Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
On 27/05/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab The 1st Extreme Leverage Prize for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers the first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications. Now would that be New Zealand Dollars or...? :-) I think this will certainly encourage activity but I hope it doesn't make things so competitive that us average folks won't have a chance to contribute to the work. I would love to help in whatever small ways I can. Hopefully everyone who wants to will be able to give something to the project. Is it too late to add a requirement that the solution be architected to allow for modular expansion? I mean that it can easily be added to with plug-ins (for example). That way even those who don't work on the core can still add expansion code. Also I'm volunteering now for whatever anyone needs -- I'll waive the money if that's gonna stop you from accepting my help. :) --michael
CGI on 6
Thinking about the wiki on 6 challenge (would that be a pliki? a sixwiki? a plixi? erm-) I think the first hurdle would be getting CGI going on 6. Is this already proven? If so how? I'm investigating this now, but if someone wants to offer a working example... --michael
Re: CGI on 6
* Michael Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 10:10]:
(would that be a pliki? a sixwiki? a plixi? erm-)
Pliki Sixi?
Regards,
--
#Aristotle
*AUTOLOAD=*_;sub _{s/(.*)::(.*)/print$2,(,$\/, )[defined wantarray]/e;$1};
Just-another-Perl-hacker;
Re: Unintended consequences
* Adam Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-27T23:48:43] The questions that are being asked are for the user's benefit. That is NOT being a freeloader. Freeloading is taken something from the user and providing nothing in return. She's providing her free code in return. -- rjbs signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: CGI on 6
Here's my first stab at a perl 6 cgi script. It's unusably slow under
pugs, but that's a problem for the optimisation people :-) not me!
If I'm reinventing the wheel here just tell me, but it's still a
useful learning exercise (I'm embarrassed to tell you how long this
took me to get working!). Wanna add code for the TODO's?
begin code
#!/usr/bin/pugs
say content-type: text/html\n\n;
my %q = ();
my @q = split '', %ENV.{'QUERY_STRING'};
for (@q) {
my ($n, $v) = split '=', $_;
# TODO: deal with URI encoding
# similar to perl5: s/%(..)/pack(c,hex($1))/ge;
#TODO: handle multiple values and same key
%q.{$n} = $v;
}
for (%q.keys) { say $_, = , %q.{$_}, br; }
end code
--michael
RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
From: Michael Mathews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 12:25 AM
[...]
On 27/05/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab The 1st Extreme
Leverage Prize for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers
the
first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications.
[...]
Now would that be New Zealand Dollars or...? :-)
USDs.
(Hmm. Maybe I should have checked exchange rates before answering.)
I think this will certainly encourage activity but I hope it doesn't
make things so competitive that us average folks won't have a chance
to contribute to the work.
If things do turn out to be *that* competitive, then it's likely that Perl 6
is seriously threatened by an imminent stampede of early-adapters, and is
probably inescapably doomed to an awesome future.
I would love to help in whatever small ways
I can. Hopefully everyone who wants to will be able to give something
to the project.
I sort of hope so too, which is partly why I encouraged the use of public
forums to get assistance. However, for some people, competition is -Ofun. If
they prevail in this endeavor, that's also OK with me.
I'm *very* much *more* interested in the *next* wave of collaborative
projects that the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki can more {readily, powerfully}
facilitate. I allude to some of these possibilities in
(www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm).) In case you weren't wondering
about it, Extreme Leverage in the name of the prize reflects this
perspective.
Is it too late to add a requirement that the
solution be architected to allow for modular expansion? I mean that
it can easily be added to with plug-ins (for example). That way even
those who don't work on the core can still add expansion code.
Good ideas, but I'll leave the specifications up to @Larry (or designated
proxies thereof).
Once something useful is running, there should be endless opportunities for
{refactoring, upgrading, generalizing, customizing}. As long as there are no
external Wiki features that somehow preclude a reasonable content-migration
path, then AFAIK, the internals of the first system could be pretty kludgy
without precluding fairly rapid evolution towards increasingly {elegant,
powerful} architectural best practices.
Also I'm volunteering now for whatever anyone needs -- I'll waive the
money if that's gonna stop you from accepting my help. :)
I like that attitude. Coincidentally, I'm waving the money too--as in waving
it goodbye. But if the Perl 6 Users FAQ is even half-right about the future
prospects of Perl 6, then this investment should have a wonderful long-term
ROI. Hopefully some other people will think and do likewise.
Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm
www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)
Re: CGI on 6
* Michael Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 11:40]:
#!/usr/bin/pugs
say content-type: text/html\n\n;
my %q = ();
my @q = split '', %ENV.{'QUERY_STRING'};
for (@q) {
my ($n, $v) = split '=', $_;
# TODO: deal with URI encoding
# similar to perl5: s/%(..)/pack(c,hex($1))/ge;
#TODO: handle multiple values and same key
%q.{$n} = $v;
}
for (%q.keys) { say $_, = , %q.{$_}, br; }
Flying blindly (ie. no Pugs installed):
my @q = split //, %ENVQUERY_STRING
== map { split /=/, $_, 2 }
== map { $_ # TODO: deal with URI encoding };
say Content-type: text/plain\n\n;
for @q - $key, $val { say $key = $val } }
I’d like to know if there’s a way to write `split` as a method
call, though, in which case the explicit `$_` could go away by
merely invoking the `split` method on the topic, something like
this maybe:
map { .split /=/, 2 }
I’d also like to know if there’s a way to use the `-` pointy
with `map` in order to walk lists several elements at a times and
to assign name(s) for the iterator(s) instead of having to use
the topic.
Regards,
--
#Aristotle
*AUTOLOAD=*_;sub _{s/(.*)::(.*)/print$2,(,$\/, )[defined wantarray]/e;$1};
Just-another-Perl-hacker;
RE: CGI on 6
From: Michael Mathews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:38 AM Here's my first stab at a perl 6 cgi script. It's unusably slow under pugs, but that's a problem for the optimisation people :-) not me! If I'm reinventing the wheel here just tell me, Don't know off-hand, but here's some links I know about Haven't checked these out much, but the subdirectories have a little code: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/examples/cgi/ More code here (and in subdirectories): https://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ext/CGI I've not looked much beyond this page, but it looked interesting: http://search.cpan.org/dist/WWW-Kontent/WWW/Kontent.pm BTW, I couldn't find this by doing a (search.cpan) search on Perl 6, which may mean that there is a substantial amount of other interesting Perl 6 stuff that many people are not finding. Looks like this was reserved for your personal use. :-) http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/examples/cookbook/19cgi-programming/ HTH. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)
Re: CGI on 6
sixwiki? a plixi? erm-) I think the first hurdle would be getting CGI going on 6. Is this already proven? If so how? Not first ;-) http://real.perl6.ru/p6/environment/ http://real.perl6.ru/p6/querystring/?one=alphatwo=betathree=gammaemptyfour=delta http://real.perl6.ru/p6/cookie/ (refresh twice) http://real.perl6.ru/p6/queryhash/?one=alphatwo=betathree=gammaemptyfour=delta -- Andrew Shitov __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.shitov.ru
Re: CGI on 6
On 28/05/06, Andrew Shitov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not first ;-) http://real.perl6.ru/p6/environment/ http://real.perl6.ru/p6/querystring/?one=alphatwo=betathree=gammaemptyfour=delta http://real.perl6.ru/p6/cookie/ (refresh twice) http://real.perl6.ru/p6/queryhash/?one=alphatwo=betathree=gammaemptyfour=delta This doesn't appear to deal with URI encoding, or even the s/+/ / task (though I admit, dealing with perl6 and Russian on the same page makes my eyes water). Is there a reason you don't use a regex substitution? For that matter can anyone give a working (under pugs) example of a simple substitution using Perl6 regex, + = for example? --michael
Re: CGI on 6
* Michael Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 16:15]:
For that matter can anyone give a working (under pugs) example
of a simple substitution using Perl6 regex, + = for
example?
I think you’ll end up doing s:p5/// or however exactly it is
spelled where you can just write a Perl 5 regex.
