Re: Revised Perl++ Wiki Proposal / $1k bounty
On 20/06/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose to install twiki (http://www.twiki.org/) on Feather. This is a GPL'd Perl-based industrial-strength wiki. This would serve as the general Perl 6 wiki, aka Perl++. The source code would be placed in the Pugs .../other/... subtree for us to incrementally convert parts of it to Perl 6, and to also add/change functionality. A perpetual beta version of this would also be available on Feather. From time to time this beta version would replace the pervious Perl++ wiki code. In the mean time, we would have the initial Perl++ wiki. Before you sent that I registered a project on Source Forge for this, half-thinking I would want to work on it but also open it up to the entire community. Reason being that Source Forge has well-established, robust community project management features already available (I have another project there that's nearing it's 10,000th download). If you want a place to keep/hack-on P6 wiki code I'd propose that http://sourceforge.net/projects/p6wiki be the place. Anyone who wants can have admin/developer permissions -- just ask. Feather would still be required to demo/test/run the latest perpetual beta release. What say you, Conrad? --michael onperl.org
Re: Perl++ Wikicosm (was: OT: wiki engine architecture)
On 11/06/06, Matt Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) I agree that it is both important and pertinent to get the general requirements down for the project, but I do see a need and a benefit to having the architecture forming in the meanwhile. I see how these things can be connected, obviously, but with a fairly flexible architecture it can be easy to expand or change it as needed. If we have the skeletal system in place, we can add the muscle and the skin on as needed. [Read more of my comments below.] Having just been away on yet /another/ training course in Agile methodology, I'd say this is a classic disconnect of concerns. Sounds like Conrad just want something that works, and can be available quickly -- a rather traditional customer point-of-view. Matt, you're talking about implementation details, which is a traditional Developer concern, but not all that important to the Customer. You don't disagree, you just have different roles. The real answer is yes. Do implement it well, but also as quickly as possible. This isn't really a point of disagreement. 3) I'll be honest and say that I'm not a big fan of the 'Wikicosm' part, but the Perl++ part works for me. I particiularly like simple names. Maybe we could go with something distinctive, much like 'Joomla' is or 'Drupal', etc. Something different, and not nearly as explicit. Well, if we can have a blogosphere I suppose we can also have a wikicosm :-) Mainly speaking on point number 2 again, I agree that we need to be discussing and deciding on the minimal features, but this is does not mean that the architecture should be poorly designed. Even with a weakly implemented yet well designed base, it would be easier to take this minimal wiki and upgrade it into something very powerful. I already made this argument in an earlier post, when I suggested a requirement that the accepted solution have a modular architecture (plug-ins, for example). I forget the exact response, but it was something like whatever. Again, I think Conrad is really mainly concerned with something that works, and quick. The rest is just icing -- correct me if I'm wrong here. I guess what my very first recommendation (before even a name) is that we have a flexible, well-designed archiecture, preferrably with an MVC pattern, with RESTful-like (URL) mapping, etc. I believe that this will be integral to the successful adoption in the community because it allows for very expansive modification. Yes. yes, yes, yes... I will be looking over some other features to recommend. Wherein shall we officially submit our recommendations? Here? And is there a specific way to do so? (This is more of a conversation-generating question.) This gets to a point thats been niggling me, which is that because of the prize/grant involved there is automatically an environment created which does not reward general community collaboration. Okay, you're talking about requirements there, and that is a bit different, but if I were the sort who /was/ motivated by money I would likely not be motivated to get less of it by sharing. So a prize would seem to encourage a certain amount of go-it-alone-ed-ness, and also (because of the first done, first won rule) it would also seem to encourage the most minimal feature set possible. Hence there isn't any reward for community discussions of desired features. That's probably an okay thing if the goal is to get something done fast. Perhaps the community will get involved after that, when it comes time to adding-on? Somebody needs to run with this, but it's risky to think that one could start work on a p6 wiki candidate, only to be pipped at the end to some other wiki engine. So then would we carry on and have 2/more on offer, or discard the work, or give the work to the guy who already has a grand in his pocket? Just some random thoughts there, this thread seems to have gone a bit quiet! --michael
Re: OT: wiki engine architecture (was: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6)
On 07/06/06, A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's use Perl 6 Grammars to define syntaxes. We are just about to get this mindblowingly awesome tool for parsing; why insist on tieing our feet together and having to hop around like that? This is the smartest suggestion I've yet seen on the subject, but, not being all *that* familiar with Perl6 Grammars (aren't they something like contextually-smart regexes?), can anyone give an example of Perl 6 code that uses grammars and can express some wiki-formatting? Also, is this thread trying to define the standard for a winning wiki (eg to get the grand you must use perl 6 Grammars) or is this more of a community effort to actually produce a wiki? Not sure where that prize thread ended up. -- Michael
Re: CGI on 6
Whack three! I suddenly remember what it was like to learn Perl the
first time again. Boy do I feel confused. It's starting to work
though. Kinda like the first Perl CGI I wrote about seven years ago.
Probably just as ugly too. Anyone want to join in here, please feel
free!
