Re: [ADMIN] Automatic trigger to backup

[Scott Mead]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Vinay Sarvana wrote:

> Hi. Is there any possibility for creating trigger file automatically in
> postgres. Scenario is as follows :
>
> There are some application which is having this postgres database. There
> are main & backup database. Application is normally connected to first
> server. If main server fails, application should connect to backup server.
> This is PITR environment where WAL files are transferring from the main to
> backup.
>
> Manually we are creating the trigger file for that application to connect
> to backup database which will be master. Then we need to make previous
> master as slave.
>
> I need to know the automatic creation of trigger file?
>

The trigger file is not automatically created, you would need to do that
yourself.  You could always write a script to fire from cron to check if the
master database was done, but be careful, if your network cable comes
unplugged, you may end up triggering a failover event that you don't need
to.  Just make sure that your master server is resilient and that whatever
script you write doesn't create the trigger file until after having done
multiple connection attempts.

--Scott



>
> Vinay
>

[ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87]

Hello,
 
I need a clarification on auto-vacuum. Appreciate any
clarification/help.
 
As explained in page 1093 of postgresql-8.2-US.pdf, VACUUM command works
either in plain mode (if we do not specify FULL) or in FULL mode. When
autovacuum is enabled, what mode does it run the VACUUM command (in
plain mode or in FULL mode)?

postgresql-8.2-US.pdf manual is available at
http://www.postgresql.org/files/documentation/pdf/8.2/postgresql-8.2-US.
pdf
 
 
Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)
 

Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Guillaume Lelarge]

Hi,

Le 14/05/2010 14:52, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 a écrit :
> [...]
> I need a clarification on auto-vacuum. Appreciate any
> clarification/help.
>  
> As explained in page 1093 of postgresql-8.2-US.pdf, VACUUM command works
> either in plain mode (if we do not specify FULL) or in FULL mode. When
> autovacuum is enabled, what mode does it run the VACUUM command (in
> plain mode or in FULL mode)?

In plain mode.


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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87]

Hi Guillaume,

Thanks for a quick response.

How do I check this? Please clarify.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: Guillaume Lelarge [mailto:guilla...@lelarge.info] 
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 6:34 PM
To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

Hi,

Le 14/05/2010 14:52, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 a écrit :
> [...]
> I need a clarification on auto-vacuum. Appreciate any 
> clarification/help.
>  
> As explained in page 1093 of postgresql-8.2-US.pdf, VACUUM command 
> works either in plain mode (if we do not specify FULL) or in FULL 
> mode. When autovacuum is enabled, what mode does it run the VACUUM 
> command (in plain mode or in FULL mode)?

In plain mode.


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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Kevin Grittner]

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
> Guillaume Lelarge  wrote:
>> Le 14/05/2010 14:52, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 a écrit :
 
>>> VACUUM command works either in plain mode (if we do not specify
>>> FULL) or in FULL mode. When autovacuum is enabled, what mode
>>> does it run the VACUUM command (in plain mode or in FULL mode)?
>> 
>> In plain mode.
 
> How do I check this? Please clarify.
 
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/interactive/routine-vacuuming.html#VACUUM-FOR-SPACE-RECOVERY
 
Since VACUUM FULL is not recommended for routine use, it would
hardly make sense to use it for autovacuum.  If you want to confirm,
try selecting from a table while autovacuum is vacuuming it -- since
VACUUM FULL locks the table against all other uses, the ability to
select proves it's not VACUUM FULL.
 
By the way, I hope you're not considering scheduling regular VACUUM
FULL runs against your database.  You would wind up regretting that.
If you don't believe that, I recommend that you reread the
above-cited section until you're convinced.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the clarification.

I have planned to schedule Lazy Vacuum (, not FULL Vacuum) using auto-vacuum 
daemon.

Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum runs both 
both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable running ANALYZE 
during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?

Pl clarify.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Grittner [mailto:kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov] 
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 7:10 PM
To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
> Guillaume Lelarge  wrote:
>> Le 14/05/2010 14:52, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 a écrit :
 
>>> VACUUM command works either in plain mode (if we do not specify
>>> FULL) or in FULL mode. When autovacuum is enabled, what mode does it 
>>> run the VACUUM command (in plain mode or in FULL mode)?
>> 
>> In plain mode.
 
