The Dept of Commerce/BEA web site has vastly improved
access to NIPA data.  You could build your own graph
in about two minutes.

Start here:

http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/nipaweb/SelectTable.asp?Selected=Y

mbs


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Devine, James
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:46 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: [PEN-L:22356] query


where can I get a time-series/historical graph showing the ratio of U.S.
external debt to GDP during the last few decades?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[Joel Blau]

Jim:

Try the new CBO study, as analyzed by the Center for Budget and Policy
Priorities:

http://www.epn.org/cgi-bin/rd/epn_letter.pl?id=109

Unless you're an academic superstar (in salary, anyway!), and your wife is
making a pretty high salary, 2% sounds high (roughly 90,000 is the top 20%;
$200,000, is the top 4-5%; and I think I just read that the cutoff for the top
1% is $379,000).

Joel Blau

Jim Devine wrote:

> My wife asked what kind of percentile of the US income distribution we're
> in (since one of her friends said that we were in the top 2 percent, and
> thus major beneficiaries of the Bushwacker's tax cut, which is absurd).
> What's the best source of data for answering this question? what's the best
> source if the question is rephrased to be about the wealth distribution?
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

RE: query

[Max Sawicky]

There's a brand new Congressional Budget Office
report w/tons of stuff on the income part.  It can be
downloaded at www.cbo.gov:

Historical Effective Tax Rates:  1979-1997.

If that's not current enough for you, go to Census
or the EPI web site.

max


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Devine
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:12503] query


My wife asked what kind of percentile of the US income distribution we're
in (since one of her friends said that we were in the top 2 percent, and
thus major beneficiaries of the Bushwacker's tax cut, which is absurd).
What's the best source of data for answering this question? what's the best
source if the question is rephrased to be about the wealth distribution?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[Margaret Coleman]

The best source of income distribution won't be out until the fall of 2002
-- that's the income data from the 2000 census.  However you can get
national, state, and local income estimates at the census web site at www.census.gov. 
The national data is the most reliable.  You can also still get the
income distributions from the 1990 decennial census.  maggie coleman

Jim Devine wrote:
My wife asked what kind of percentile of the US income
distribution we're
in (since one of her friends said that we were in the top 2 percent,
and
thus major beneficiaries of the Bushwacker's tax cut, which is absurd).
What's the best source of data for answering this question? what's
the best
source if the question is rephrased to be about the wealth distribution?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
 

re: Query

[Margaret Coleman]

Does anyone know anything about the side effects of radiation following
cancer surgery -- or know of a good solid place to go to for
information?  My mother keeps getting 2nd and 3rd degree burns recurring
months after the end of radiation and the radiation oncologist has been
less than forth coming.  In fact, he has been a !@#$%^&&*()_.
... and I am not interested in a law suit, I am interested in getting my
mother well again.
maggie coleman

Re: query

[Julio Huato]

Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>In the July-August 1999 MR, a special issue on the "state of the world",
>there are articles by James Petras on Latin America and Stanislav Menshikov
>on Russia that include interesting statistics on the wage share of national
>income and GDP respectively (might be the same thing?). In Latin America,
>the percentages are striking:
>
>WAGES AS A PERCENTAGE SHARE OF NATIONAL INCOME
>
>   19701980198519891992
>Argentina  40.931.531.924.9--
>Chile  47.743.437.819.0--
>Ecuador34.434.823.616.015.8
>Mexico 37.539.031.628.427.3
>Peru   40.032.830.525.516.8
[...]

>I find this breakdown very useful since it helps to provide another
>dimension to the whole question of "rising GDP" at the basis of World Bank
>and HDI statistics. Unfortunately, both sets of statistics seem to derive
>from local sources. Does anybody know of a single source for these kinds of
>statistics on a country-by-country basis? Basically, I am looking for wage
>earners share of GDP or National Income, whichever is more useful (if they
>are not in fact the same thing.)

The figures, as far as Mexico is concerned, are highly disputed. The claim 
is that they are too low to be true.  (They are based on INEGI's raw data.)  
If you're a bit open to what conventional economists do, you may want to 
take a look at the 'adjustments' to the raw data introduced by those who 
have been doing the Solowian 'growth accounting' exercise on Latin America.

For instance, Victor Elias wrote a book in the early 1990's ('Sources of 
Growth: A Study of Seven Latin American Economies') where he adjusted the 
figures up.  I don't remember his reasoning to justify it.  But to learn, in 
general, about the concerns of conventional economists regarding labor-share 
data, look up 'Douglas Collin' (from Williams College) on the net.  He wrote 
a recent paper titled, 'Getting Income Shares Right'.  It must be online or 
you may request it.

I wish I could type here what the official Marxist view on this issue should 
be, but I'll leave that up to you.
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Re: query

[Julio Huato]

Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>Does anybody know of a single source for these kinds of
>statistics on a country-by-country basis? Basically, I am looking for wage
>earners share of GDP or National Income, whichever is more useful (if they
>are not in fact the same thing.)

Yes.  Look them up in the Yearbook of National Accounts Statistics, United 
Nations: New York.  Several issues.
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

RE: query

[Max Sawicky]

yes to both.

Sometimes you see OASDHI, which means Medicare
Part A (Hospital Insurance) is thrown in.

mbs

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Devine
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:15728] query


is the name OASDI used interchangeably with "Social Security" in the US? Do
the initials stand for "Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance"?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[dave dorkin]

Le monde diplomatique's english version (though
monthly) is excellent. The Independant of the UK is
another obvious choice (a bit like the Guardian). 
Morningstar is a socialist daily with little internet
presence from the Uk and is abit doctrinaire.
Red Pepper is a good left monthly publication in the
UK

There are better daily choices in the other European
languages but I assume you want articles for Americans
not capable of reading those articles? There is also
the world press review a monthly with translated
articles from the world press which can be useful. 
Let me know what you find!

Dave

--- Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can someone name some good English-language
> newspapers produced outside the 
> US? (General newspapers, not business ones: for
> example, the Guardian 
> Unlimited is pretty good, in terms of having a
> non-US perspective.)
> 
> I download news story from www.Avantgo.com and I am
> looking for new sources.

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. 
http://im.yahoo.com

Re: query

[Eugene Coyle]

The Irish Times is available daily on the web at www.ireland.com/.  It is in
English with the occasional bit in Gaelic.  It is pretty mainstream but is a
non-US perspective.

Gene Coyle

Jim Devine wrote:

> Can someone name some good English-language newspapers produced outside the
> US? (General newspapers, not business ones: for example, the Guardian
> Unlimited is pretty good, in terms of having a non-US perspective.)
>
> I download news story from www.Avantgo.com and I am looking for new sources.
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[William S. Lear]

On Monday, September 24, 2001 at 13:04:13 (-0700) Jim Devine writes:
>Can someone name some good English-language newspapers produced outside the 
>US? (General newspapers, not business ones: for example, the Guardian 
>Unlimited is pretty good, in terms of having a non-US perspective.)
>
>I download news story from www.Avantgo.com and I am looking for new sources.

As someone pointed out, the Independent 
is quite good, and carries the regular dispatches of the indispensable
Robert Fisk.  See the page 
for some good links to his stories and a fine interview, "The Art of
Journalism: An Interview in the Progressive".


Bill

Re: query

[Andrew Hagen]

Utterly shameless plug: I keep a bunch of news links, including
international ones, on 

http://clam.rutgers.edu/~ahagen/news.html

Andrew Hagen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:04:13 -0700, Jim Devine wrote:

>Can someone name some good English-language newspapers produced outside the 
>US? (General newspapers, not business ones: for example, the Guardian 
>Unlimited is pretty good, in terms of having a non-US perspective.)
>
>I download news story from www.Avantgo.com and I am looking for new sources.
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>

Re: query

[Ian Murray]

For Jim Devine; I tried sending it to him directly 3 times but it was
bouncing. Jim can you let us know if you get this, it's my non-comedic
list [btw I don't read those things--haven't since I was 16, maybe I
should start up again].

- Original Message -
From: "Ian Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jim Devine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: query


> < http://www.euobserver.com >
>
> < http://www.feer.com/ >

> < http://www.economictimes.com/today/pagehome.htm >

> < http://www.atimes.com/index.html >
>
> < http://www.newscientist.com/ >
>
> < http://www.commondreams.org/ >
>
> < http://www.outlookindia.com/ >
>
> < http://www.iht.com/frontpage.html >
>
> < http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/ >
>
> Plus all the usual suspects that we use on the list frequently,
Guardian, FT, NYT etc.

Re: Query

[Jurriaan Bendien]

"...the issue is not more versus less government [or big government versus
small government], but rather to whose interests the government gives
effect. Thus, a movement from more to less stringent requirements for the
emissions of polluting firms is not a move from more to less government
['deregulation'], but a change in the structure of rights from pollutees
to polluters. The big versus small government arguments are rhetorical
devices, persuasive mechanisms reflective of and reinforcing traditional
Western liberal ideology. The terms 'regulation' and deregulation' are
rhetorical reflections of this ideology, since whenever rights are being
changed, one party is being 'regulated' and the other 'deregulated.'
[Steven Medema "Another Look at the Problem of Rent Seeking" JEI vol. xxv
#4, 1050]
- Original Message -
From: "Seth Sandronsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 5:26 PM
Subject: [PEN-L] Query


> Recently, somebody on PEN-L posted a quote from an article on government
> intervention in the JEI.  I can't recall the writer or the poster.
Advance
> thanks for answering my query.
>
> Stumbling toward the light,
> Seth Sandronsky
>
> _
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>

Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

How much space do you have on your hard drive?  Check the Cal. Sec. of
State site.

Also, you forget to mention that Issa, the car alarm candidate, began
stealing cars.

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:56:15AM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
> does anyone know how to get a complete list of the registered and
> announced candidates to replace Gray Davis as CA's guv?
>
> 
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: query

[Dan Scanlan]

does anyone know how to get a complete list of the registered and
announced candidates to replace Gray Davis as CA's guv?
Look on the comics page.

Re: query

[Devine, James]

I looked at the Cal. Sec. of State's site, which only lists the 2002 candidates.

It's useful to know that Gary Coleman (of the TV sit-com Diffrent Strokes) and 
Gallagher (of watermelons) are running, along with Angelyne (who's famous for being 
famous). 


