Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Michael Fuhr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 12:21:03PM +0100, Francisco Olarte Sanz wrote: On Wednesday 20 February 2008, Gregory Stark wrote: Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. I thought it was the exact opposite, quoting from RFC1321: Hm, ok, strike intentionally. Nonetheless MD5 is quite computationally intensive compared to quick hashes like the ones Postgres uses or CRC hashes (which we ought to have functions for, but we don't seem to). SHA-1 is even more computationally intensive and SHA-256 far more again. For purposes of speeding up access a simple hash with the possibility of a few collisions is normally fine. You add an additional clause to recheck the original constraint. For purposes of enforcing uniqueness I would be leery of depending on any hash. The decision would depend on the application and the consequences of a spurious error. The chances are slim but it's not impossible. And if you *do* need cryptographic security then don't use MD5, and consider using SHA-256 instead of SHA-1. See RFC 4270 for discussion. ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4270.txt One of the factors in deciding between cryptographic algorithms is the longevity required. MD5 has not been cracked but some suspicious weaknesses have been discovered which might lead to a crack sometime in the future where an attacker might be able to construct new plaintexts with identical hashes. If you just need something secure for session keys then that's not going to be a concern. If you need to distinguish user-provided documents from other user-provided documents you're keeping for decades then it is. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's 24x7 Postgres support! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Juho Saarikko wrote: I suggest implementing unique hash indexes and automatically creating one (and turning the b-tree index into a non-unique one) when a large value is inserted to fix this. Alternatively, fix b-trees so they can handle large values; however, a hash index should be far more efficient for this specific case, since the size of a hash is independent of pre-hash data size. The current implementation of hash indexes actually store the whole key, in addition to the hash, so the size of the hash index is not independent of the key size. There has been some discussion on revamping the hash index implementation, and changing that among other things, but don't hold your breath. As others have pointed out, CREATE UNIQUE INDEX i ON ((md5(column)) is a pretty good work-around. -- Heikki Linnakangas EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As others have pointed out, CREATE UNIQUE INDEX i ON ((md5(column)) is a pretty good work-around. Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. Postgres's internal hash method is exposed for most data types as hashtext() hashfloat8(), hashint4(), etc. These functions were chosen for their lightweight design. Cryptographic security is important only if you're concerned with people being able to intentionally create collisions. In this scenario that's probably not a top threat. Conceivably someone could create a denial-of-service attack slowing down your server by causing your indexes to become unbalanced. But it would be fairly challenging to engineer. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gregory Stark wrote: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As others have pointed out, CREATE UNIQUE INDEX i ON ((md5(column)) is a pretty good work-around. Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. Return type of hash* functions is just 32 bits. I wonder if that's wide enough to avoid accidental collisions? Depends on the application of course... Oh, I missed that you were suggesting a UNIQUE index. That seems unsafe to me even for md5 or its ilk. But that would depend on the application too. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
On Wednesday 20 February 2008, Gregory Stark wrote: Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. I thought it was the exact opposite, quoting from RFC1321: The MD5 algorithm is designed to be quite fast on 32-bit machines. In addition, the MD5 algorithm does not require any large substitution tables; the algorithm can be coded quite compactly. F.O.S. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Gregory Stark wrote: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As others have pointed out, CREATE UNIQUE INDEX i ON ((md5(column)) is a pretty good work-around. Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. Postgres's internal hash method is exposed for most data types as hashtext() hashfloat8(), hashint4(), etc. These functions were chosen for their lightweight design. Cryptographic security is important only if you're concerned with people being able to intentionally create collisions. In this scenario that's probably not a top threat. Conceivably someone could create a denial-of-service attack slowing down your server by causing your indexes to become unbalanced. But it would be fairly challenging to engineer. Return type of hash* functions is just 32 bits. I wonder if that's wide enough to avoid accidental collisions? Depends on the application of course... -- Heikki Linnakangas EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 12:21:03PM +0100, Francisco Olarte Sanz wrote: On Wednesday 20 February 2008, Gregory Stark wrote: Unless you need cryptographic security I would not suggest using MD5. MD5 is intentionally designed to take a substantial amount of CPU resources to calculate. I thought it was the exact opposite, quoting from RFC1321: And if you *do* need cryptographic security then don't use MD5, and consider using SHA-256 instead of SHA-1. See RFC 4270 for discussion. ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4270.txt -- Michael Fuhr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Return type of hash* functions is just 32 bits. I wonder if that's wide enough to avoid accidental collisions? Depends on the application of course... Oh, I missed that you were suggesting a UNIQUE index. That seems unsafe to me even for md5 or its ilk. But that would depend on the application too. md5 is designed to be a signature, remember? If there weren't a very high probability of its output being different for different inputs, it wouldn't be good for anything. The built-in hash functions definitely cannot be relied on to not have collisions, though. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