> How do I check this? Please clarify.
 
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/interactive/routine-vacuuming.html#VACUUM-FOR-SPACE-RECOVERY
 
Since VACUUM FULL is not recommended for routine use, it would hardly make 
sense to use it for autovacuum.  If you want to confirm, try selecting from a 
table while autovacuum is vacuuming it -- since VACUUM FULL locks the table 
against all other uses, the ability to select proves it's not VACUUM FULL.
 
By the way, I hope you're not considering scheduling regular VACUUM FULL runs 
against your database.  You would wind up regretting that.
If you don't believe that, I recommend that you reread the above-cited section 
until you're convinced.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Scott Marlowe]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
 wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> I have planned to schedule Lazy Vacuum (, not FULL Vacuum) using auto-vacuum 
> daemon.
>
> Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum runs both 
> both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable running ANALYZE 
> during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?

Why would you NOT want to analyze?  Are you considering doing your own
analyzes at the end of a series of updates?

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Kevin Grittner]

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
 
> Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum
> runs both both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to
> disable running ANALYZE during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to
> achive this?
 
Usually it's best to run ANALYZE more often than VACUUM, since the
statistics generated by ANALYZE are used to choose the most
efficient plan, and ANALYZE runs faster because it just takes a
random sample of rows.  Out-of-date statistics are one of the most
common causes of slow queries.  That's not to say there couldn't be
some very unusual circumstances under which it might make sense to
disable ANALYZE, but I'm highly skeptical.
 
Anyway, if you *really* want to shoot that fly off the end of your
toe (to stretch a metaphor), you could adjust the autovacuum
settings related to analyze to really high values.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for a quick response.

I am using a 3rd party application, which in turn using PostgreSQL DB. I
can not change/tune the SQL queries, performed by the 3rd party
application. Hence, the statistics generated by ANALYZE, is of no use to
me. That is the reason, I have planned not to run ANALYZE.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Grittner [mailto:kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov] 
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:18 PM
To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM
command mode

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
 
> Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum runs

> both both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable 
> running ANALYZE during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?
 
Usually it's best to run ANALYZE more often than VACUUM, since the
statistics generated by ANALYZE are used to choose the most efficient
plan, and ANALYZE runs faster because it just takes a random sample of
rows.  Out-of-date statistics are one of the most common causes of slow
queries.  That's not to say there couldn't be some very unusual
circumstances under which it might make sense to disable ANALYZE, but
I'm highly skeptical.
 
Anyway, if you *really* want to shoot that fly off the end of your toe
(to stretch a metaphor), you could adjust the autovacuum settings
related to analyze to really high values.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Lewis Kapell]

You misunderstand the purpose of ANALYZE.  Postgres needs the results in 
order to perform queries efficiently.  Whether you have the ability to 
change or tune the queries is beside the point.


- Lewis


On 5/14/2010 11:01 AM, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 wrote:

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for a quick response.

I am using a 3rd party application, which in turn using PostgreSQL DB. I
can not change/tune the SQL queries, performed by the 3rd party
application. Hence, the statistics generated by ANALYZE, is of no use to
me. That is the reason, I have planned not to run ANALYZE.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Grittner [mailto:kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:18 PM
To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM
command mode

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:


Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum runs



both both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable
running ANALYZE during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?


Usually it's best to run ANALYZE more often than VACUUM, since the
statistics generated by ANALYZE are used to choose the most efficient
plan, and ANALYZE runs faster because it just takes a random sample of
rows.  Out-of-date statistics are one of the most common causes of slow
queries.  That's not to say there couldn't be some very unusual
circumstances under which it might make sense to disable ANALYZE, but
I'm highly skeptical.

Anyway, if you *really* want to shoot that fly off the end of your toe
(to stretch a metaphor), you could adjust the autovacuum settings
related to analyze to really high values.

-Kevin




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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Kevin Grittner]

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
 
> I am using a 3rd party application, which in turn using PostgreSQL
> DB. I can not change/tune the SQL queries, performed by the 3rd
> party application. Hence, the statistics generated by ANALYZE, is of
no
> use to me. That is the reason, I have planned not to run ANALYZE.
 