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:03 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] query
> 
> 
> How much space do you have on your hard drive?  Check the Cal. Sec. of
> State site.
> 
> Also, you forget to mention that Issa, the car alarm candidate, began
> stealing cars.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:56:15AM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
> > does anyone know how to get a complete list of the registered and
> > announced candidates to replace Gray Davis as CA's guv?
> >
> > 
> > Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> 
> --
> Michael Perelman
> Economics Department
> California State University
> Chico, CA 95929
> 
> Tel. 530-898-5321
> E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

Re: Query

[Jurriaan Bendien]

Some useful introductions to Marx's economic ideas are:

Ben Fine (1989) "Marx's Capital", Macmillan, 3rd Edition (the briefest)
Duncan Foley (1986) "Understanding Capital: Marx's Economic Theory", Harvard
University Press.

Geoffrey Kay (1979), The Economic Theory of the Working Class,
Macmillan/Palgrave

George Catephores (1989) "An Introduction to Marxist Economics" Macmillan.

Ernest Mandel (1977) "Marxist Economic Theory", Merlin Press/Monthly Review
Press (a long story with historical examples, 2 volumes).

Jurriaan



- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 5:19 AM
Subject: [PEN-L] Query


Can anybody suggest a non-ideological, as well as an ideoligcally Marxist
primary economics text for me?

Benjamin

Re: Query

[Devine, James]

I find Harrison's MARXIAN ECONOMICS FOR SOCIALISTS (Pluto) to be very good in terms of 
a clear presentation. By not hiding political implications, Harrison is in many ways 
less ideological than those who don't deal with those issues.
 
Charlie Andrews' FROM CAPITALISM TO EQUALITY is also very good. I think it can be 
found at www.laborrepublic.org but I couldn't open that website today. 
 
as for mainstream economics, the Goodwin, Nelson, Ackerman, and Weisskopf book 
MICROECONOMICS IN CONTEXT (prentice-hall, preliminary edition).
 
Jim

-Original Message- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Fri 10/31/2003 8:19 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: 
Subject: [PEN-L] Query



Can anybody suggest a non-ideological, as well as an ideoligcally Marxist 
primary economics text for me?

Benjamin

Re: Query

[Devine, James]

It's Houghton-Mifflin (sp?), not prentice-hall. -- Jim
 
i wrote:
as for mainstream economics, the Goodwin, Nelson, Ackerman, and Weisskopf book 
MICROECONOMICS IN CONTEXT (prentice-hall, preliminary edition).

Jim

 

Re: Query

[andie nachgeborenen]

My favorite books on Marxist economics:

1. Paul Sweezy, The Theory of Capitalist Development
-- a wonderfully lucid exposition of Marx's views.

2. Harry Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capitalism.
Still the best account of the exploitation of labor in
capitalism.

3. Ernest Mandel, Marxian Economic Theory, 2 vols.
Rather orthodox but fair and clear, makes serious
efforts to fill in gaps in practical sort of way.

4. Howard & King, The Political Economy of Marx. A
tough-minded, very critical "neo-Ricardan" account
that states (in my view) what is intelligible and
defensible in Marx's theory of political economy
considered from a somewhat formal point of view. NB,
you do NOT need maths to read the book.

5. Robert Brenner, The Brenner Debate: A good
introduction to the first Brenner debate, and
discussions about various  Marxist theories of the
rise of capitalism; see also The Boom and the
Bubble: the US in the World Economy; the basic text in
the _second_ Brenner debater, and the most complete
and successful attempt to articulate a credible
Marxist theory of crisis.

jks



--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I find Harrison's MARXIAN ECONOMICS FOR SOCIALISTS
> (Pluto) to be very good in terms of a clear
> presentation. By not hiding political implications,
> Harrison is in many ways less ideological than those
> who don't deal with those issues.
>
> Charlie Andrews' FROM CAPITALISM TO EQUALITY is also
> very good. I think it can be found at
> www.laborrepublic.org but I couldn't open that
> website today.
>
> as for mainstream economics, the Goodwin, Nelson,
> Ackerman, and Weisskopf book MICROECONOMICS IN
> CONTEXT (prentice-hall, preliminary edition).
>
> Jim
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Sent: Fri 10/31/2003 8:19 PM
>   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Cc:
>   Subject: [PEN-L] Query
>
>
>
>   Can anybody suggest a non-ideological, as well as
> an ideoligcally Marxist primary economics text for
> me?
>
>   Benjamin
>
>
>


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Re: Query

[Mike Ballard]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Can anybody suggest a non-ideological, as well as an
> ideoligcally Marxist primary economics text for me?
>
> Benjamin
**

Hi Benjamin,

Go to the source.  Marx's speech now titled, "Value,
Price and Profit" is my favourite introductory piece.
>From there, go to the first chapter of the firt volume
of CAPITAL and read it very closely.

These essential works are available free at:

http://csf.colorado.edu/psn/marx/Archive/1864-IWMA/1865-VPP/

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/guide.htm

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/index.htm

Class conscious greetings,
Mike B)




=
*
"the Council Republic is not the culmination of everything, and even less does it 
stand for the most perfect form in which humans can live together. However the Council 
Republic is a prerequisite for the reconstruction of culture, because it makes 
possible the liquidation of the state,. It must be the task of the revolutionary of 
today to work for the Council system and the Council Republic". (Der Ziegelbrenner)



http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
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Re: Query

[Eugene Coyle]

I believe Greg Palast did video for the BBC.  His e-mail is 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Gene Coyle

Hari Kumar wrote:
Is anyone aware of documentaries on video or via the net - on the
Venezuela struggles over the last year?
Thanks, Hari Kumar

Re: Query: ":

[ravi]

Carrol Cox wrote:
> soula avramidis wrote:
> 
>>one Iraqi poet, actually the best Arab poet in my 
>>Arab friend's opinion, says
> 
> And then the post continues:
> 
> ":  ns"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
> 
> How did this get into the post? What does it mean, What relation does it
> have to what the Iraqi poet said? What did the Iraqi poet say?
> 
> Confused. :-)
> 

its poetry - you can't explain it. you either get it or you don't. i
found it quite moving, especially the plaintive call "office:office" as
an ending...

--ravi

Re: query

[Charles Brown]

Y2K

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/08/00 06:03PM >>>
what's a good set of three or four initials that I can give a fictional 
corporation (e.g., XTC, InXS, DUI, etc.) that have an alternative meaning? 
(I'm writing an exam.)

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine 

Re: query

[Rob Schaap]

>what's a good set of three or four initials that I can give a fictional 
>corporation (e.g., XTC, InXS, DUI, etc.) that have an alternative meaning? 
>(I'm writing an exam.)

Class Intrerview:

LO, VFK, FUACV? 

S, IMXv N IFNNEK. 

URDOA!  UC, VRS N URD.

FIFNNEK, IFNNED!

FUFNNED, VFNNEM'!

S, URXK.

S, VRDOA2.
 

Re: query

[Timework Web]

Rob Schaap wrote:
  
> Class Intrerview:
>
> LO, VFK, FUACV?
>
> S, IMXv N IFNNEK.
>
> URDOA!  UC, VRS N URD.
> 
> FIFNNEK, IFNNED!
>
> FUFNNED, VFNNEM'!
>
> S, URXK.
>
> S, VRDOA2.

Isn't that a typo in the first line, or did you mean "Intrerview"? The
rest is perfectly clear.

Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
Bowen Island
(604) 947-2213

RE: query

[Lisa & Ian Murray]

D.O.P.E.

Or look at Thomas Pynchon's stuff for inspiration :-) or even William
Burroughs :-) :-)

Ian

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Devine
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 3:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L:5930] query
>
>
> what's a good set of three or four initials that I can give a fictional
> corporation (e.g., XTC, InXS, DUI, etc.) that have an alternative
> meaning?
> (I'm writing an exam.)
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>

Re: query

[Eugene Coyle]

WPA
CCC
NRA
HIV
FBI
OSS
CIA


Jim Devine wrote:

> what's a good set of three or four initials that I can give a fictional
> corporation (e.g., XTC, InXS, DUI, etc.) that have an alternative meaning?
> (I'm writing an exam.)
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Query

[Michael Perelman]

Anthony could try

Murray, Robin. 1977. "Value and Theory of Rent: Part One." Capital and
Class, 3 (Autumn): pp. 100-22.

Louis Proyect wrote:

> Hi Lou.
>
> Would you please post the following.
>
> Thank you for the long excerpt from Mandel on
> agriculture, and rent.
>
> I guess Mandel faithfully reproduces Marx's thoughts
> on the price of land - capitalized future rent.
> However, I would like to find more discussion of the
> question, especially from earlier sources, which I do
> not have available.
>
> Can anyone refer me to other Marxist writers on the
> issue of the price of land? I am especially interested
> in anything Engels, Luxumbourg or preWWI German
> Marxists may have writter on the subject. Also
> Prebeozhensky.
>
> Anthony
>
> Louis Proyect
>
> The Marxism mailing-list: http://www.marxmail.org

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: query

[Forstater, Mathew]

Wallace Peterson and Paul Estenson, _Income, Employment, and Economic Growth_
W.W. Norton.

William Darity, Jr. and James K. Galbraith, Macroeconomics, Houghton Mifflin.

>From: Jim Devine
>Subject: query

>what's the best intermediate Macro text-book, from a left or post >Keynesian
perspective?

Re: query

[Trevor Evans]

Of the intermediate texts I've seen, I thought the best was Peterson and
Estenson, Income, Employment and Economic Growth (brought to my attention by
pen-l)

Trevor Evans.


-Original Message-
From: Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 13 October 2000 23:50
Subject: [PEN-L:3120] query


>what's the best intermediate Macro text-book, from a left or post Keynesian
>perspective?
>
>for PKT, please answer off-list, since currently I'm not receiving PKT
>messages (though I can send).
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>

Re: query

[Bill Burgess]

At 09:59 AM 26/07/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Is anyone aware of any empirical studies on the tendency for the rate of
>profit to equalize across industries over time?
>
>Rudy

This may not be quite your topic but if I remember correctly, in a 1991 
_The Canadian Geographer_ D. Rigby showed that manufacturing profits in 
Canada did not equalize between places, and I think he and M. Webber have 
shown the same for the US in their _The Golden Age Illusion_ . But perhaps 
you are looking for equalization between (not within) sectors.