Regards,
--
#Aristotle
*AUTOLOAD=*_;sub _{s/(.*)::(.*)/print$2,(,$\/, )[defined wantarray]/e;$1};
Just-another-Perl-hacker;
Re: CGI on 6
On 28/05/06, A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you'll end up doing s:p5/// or however exactly it is spelled where you can just write a Perl 5 regex. #!/usr/bin/pugs my $v = one+two+three; $v =~ s/+/ /; print $v; prints... Subst What's Subst mean? Do I need to do something special to get the substitute-affected value back? I get the same result with s:p5. Also is the operator ~~ or =~? I've found contradictory references to both in books and online. --michael
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
Conrad Schneiker skribis 2006-05-27 14:34 (-0700): So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab The 1st Extreme Leverage Prize for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers the first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications. Wow! Thanks for doing the world this favour. The specifications for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki would be determined (and posted to perl.perl6.users) by @Larry (*IF* they are willing to handle this). I !~ @Larry, but I have some specs in mind that can perhaps inspire @Larry: - MediaWiki-compatible syntax - Most \W characters can be safely used - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being transformed into links - Revision support with web based diffs and rollback - Implement an svk frontend? - Page hit for a moderately sized page should take no longer than 5 seconds - Modularity is nice, but usability is more important - Current Perl 6 implementations are still rather slow - Use mod_pugs? - Must be packaged for CPAN And some non-spec thoughts: - Think about forward compatibility - Especially when it comes to syntax - Implement a tagging system (better than Categories) - Get someone with good design fu to design the graphical stuff - And use templates - Maybe just use the wikipedia layout - Many Perl people are bad at graphical design, without realising it. This wiki will be the first Perl 6 impression for many. - Make pages cacheable - Prepare for slashdot (not really... :)) - Perl 6 implementations are still slow - Support ; as well as in URIs The (Perl 6)**2 Wiki must be installed and demonstrated on Feather, Juerd's Perl 6 development server (*IF* this is OK with him, and if he can arrange for www.perl6.nl http://www.perl6.nl/ to go to the new Wiki, ...) Feather is of course available for this challenge. Contestants who don't currently have an account, can request one by sending me an email (not via the mailing list, please). Once the wiki is finished (when the $1000 have been awarded), perl6.nl, www.perl6.nl, is available to host the wiki. Cheers, Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html
Re: CGI on 6
Michael Mathews skribis 2006-05-28 15:46 (+0100): $v =~ s/+/ /; That is: $v = (~ s/+/ /); What's Subst mean? That is how Pugs stringifies s/+/ /, as requested with the stringification operator ~ Also is the operator ~~ or =~? I've found contradictory references to both in books and online. It was =~ in Perl 5, but it's ~~ in Perl 6. Please report occurrences of =~ to the respective authors. The negated version is !~, as it was in Perl 5. Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html
Re: CGI on 6
- Original Message From: Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] More code here (and in subdirectories): https://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ext/CGI I'm on a friend's computer so I can't check that, but I seem to recall that that interface was borrowed directly from Perl5's CGI.pm. This might be an opportunity to consider taking care of any nits we might have with that module as the stuff which is in ext/ might get sent to the CPAN. In fact, anyone who has gripes about the interface of various Perl5 modules might want to consider this opportunity ... Looks like this was reserved for your personal use. :-) http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/examples/cookbook/19cgi-programming/ The cookbook project bogged down terribly after some initial great momentum. If anyone wants to write some recipes, I can't speak for Audrey, but she was quite willing to hand out committer bits and I suspect she'd be happy to have more of the cookbook fleshed out. We need it very badly! Cheers, Ovid -- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send follow up questions to the list. Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/
Re: CGI on 6
On 28/05/06, Juerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Mathews skribis 2006-05-28 15:46 (+0100): Also is the operator ~~ or =~? I've found contradictory references to both in books and online. It was =~ in Perl 5, but it's ~~ in Perl 6. Please report occurrences of =~ to the respective authors. Well, one example would be Damian's Exegesis 5 at http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/exe/E05.html which I thought was an authorative word on the subject. Can you give me a link to working examples of regex in pugs please? I did try $foo ~~ s/foo/bar/; of course, but that results in an even more ominous sounding error: *** Cannot parse PGE: foo *** Error: does not exist fooSegmentation fault And, as an incentive, I'm offering 1000 Colombian Pesos to the first person to author a working example of s/+/ /g; in Perl 6*. --michael *offer will not actually be honoured.