I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what ANALYZE does.  Did that
vendor specifically tell you to disable ANALYZE?  Unless they're
doing some analysis of the distribution of data and creating their
own statistics (remotely possible but highly unusual), the
statistics generated by ANALYZE will be required to allow the
queries they've written to execute efficiently.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87]

Hi Lewis,

Thanks for the clarification.

Referring to the statement in postgresql-8.2-US.pdf document "ANALYZE
collects statistics about the contents of tables in the database ...
query planner uses these statistics to help determine the most efficient
execution plans for queries."

From your response, I now understood that "Query planner" is part of
PostgreSQL DB.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: pgsql-admin-ow...@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-admin-ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Lewis Kapell
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:34 PM
To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM
command mode

You misunderstand the purpose of ANALYZE.  Postgres needs the results in
order to perform queries efficiently.  Whether you have the ability to
change or tune the queries is beside the point.

- Lewis


On 5/14/2010 11:01 AM, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Thanks again for a quick response.
>
> I am using a 3rd party application, which in turn using PostgreSQL DB.

> I can not change/tune the SQL queries, performed by the 3rd party 
> application. Hence, the statistics generated by ANALYZE, is of no use 
> to me. That is the reason, I have planned not to run ANALYZE.
>
> Regards, Narasimha Murthy
> Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin Grittner [mailto:kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:18 PM
> To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
> Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM 
> command mode
>
> "Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"  wrote:
>
>> Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum 
>> runs
>
>> both both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable 
>> running ANALYZE during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?
>
> Usually it's best to run ANALYZE more often than VACUUM, since the 
> statistics generated by ANALYZE are used to choose the most efficient 
> plan, and ANALYZE runs faster because it just takes a random sample of

> rows.  Out-of-date statistics are one of the most common causes of 
> slow queries.  That's not to say there couldn't be some very unusual 
> circumstances under which it might make sense to disable ANALYZE, but 
> I'm highly skeptical.
>
> Anyway, if you *really* want to shoot that fly off the end of your toe

> (to stretch a metaphor), you could adjust the autovacuum settings 
> related to analyze to really high values.
>
> -Kevin
>


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Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM command mode

[Lewis Kapell]

Yes, the query planner is part of Postgres itself.  Here are some pages 
of the manual that talk about the planner and how it works:


http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/using-explain.html
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/planner-stats.html

And this talks about configuration options to control (or at least 
influence) what the planner does:


http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/runtime-config-query.html

- Lewis


On 5/14/2010 11:17 AM, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 wrote:

Hi Lewis,

Thanks for the clarification.

Referring to the statement in postgresql-8.2-US.pdf document "ANALYZE
collects statistics about the contents of tables in the database ...
query planner uses these statistics to help determine the most efficient
execution plans for queries."

 From your response, I now understood that "Query planner" is part of
PostgreSQL DB.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: pgsql-admin-ow...@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-admin-ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Lewis Kapell
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:34 PM
To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM
command mode

You misunderstand the purpose of ANALYZE.  Postgres needs the results in
order to perform queries efficiently.  Whether you have the ability to
change or tune the queries is beside the point.

- Lewis


On 5/14/2010 11:01 AM, Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87 wrote:

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for a quick response.

I am using a 3rd party application, which in turn using PostgreSQL DB.



I can not change/tune the SQL queries, performed by the 3rd party
application. Hence, the statistics generated by ANALYZE, is of no use
to me. That is the reason, I have planned not to run ANALYZE.

Regards, Narasimha Murthy
Cell +91 95814 98895, +91-94940 62794 | 040-2347 2025 (O) | x2025 (O)

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Grittner [mailto:kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:18 PM
To: Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87
Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Clarification required: autovacuum and VACUUM
command mode

"Narasimha Murthy-VRFX87"   wrote:


Another query: I do not want to run Analyze. However, auto-vacuum
runs



both both VACUUM and ANALYZE. I do not see any option to disable
running ANALYZE during auto-vacuum. Is there any way to achive this?