Bill Burgess

Re: query

[Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky]

En relación a [PEN-L:22198] query, 
el 26 Jul 00, a las 9:59, Rudy Fichtenbaum dijo:

> Is anyone aware of any empirical studies on the tendency for the rate
> of profit to equalize across industries over time?
> 
> Rudy
> 

DUMÉNIL, Gérard; LÉVY, Dominique.  The field of capital mobility and 
the gravitation of profit rates 9USA 1948-1997). Available at 
http://www.cepremap.cnrs.fr/~levy/

The profit rate: where and how much did it fall? Did it recover? 9USA 
1948-1997). Same authors, same website.

Profit rates: Gravitation and trends. Same authors, same website.

Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
NUEVA DIRECCIÓN ELECTRÓNICA DESDE EL 10 DE JULIO DE 2000
NEW E-ADDRESS AS OF JULY 10, 2000
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

Interesting question.  Wouldn't that be very difficult to track over time
now with all the spin offs and strategic combinations?

Rudy Fichtenbaum wrote:

> Can anyone point me in the direction of some data on the growing
> concentration of capital in the U.S.?  I would also like some data on
> the number of mergers.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rudy
>
> --
> Rudy Fichtenbaum
> Professor of Economics & Chief Negotiator AAUP-WSU
> Department of Economics
> Wright State University Voice: 937-775-3085
> 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. FAX: 937-775-3545
> Dayton, OH 45435-0001   email:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: query

[Carrol Cox]

Anthony DCosta wrote:

> yes.

7 kb of text with one new word -- and one couldn't even find the question being 
answered. This
is offensive.

Carrol

Re: query

[Peter Dorman]

Anthony (via Lou),

I wrote a paper on this topic in grad school.  Marx is using an analysis
of rent originally developed by David Ricardo.  The account in DR's
PRINCIPLES OF POLITICAL ECONOMY AND TAXATION is decipherable but not
easy.  Look at one of the secondary sources on "neoricardian economics"
under differential rent.  There you will find two models.  The first,
based on the notion of an "extensive margin", is the most familiar -- it
was most in the minds of Ricardo's readers (including Marx) and is still
the one trotted out in the econ textbooks.  Its main idea is that the
price of "corn" (or whatever) is determined by its cost of production on
the *least* productive plot (marginal cost pricing); every owner of more
productive land gets a greater spread between selling price and cost,
and this is what determines the rent of those parcels of land.  What is
crucial for Marx is that, according to this model, the price of land
(rent) does not enter into the price of commodities using that land
(price is determined on no-rent land), and this means that rents do not
interfere with the labor theory of value.

But Marx was also aware of a second model of rent developed by Ricardo,
the so-called "intensive" margin.  In this second approach, there isn't
enough available land to use the least-cost (least capital- and
labor-using) technique, and so rents arise that equalize
rent+capital+labor costs between more and less land-intensive
techniques.  (The techniques that use more land and less L and K have a
bigger rent component of final cost; the ones that use less land and
more L and K have a smaller rent component.)

This second approach is a real problem for Marx, who recognizes that, in
this case, commodities will have a rent component in their cost of
production, and that the labor theory of value will therefore no longer
hold.  To his credit, the bearded one did not try to finesse the math.
(It can't be finessed, and it expresses in highly simplified form an
important truth about the relationship between capitalist production and
resource constraints, in my opinion.)  Instead, he made a historical
argument that the limitation on the available quantity of land that
underlies the model (unlike the "extensive margin" in which there is
always some lousy, no-rent land to be had) is a product of the ability
of the land-owning class to exercise a monopoly over landed property, so
that people can't access the no-rent land.  He felt that, in the course
of capitalist development, this monopoly would surely be eroded, so that
Ricardo's extensive margin would triumph over the intensive margin, and
the labor theory of value would be vindicated.

It's a complex theoretical and empirical subject, but I think Marx's
analysis is wrong: the extensive margin is a special case; the intensive
margin is more descriptive of the economics of real-world resource
constraints; and history has borne out the continuing relevance of
natural resource scarcity in commodity pricing.  (All of this is
separate from, but obviously related to, the continuing debate over
whether [a] such constraints are playing or will play an increasing
role, and [b] whether the degree of resource scarcity is adequately
reflected in market prices -- two issues that get confused in practice.)

Peter

Louis Proyect wrote:

> Hi Lou!
>
> Please post this.
>
> Looking for help with Vol. 3 of Capital and research
>
> I'm looking for some help.
>
> I am working on a little piece about the primitive
> accumulation of capital, which I will post here when
> it is ready.
>
> However, I keep running into various problems related
> to the theory of value and Marx's theory of ground
> rent.
>
> Can someone explain this things to me in a clear and
> succint way? Or even in an obscure and lenghthy
> manner?
>
> In particular I can not find a discussion by Marx of
> the price of land. Does anyone know where Marx
> addreses this issue. Please refer me to Marx' work on
> the subject - preferably someting I can find on the
> internet.
>
> This issue is important to me, because as far as I can
> tell from my first reading of the section on ground
> rent in Vol. 3 of Capital, Marx implies that the price
> of land is determined by differential rent, i.e. that
> it is not a commodity in the sense of being a product
> of social labor with an exchange value determined by
> the socially necessary labor required to produce it.
>
> If my interpretation is correct, this complicates the
> law of value in several different directions.
>
> Help me if you can 
>
> Anthony
>
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/

Re: query

[Jim Devine]

Anthony writes:

>Looking for help with Vol. 3 of Capital and research
>
>I'm looking for some help.
>
>I am working on a little piece about the primitive accumulation of 
>capital, which I will post here when it is ready.
>
>However, I keep running into various problems related to the theory of 
>value and Marx's theory of ground rent.
>
>Can someone explain this things to me in a clear and succint way? Or even 
>in an obscure and lenghthy manner?

See the attached file. I've inserted a version without notes at the end of 
this this message.

>In particular I can not find a discussion by Marx of the price of land. 
>Does anyone know where Marx addreses this issue. Please refer me to Marx' 
>work on the subject - preferably someting I can find on the internet.

Frankly, I can't remember where Marx discusses this, though someone like 
David Harvey (THE LIMITS TO CAPITAL) would know. My feeling (as explained 
below) is that the price of land is simply set by supply and demand (as 
modified by the existence of monopoly and other "imperfections"). Land 
isn't a newly-produced commodity and so lacks a value. (Labor doesn't 
produce the gifts of nature.) But its owner can claim part of society's 
total money revenue and total surplus-value because it's necessary to the 
production process. The owner can receive a user-fee from anyone who uses 
it (beyond maintenance costs), a fee which reflects both absolute and 
differential rent. (I made up the phrase "user-fee" to avoid calling it 
"rent.") There's also the price of land as  _an asset_, which Marx refers 
to as "capitalized rent." This means that the asset-price of land would be 
"present discounted value" of future user-fees earned now and the future. 
(This means that future user-fees would be treated as less worthy (more 
discounted) than present user-fees are, since the land-owner can put 
present fees into the bank and earn interest.)

>This issue is important to me, because as far as I can tell from my first 
>reading of the section on ground rent in Vol. 3 of Capital, Marx implies 
>that the price of land is determined by differential rent, i.e. that it is 
>not a commodity in the sense of being a product
>of social labor with an exchange value determined by the socially 
>necessary labor required to produce it.

Land isn't a product of social labor, since it's a gift of nature. It thus 
has no value. On the other hand, it has a price, as explained above.

__

Is Marx's "Labor Theory of Value" true? What's LoV Got to Do with It?

by Jim Devine

Brad deLong of U.C.-Berkeley economics writes that: >The LTV ["labor theory 
of value"] is not true: average market prices are not labor values, and the 
deviations of the average prices of particular commodities from their labor 
values are not simple redistributions of "surplus value" from boss to boss…. <

It's hard to say that Marx's "labor theory of value" is "not true" if one 
doesn't understand it, just as it's hard to say that it's "true" if one 
doesn't understand it. In fact, I think there's a lot of questions about 
what "it" is.

In fact, it's unclear what to call "it." The "labor theory of value" is too 
easy to telescope into David Ricardo's "labor theory of price," in which 
amounts of labor that were needed to produce a commodity determines its 
price (98 percent of the time). This in turn gets us into writing complex 
mathematical equations for the determination of prices and endless debates 
about how to mathematically "transform" values into prices, all of the time 
assuming that values and prices are totally independent phenomena, so that 
one (values) can be used to derive the other (prices). On top of that, we 
get into emphasizing market equilibrium conditions (such as the 
equalization of profit rates between industries), even though markets are 
seldom, if ever, in equilibrium. That is, we often see monopolies, profit 
rates that aren't equalized between industries, working conditions and 
wages that aren't equalized, etc.

That road is a dead end, as indicated by the long and generally fruitless 
debate over the so-called "transformation problem." So we need to start 
from scratch. Since Marx himself never used the phrase "labor theory of 
value" except to describe others' theories, I'll use his phrase, "the law 
of value" (LoV) instead.

One thing that should be clear from the start is that the "LoV" does not 
assert is that "average market prices" for each market equal "labor 
values." Quite the contrary: deviations of prices from values are just as 
important as their connection with each other. Marx was quite conscious 
before he started Capital that values and prices deviated from each 
other.  In fact, each commodity has both a value and a price. They should 
be seen as two different characteristics of each commodity. The price 
represents how a commodity is "valued" by individuals in the market. The 
value, on the other hand, represents how that commodity is 

Re: query

[Louis Proyect]

Hi Lou.

Thank you and all of the others who contributed
answers to my questions re Capital Vol 3., ground
rent, and the law of value. However, the answers
brought me back to my starting point.

Can anyone please refer me to something by Marx on the
price of land, and other things which are bought and
sold but are not "commodities" (in the sense of
products of social labor)?

Anthony

Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/

Re: query

[Joel Blau]

Jim:

The BLS replaced the CPI-U with the CPI-X1 in 1983 because the CPI-I included
appreciation of the asset value of a home and therefore confused the investment
and consumption dimensions of homeownership. The CPI-X1 tends to show a lower rate
of inflation.

