Re: [ADMIN] ERServer on Windows?

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 06:54:54PM +0800, Chen Shaopeng wrote:
> Has anyone gotten ERServer (the async replication server) work on
> Windows and would like to share some ideas?

Not as far as I know.  In principle, it should work: the whole thing
except for the setup scripts is written in Java.  You'd need to write
some start and stop scripts which didn't depend on having a Bourne
shell, I suppose.

You _must_ use the Sun JDK.  I'd certainly be interested in any
reports of success or failure.  There's a mailing list dedicated to
the topic of erserver, available on the gborg site.

A
-- 
Andrew Sullivan  | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The plural of anecdote is not data.
--Roger Brinner

---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

   http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[Andrew Rawnsley]

On Dec 1, 2003, at 2:34 PM, Christopher Browne wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Renney Thomas) writes:
I would like to hear about any issues related to erserver. I was a
little concerned about its use of Java.  Java is a great tool for
creating application frameworks for the payroll department, but using
it for back-end system-level application programming is a bit
unnerving. Java is generally slow, memory and CPU intensive and
doesn't provide for tight integration like C/C++ applications.
There are things about Java that cause me concern, but I would dispute
this being the total story.
The thing about database-based applications is that they wind up
hitting the _database_ pretty hard.  And when the bulk of the work is
database queries, where it's _PostgreSQL_ doing the work, it's not
Java that is likely to be the bottleneck.
Replication is certainly no exception to this.  The bulk of
replication work takes place in the database.  In extreme cases, there
_may_ be Java-based bottlenecks to be found, but that doesn't seem to
be the typical case.
There are some design problems in the erserver code that do cause some 
bottlenecks -
see Andrew Sullivan's description of show-stoppers from a month or two 
ago. This is more
of a design issue than a java-centric issue, however.

In addition, I think you're looking at Java as how it was 4 years ago.
Sun has relearned some of the things about garbage collection learned
15 years earlier in the Lisp community.  They have built larger sets
of compiled-to-machine-language libraries akin to LIBC, so that
increasing portions of "system calls" are run as plenty fast compiled
code.  And JIT means that raw Java isn't as slow as it used to be.
By no means. I find it amusing the number of people who, because java 
didn't
live up to their interpretation of the original hype (nothing could, 
really), don't realize
how popular and entrenched it is in certain areas. No, there aren't 
web-enabled word processors and
whatnot everywhere like Sun tried to make everyone believe, but its 
huge in the
server/DB/web delivery world.

There are tradeoffs, of course. But such is the story of life.

As for java being a "great tool for creating application frameworks for 
the payroll department", well,
my version of an "application framework for a payroll department" 
manages about $90 billion in assets,
so it must be a little bit up to the task :).

--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="libertyrms.info" in String.concat "@" 
[name;tld];;

Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)

---(end of 
broadcast)---
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings



Andrew Rawnsley
President
The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd.
(740) 587-0114
www.ravensfield.com
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
  http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[Christopher Browne]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Renney Thomas) writes:
> I would like to hear about any issues related to erserver. I was a
> little concerned about its use of Java.  Java is a great tool for
> creating application frameworks for the payroll department, but using
> it for back-end system-level application programming is a bit
> unnerving. Java is generally slow, memory and CPU intensive and
> doesn't provide for tight integration like C/C++ applications.

There are things about Java that cause me concern, but I would dispute
this being the total story.

The thing about database-based applications is that they wind up
hitting the _database_ pretty hard.  And when the bulk of the work is
database queries, where it's _PostgreSQL_ doing the work, it's not
Java that is likely to be the bottleneck.

Replication is certainly no exception to this.  The bulk of
replication work takes place in the database.  In extreme cases, there
_may_ be Java-based bottlenecks to be found, but that doesn't seem to
be the typical case.