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
* Juerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 19:35]: - MediaWiki-compatible syntax I hate the Mediawiki syntax. Can we have something that understands blocks, like Markdown? Just add [[foo]] as intrawiki link syntax. - Most \W characters can be safely used Yeah, that is true for Markdown. - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being transformed into links I find CamelCaseLinking annoying as well. However, I do like how it seems to gently guide people into picking NounsAsPageNames, whereas random contributors tend [[to make really stupid]] choices when given free-form links only. Good tools (page renaming etc.) can help steer against that, but CamelCaseLinking makes it less necessary to take corrective action in the first place. However, it’s also just plain damn ugly. :-/ Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
Beep beep. I, for example, hate the verbosity of html, but i use it nevertheless. The popularity of Wikipedia made Media-Wiki syntax the de-facto standard. It's not perfect, but please don't reinvent the wheel (even though it's a PHP wheel). It's funny - i was the first one who proposed the wiki idea and i didn't think that it will go so far (1000$$$). If you ask me, this wiki should be done ASAP in Media-Wiki. Reusing current Perl wikis (Australian, whatever) is even better. Perl6 currently needs documentation, community and advocacy - not a Yet Another Content Management System written in itself. It is unlikely that it will become Perl6's killer app with such a strong competition. As for CamelCase - it's long dead. Now, writing a Perl6 app to find and exterminate [[random links]] would be neat (although it would probably be a one-liner). On 5/28/06, A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Juerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 19:35]: - MediaWiki-compatible syntax I hate the Mediawiki syntax. Can we have something that understands blocks, like Markdown? Just add [[foo]] as intrawiki link syntax. - Most \W characters can be safely used Yeah, that is true for Markdown. - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being transformed into links I find CamelCaseLinking annoying as well. However, I do like how it seems to gently guide people into picking NounsAsPageNames, whereas random contributors tend [[to make really stupid]] choices when given free-form links only. Good tools (page renaming etc.) can help steer against that, but CamelCaseLinking makes it less necessary to take corrective action in the first place. However, it's also just plain damn ugly. :-/ Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/ -- Amir Elisha Aharoni, http://aharoni.blogspot.com/ We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace. - Thurston Moore __ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
Re: Unintended consequences
On Sunday 28 May 2006 13:48, Michael G Schwern wrote: More importantly, the statistics gathered would help an author to determine who, if anyone, is using their module and on what platforms and guide their development. What versions of Perl does one have to support? What platforms? Do I have to worry about Windows98? VMS? Old Sun boxes? Old versions of Perl? Is anyone using the module at all, should any effort be put into maintaining it? Don't forget the all-important Is there any way these POD tests could possibly fail on another platform? -- c
Re: Unintended consequences
On 5/28/06, Ricardo SIGNES [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Adam Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-27T23:48:43] The questions that are being asked are for the user's benefit. That is NOT being a freeloader. Freeloading is taken something from the user and providing nothing in return. She's providing her free code in return. More importantly, the statistics gathered would help an author to determine who, if anyone, is using their module and on what platforms and guide their development. What versions of Perl does one have to support? What platforms? Do I have to worry about Windows98? VMS? Old Sun boxes? Old versions of Perl? Is anyone using the module at all, should any effort be put into maintaining it?
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
* Amir E. Aharoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 23:00]: The popularity of Wikipedia made Media-Wiki syntax the de-facto standard. It's not perfect, but please don't reinvent the wheel (even though it's a PHP wheel). I plead not guilty. Markdown is nothing new, and it has half a dozen implementations in multiple languages already (the canonical one is written in Perl 5, btw). It is very popular in the weblog world, but because the implementations are not tied to a particular webapp, it gets used in many other contexts as well. I write all of my plaintext files in Markdown; which isn’t saying much, because the syntax very much looks just like email. Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
I'm wondering about some implementation logistics. For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' use perl5:Foo syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki solution using the NEW technology. Therefore, if this Wiki is going to be made sooner rather than later, what are we going to use for a storage engine? No Perl 6 RDBMS interface or implementation is ready yet, nor will it likely be for some time. Such is what larger scale Wikis use. So is this initial Wiki going to use a folder hierarchy of flat files, or a big YAML file, or something? This is fine for an initial version, of course, that is just showing things off, though it may be more difficult to scale. Perhaps v1 of the Wiki will use YAML or flat files, and v2 an RDBMS. Or is something more interesting on the horizon, like perhaps an RDF storage? -- Darren Duncan
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