Usually it's best to run ANALYZE more often than VACUUM, since the
statistics generated by ANALYZE are used to choose the most efficient
plan, and ANALYZE runs faster because it just takes a random sample of



rows.  Out-of-date statistics are one of the most common causes of
slow queries.  That's not to say there couldn't be some very unusual
circumstances under which it might make sense to disable ANALYZE, but
I'm highly skeptical.

Anyway, if you *really* want to shoot that fly off the end of your toe



(to stretch a metaphor), you could adjust the autovacuum settings
related to analyze to really high values.

-Kevin




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[ADMIN] advanced backup tool

[Anj Adu]

Will any upcoming release of Postgres have an incremental  backup tool
like Oracle's RMAN? Currently, the WAL based archiving requires many
frequent full backups (especially for large databases) as the replay
of a large number of WAL files will take a very long time. We have a
few databases each over 1Tb and are looking for effective
backup/recovery strategies.  (Currently..we rely on specific partition
backups via COPY command)...but the process is cumbersome.

RMAN's incremental backup effectively makes every incremental backup a
full backup which is a great time-saver during recovery.

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Re: [ADMIN] advanced backup tool

[Joshua D. Drake]

On Fri, 2010-05-14 at 13:12 -0700, Anj Adu wrote:
> Will any upcoming release of Postgres have an incremental  backup tool
> like Oracle's RMAN? Currently, the WAL based archiving requires many
> frequent full backups (especially for large databases) as the replay
> of a large number of WAL files will take a very long time. We have a
> few databases each over 1Tb and are looking for effective
> backup/recovery strategies.  (Currently..we rely on specific partition
> backups via COPY command)...but the process is cumbersome.
> 
> RMAN's incremental backup effectively makes every incremental backup a
> full backup which is a great time-saver during recovery.

We accept patches, donations and sponsorship opportunities :)

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering



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Re: [ADMIN] advanced backup tool

[Kevin Grittner]

Anj Adu  wrote:
 
> Will any upcoming release of Postgres have an incremental  backup
> tool like Oracle's RMAN? Currently, the WAL based archiving
> requires many frequent full backups (especially for large
> databases) as the replay of a large number of WAL files will take
> a very long time. We have a few databases each over 1Tb and are
> looking for effective backup/recovery strategies.  (Currently..we
> rely on specific partition backups via COPY command)...but the
> process is cumbersome.
> 
> RMAN's incremental backup effectively makes every incremental
> backup a full backup which is a great time-saver during recovery.
 
I don't know how well this will fit, but we crafted our own solution
for similar issues with a few simple bash scripts.  The approach is
described prospectively here:
 
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2009-03/msg00233.php
 
with a follow-up here:
 
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2009-07/msg00071.php
 
I hope that is helpful.
 
-Kevin

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Re: [ADMIN] advanced backup tool

[Bruce Momjian]

Anj Adu wrote:
> Will any upcoming release of Postgres have an incremental  backup tool
> like Oracle's RMAN? Currently, the WAL based archiving requires many
> frequent full backups (especially for large databases) as the replay
> of a large number of WAL files will take a very long time. We have a
> few databases each over 1Tb and are looking for effective
> backup/recovery strategies.  (Currently..we rely on specific partition
> backups via COPY command)...but the process is cumbersome.
> 
> RMAN's incremental backup effectively makes every incremental backup a
> full backup which is a great time-saver during recovery.

Sure, look at pg-rman:

http://code.google.com/p/pg-rman/

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

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Re: [ADMIN] advanced backup tool

[Anj Adu]

Thanks for the suggestions.

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Bruce Momjian  wrote:
> Anj Adu wrote:
>> Will any upcoming release of Postgres have an incremental  backup tool
>> like Oracle's RMAN? Currently, the WAL based archiving requires many
>> frequent full backups (especially for large databases) as the replay
>> of a large number of WAL files will take a very long time. We have a
>> few databases each over 1Tb and are looking for effective
>> backup/recovery strategies.  (Currently..we rely on specific partition
>> backups via COPY command)...but the process is cumbersome.
>>
>> RMAN's incremental backup effectively makes every incremental backup a
>> full backup which is a great time-saver during recovery.
>
> Sure, look at pg-rman:
>
>        http://code.google.com/p/pg-rman/
>
> --
>  Bruce Momjian          http://momjian.us
>  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com
>

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