In addition, I think you're looking at Java as how it was 4 years ago.
Sun has relearned some of the things about garbage collection learned
15 years earlier in the Lisp community.  They have built larger sets
of compiled-to-machine-language libraries akin to LIBC, so that
increasing portions of "system calls" are run as plenty fast compiled
code.  And JIT means that raw Java isn't as slow as it used to be.
-- 
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="libertyrms.info" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;

Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)

---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[James Cooper]

I can't comment on exactly how eRserver benchmarks. But your comments on 
Java are sadly misplaced, maybe '95 esque. You'll find that allot of the 
misconceptions around java as a language stem from crtique with in roots 
from the frist widely accessible virtual machine  1.0.2. Many of the so 
called performance issues have long since been resolved which is quite 
miraculous for a language a little over 8 years old.

You'll also be pleased to find that many different virtual machine 
perform very differently to the free sun hotspot virtual machine, some 
such as TowerJ allow for enhanced compile to platform capabitilities 
though of course you loose platform independence. But thats not an issue 
for everyone.

I could list the urban myths perpetuated about Java's performance, but 
as this is not a Java developers list I think its out of place.

As for using eRserver, we decided against it and for clients that 
require clustered highly available datagroups, we recommend oracle. I 
would not say it was its performance or reliability per se, but rather 
support, tools that lacked for someone who had different needs to our 
regular uses who are quite happy with Postgre.

Renney Thomas wrote:

I would like to hear about any issues related to erserver. I was a 
little concerned about its use of Java.  Java is a great tool for 
creating application frameworks for the payroll department, but using 
it for back-end system-level application programming is a bit 
unnerving. Java is generally slow, memory and CPU intensive and 
doesn't provide for tight integration like C/C++ applications.
Thanks

---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
 subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your
 message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
--
James Cooper
Software Engineer, Wificom Technologies Ltd Uudenmaankatu 23 
ATel. +358 9 5627 4600
00120 Helsinki, FinlandFax. +358 9 5627 4601



---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
   (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver (slightly offtopic)

[Grega Bremec]

...and on Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 03:27:56PM -0500, Renney Thomas used the keyboard:
>
> I would like to hear about any issues related to erserver. I was a 
> little concerned about its use of Java.  Java is a great tool for 
> creating application frameworks for the payroll department, but using it 
> for back-end system-level application programming is a bit unnerving. 
> Java is generally slow, memory and CPU intensive and doesn't provide for 
> tight integration like C/C++ applications. 
> 
> Thanks

Just a comment on Java, not quite related to your post, Renney. It is by
no means intended as a flamebait, I would just like to remind you all that
the times when Java was a memory and cpu hog are generally almost over.
I see this kind of attitude on a daily basis, and it almost kind of makes
me sad, because the illusion that people accepting such a stance regarding
ANY tool have put upon themselves is really hurting themselves in the end,
as it's usually related to anecdotal and outdated evidence, but most of all,
heresy and lack of real proof (not of slowness in this case, hehe, ANYONE
can write a bad program :)).

The fact you need a 20-30% faster cpu to have Java apps working as smoothly
as they would if one used a C application (and i won't even _attempt_ to
mention C++ here, because it is, in my not-so-humble opinion, far worse than
Java), is contrasted by the massive cut in development time, manpower needed
to do the job and the number of bugs produced during the development period.
Double free() crash due to a missing #ifdef? Eeew. Sorry for you, lad.

As with all development tools, this is mainly a "the right tool for the
right job" issue, no doubt, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to write a
realtime application in Java, but the man doing it has no less to do with
it than the job itself. A good programmer can compensate for the loss in
execution time in far less than the time they'd have used for debugging a
tool developed in C.

There are many performance and optimization documents and books for Java,
but it is not a "tweak" that will make your Java program work fast. You need
to be capable of performing a bit more profound "pirouette" in your mind.
Java programming is quite unlike any C/C++ programming. Sure, you can write
Java programs the way you'd do it in C, but that's never going to get you
far, performance-wise. A Java Virtual Machine is such an advanced beast
that you really need to get to know it better before you can talk about its
"general slowness", and write it off for its "memory and CPU intensiveness"
alone.