* Darren Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-28 23:40]: For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' use perl5:Foo syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki solution using the NEW technology. I’d think it a fine technology demonstration to show how you can actually, *in practice*, write an application in a dynamic language that relies on libraries in another dynamic language, particularly when it lets you use a library for something for which none are (yet) available in your native language. “We had a working webapp in Perl 6 before anyone even ported a CGI parameter parser to it!” How’s *that* for R.A.D. No Perl 6 RDBMS interface or implementation is ready yet, nor will it likely be for some time. Use Parrot NCI to wrap SQLite? More cross-language library reuse… :-) I don’t know enough about the state of Pugs and Parrot to know if this is feasible yet, though. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
From: Juerd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:55 AM [...] Conrad Schneiker skribis 2006-05-27 14:34 (-0700): So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab The 1st Extreme Leverage Prize for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers the first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications. Wow! Thanks for doing the world this favour. And thank you for bringing the idea to my attention--repeatedly. It took a while for me to have a revelation of the obvious, and see the many potentially useful side-effects of such a pilot project. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)
Re: CGI on 6
Michael Mathews skribis 2006-05-28 20:32 (+0100): And, as an incentive, I'm offering 1000 Colombian Pesos to the first person to author a working example of s/+/ /g; in Perl 6*. If your PGE support works, s/+/ /g still does not. It's s:g/\+/ /. Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html
Re: CGI on 6
Michael Mathews skribis 2006-05-28 20:32 (+0100): Well, one example would be Damian's Exegesis 5 at http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/exe/E05.html which I thought was an authorative word on the subject. Can you give me a link to working examples of regex in pugs please? The exegeses are not updated to follow the current specifications. They're still useful, so they're kept around, but the syntax is out of date. Synopses are kept up to date. See http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html *** Cannot parse PGE: foo That means: PGE is currently broken, so Perl 6 regexes don't work in Pugs. And, as an incentive, I'm offering 1000 Colombian Pesos to the first person to author a working example of s/+/ /g; in Perl 6*. $foo ~~ s:Perl5:g/\+/ /; Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html
Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks. Actually dokuwiki uses an almost the exact same syntax as mediawiki.. except they invert the headers (== foo == stuff). as for a perl6 wiki.. I agree that there are already many many wiki's outthere the ones I like most noted above (media and doku), since I really like the syntax. but also both of them are written in php and as far as I've seen the code.. not particulary beautiful (ok dokuwiki is plain ugly but functional, mediawiki somewhat hard with major upgrades) and I dislike all perl wiki's I've seen. so IMHO there still is a market. on top of that.. some good clear visible code like with a wiki, would do the perl6 project good for news and momentum (and a php wiki would just look really bad i think). as for specs.. ofcourse I'm no [at]larry, but I'd like to see something that is lightweight and flexible in design. my 2ct, Sebastian S Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/ -- [URL: http://web.expr42.net/] [Unique ID: Sun May 28 23:23:17 CEST 2006 (36)]
RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
-Original Message-
From: Amir E. Aharoni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:54 PM
[...]
It's funny - i was the first one who proposed the wiki idea and i
didn't think that it will go so far (1000$$$). If you ask me, this
wiki should be done ASAP in Media-Wiki. Reusing current Perl wikis
(Australian, whatever) is even better.
I certainly agree. However, someone has to take the initiative to actually
start using (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6), and to post links back here
for others to follow up on. Will that person be you? :-) I'm all for using
that wiki to compile important Perl 6 content now, so that there will be
plenty of good material on hand for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki.
I'm long on enthusiasm, but very low on tuits at the moment (hence the
prize), but if someone ports the contents of
(www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm) to the above wiki, I'll replace the
above page with a Perl 6 Users FAQ has become absorbed by a much better
Perl 6 wiki link.
Perl6 currently needs
documentation, community and advocacy - not a Yet Another Content
Management System written in itself.
I don't see these as mutually exclusive. Especially since other people
clearly regard such a prospective Perl 6 system as a powerful form of
advocacy, as an important piece of documentation for the Perl 6 Cookbook,
and as a community-building venture.
Also, it's really up to others who do the actual work to decide what they
find interesting or important enough to work on, given their interests and
motivation. It's not for me to dictate to others what they should or
shouldn't be doing. Perl 6 development has really taken off over the last
year or so in part because people were encouraged to pursue -Ofun, rather
than being told what they should be doing. Of all the crazy things, whoever
thought that what Perl 6 really needed was a pathetically primitive
prototype in some arcane language like Haskell? :-)
It is unlikely that it will
become Perl6's killer app with such a strong competition.
Near-to-medium term, you're almost certainly correct. The long term is a
different matter. But I think this is a tangential issue.
