Re: Dictionaries on the web
I mentioned before that we have a license agreement with our users . Upon to this agreement, we didn't sell anything to our users, instead we got our user to use our package (software with data) in single machine (personally). If you want I can send you our license agreement. > > Buying a > > software means you are getting license to use this software as it is. There > > is no license for presenting this software on the web. > > But we are not talking about software here. Information is different > from software. It really depends on how you define software. Is an MS > Word document software? When you are talking about MS Word document, you mean a document that you wrote before. Is it possible to use MS Word Spell Checker in your website? If you check the license agreement of MS word, you can see that you have no permission to use this part of MS Word except in this software. > And of course, buying a piece of software does not necessarily mean that > "you are getting license to use this software as it is". It depends very > different things depending on the license. I won't go into details, as > this is off-topic. I agree with you . when you buy a software you should check the License Agreement . You have permission based on License Agreement and if you don't accept this agreement , you are not allowed to install and use this software. When you install this software , it means you agree with License Agreement . Anyway, I think , License Agreement is the most important piece of a package or software. So let me talk about special software and analyzing the License Agreement of that software. Regards, Ebadat A.R. - Original Message - From: "Roozbeh Pournader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ebadat A.R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Behdad Esfahbod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Persian Computing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 2004/03/03 09:04 PM Subject: Re: Dictionaries on the web > On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 12:32, Ebadat A.R. wrote: > > Hi, > > I think putting Dictionaries on the web needs a special license . > > What about putting dictionaries in a public library? Is this not the > same issue? What is the difference between a physical copy in a very > crowded libary and a web service? > > I am trying to list some (with differing opinions in parentheses): > > 1) In a library, only one person can use the dictionary at a certain > moment; in other words, word lookups can't happen simultaneously, and > should happen by some delay. (But that is also true about the online > dictionary: the CPU can only serve one request at a certain time. The > two users will definitely have some difference on when they get the info > if they request it at the same time.) > > 2) In a library, there is a physical presence requirement. (How is that > supposed to be important? Does that also mean you may put such a > software on your intranet but not the internet? If yes, what is the > exact legal difference?) > > 3) A library is an old notion, by selling a paper copy of the > dictionary, the copyright holder knows the maximum possible extent how > it may get shared in a library previously, but it's another scenario > when you put the information online. (I can't find anything against > that.) > > > Buying a > > software means you are getting license to use this software as it is. There > > is no license for presenting this software on the web. > > But we are not talking about software here. Information is different > from software. It really depends on how you define software. Is an MS > Word document software? > > And of course, buying a piece of software does not necessarily mean that > "you are getting license to use this software as it is". It depends very > different things depending on the license. I won't go into details, as > this is off-topic. > > roozbeh > > ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Long Live Owen Taylor
Now we can stop using KEdit and other ugly KDE applications(dont flame me if you are a KDE advoacte). hope to see more improvements. Masoud --- Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear friends, > > This is my pleasure to share with you my feelings > about the > patches that Owen has applied to pango CVS in the > recent days. > Among many other great patches are two patches of > special > interest of Arabeyes and PersianComputing > communities: > > Bug #70451 Automatic paragraph direction according > to Unicode BiDi algorithm > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70451 > > and > > But #117282 Pango can't render Arabic accents > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117282 > > So now it means that: > > * Pango can correctly render Arabic harakats > * Pango can detect the paragraph direction on the > fly. > > Have a look at the attached screenshot from gedit, > became > possible with the CVS version of glib, pango, and > gtk+. Persian > font is courtesy of the FarsiWeb Project. > > Thanks Owen, > > behdad > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=pango-rocks.jpg > ___ > PersianComputing mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Ebadat A.R. wrote: > Hi, > I think putting Dictionaries on the web needs a special license . Buying a > software means you are getting license to use this software as it is. There > is no license for presenting this software on the web. If you want to use > software in another program or another location you have to get special > license for new location. No. It all comes than to the EULA (End-User License Agreement) of the software. If there is no EULA, then as