Joel Blau

Jim Devine wrote:

> does anyone know the specifics of the Bureau of Labor Statistics' CPI-U-X1
> consumer price index? why is it preferred by mainstream macro-econometricians?
>
> thanks ahead of time.
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[Doug Henwood]

Jim Devine wrote:

>does anyone know the specifics of the Bureau of Labor Statistics' 
>CPI-U-X1 consumer price index? why is it preferred by mainstream 
>macro-econometricians?

It's an experimental revision of the old CPI numbers in accordance 
with the change in how housing costs were accounted for starting in 
1983. It lowered reported inflation (which has the benefit of raising 
real incomes and, if it were applied to the poverty line, would lower 
the poverty rate).

The latest back-projected CPI is the CPI-U-RS, which revises all the 
old numbers to account for all the wondrous changes in the CPI over 
the last couple of years. Details at 
.

The Census Bureau has a statement on using both in the latest income 
report .

Doug

Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

Which part of the first half.  1900 to 1939?  1930 to 1945? 1945-1949?

Brad De Long wrote:

> >Brad De Long wrote:
> >
> >>Even after watching 1900 House?
> >
> >Didn't most of the improvement happen in the first half of the
> >century rather than the second?
> >
> >Doug
>
> For the American upper class, maybe. For the American working class
> (and for almost everyone outside the U.S.), certainly not...
>
> Brad DeLong

--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901

Re: Query

[dsquared]

to be honest the only way to get an answer to this sort
of thing is to track down the bloke at the statistics
agency who maintains the series and get him to take you
through it line by line.  Most of them are quite
pleased that somebody took an interest.

dd


On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:07:12 -0500, dmschanoes wrote:








I realize that my submissions generally don't 
measure up to the quality standards of the list and for
that reason deserve to 
be ignored, but perhaps those  in need of a little pro
bono work might 
offer some enlightenment on the following perplexing
matter. 
 
The Economic Research Service of the USDA produces 
an abundance of data on the condition of US
agricultural production.
 
I find particularly interesting that table on 
capital stock 1948-1999 which shows an approximate 50%
increase in capital stock 
for the entire period,  yet a real, and dramatic
decline of some 33% 
between 1983 and 1999.  Now this makes sense to me,
given the 
"overweighted" portion of production value contributed
by farms with sales 
greater than $1,000,000-- the ability of concentrated
capital stock to be 
be smaller in volume, but denser in output and to
 "absorb" greater amounts 
of manufactured and farm based inputs.
 
However, when looking at the DofC BEA NEA tables 
for investment in and net stock valuation of
non-residential, private fixed 
investments for farms, such valuations show no decline
but an increase for the 
1983-1999 period.
 
I'm having some difficulty reconciling the two, or 
even finding the paths of divergence.
 
Has somebody encountered the same issue and perhaps
found an 
explanation?
 
Note to Sabri: The guy who knows what heteroskadastic
(sp?) means 
doesn't understand obfuscation? That's precious.  
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: Query

[Michael Perelman]

I have made the point.  I think lots of people have.  Now you have
students working 20+ hours and trying to get an education.  I see high
numbers dropping out due to stress -- They try to rush through to get it
over with and cannot maintain the pace.  The quality of education suffers
& as our neoclassical friends would say, human capital deteriorates.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:36:07PM -0800, Eugene Coyle wrote:
> A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent:
>
> Do you know anybody critical of  the US system of tuition fees who
> argues from an
> economic point of view: i.e. who refers to higher education as public
> good? We need to be backed up by critics from abroad. Otherwise
> benchmark with the US will lead to adopting your system.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Gene Coyle
>

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Query

[Joel Blau]

I'd try Barbara Miner in Milwaukee. If she doesn't know herself, she will
surely know someone who does.

Joel Blau

Eugene Coyle wrote:

  
   A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent:
  
  
  Do you know
anybody critical of  the US system
of tuition fees who argues from an
 economic point of view: i.e. who refers to higher education as public
 good? We need to be backed up by critics from abroad. Otherwise
 benchmark with the US will lead to adopting your system.
  
   
 Any thoughts?
  
 Gene Coyle
  
  
  
  
  
  

Re: Query

[paul phillips]

Also, didn't someone in Freeman and Card, "Small Differences that Matter"
make the point that the higher tuition in the US relative to in Canada was
one of the factors explaining the greater increase in income differentials
in the US and also a reason for the lower percentage of the young  getting
post-secondary education in the US?

The other large body of evidence comes from the growth literature of the
1960s and 1970s and the social rate of return to education in some cases
as high as 15% (in addition to a private rate of return of around 10% if
my memory serves me correctly) thus making it a very good investment for
government   If the private rate of return is 10%, with a marginal rate of
income tax of 35%, the rate of return to the government on private expenditure
is already 3.5% independent of  sales and indirect taxes or of social return.
 Also, Denison's (or was it Fabricant's) studies showed that productivity
growth largely due to increases in 'human capital' was the major source of
economic growth in the US.  Dorethy Walters studies for the Economic
Council of Canada reported similar results.

Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba

Michael Perelman wrote:

  I have made the point.  I think lots of people have.  Now you have
students working 20+ hours and trying to get an education.  I see high
numbers dropping out due to stress -- They try to rush through to get it
over with and cannot maintain the pace.  The quality of education suffers
& as our neoclassical friends would say, human capital deteriorates.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:36:07PM -0800, Eugene Coyle wrote:
  
  
A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent:

Do you know anybody critical of  the US system of tuition fees who
argues from an
economic point of view: i.e. who refers to higher education as public
good? We need to be backed up by critics from abroad. Otherwise
benchmark with the US will lead to adopting your system.

Any thoughts?

Gene Coyle


  
  
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  

Re: Query

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 4:36 PM >>>
A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent:
Do you know anybody critical of  the US system of tuition fees who
argues from an
economic point of view: i.e. who refers to higher education as public
good? We need to be backed up by critics from abroad. Otherwise
benchmark with the US will lead to adopting your system.
Any thoughts?
Gene Coyle
<>

check out:
http://www.freehighered.org/

Re: Query

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 5:32 PM >>>
Now you have
students working 20+ hours and trying to get an education.  I see high
numbers dropping out due to stress -- They try to rush through to get it
over with and cannot maintain the pace.  The quality of education
suffers
& as our neoclassical friends would say, human capital deteriorates.
Michael Perelman
<>

i inform students who now pay more than 40 cents of every tuition dollar
out of pocket to attend state
universities and community colleges in florida that out of pocket
expense was 15 cents of every dollar when i entered 30 plus years
ago...florida has never been hotbed of either higher ed or public goods
but this makes good private/exclusive - public/inclusive
and shows how situation has become more 'liberal' and less
'democratic'...in addition to increased wage labor that michael p.
mentions above (and hours are way about 20 at community college where i
teach), students pay for their education with loans, loans,
and more loans (government guaranteed scam for lending
industry)...  keep the x in xmas, michael hoover

Re: Query

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/19/03 8:42 AM >>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 5:32 PM >>>
ago...florida has never been hotbed of either higher ed or public goods
but this makes good private/exclusive - public/inclusive
and shows how situation has become more 'liberal' and less
'democratic'... michael hoover


above should have read: good private/exclusive - public/inclusive
example

Re: query

[Jurriaan Bendien]

Das Kapital Vol. 1 came out on 14 September 1867 in an edition of 1,000
copies, priced at 3 Taler and 10 groschen per copy.

J.

Re: Query

[michael]

Carroll's figures seemed off to me also.  AT&T is disappearing quickly.
Here is some unformatted data.  The figures represent data for the years:

  1993
  1994
  1995
  1996





 (approx.)

Management/Professional
   149,515
   145,884
   151,224
   N/A

Occupational
   162,677
   153,195
   148,107
   N/A

Total AT&T Employment
   312,192
   299,079
   299,331
   130,000



Carrol Cox wrote:

> There was an odd little news bit in the business section of the local
> paper. AT&T has frozen the pay for one year of its 43,000 "managers" (my
> scare quotes). It goes on to say that AT&T has about 64,000 "workers."
>
> The numbers seem bizarre. Two managers for every 3 workers?
>
> Carrol

--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901

Re: Query

[joanna bujes]

Not that bizarre. I'm a moron at research, but the very large company I
work for ("Sun is shining...Weather is sweet...Makes me want to
move...") has about seven layers of management on top of the grunts
(me). Lots of managers.
Joanna

Carrol Cox wrote:

There was an odd little news bit in the business section of the local
paper. AT&T has frozen the pay for one year of its 43,000 "managers" (my
scare quotes). It goes on to say that AT&T has about 64,000 "workers."
The numbers seem bizarre. Two managers for every 3 workers?

Carrol

Re: Query

[Jurriaan Bendien]

> >The numbers seem bizarre. Two managers for every 3 workers?

Quite. But many workers with a supervisory role are called "managers", and
they make senior staff with long years of service a "manager" as well even
if they aren't in charge of much, more a question of pay really. In which
case the title of "manager" is more a feel-good concept or an
acknowledgement of hierarchy than describing a real job functionality.

J.

Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen?

On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought
> maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name
> of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early
> 1950s presidential primaries and was pretty successful in the primaries
> but lost -- and then, because seemingly because the glory and attention
> of the whole process had turned his head, ran for the Party's nomination
> again again, for more than 2 decades? (The same thing later happened to
> the comedian Pat Paulsen. Something like that may have happened to
> Howard Dean.)
>
> 
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu

Re: query

[Max B. Sawicky]

he was a Republican.

-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael
Perelman
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: query


could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen?

On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought
> maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name
> of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early
> 1950s presidential primaries and was pretty successful in the primaries
> but lost -- and then, because seemingly because the glory and attention
> of the whole process had turned his head, ran for the Party's nomination
> again again, for more than 2 decades? (The same thing later happened to
> the comedian Pat Paulsen. Something like that may have happened to
> Howard Dean.)
>
> 
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu

Re: query

[Eugene Coyle]

Jerry Brown?  Oh, no, that was later.

Devine, James wrote:

I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought
maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name
of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early
1950s presidential primaries and was pretty successful in the primaries
but lost -- and then, because seemingly because the glory and attention
of the whole process had turned his head, ran for the Party's nomination
again again, for more than 2 decades? (The same thing later happened to
the comedian Pat Paulsen. Something like that may have happened to
Howard Dean.)

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query

[Devine, James]

that's him! by today's standards, he was a liberal Democrat! 