The following bug has been logged online: Bug reference: 3965 Logged by: Juho Saarikko Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PostgreSQL version: 8.3RC2 Operating system: Linux Description:UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values Details: It is impossible to add an UNIQUE constraint which includes columns with long values. The reason seems to be that UNIQUE is implemented using b-tree index, which cannot handle values longer than 8191 bytes. While I didn't test, I'd imagine that this would also mean that any attempt to insert such values to an already unique column would fail. It is propably impossible to fix this in a simple way, since it is an inherent result of the underlying storage specification rather than a mere programming error, so the documentation needs to be updated to warn about this. I suggest implementing unique hash indexes and automatically creating one (and turning the b-tree index into a non-unique one) when a large value is inserted to fix this. Alternatively, fix b-trees so they can handle large values; however, a hash index should be far more efficient for this specific case, since the size of a hash is independent of pre-hash data size. Exact error message: ** kuvat=# alter table pictures ADD constraint pic_unique unique (safe); NOTICE: 0: ALTER TABLE / ADD UNIQUE will create implicit index pic_unique for table pictures LOCATION: DefineIndex, indexcmds.c:434 ERROR: 54000: index row requires 47148 bytes, maximum size is 8191 LOCATION: index_form_tuple, indextuple.c:170 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Juho Saarikko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is propably impossible to fix this in a simple way, since it is an inherent result of the underlying storage specification rather than a mere programming error, so the documentation needs to be updated to warn about this. Point taken. I suggest implementing unique hash indexes and automatically creating one (and turning the b-tree index into a non-unique one) when a large value is inserted to fix this. Alternatively, fix b-trees so they can handle large values; however, a hash index should be far more efficient for this specific case, since the size of a hash is independent of pre-hash data size. With expression indexes you can do this yourself with something like CREATE INDEX pk_hash on tab ((hashtext(safe))) We can't do this automatically since it wouldn't enforce the UNIQUE constraint. Conceivably we could actually do something about that but there's nothing like that now. We have hash indexes too but in practice a btree over a hash seems to work just as well or better. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's PostGIS support! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Juho Saarikko wrote:
While I didn't test, I'd imagine that this would also mean that any attempt
to insert such values to an already unique column would fail.
Works here in 8.3:
test= create table test (x text unique);
NOTICE: CREATE TABLE / UNIQUE will create implicit index test_x_key
for table test
CREATE TABLE
test= insert into test values (repeat('a', 5));
INSERT 0 1
Even this works:
test= insert into test values (repeat('a', 5) || 'b');
I believe the index only indexes 8192 bytes but checks the heap for
longer values to check the full length.
--
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Juho Saarikko wrote:
While I didn't test, I'd imagine that this would also mean that any attempt
to insert such values to an already unique column would fail.
Works here in 8.3:
test= create table test (x text unique);
NOTICE: CREATE TABLE / UNIQUE will create implicit index test_x_key
for table test
CREATE TABLE
test= insert into test values (repeat('a', 5));
INSERT 0 1
That test only works because it's eminently compressible.
The short answer to this bug report is that we're not very concerned
about fixing this because there is seldom a good reason to have an
index (unique or not) on fields that can get so wide. As was already
noted, if you do need a uniqueness check you can easily make a 99.%
solution by indexing the md5 hash (or some similar digest) of the
column. It doesn't really seem worthwhile to expend development work
on something that would benefit so few people.
regards, tom lane
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Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Juho Saarikko wrote:
While I didn't test, I'd imagine that this would also mean that any attempt
to insert such values to an already unique column would fail.
Works here in 8.3:
test= insert into test values (repeat('a', 5) || 'b');
This only works because it gets toasted before being put in the index.
Since you've selected something real compressible, you can fit 50k chars
into it.
Kris Jurka
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Re: [BUGS] BUG #3965: UNIQUE constraint fails on long column values
Tom Lane wrote:
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Juho Saarikko wrote:
While I didn't test, I'd imagine that this would also mean that any attempt
to insert such values to an already unique column would fail.
Works here in 8.3:
test= create table test (x text unique);
NOTICE: CREATE TABLE / UNIQUE will create implicit index test_x_key for table
test
CREATE TABLE
test= insert into test values (repeat('a', 5));
INSERT 0 1
That test only works because it's eminently compressible.
The short answer to this bug report is that we're not very concerned
about fixing this because there is seldom a good reason to have an
index (unique or not) on fields that can get so wide. As was already
noted, if you do need a uniqueness check you can easily make a 99.%
solution by indexing the md5 hash (or some similar digest) of the
column. It doesn't really seem worthwhile to expend development work
on something that would benefit so few people.
regards, tom lane
But the documentation needs to be updated to mention this nonetheless.
It is a nasty surprise if it hits unawares.
Besides, it's not such an impossible scenario. I encountered this bug
when making an Usenet image archival system. Since the same images tend
to be reposted a lot, it makes sense to store them only once, and simply
reference the stored image from each context it was posted in. Currently
my program does the uniqueness constraining by itself; I was examining
having the database enforce it when I ran into this issue.
Such applications are not exactly rare: bayimg, img.google.com, etc. and
of course the innumerable Usenet archival sites could all conceivably
want to do something like this. So could any application which monitors
potentially repeating phenomena, for that matter. After all, saving a
single state of the system only once not only reduces the amount of data
stored, but could also help in actual analysis of it, since it becomes
trivial to recognize most and least often recurring states.
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