you have *bought* the software, you can do whatever you want with it, as it's your property. But EULAs generally state that you have not bought the software, but the permission to use it in this and that way. I have seen in EULA of many international software things like you are only allowed to run this software on this operating system, and for this usage. You are NOT allowed to extract data from it or use the data provided in this software in this or that way... Last time I bought a dictionary CD in Tehran, I checked and the EULA had no clause about not extracting the data and use in other applications. And Roozbeh has already answered the question that Web is different or not. I say not. Consider this scenarios: - I have a library. I provide the service that you call me, ask for the meaning of a word, and I look up the meaning in a few dictionaries I have in the library, and answer you back. - Now, with the advances in technology, you can simply send me an SMS other my cell phone and I would reply back with the meaning of the word you asked for. - Later I spend more and develop an automated system that on receiving an SMS, it would look up the meaning in dictionaries that I have bought in form of CD and replies back with the meanings. - Now I connect my system to internet and provide the same service on Yahoo! Messenger and over Email. - Finally I run a web server and provide the dictionaries in a web application. So, which of these I'm allowed to do and which not? If you agree that I'm allowed to do the first one, the you either you should agree that I'm allowed to do them all, or there is one of the scenarios you believed it allowed, following by another scenario that you believe I'm not allowed to do. As you can see the difference between adjacent scenarios is so small that you can hardly allow one and disallow the other. > We are working on Machine Translation system (Pars Translator > http://www.ParsTranslator.Net ) and our customers have no license to put > this software on the web as we mentioned in License Agreement before. As I So you have mentioned that they are not allowed to do that. > saw in many software (specially dictionaries) , there is no license to put > the dictionary on the web. Let me know if you have any Dictionary software > with license for putting data on the web. I would ask someone (Behnam, please?) to type and send us the EULA of Bateni and AryanPour CDs available in Tehran. behdad > Regards, > Pars Translator Group, > Ebadat A.R. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: > On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 09:53, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > I just want to note that simply putting an online dictionary > > service on the web does not need any permission from the > > copyright holder of the dictionary data. > > I can neither confirm or deny that. It *depends*. What if someone puts > the whole "linux.words" file through your web service and extracts all > the information? Will you not be a party to the copyright infringement? What if someone borrows the dictionary from the library and then makes a complete photocopy? Is the library a party of the copyright infringement? behdad > IANAL either, but my amateur legal advice is "I don't know". You should > ask a lawyer if you are going to do that. > > roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 12:32, Ebadat A.R. wrote: > Hi, > I think putting Dictionaries on the web needs a special license . What about putting dictionaries in a public library? Is this not the same issue? What is the difference between a physical copy in a very crowded libary and a web service? I am trying to list some (with differing opinions in parentheses): 1) In a library, only one person can use the dictionary at a certain moment; in other words, word lookups can't happen simultaneously, and should happen by some delay. (But that is also true about the online dictionary: the CPU can only serve one request at a certain time. The two users will definitely have some difference on when they get the info if they request it at the same time.) 2) In a library, there is a physical presence requirement. (How is that supposed to be important? Does that also mean you may put such a software on your intranet but not the internet? If yes, what is the exact legal difference?) 3) A library is an old notion, by selling a paper copy of the dictionary, the copyright holder knows the maximum possible extent how it may get shared in a library previously, but it's another scenario when you put the information online. (I can't find anything against that.) > Buying a > software means you are getting license to use this software as it is. There > is no license for presenting this software on the web. But we are not talking about software here. Information is different from software. It really depends on how you define software. Is an MS Word document software? And of course, buying a piece of software does not necessarily mean that "you are getting license to use this software as it is". It depends very different things depending on the license. I won't go into details, as this is off-topic. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Long Live Owen Taylor
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, C Bobroff wrote: > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > * Pango can correctly render Arabic harakats > > Behdad, > You're talking about Arabic here so that's fine but don't forget when > testing Persian, you should test with presence of lots of ZWNJ's. The > presence of ZWNJ seems to cause the browser to not be able to calculate > where to put the harakat and they end up randomly strewn about. At least > that's what's been observed with Mozilla and also on Mac's. > I can't say for sure if ZWNJ is the culprit but it appears to be so. You > of course know more about this than me. > > -Connie Hi Connie, Fortunately Pango has been supporting ZWNJ and proper placement of both marks and cursor. The two named features are new. behdad ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Long Live Owen Taylor