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:11 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] query
> 
> 
> could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen?
> 
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> > I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought
> > maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What 
> is the name
> > of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early
> > 1950s presidential primaries and was pretty successful in 
> the primaries
> > but lost -- and then, because seemingly because the glory 
> and attention
> > of the whole process had turned his head, ran for the 
> Party's nomination
> > again again, for more than 2 decades? (The same thing later 
> happened to
> > the comedian Pat Paulsen. Something like that may have happened to
> > Howard Dean.)
> >
> > 
> > Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> 
> --
> Michael Perelman
> Economics Department
> California State University
> Chico, CA 95929
> 
> Tel. 530-898-5321
> E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
> 

Re: query

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/04 12:10PM >>>
could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen?

On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
> I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought
> maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the
name
> of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early
> 1950s presidential primaries and was pretty successful in the
primaries
> but lost -- and then, because seemingly because the glory and
attention
> of the whole process had turned his head, ran for the Party's
nomination
> again again, for more than 2 decades?
>Jim Devine
<>

stassen's first run for prez was in 48, he would eventually run 9
times, last 'attempt' was in 88 or 92, he died only a couple of years
ago...michael hoover

Re: Re: Query

[Jim Devine]

At 07:45 PM 05/07/2000 -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
>At 06:27 PM 05/05/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>Re balance of payments etc. In the '60s and '70s, there
>>would always be a distinction made between balance of
>>trade (which was positive for U.S.) and balance of payments
>>(which was negative). Is that distinction no longer of
>>any importance? And was it ever?
>
>Back in the 1960s, the balance of payments (B/P) was important and mostly 
>a deficit for the US. Nowadays, it's unimportant. The change is due to the 
>shift from a fixed-exchange rate system to a system in which exchange 
>rates vary over time, toward B/P equilibrium.  However, exchange rate 
>fluctuations still represent a problem.
>
>Of many different presentations, the basic equation (for the US) can be 
>stated as:
>
>surplus on the current account + private surplus on the capital account = 
>official B/P deficit
>(where a surplus refers  to funds flowing into the US)

where the above should be "official B/P surplus," of course.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine

Re: Re: Query

[Michael Perelman]

Milton Friedman saw the balance of payments deficit early on as an opportunity
to eliminate fixed exchange rates, which he saw as a form of government
control.


Friedman, Milton. 1968. "A Proposal for Resolving thee U.S. Balance of Payments
Problem: Confidential Memorandum to President-elect Richard Nixon." pp.
429-438. in Leo Melamed, ed. 1988. The Merits of Flexible Exchange Rates: An
Anthology (Fairfax, Va.: George Mason University Press).

I owe this reference to Lynn Turgeon.

Jim Devine wrote:

>
> Back in the 1960s, the balance of payments (B/P) was important and mostly a
> deficit for the US. Nowadays, it's unimportant. The change is due to the
> shift from a fixed-exchange rate system to a system in which exchange rates
> vary over time, toward B/P equilibrium.  However, exchange rate
> fluctuations still represent a problem.
>

Friedman, Milton. 1968. "A Proposal for Resolving thee U.S. Balance of Payments
Problem: Confidential Memorandum to President-elect Richard Nixon." pp.
429-438. in Leo Melamed, ed. 1988. The Merits of Flexible Exchange Rates: An
Anthology (Fairfax, Va.: George Mason University Press).
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: query: Putterman

[Justin Schwartz]

Putterman is a good writer on coops and self-managed socialism. --jks

>
>I received an ad today for a book titled DOLLARS & CHANGE: ECONOMICS IN
>CONTEXT, by Louis Putterman (Yale U.P.) It looks okay, because it puts
>economics into an historical context, but YUP wants $5 for an examination
>copy and (in addition to not wanting to pay), I don't have my checkbook
>here. Does anyone know anything about this book or the author?
>
>(if you're on PKT please respond directly to me, since currently I don't
>receive PKT messages.)
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>

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Re: query: Putterman

[Peter Dorman]

Lou Putterman is an excellent guy and a very good economist.  His specialty
is communal and cooperative organization, and he is also involved in a
"values and economics" initiative (with Avner Ben-Ner and others).  He wrote
a comparative systems text many years ago that doesn't have the breadth of
Rosser & Rosser but is still insightful in its own right.  He is perhaps best
known on the left for a piece he wrote ages ago on why capital hires labor.

Peter

Jim Devine wrote:

> I received an ad today for a book titled DOLLARS & CHANGE: ECONOMICS IN
> CONTEXT, by Louis Putterman (Yale U.P.) It looks okay, because it puts
> economics into an historical context, but YUP wants $5 for an examination
> copy and (in addition to not wanting to pay), I don't have my checkbook
> here. Does anyone know anything about this book or the author?
>
> (if you're on PKT please respond directly to me, since currently I don't
> receive PKT messages.)
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Re: Query

[Tim Bousquet]

London GreenPeace has an article entitled "WHAT'S
WRONG WITH THE BODY SHOP?-- a criticism of 'green'
consumerism" on their web site at
http://www.perc.flora.org/buy-nothing/articles/bodyshop1.html

Tim Bousquet

--- Stephen E Philion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recall that Alex Cockburn wrote a number of very
> critical articles about
> the co. in the late 80's or early 90's, in his *Beat
> the Devil* column.
> 
> Steve
> 
> Stephen Philion
> Lecturer/PhD Candidate
> Department of Sociology
> 2424 Maile Way
> Social Sciences Bldg. # 247
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> 
> 
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Carrol Cox wrote:
> 
> > I vaguely remember some discussion (I think
> negative) of The Body Shop
> > on this or some other list. The company has or
> aspires to have a
> > progressive reputation. Does anyone have any
> information.
> > 
> > Carrol
> > 
> > 
> 


=
Subscribe to the Chico Examiner for only $30 annually or $20 for six months. Mail cash 
or check payabe to "Tim Bousquet" to POBox 4627, Chico CA 95927

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Re: query: Texas

[William S. Lear]

On Wednesday, May 9, 2001 at 12:18:33 (-0700) Jim Devine writes:
>does anyone know if Texas is one of those states that must balance its 
>government's budget?

I've answered Jim offline, but yes: Texas Constitution, Article 3,
Section 49-j,
.

The entire Texas Constitution can be found at:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/toc.html


Bill

RE: Re: query

[Devine, James]

I wrote:
> >where can I get a time-series/historical graph showing the 
> ratio of U.S.
> >external debt to GDP during the last few decades?

Doug replies:
> Flow of funds, credit market debt or rest-of-world tables: 
> .

I notice that the data are only available in bunches of a small number of
years. Is there a unified times series somewhere? -- Jim

Re: Re: query

[William S. Lear]

On Thursday, May 31, 2001 at 14:40:37 (+0100) Max Sawicky writes:
>There's a brand new Congressional Budget Office
>report w/tons of stuff on the income part.  It can be
>downloaded at www.cbo.gov:
>
>Historical Effective Tax Rates:  1979-1997.
>
>If that's not current enough for you, go to Census
>or the EPI web site.

I was not able to find anything more fine-grained than the top 5%.  If
you find something that shows better definition, let us know.


Bill

Re: Re: query

[William S. Lear]

On Thursday, May 31, 2001 at 15:13:22 (+0100) Max Sawicky writes:
>Try Appendix G of the CBO report.

Better, thanks.  But where do we see the juicy bits about how the
top 1% is broken down?


Bill

Re: Re: query

[William S. Lear]

On Thursday, May 31, 2001 at 15:13:22 (+0100) Max Sawicky writes:
>Try Appendix G of the CBO report.

One final ignorant question.  When they say "effective income tax
rates", is it correct to assume that "income" does not include capital
gains?  The definition under the heading "The Nature of the Analysis"
(p. xvi) is a bit ambiguous, as it includes "all cash income", and I'm
not sure if cap. gains are "income".  Also (ok two questions), if I'm
very rich and have a very good tax lawyer, I assume that I can shield
portions of my income from being seen as income by the taxman.  How
common is this occurrence?

Note to Jim Devine: see the Cautionary Note at the top of p. xvii
where it says "As a result, it may be difficult for readers to
determine their own placement within the reported distributions".


Bill

Re: Re: query

[William S. Lear]

On Thursday, May 31, 2001 at 15:37:21 (+0100) Max Sawicky writes:
>broken down how?

Er, well, where does a person making $10 million per year fit in?
What is her tax rate?  How does my favorite sports star rate?  Etc.

I'd like the analysis to not stop at edge of the petit bourgeois.


Bill

Re: RE: query

[Ian Murray]

- Original Message -
From: "Max Sawicky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:40 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:12506] RE: query


> There's a brand new Congressional Budget Office
> report w/tons of stuff on the income part.  It can be
> downloaded at www.cbo.gov:
>
> Historical Effective Tax Rates:  1979-1997.
>
> If that's not current enough for you, go to Census
> or the EPI web site.
>
> max
>
==
Somewhere on this thread somebody posted the stats on the income gains
between '79-'97 for the rich and for everyone else. The putz fractal
in my brain hit delete and I can't seem to find it in the archives,
does anyone have it handy?

Ian

Re: Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

These figures should be adjusted to take into account that people are
leaving the countryside -- maybe not so much in Chile -- and going to the
cities, where wages -- except for the informal sector -- should be a
greater part of labor's income.

> Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> >In the July-August 1999 MR, a special issue on the "state of the world",
> >there are articles by James Petras on Latin America and Stanislav Menshikov
> >on Russia that include interesting statistics on the wage share of national
> >income and GDP respectively (might be the same thing?). In Latin America,
> >the percentages are striking:
> >
> >WAGES AS A PERCENTAGE SHARE OF NATIONAL INCOME
> >
> > 19701980198519891992
> >Argentina40.931.531.924.9--
> >Chile47.743.437.819.0--
> >Ecuador  34.434.823.616.015.8
> >Mexico   37.539.031.628.427.3
> >Peru 40.032.830.525.516.8
> [...]
> 

-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Re: query

[Eugene Coyle]

Also, try the Melbourne daily:  WWW.theage.com

Andrew Hagen wrote:

> Utterly shameless plug: I keep a bunch of news links, including
> international ones, on
>
> http://clam.rutgers.edu/~ahagen/news.html
>
> Andrew Hagen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:04:13 -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
>
> >Can someone name some good English-language newspapers produced outside the
> >US? (General newspapers, not business ones: for example, the Guardian
> >Unlimited is pretty good, in terms of having a non-US perspective.)
> >
> >I download news story from www.Avantgo.com and I am looking for new sources.
> >
> >Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> >
> >

Re: Re: query

[Robert Manning]

Dear Jeremiah,

Can you link a summary of Maude Barlow's last two via an Amazon or 
Barnes & Noble posting, at least for this week.