There are many design-pattern-level books that make it possible for one to
realize where the true power of both the Java VM and Java as a programming
language is though, and develop fast, scalable and reliable applications in
Java as well. One amongst those definitely worth mentioning would surely be
Doug Lea's "Concurrent programming in Java - Design principles and patterns",
and it coming from the insiders themselves, I can assure you that it really
is worth a look.

One has to decide one's interested and truely wants to find something useful
in a tool though, before one can see its true value.

Hope this helped.
-- 
Grega Bremec
System Administration & Development Support
grega.bremec-at-noviforum.si
http://najdi.si/
http://www.noviforum.si/


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [ADMIN] ERserver problems

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:43:00AM -0500, Kris Kiger wrote:
> I have two databases set up, one designated as a master (w/database 
> named masterdb) and one designated as a slave (w/ database named 
> slavedb).  My problem is that the two are inexplicably not replicating. 

Please see the archives for the mailing list for erserver.  They're
available at the erserver gborg site.  In short, there is a bug in
the setup scripts, and you need to do some work by hand. 
Instructions are in the archives.

A

-- 

Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
Afilias CanadaToronto, Ontario Canada
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  M2P 2A8
 +1 416 646 3304 x110


---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

   http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

Re: [ADMIN] ERserver patch question

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 09:14:09AM -0500, Kris Kiger wrote:
> Has anyone installed the ant_buildfile_upgrade for ERServer?  I haven't 
> been able to find install instructions or figure it out since, for some 
> reason, the patch appears to be in XML.  Any ideas?  Thanks for the help

I haven't had the time to patch and check that everything builds
correctly (sorry, everyone), so I haven't applied it to the CVS
system.  But it _is_ in XML, because that's how Ant buildfiles are
written.  I'm not exactly sure what the patch is supposed to do, BTW. 
The program all builds for me.

A

-- 

Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
Afilias CanadaToronto, Ontario Canada
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  M2P 2A8
 +1 416 646 3304 x110


---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 10:34:24PM -0400, alexander v p wrote:
> It was released couple of days ago. now i have a problem. i tried to
> install to work with 7.3.4 on FreeBSD box ( cvsuped to stable) w/o luck.
> i have problems with build:
> any ideas?

The xerces file is corrupt.  It's my fault.  I'll fix it.

A

-- 

Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
Liberty RMS   Toronto, Ontario Canada
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  M2P 2A8
 +1 416 646 3304 x110


---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[Marc G. Fournier]

You need JDK 1.4.x ... or, at least, all our tests were done using it ...


On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, alexander v p wrote:

> It was released couple of days ago. now i have a problem. i tried to
> install to work with 7.3.4 on FreeBSD box ( cvsuped to stable) w/o luck.
> i have problems with build:
> any ideas?
> alex
>
> - error !!! --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/za_install/erserver_v1.2]% gmake
> cd java; /bin/sh ./build.sh create; cd ..
>
> WhoisJ Build System
> ---
> REPLIC_HOME is .
> Saving CLASSPATH:
>
> New CLASSPATH is:
> lib/jdbc7.0-1.2.jar:lib/log4j.jar:lib/xerces.jar
> New ANT_HOME is ./tools
> Ant version 1.3alpha compiled on December 30 2000
>
> Buildfile: build.xml
> Detected Java Version: 1.3
> Detected OS: FreeBSD
>
> BUILD FAILED
>
> javax.xml.parsers.FactoryConfigurationError: Cannot load class
> SAXParserFactory class "org.apache.xerces.jaxp.SAXParserFactoryImpl"
> at
> javax.xml.parsers.SAXParserFactory.newInstance(SAXParserFactory.java:153)
> at
> org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.getParserFactory(ProjectHelper.java)
> at org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.parse(ProjectHelper.java)
> at
> org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.configureProject(ProjectHelper.java)
> at org.apache.tools.ant.Main.runBuild(Main.java)
> at org.apache.tools.ant.Main.main(Main.java)
>
> Total time: 0 seconds
> Cannot load class SAXParserFactory class
> "org.apache.xerces.jaxp.SAXParserFactoryImpl"
> Restoring CLASSPATH:
>
> Restoring ANT_HOME:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/za_install/erserver_v1.2]%
> ---
>
>
> On Wed, 14 May 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 09:50:52AM -0700, gunther hust wrote:
> > > Can anyone tell me where to find information on this
> > > product and if it's still being supported?  I tried
> > > www.erserver.com but it's not responding.
> >
> > The host was down because of a machine failure, apparently.  You can
> > try again; I know that the CVS tree for it was up yesterday.
> >
> > It is indeed being supported, because we have been making some
> > improvements to it for our own use.
> >
> > (I do not know when or if PostgreSQL, Inc. is going to release the
> > code under the BSD license, BTW, so questions about that I can't
> > answer.)
> >
> > A
> > --
> > 
> > Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
> > Liberty RMS   Toronto, Ontario Canada
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  M2P 2A8
> >  +1 416 646 3304 x110
> >
> >
> > ---(end of broadcast)---
> > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> >
>
>
> ---(end of broadcast)---
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>   subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your
>   message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>

---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ADMIN] eRserver

[alexander v p]

It was released couple of days ago. now i have a problem. i tried to
install to work with 7.3.4 on FreeBSD box ( cvsuped to stable) w/o luck.
i have problems with build:
any ideas?
alex

- error !!! --
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/za_install/erserver_v1.2]% gmake
cd java; /bin/sh ./build.sh create; cd ..

WhoisJ Build System
---
REPLIC_HOME is .
Saving CLASSPATH:

New CLASSPATH is:
lib/jdbc7.0-1.2.jar:lib/log4j.jar:lib/xerces.jar
New ANT_HOME is ./tools
Ant version 1.3alpha compiled on December 30 2000

Buildfile: build.xml
Detected Java Version: 1.3
Detected OS: FreeBSD

BUILD FAILED

javax.xml.parsers.FactoryConfigurationError: Cannot load class
SAXParserFactory class "org.apache.xerces.jaxp.SAXParserFactoryImpl"
at
javax.xml.parsers.SAXParserFactory.newInstance(SAXParserFactory.java:153)
at
org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.getParserFactory(ProjectHelper.java)
at org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.parse(ProjectHelper.java)
at
org.apache.tools.ant.ProjectHelper.configureProject(ProjectHelper.java)
at org.apache.tools.ant.Main.runBuild(Main.java)
at org.apache.tools.ant.Main.main(Main.java)

Total time: 0 seconds
Cannot load class SAXParserFactory class
"org.apache.xerces.jaxp.SAXParserFactoryImpl"
Restoring CLASSPATH:

Restoring ANT_HOME:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]/za_install/erserver_v1.2]%
---


On Wed, 14 May 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

> On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 09:50:52AM -0700, gunther hust wrote:
> > Can anyone tell me where to find information on this
> > product and if it's still being supported?  I tried
> > www.erserver.com but it's not responding.
> 
> The host was down because of a machine failure, apparently.  You can
> try again; I know that the CVS tree for it was up yesterday.
> 
> It is indeed being supported, because we have been making some
> improvements to it for our own use.  
> 
> (I do not know when or if PostgreSQL, Inc. is going to release the
> code under the BSD license, BTW, so questions about that I can't
> answer.)
> 
> A
> -- 
> 
> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
> Liberty RMS   Toronto, Ontario Canada
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  M2P 2A8
>  +1 416 646 3304 x110
> 
> 
> ---(end of broadcast)---
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> 
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> 


---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
  subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your
  message can get through to the mailing list cleanly