There are more important {near-to-medium term and non-competitive} roles
(pun intended) that the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki could play. (1) It can serve as a
wide-participation eat your own dog food prototype. (2) As new Perl 6
features become available, refactoring the prototype into a more pluggable
architecture (among other things) could provide many opportunities for
trying out new Perl 6 capabilities (including the use of production Perl 5
modules). (3) As the primary Perl 6 wiki, we have the option of adding
features that might be particularly useful for (say) generating Perl {user,
release, module, distribution, and so on} documentation without going
through the usual {POD editing, svn updating, HTML generating} processes,
resulting in {wider participation and greater productivity}, relative to
existing systems. (4) Eventually, this can serve as the nucleus of a
generalized Wiki-counterpart and analog of {CPAN, Perl Monks sorts of
forums, developer blogs, and so on}. Parts of it might eventually
incrementally morph into the first viable semantic web.
And again, the most important factor for many people is -Ofun. I've even
resigned myself to it. :-)
Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm
www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)
RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
From: Darren Duncan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:38 PM [...] For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' use perl5:Foo syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki solution using the NEW technology. That will be up to @Larry to decide. Non-trivial Perl 6 content seems obviously desirable, but it's not obvious to me what the reasonable criteria for that might be. (That's another reason for deferring specifications to wiser and better-informed people.) Using legacy Perl 5 modules is an important Perl 6 capability for a great many people, and it may actually be a very good thing to show off. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)
P6U FAQ on PerlNet (was Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6)
G'day Conrad, Amir, and P6U, Conrad Schneiker wrote: I certainly agree. However, someone has to take the initiative to actually start using (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6), and to post links back here for others to follow up on. Will that person be you? :-) I'm all for using that wiki to compile important Perl 6 content now, so that there will be plenty of good material on hand for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki. Working on that now. ;) I'm long on enthusiasm, but very low on tuits at the moment (hence the prize), but if someone ports the contents of (www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm) to the above wiki, I'll replace the above page with a Perl 6 Users FAQ has become absorbed by a much better Perl 6 wiki link. Done! See http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_Users_FAQ . It's still a little rough at the moment, I'm working on fixing the remaining bits of poor mark-up, and improving inter and intra-document linkage. However don't let that stop you (or any P6U members) from adjusting the FAQ as required. Am I correct that the P6U FAQ can also be multi-licensed under the CC-Attribution-ShareAlike license, as well as the prevailing P6/Pugs license? Cheerio, Paul -- Paul Fenwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia| Fax: +61 3 9354 2681
outdated/incorrect S12 examples
I discovered in reading Synopsis 12 today that some code examples use out of date syntax, as I understand it: For example, look in the Roles main documentation section. There are many places where the bareword self is used, whereas I believe the current syntax is $?SELF for the same thing, and has been for awhile. For example: self.some_other_method; And: any reference to Cself or the type of the invocant And: Cself!attr() This problem may go beyond Synopsis 12, so I suggest doing a search'n'replace in all the synopsis. Or at least in all of Synopsis 12. I'm fairly sure the self syntax is invalid. Moreover, S12 explicitly says that Perl 6 has no barewords, save package names in specific circumstances. -- Darren Duncan
Re: outdated/incorrect S12 examples
On 5/29/06, Darren Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I discovered in reading Synopsis 12 today that some code examples use out of date syntax, as I understand it: For example, look in the Roles main documentation section. There are many places where the bareword self is used, whereas I believe the current syntax is $?SELF for the same thing, and has been for awhile. Actually, I seem to recall `self` being accepted as the correct form, though I can't remember exactly when that was. I'm fairly sure the self syntax is invalid. It's just a 0-ary sub call, I believe. Moreover, S12 explicitly says that Perl 6 has no barewords, save package names in specific circumstances. I think that just means P6 has no barewords-that-are-interpreted-as-strings. You still need to use bareword syntax to write things like class names and subroutine calls, after you've declared them. Any syntactic bareword without a preceding declaration is assumed to be a list operator that will be declared later. (Syntactic barewords are also legal just before `=`, which autoquotes.) Stuart
Re: outdated/incorrect S12 examples
At 1:45 PM +1000 5/29/06, Stuart Cook wrote: On 5/29/06, Darren Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many places where the bareword self is used, whereas I believe the current syntax is $?SELF for the same thing, and has been for awhile. Actually, I seem to recall `self` being accepted as the correct form, though I can't remember exactly when that was. I know that 'self' was valid syntax a year ago, but afterwards only $?SELF was allowed. Besides, the latter is visually consistent with things like $?CLASS. And the $?SELF form just looks better besides. It stands out more, as it should, because it is special. -- Darren Duncan