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > * Pango can correctly render Arabic harakats Behdad, You're talking about Arabic here so that's fine but don't forget when testing Persian, you should test with presence of lots of ZWNJ's. The presence of ZWNJ seems to cause the browser to not be able to calculate where to put the harakat and they end up randomly strewn about. At least that's what's been observed with Mozilla and also on Mac's. I can't say for sure if ZWNJ is the culprit but it appears to be so. You of course know more about this than me. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 09:53, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > I just want to note that simply putting an online dictionary > service on the web does not need any permission from the > copyright holder of the dictionary data. I can neither confirm or deny that. It *depends*. What if someone puts the whole "linux.words" file through your web service and extracts all the information? Will you not be a party to the copyright infringement? IANAL either, but my amateur legal advice is "I don't know". You should ask a lawyer if you are going to do that. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
> And I > only forwarded it to the list because he has insulted Iranian > people in general, [putting on my list admin hat] An email being insultive is a good reason NOT to forward to the list, not a good reason to send it to our more than 200 readers and the many who will see it later on Google. [removing it] I agree with you. It has been insulting. Not abiding by the international copyright law in Iran is not a good way to call Iranians that way. > Perhaps the most influental > Iranian Free Software developer ever Oh, la la! > (not counting FarsiTeX > developers, as I'm talking about global influence, not local to > Iran). Correcting that: "not local to Iranians". > > be honest , i think that is not my problem. > > And that's exactly my problem with you! I'm a Free Software > developer, and you are putting us Free Software developers in > problem by [...] The problem here, is that Ali is a newbie Free Software developer (well, in legal resepects of course) who doesn't know the legal side. Let's help him understand 1) that it is important, 2) the exact details of the problem that he should resolve. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Long Live Owen Taylor
Dear friends, This is my pleasure to share with you my feelings about the patches that Owen has applied to pango CVS in the recent days. Among many other great patches are two patches of special interest of Arabeyes and PersianComputing communities: Bug #70451 Automatic paragraph direction according to Unicode BiDi algorithm http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70451 and But #117282 Pango can't render Arabic accents http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117282 So now it means that: * Pango can correctly render Arabic harakats * Pango can detect the paragraph direction on the fly. Have a look at the attached screenshot from gedit, became possible with the CVS version of glib, pango, and gtk+. Persian font is courtesy of the FarsiWeb Project. Thanks Owen, behdad<>___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
Hi, I think putting Dictionaries on the web needs a special license . Buying a software means you are getting license to use this software as it is. There is no license for presenting this software on the web. If you want to use software in another program or another location you have to get special license for new location. We are working on Machine Translation system (Pars Translator http://www.ParsTranslator.Net ) and our customers have no license to put this software on the web as we mentioned in License Agreement before. As I saw in many software (specially dictionaries) , there is no license to put the dictionary on the web. Let me know if you have any Dictionary software with license for putting data on the web. Regards, Pars Translator Group, Ebadat A.R. - Original Message - From: "Behdad Esfahbod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Persian Computing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 2004/03/03 09:53 AM Subject: Dictionaries on the web > Long boring thread again. > > I just want to note that simply putting an online dictionary > service on the web does not need any permission from the > copyright holder of the dictionary data. So for example I can > buy an Aryanpour dictionary, extract the data, and write a web > program that you can query the meaning of a particular word, and > it would return to you the meaning. > > The important point here is that, for this to be legal: > > * You should have obtained your copy of the information > legally, eg. bought the CD. > > * You should not redistribute the data, eg. no "download > dictionary here". > > Last but not least, IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer). > > > behdad > > > PS. I know at least one online dictionary service that is > claiming to be legal in this way. They do not service to the > public still because they are not sure about the validity of the > above argument. > > ___ > PersianComputing mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