Also, in the "Topics" section, Could you link to the site below with the 
heading: "Media Sources."



>>
>http://clam.rutgers.edu/~ahagen/news.html
>

Thanks.
bob




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RE: Re: query

[Davies, Daniel]

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Devine, James wrote:

> What's a good synonym for autism or dereism? I'm looking for the word
> that means that one believes that something doesn't exist after one
> shuts one's eyes (a belief of many very young children) *or that only
> one's own perceived reality exists.*

Berkeleyian idealism has been caricatured as having this implication.  It's
a pretty nasty thing to do to poor old Berkeley, but if the cause is good,
you could wheel out the old limerick:

There was a young man who said "God, 
I find it exceedingly odd 
That this very tree 
Should continue to be 
When there is no one about in the quad."

dd


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Re: re: Query: ":

[Hari Kumar]

Hey Ravi- You do know what humour is! Gee...Wasn't sure from your prior
note!
H

Re: Re: query

[Rob Schaap]

>Isn't that a typo in the first line, or did you mean "Intrerview"? 

Sorry 'bout that, chief.

>The rest is perfectly clear.

I tend to agree.  Wordy but poignant.

Well, that's my lot, ere the morning's tnmnx.

'Night all,
Rob.

RE: Query onTrade

[Lisa & Ian Murray]

Ali wrote:


> I am presently researching Trade issues. I recall Bill
> Tabb in a monthly review article mentioning that the
> increase in global trade is due to inter-company
> trade. Maybe my memory is not all that clear on that
> but are there data and measurement sources for this.

Lawrence Krause 
is cited in "One World Ready or Not" by William Greider as one of the
leading trade stat. fanatics on the above issue. According to Krause, only
15% of global trade is conducted in "free market" circumstances, 40% is
intrafirm trade. Greider does not really state how much of it is inter-firm
trade. Krause' article is in Journal of Asian Economics volume 3 # 2[1992]


Ian

Re: Query onTrade

[Anthony DCosta]

Reagarding intra-firm trade there is some data put out by UN's World
Investment Report.  This comes out every year, I haven't had a chance to
look at the most recent report (I will soon though, it's used for my
class).  Over-specialization (depending on products and process used) can
lead to the typical problem of declining terms of trade, misallocation of
resources, lock-in effects, that is difficult to diversify out from the 
low-end, and in some high value added activities, the income effect while
favorable is often detrimental to income distribution, since other sectors
are growing much more slowly.  

Cheers, Anthony

Anthony P. D'Costa
Associate Professor Ph: (253) 692-4462
Comparative International Development   Fax: (253) 692-5718 
University of WashingtonBox Number: 358436
1900 Commerce Street
Tacoma, WA 98402, USA
xxx

On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, ALI KADRI wrote:

> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:45:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: ALI KADRI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L:6387] Query onTrade
> 
> I am presently researching Trade issues. I recall Bill
> Tabb in a monthly review article mentioning that the
> increase in global trade is due to inter-company
> trade. Maybe my memory is not all that clear on that
> but are there data and measurement sources for this.
> 
>   Evidently all trade has been inter firm trade, what
> has changed is the fact that much of it is in
> intermediate products- Charles Andrews correctly
> mentioned it. But how can the welfare effect to the
> developing countries be measured, account taken of
> data problems.   I have of course measurement
> problems, the least of which are data sources, double
> counting, nature of production process, income effect
> of trade vs. liberalization effect. There is evidence,
> and that is the major point, of corrosion (supplanting
> national industries and in free capital regimes the
> resource cum capital transfer is a bottomless hole),
> in the national economy resulting from an
> over-emphasis on specialization and comparative
> advantage, can these be gauged in any concrete way. 
> Basically should an increase in exports become
> translated in income growth. There has been cases (
> indeed the majority of cases between 1960 qnd 1980) of
> higher growth in incomes with lower exports some
> twenty years back. 
> Some of the all too well known results are as follows:
> Science and scale based products, e. transistors,
> valves data processors, are high growth export
> products. One can add garments to this as well. 
> The year 1990 represents a break point for most
> products except scale and science based which seem
> grow steadily without a break in the series (maybe
> there is a slight change in the slope after 1996 WTO
> effect), but this is too early to measure.
> the growth rate in the shares of world trade follows
> the descending order science based, scale based,
> specialized supplier, labor intensive resource
> intensive, primary commodities at the bottom.
> I appreciate comments or references on this 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > michael,
> > the reason the japanese spend so much on
> > infrastructural projects, mostly 
> > wasted money, bridges to underpopulated islands and
> > so on is that the 
> > construction industry is a major contributor to the
> > liberal democratic party 
> > (which is not liberal or democratic or really a
> > party but a coalition of the 
> > corrupt in service to the rich and even more
> > powerful.
> > wk tabb
> > 
> 
> 
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> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
> 
> 

Re: query:_economic_clichés

[ALI KADRI]

A private Swiss bank has this logo on its door: "Money
talks but wealth whispers"
--- Keaney Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "The Greenspan put"
> 
> "Market correction" (always without explanation as
> to why "corrections" are
> necessary in an "efficient" market)
> 
> "Efficient market" (always without explanation as to
> how "efficient" markets
> undergo "corrections" from time to time)
> 
> "Free markets and democracy"
> 
> "Enterprise"/"Entrepreneurial spirit"
> 
> "Bourgeois recidivist running-dog capitalist roader"
> (shome mishtake
> shurely?)
> 


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Re: Re: query

[Doug Henwood]

Michael Perelman wrote:

>Interesting question.  Wouldn't that be very difficult to track over time
>now with all the spin offs and strategic combinations?
>
>Rudy Fichtenbaum wrote:
>
>>  Can anyone point me in the direction of some data on the growing
>>  concentration of capital in the U.S.?  I would also like some data on
>  > the number of mergers.

What do you mean by "concentration of capital"? Of ownership? Share 
of product markets? On the latter, see an article in the current 
Harvard Business Review 
, 
which reports no increasing concentration of market share:

>The Dubious Logic of Global Megamergers
>
>by Pankaj Ghemawat and Fariborz Ghadar
>
>The almost universal belief among executives today is that bigger is 
>better: companies are entering into huge, pricey cross-border 
>mergers at an unprecedented rate. Common wisdom is that industries 
>will become more concentrated as they become more global. This idea 
>has persistently dominated business -- from Karl Marx's "one 
>capitalist kills many" theory to the more recent "one, two, or three 
>shall dominate" logic put forth by business practitioners.
>
>In this article, the authors debunk the myth of increased 
>concentration; the perceived links between the globalization of an 
>industry and the concentration of that industry are weak. Empirical 
>research shows that global -- or globalizing -- industries have 
>actually been marked by steady decreases in concentration since 
>World War II. The authors present the biases that managers often 
>have about consolidation and offer alternative strategies to 
>pursuing the big M&A deal. There are better, more profitable ways of 
>dealing with globalization than relentless expansion, they say.
>
>Those strategies include buying up cast-off assets from merging 
>rivals; focusing more on domestic or regional growth rather than on 
>global expansion; taking advantage of merging rivals' weakened 
>market position during integration and launching an aggressive 
>marketing campaign; and building alliances with other companies 
>rather than buying them up.
>
>In an era that is witnessing technological discontinuities, managers 
>shouldn't focus on size as a goal; instead, they should focus on the 
>development of new business models that help them compete.


-- 

Doug Henwood
Left Business Observer
Village Station - PO Box 953
New York NY 10014-0704 USA
+1-212-741-9852 voice  +1-212-807-9152 fax
email: 
web: 

Re: Re: query

[Charles Brown]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/28/00 05:21PM >>>
Michael Perelman wrote:

>Interesting question.  Wouldn't that be very difficult to track over time
>now with all the spin offs and strategic combinations?
>
>Rudy Fichtenbaum wrote:
>
>>  Can anyone point me in the direction of some data on the growing
>>  concentration of capital in the U.S.?  I would also like some data on
>  > the number of mergers.

What do you mean by "concentration of capital"? Of ownership? Share 
of product markets? On the latter, see an article in the current 
Harvard Business Review 
, 
which reports no increasing concentration of market share:

___

CB: No increasing concentration since when ?  1830 ?

Re: Re: query

[Anthony DCosta]

It's even more offensive when one doesn't read one's mail carefully.  I
can't be responsible for that:)



Anthony P. D'Costa
Associate Professor Ph: (253) 692-4462
Comparative International Development   Fax: (253) 692-5718 
University of WashingtonBox Number: 358436
1900 Commerce Street
Tacoma, WA 98402, USA
xxx

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Carrol Cox wrote:

> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:31:38 -0500
> From: Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L:635] Re:  query
> 
> 
> 
> Anthony DCosta wrote:
> 
> > yes.
> 
> 7 kb of text with one new word -- and one couldn't even find the question being 
>answered. This
> is offensive.
> 
> Carrol
> 
> 

Re: Re: query

[Jim Devine]

When I received my message on this subject back from pen-l, I couldn't open 
the attachment. But if you're interested, I've put a copy of the paper at 
http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~JDevine/notes/Law-of-Value.html. The paper will 
be changed over time, in response to criticisms and comments.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Re: query

[Michael Perelman]

Marx's theory of rent is more complicated than Peter or Jim indicate.  The
simplest version may be in Mandel's 2 vol. book on Marxist thought.  Marx uses
Ricardo's differential rent, but he also describes absolute rent
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Re: query

[Jim Devine]

thanks. I like the idea of using a consistently-measured consumer price 
index, which the CPI-U is not. Since I am using more than one measure of 
inflation, I am not upset by the revisions. But this CPI-U-RS only goes 
back to 1967, which makes it sort of useless for my purposes.