#!/usr/bin/pugs
print content-type: text/html\n\n;
my %q = ();
my @q = split '', %ENV.{'QUERY_STRING'};
for (@q) {
my ($n, $v) = split '=', $_;
decode($n);
decode($v);
if (none(%q.{$n})) { %q.{$n} = [$v] }
else { %q.{$n}.push($v) }
}
for (%q.keys) { say $_ = ~%q.{$_}.join(', ')~'br' }
sub decode($input is rw) {
$input ~~ s:Perl5:g/\+/ /;
$input ~~ s:Perl5:g/%(..)/{chr(:16[0x$0])}/;
}
--michael
PS Sorry, read the fine print. I'm not Columbian, it was just the
lowest valued denomination I could find. I reckon it comes to about
US$0.41 in total. But, to show what a stand-up guy I am, I will give
you that amount if we ever meet. I'm in London at the moment. Can you
make it?
Re: 3 Good Reasons...
On 26/05/06, A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Michael Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-26 12:45]: In the end it was decided to rewrite that chunk in Perl. I can tell you, there definitely was cursing in the office that day, and I doubt anyone there would see it as a plus to have the ability to mix languages more easily. I just wouldn't put it that way if I were trying to sell Perl6 to a business manager. Using libraries from other languages and writing code in multiple languages are very different things. You will not be able to argue with a straight face that being able to do the former is a downside. Currently, other languages translates to C, so the utility of this is limited; being able to bridge to more languages would be a great boon. I use the expat and libxslt libraries (both in C) regularly via perl, so I guess I must agree that there is a distinction -- thank you for clarifying that. But I can't think of any examples where I was stuck because I couldn't use a library only available in, say Python, or JavaScript in my Perl. But then I'm seeking to learn here so can you give a nice juicy example of a non-C library that would be a big plus to be able to include in Perl? --michael
Re: (Existing) Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6)
Hi Conrad, It's only an issue of coordination and findability. But that question depends on what the intended purpose of the wiki would be. For example there is nothing stopping anyone (including members of this list) from creating and populating pages on www.wikipedia.org about Perl6 and this user group. Then those pages would be available to the wikipedia search engine. --- Insert any other popular wiki there. If, however, it is meant for mailing-list specific issues then only we need to be able to easily find and search it, so there is no issue. And of course with the ominipresence of google, finding and searching is always becoming less of a problem. What would be annoying though is to invest work in a perl 6 wiki that is only one of many perl 6 wikis and with no coordination of efforts between them. (is there an official perl 6 user's wiki or will there be, or is that a different question?) --michael onperl.org On 24/05/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Mathews I for one, think a Perl6-users wiki would be extremely useful, I'm just not sure why a site that distinguishes itself as a portal for the Australian and New Zealand Perl community makes the most sense I was only thinking of the availability of an existing Perl 6 Wiki, not the site as such. (particularly to anyone trying to find the Perl6-users wiki from outside this mailing list). My guess is that that's a pretty much location-independent problem, unless (for examples), (1) you get perl.org to host a Perl 6 users wiki, (2) you get perl.org and allied sites to put a prominent link to it on their main Perl 6 pages, and so on. Okay, New Zealand and Australia have parrots but the connection is a stretch. Isn't Larry and/or Damian from Australia? Maybe that's the connection? The only connection was that it turned up fairly high on the list when I googled for perl6 and wiki. (However: Damian Conway holds a Ph.D. in Computer Science and is an Honorary Associate Professor with the School of Computer Science and Software Engineering at Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.) I'm just askin'... HTH Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam technology.)
Re: (Existing) Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6)
I for one, think a Perl6-users wiki would be extremely useful, I'm just not sure why a site that distinguishes itself as a portal for the Australian and New Zealand Perl community makes the most sense (particularly to anyone trying to find the Perl6-users wiki from outside this mailing list). Okay, New Zealand and Australia have parrots but the connection is a stretch. Isn't Larry and/or Damian from Australia? Maybe that's the connection? I'm just askin'... --michael onperl.org On 23/05/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please see forwarded note below. (( Paul: Didn't see this show up in the archives, so I'm forwarding it on your behalf. Looks like you have to be subscribed to post. Details for doing that are in: http://www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm Also please look at a posted reply: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/25399 Could you switch to an existing Perl 5 based wiki for the time being? )) -- Forwarded message -- From: Paul Fenwick Date: May 23, 2006 1:03 AM [...] G'day Conrad and P6ers, My apology for this being a very brief note. I'm on an interstate training assignment until the end of the week, and I'm scrounging net access where I can. Conrad Schneiker wrote: [snip] Their posted policies, FAQ, and (http://perl.net.au/wiki/PerlNet:About), seem to be very favorably inclined to serving the purposes of recent Perl 6 Wiki proposals made on comp.perl6.lang and comp.perl6.users. (I've cc'd their contact on this note.) As one of the PerlNet admins, I'd be delighted if PerlNet was used to assist in any Perl 6 development, discussions, or other activities. PerlNet exists to provide support for the Perl community, and if there's anything I can do to make it more suitable to help the Perl 6 effort, then I'd be very happy to do my best to make it happen. All the very best, Paul -- Paul Fenwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia| Fax: +61 3 9354 2681