At 03:42 PM 6/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim Devine wrote:
>
>>does anyone know the specifics of the Bureau of Labor Statistics' 
>>CPI-U-X1 consumer price index? why is it preferred by mainstream 
>>macro-econometricians?
>
>It's an experimental revision of the old CPI numbers in accordance with 
>the change in how housing costs were accounted for starting in 1983. It 
>lowered reported inflation (which has the benefit of raising real incomes 
>and, if it were applied to the poverty line, would lower the poverty rate).
>
>The latest back-projected CPI is the CPI-U-RS, which revises all the old 
>numbers to account for all the wondrous changes in the CPI over the last 
>couple of years. Details at .
>
>The Census Bureau has a statement on using both in the latest income 
>report .
>
>Doug

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: Re: query

[Jim Devine]

>The latest back-projected CPI is the CPI-U-RS, which revises all the old 
>numbers to account for all the wondrous changes in the CPI over the last 
>couple of years. Details at .

I detect irony in the word "wondrous," indicating that you don't approve of 
the changes. As Dave Richardson pointed out, however,  the lower inflation 
rates that came out of the CPI revision is not all bad. If St. Alan sees a 
smaller dragon, he's less likely to lance the economy to death.

Actually, we have to be conscious of the fact that measures of the average 
consumer price level are always going to be imperfect. This means that a 
different CPI should be used for different purposes. Unfortunately, since 
social security benefits, tax brackets, some government employee wages, and 
the like are indexed following the government's whim, the wrong index may 
be used ...

I think that the CPI is miserable as a measure of the real cost of living 
that people face, since people have to pay all sorts of non-market costs. 
See my article in the recent URPE book that M.E Sharpe published, where I 
develop a first-guess cost-of-living (COL) measure.  An updated version is 
supposed to show up in CHALLENGE this coming September. (This article arose 
from one of my many random thoughts in a pen-l discussion, BTW.)  As Dean 
Baker has pointed out in articles in CHALLENGE and elsewhere, the CPI 
misses the way in which the development of capitalism creates new needs 
(like the Internet), though he doesn't say it exactly that way.

Because the CPI is a poor measure of the cost of living that people face, 
it's not good for calculating "real" wages or standards of living. However, 
it doesn't matter that much if one is interested in relative standards of 
living (the rich vs. the poor). You can just take a ratio of the two 
nominal incomes.

The CPI seems to be a measure of the health of the marketized part of the 
economy, so we can see if the market economy is suffering from inflation or 
not. That kind of thing seems relevant to the Fed's job.

In Marx's terms, my COL measure is part of an effort to measure the 
use-values needed for people to live. (It's a futile effort, however, since 
use-values can't be quantified and thus added up; but it's useful to 
guess.) On the other hand, the CPI in its various incarnations is an effort 
to measure the inflation of the exchange values of commodities (where 
exchange-values are measured in money terms).

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query: Kotlikoff

[Max B. Sawicky]

Larry K is an interestingly perverse case.
He's done a lot of high-powered neo-classical micro re:
public finance, but over the past decade got obsessed with
"generational accounts."  (Other devotees include Alan Auerbach
and David Bradford, neither of whom are crazy.)

He thinks of himself as a Democrat, even a liberal, but his
GA leads to reactionary fiscal policy.

The basic idea I think has some interest -- to consider consumption
patterns by generation.  In practice it comes out as reactioinary
policy.  Dean Baker did a number on him in an EPI report

Robbing the Cradle? : A Critical Assessment of Generational Accounting
Dean Baker

As far as I can tell it's only for sale ($12).  No free downloads.

max



- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 5:24 PM
Subject: query: Kotlikoff


Does anyone on pen-l know anything about Laurence Kotlikoff, who has a
proposal to "reform" Social Security and Medicare? I heard him on the
radio today, pushing his book, _The Coming Generational Storm: What You
Need to Know about America's Economic Future_ (written with Scott
Burns). What are his proposals? what are the main (logical, empirical,
methodological) problems with them? Max?

from Amazon.com:

Book Info
Text takes readers on a guided tour of our generational imbalance and
the coming demographic/fiscal collision. Discusses the baby boomers and
their long retirement years, the increased taxes paid by the next
generation, and the under-reported national debt. DLC: United
States--Population--Economic aspects.

Book Description
In 2030, as 77 million baby boomers hobble into old age, walkers will
outnumber strollers; there will be twice as many retirees as there are
today but only 18 percent more workers. How will America handle this
demographic overload? How will Social Security and Medicare function
with fewer working taxpayers to support these programs? According to
Laurence Kotlikoff and Scott Burns, if our government continues on the
course it has set, we'll see skyrocketing tax rates, drastically lower
retirement and health benefits, high inflation, a rapidly depreciating
dollar, unemployment, and political instability. The government has lost
its compass, say Kotlikoff and Burns, and the current administration is
heading straight into the coming generational storm. But don't panic. To
solve a problem you must first understand it. Kotlikoff and Burns take
us on a guided tour of our generational imbalance, first introducing us
to the baby boomers-- their long retirement years and "the protracted
delay in their departure to the next world." Then there's the "fiscal
child abuse" that will double the taxes paid by the next generation.
There's also the "deficit delusion" of the under-reported national debt.
And none of this, they say, will be solved by any of the popularly
touted remedies: cutting taxes, technological progress, immigration,
foreign investment, or the elimination of wasteful government spending.
So how can the United States avoid this demographic/fiscal collision?
Kotlikoff and Burns propose bold new policies, including meaningful
reforms of Social Security, and Medicare. Their proposals are simple,
straightforward, and geared to attract support from both political
parties. But just in case politicians won't take the political risk to
chart a new direction, Kotlikoff and Burns also offer a "life jacket"--
guidelines for individuals to protect their financial health and
retirement.


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query on cashews

[Brad De Long]

>I don't think it's worth my time forwarding the articles on 
>Mozambican cashews to Krugman, since he's already staked his 
>reputation on the cashew question in the NY TIMES and is unlikely to 
>back down.
>
>But we have someone who's a pretty orthodox economist on pen-l. 
>Brad, what do you think of the articles...

Let me look...

Not here. I block-deleted a big chunk of unread mail last weekend, 
and it must have been in there...

Could you please send 'em again?

Re: query on cashews

[Patrick Bond]

> From:  Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I don't think it's worth my time forwarding the articles on Mozambican 
> cashews to Krugman, since he's already staked his reputation on the cashew 
> question in the NY TIMES and is unlikely to back down.

Joe Hanlon's the english-language guru on the topic, here in two 
posts dated mid 1997 and mid 1999:

***

CAN MOZAMBIQUE MAKE THE WORLD BANK
PAY FOR ITS MISTAKES?

By Joseph Hanlon, Maputo, Mozambique
Gemini News Service, September 29 1997

Cashew nut processors in Mozambique are demanding $15
million in compensation from the World Bank, in a
ground- breaking attempt to force the World Bank to
pay for its mistakes. The claim follows the release
earlier this month (September) of a World Bank study
which said that a policy the Bank imposed on
Mozambique was totally wrong and should be
"abandoned". 

More than 7000 people have been thrown out of work
this year, and the newly privatised cashew industry
virtually bankrupted. Kekobad Patel, head of the
Mozambican Cashew Industry Association, warns that
even if the policy is now reversed, most of the
factories cannot be reopened without financial help. 

This will be a personal test for James Wolfensohn,
president of the World Bank, and his efforts to make
the bank less macho. The new study was carried out at
his personal request after he visited Mozambique in
February (this year) when he was met by objections to
Bank policy on cashew from government, industry and
trade unions.

NOT JUST A SNACK

To Mozambique, cashew nuts are not just nibbles that
go with beer -- they are the country's second largest
export. Tens of thousands of individual peasants
cultivate cashew trees. But the cashew has a hard and
acidic outer shell which must be hit with a hammer or
cut with a saw to expose the kernel we eat.
Mozambique developed a relatively sophisticated
processing industry employing 9,000 people, mainly
women, to take the kernels from the shells. 

At World Bank insistence, these state-owned factories
were privatised in 1994-5. High bidders at US$ 9
million for the cashew factories were local
businesses and not transnational corporations, as had
been expected by the World Bank and many outside
observers. 

But as soon as the local business people took over,
the World Bank revealed a secret study which claimed
the processing industry was so inefficient that the
country lost money on every nut processed, and that
peasants would earn a higher price for their cashews
if raw nuts were exported. 

The Bank said that raw cashew nuts should be exported
to India, where the kernels are removed from shells
by families working at home in poor conditions. In
particular, the shells contain an acid which damages
the fingers of workers, which is why Mozambique has
always used mechanical processing with large hammers
or saws rather than Indian hand processing.
Furthermore, India subsidises its industry. 

Mozambique had imposed an 20% export tax on
unprocessed cashew nuts to compensate for Indian
subsidies. Government and industry had already agreed
a phased reduction down to 10% over five years, as
the new owners repaired war damage and modernised
their factories. But this was not enough for the
World Bank, which demanded that the tax be removed
over three years and exports of unprocessed nut be
"liberalised". 

There was an outcry from the government, industry and
trade unions, who demanded reconsideration. They
said: 1) the study had been done without talking to
people in the industry, and had fundamental flaws; 2)
globalisation was forcing a lowering of standards of
health and safety at work; 3) it was a myth that
peasants would gain; and 4) buyers of the newly
privatised factories had been cheated because they
had an implicit (and in some cases explicit) promise
that there would be protection until they got the
industry back on its feet.

CONDITIONALITY AND WORLD BANK REFUSAL TO TALK

Despite the strong and detailed case put forward by
the industry, the World Bank refused to discuss the
subject. Instead, the Bank made it a test of
strength. 

The 1995 World Bank "Country Assistance Strategy"
made free export of cashew a "necessary condition" of
its programme to Mozambique -- the only "necessary
condition" linked to such a detailed policy point.
The 1996 joint IMF-World Bank "Policy Framework Paper
for Mozambique" also required the removal of the
cashew export tax. 

According to the World Bank's "World Development
Report 1997", Mozambique is the poorest and most aid
dependent country in the world. This is because
Mozambique was subject to a 12 year war waged by the
old apartheid government in South Africa. This war
killed 1 million people and did an estimated $30
billion in damage, which shattered the economy. 

As a result of this huge destruction, Mozambique is
now receiving more than $500 mn per year in aid. But
all of this aid is "conditional" on Mozambique having
programmes with the IMF and World Bank. With no World
Bank p

Re: query on cashews

[Brad De Long]

I have seen summaries of a Deloitte and Touche report supporting the 
Mozambique cashew-nut producers, described as saying:

The new study was carried out by international consultants Deloitte & 
Touche and >the World Bank's previous policy "should be abandoned" 
[because]:
>
>1) Indian subsidies to its industry "tilt the playing field" and
>make competition unfair.
>
>2) Peasants did not gain anything from liberalised exports;
>extra profits were all earned by "traders" and those few farmers
>who were able to store nuts until the end of the processing season
>
>3) "Improved management practices continue to contribute
>to factory efficiency" in the newly privatised Mozambican factories.
>
>4) Mozambique can earn an extra $130 per tonne by processing
>its own cashew kernels--increasing total earnings from about $750 per
>tonne to $880 per tonne..


My first reaction is that something's wrong with the subsidy 
argument. If India *subsidizes* its cashew nut processing industry 
than Mozambique can capture part of that subsidy by letting Indian 
workers do the processing--the bigger the subsidy, the stronger the 
argument for exporting raw nuts. (Unless, of course, you think there 
is something special and important about the learning-by-doing 
generated in the cashew processing industry, which I don't).

My second reaction is that, as Paul Krugman wrote, any claim out of 
Africa that "peasants did not gain anything from liberalized exports; 
extra profits were all held by the traders" should be viewed with 
great suspicion: it is a remnant of the old-fashioned belief-- 
criticized by Dumont a generation ago--that the countryside is a 
stagnant source of resources to be taxed and exploited to support 
urban development, that it is important to foreclose any options that 
rural producers and marketers have that would increase their 
bargaining power.

Over the past generation such policies have been a disaster for rural 
Africa. Thus anyone making such an argument should have to answer two 
questions: Where does the extraordinary market power held by these 
traders come from? And why weren't they exercising it under the old 
trade regime? To argue that it is good to redistribute wealth from 
rural peasants to urban factory-owners by cutting off their ability 
to export raw nuts is one thing. To argue that cutting off the 
ability to export raw nuts does not harm peasants is something else 
entirely and is hard to credit.

My third reaction is that management consultants--like Deloitte and 
Touche--always claim that the firm they are studying is about to 
experience enormous increases in managerial efficiency, and they are 
almost always wrong.

And my fourth reaction is that Mozambique would probably be better 
off spending the money needed to realize that $130 a ton on schools 
and transportation. Vietnamese and Indian cashew-nut processors are 
willing and able to pay higher prices on the dock at Maputo than are 
domestic producers--that's why the domestic industry is crying for 
protection. And if your domestic industry can't match the costs of 
foreign producers, that's a powerful sign that this is not an 
industry into which a country should be pouring its resources.



Brad DeLong

Re: Re: Re: Query

[Jim Devine]

At 08:33 PM 5/7/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Milton Friedman saw the balance of payments deficit early on as an opportunity
>to eliminate fixed exchange rates, which he saw as a form of government
>control.

should socialists be in favor of fixed exchange rates? under capitalism? 
under socialism?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine

Re: query: marx quote

[Joseph Green]

Michael,
"Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one." 
Marx, Capital, vol. I, Ch. XXXI "Genesis of the Industrial 
Capitalist.", the end of the fifth paragraph.
Joseph Green
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Michael Yates wrote:

> A friend asked me for the source of hte following quote, which he 
>attributes to Marx:

>"Violence is the midwife of history."

>Does anyone on the list know the source?  Thanks in advance.

Re: query: marx quote

[Hinrich Kuhls]

All will be revealed: a possible way of how Joseph Green found his answer
to Mike's query:

> A friend asked me for the source of hte following quote, which he 
>attributes to Marx:
>
>"Violence is the midwife of history."

Searching for *midwife* at http://www.marx.org/Archive/search.htm finds:

The different momenta of primitive accumulation distribute themselves now,
more or less in chronological order, particularly over Spain, Portugal,
Holland, France, and England. In England at the end of the 17th century,
they arrive at a systematical combination, embracing the colonies, the
national debt, the modern mode of taxation, and the protectionist system.
These methods depend in part on brute force, e.g., the colonial system.
But, they all employ the power of the State, the concentrated and organised
force of society, to hasten, hot-house fashion, the process of
transformation of the feudal mode of production into the capitalist mode,
and to shorten the transition. Force is the midwife of every old society
pregnant with a new one. It is itself an economic power.

Source:
http://www.marx.org/Archive/1867-C1/Part8/ch31.htm

which is - as Joseph has already written - in paper: Karl Marx, Capital
vol. I, chapter 31 [p. 703 in the L+W edition]. -

>From the "Marx/Engels Search" page at http://www.marx.org :

"Some days you just can't seem to remember exactly where, among the 40,000
pages of the collected works of Marx and Engels, you read that quote...
Hopefully M/E SEARCH will help narrow the hunt.

This page will search the entire Marx/Engels Internet Library.
As larger works come online, they will also have small search pages made
for them alone -- for instance, Capital will have a search page for the
work alone."

Thanks to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" for this helpful tool.

Hinrich Kuhls

Re: query: "Indian" schools

[James Michael Craven]

> Date sent:  Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:58:53 -0800
> Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From:   James Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:query: "Indian" schools

> I heard a report this morning on (US) NPR about the abuses that many
> Canadian Indians had been subject to in boarding schools sponsored and run
> by the Canadian government and the United Church of Canada. Independent of
> the sexual and physical abuse that was the centerpiece of the story (which
> was about a lawsuit), does anyone know about this program? were Indian
> children forcibly taken from their parents and/or communities? I know they
> were forced to stop speaking their original languages and prevented from
> practicing their cultural rituals. But how were they separated from their
> parents?
> 
> Further, how different is the case of the US, which the NPR story never
> mentioned? The fact that my wife's friends in the Indian community hate the
> idea of "Indian" schools and the fact-based fictional children's movie
> called "The Education of Little Tree" that I saw a while back suggests that
> the similarities between the US and Canadian systems of aggressive
> acculturation are more important than their differences. 
> 
> (I wish I could talk to my wife's friends about this, but she moved on to a
> new job so we see them much more rarely.)
> 
>  
> Jim Devine   [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
> http://clawww.lmu.edu/1997F/ECON/jdevine.html
> "There's nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine... Been here 4
> 1/2 billion years. We've been here, what a 100,000 years, maybe 200,000.
> And we've only engaged in heavy industry a little over 200 years. 200 years
> vs. 4 1/2 billion. And we have the conceit to think that somehow we're a
> threat? The planet isn't going away. We are."
>  -- George Carlin. 
> 
Response: The reasons and means for taking Indian children varied:

1) Some of the children were products of "liasons" between married 
white men and Indian women and the children were wanted in neither 
world so they were farmed out for adoption (the lighter skinned the 
better);

2) Indian parents were promised a future for their children that the 
parents had no hope of providing;

3) Indian families were split apart by early deaths, abandonment etc 
and the children were sent to boarding schools so that the women 
would have some chance of finding another mate;

4) The missionaries tricked Indians into believing that free 
education was being provided and in the course of signing many 
papers, the parents wound up signing away--for adoption--their 
children through tricky language;

5) Children were placed in religious schools with the promise of 
being trained to work for religious orders (like Nuns and Priests);

6) children were actually physically kidnapped with parents being 
told that their children were dead or about to die from serious 
diseases;

7) Tribes were given token sums to identify children without strong 
family support and those children were taken through false promises 
or just taken after being abandoned;

8) Children, often sent to be with relatives in urban areas--away 
from the reservations--were especially vulnerable to being isolated 
and taken without support from the Tribes on the reservations;

9) Many Indian children were born from midwives on the Reservation 
with no birth certificates issued so that true parentage and custody 
could be easily disputed;

10) The Mormons have this thing about Indians as "The lost Tribes of 
Israel" and for theological reasons were heavily involved in taking, 
adopting out and training Indian children;

These are some of the common stories.

   Jim Craven

*---*
* "In the development of productive * 
*  James Craven   forces there comes a stage when   *
*  Dept of Economics  productive forces and means of inter- *  
*  Clark College  course are brought into being which   *
*  1800 E. Mc Loughlin Blvd.  under the existing relations only * 
*  Vancouver, Wa. 98663   cause mischief, and are no longer *
*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  productive but 'destructive' forces.  *  
*  (360) 992-2283 (Office)...individuals must appropriate the   *
*  (360) 992-2863 (Fax)   existing totality of productive forces*
* not only to achieve self-activity,but,*
* also, merely to safeguard their very  *
* existence." (Karl Marx)   *
* MY EMPLOYER HAS NO ASSOCIATION WITH MY PRIVATE/PROTECTED OPINION  * 

Re: query: "Indian" schools

[James Devine]

Jim, are those stories all for the US? or do they apply just as well to
Canada?

Jim Devine   [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
http://clawww.lmu.edu/1997F/ECON/jdevine.html
"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime." -- Aristotle

Re: query: "Indian" schools

[James Michael Craven]

> Date sent:  Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:00:46 -0800
> Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From:   James Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:Re: query: "Indian" schools

> Jim, are those stories all for the US? or do they apply just as well to
> Canada?
> 
> Jim Devine   [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
> http://clawww.lmu.edu/1997F/ECON/jdevine.html
> "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime." -- Aristotle
> 
Jim,

They apply to Canada, the US, Hawaii, South America, New Zealand, 
Australia and even among the Nagas in India; the modus operandi are 
often the same among the missionaries as well as among the non-
Aboriginals in dealing with Aboriginals.

I'll put out more later on the subject.

 take care,
 
 Jim

*---*
* "In the development of productive * 
*  James Craven   forces there comes a stage when   *
*  Dept of Economics  productive forces and means of inter- *  
*  Clark College  course are brought into being which   *
*  1800 E. Mc Loughlin Blvd.  under the existing relations only * 
*  Vancouver, Wa. 98663   cause mischief, and are no longer *
*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  productive but 'destructive' forces.  *  
*  (360) 992-2283 (Office)...individuals must appropriate the   *
*  (360) 992-2863 (Fax)   existing totality of productive forces*
* not only to achieve self-activity,but,*
* also, merely to safeguard their very  *
* existence." (Karl Marx)   *
* MY EMPLOYER HAS NO ASSOCIATION WITH MY PRIVATE/PROTECTED OPINION  *