Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-24 Thread Geoff Winkless 
On 24 September 2015 at 11:33, Gavin Flower 
wrote:

> An example from a book on PostgreSQL server programming that I'm working
> through (Note that it is obviously awkward to write with gender pronouns
> when gender is irrelevant, note the "he she" in one place and "he/she" in
> another!):
>
>"If the user is a superuser, then they have permission to see the
>full query. If the user is a regular user, they will only see the
>full query for their queries."
>

Can I quietly suggest "​Users with superuser pemissions can always see the
full query​, while regular users will only see the full query for their own
queries."?

Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-24 Thread Gavin Flower 

On 24/09/15 22:41, Geoff Winkless wrote:
On 24 September 2015 at 11:33, Gavin Flower 
>wrote:


An example from a book on PostgreSQL server programming that I'm
working through (Note that it is obviously awkward to write with
gender pronouns when gender is irrelevant, note the "he she" in
one place and "he/she" in another!):

   "If the user is a superuser, then they have permission to see the
   full query. If the user is a regular user, they will only see the
   full query for their queries."

Can I quietly suggest "​Users with superuser pemissions can always see 
the full query​, while regular users will only see the full query for 
their own queries."?


Geoff

By all means say it quietly!  :-)

But I was simply trying to change it into Gender Appropriate form, 
rather improve it in other aspects.


However, your rephrasing is better still!


-Gavin


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-24 Thread Gavin Flower 


An example from a book on PostgreSQL server programming that I'm working 
through (Note that it is obviously awkward to write with gender pronouns 
when gender is irrelevant, note the "he she" in one place and "he/she" 
in another!):


   "If the user is a superuser, then he she has permission to see the
   full query. If the user is a regular user, he/she will only see the
   full query for his/her queries."

Written in 'Gender Appropriate' style (only refer to gender when it is 
relevant):


   "If the user is a superuser, then they have permission to see the
   full query. If the user is a regular user, they will only see the
   full query for their queries."

I think the second version is easier to read - and in this case, shorter!


-Gavin



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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Mark Dilger 

> On Sep 22, 2015, at 6:09 AM, Andrew Dunstan  wrote:
> 
> You are fighting a losing battle. Think of they/them/their/theirs as being 
> indefinitely gendered third person singular pronouns, as well as being third 
> person plural pronouns. Yes it's a relatively new usage, but I don't think 
> its at all unreasonable (speaking as someone who has been known to dislike 
> some new usages and neologisms). It's not at all sloppy. On the contrary, 
> it's quite deliberate. It's just not quite traditional. You need to get over 
> that.

The use of "their" as singular dates back at least as far as Chaucer in the 
14th century, prior to 
the use of "you" as a singular pronoun.  Militant grammarian schoolteachers may 
have told you
not to use it that way, but that doesn't change the history of its use.

Mark Dilger



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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Peter Geoghegan 
On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Andrew Dunstan  wrote:
> You can think that if you like, but it's not even remotely true. It's a
> deliberate choice to use a new, perfectly reasonable and now widely accepted
> style of which you disapprove, but it's not lazy.

It never occurred to me that this usage is even non-traditional. I am
a native English speaker born in Ireland in the 1980s.

-- 
Peter Geoghegan


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Geoff Winkless 
On 22 September 2015 at 21:22, David Steele  wrote:

> I think conversations like this are a part of why we have trouble
> attracting new contributors (of any gender) to the community.
>

​It's very clear that my use of the word (which I shan't make the mistake
of repeating!) is not acceptable to many on this list. I ​apologise
unreservedly to anyone I have unintentionally offended by the use of this
word, I shall not do so again; I would only say in my defence that I was
not intending to characterise all feminists in that way, rather to
distinguish the sort of feminists to whom the fact that a text refers to
"man"​ or "he" is offensive from the sort of feminists who I admire and
respect - those who fight for real equality, who use intelligent argument
and who have affected real change for good in my lifetime.

I can clearly see that my use of language has, ironically enough,
invalidated my argument somewhat. I have said my last on the subject​.

Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Adam Brightwell 
> I think conversations like this are a part of why we have trouble attracting
> new contributors (of any gender) to the community.

+1


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread David Steele 

On 9/22/15 11:00 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote:

On 09/22/2015 10:29 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:

​ That's your opinion; my opinion remains otherwise. It's not
"perfectly reasonable" to abuse the plural because some 1960s
feminazis either misunderstood or didn't like the fact that (because
of history) in English the gender-neutral singular happens to also be
the male singular.


Wow, 1960s feminazis, eh? I originally thought you were just a narrow
minded, pedantic and antiquated grammarian. Now I realize that's the
least of your troubles. Please take your misogyny elsewhere. I hear the
Rabid Puppies have openings.


I think conversations like this are a part of why we have trouble 
attracting new contributors (of any gender) to the community.


--
-David
da...@pgmasters.net


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Geoff Winkless 
On 22 September 2015 at 09:28, Albe Laurenz  wrote:

> Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Erik Rijkers  wrote:
> >> I think this compulsive 'he'-avoiding is making the text worse.
> >>
> >>
> >> -  environment variable); any user can make such a change for his
> session.
> >> +  environment variable); any user can make such a change for their
> session.
> >
> > -1. It seems fine to me.
>
> (Disclaimer: I am not a native speaker.)
>
> Using the pronoun of the third person plural as a replacement for "his or
> her"
> has become widely used, at least in the U.S., and the OED condones that
> use:
> http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/they
>
>
Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I agree that it
"condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current state of usage, they don't
act as arbiters of correctness. The abuse of "literally" as an emphasiser
(which usage is now listed in the OED) is a prime example.

As an Englishman ​I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our
American cousins might disagree though.

WRT the second, it probably doesn't help that "might not be the same as the
database user that is to be connect as" is incorrect anyway - it should
perhaps be "that is to be connect*ed *as" (although I still find the
construction clumsy).

Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Albe Laurenz 
Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Erik Rijkers  wrote:
>> I think this compulsive 'he'-avoiding is making the text worse.
>>
>>
>> -  environment variable); any user can make such a change for his 
>> session.
>> +  environment variable); any user can make such a change for their 
>> session.
> 
> -1. It seems fine to me.

(Disclaimer: I am not a native speaker.)

Using the pronoun of the third person plural as a replacement for "his or her"
has become widely used, at least in the U.S., and the OED condones that use:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/they

Do we want to have that everywhere?

Yours,
Laurenz Albe 

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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Geoff Winkless 
On 22 September 2015 at 14:09, Andrew Dunstan  wrote:

> You are fighting a losing battle. Think of they/them/their/theirs as being
> indefinitely gendered third person singular pronouns, as well as being
> third person plural pronouns. Yes it's a relatively new usage, but I don't
> think its at all unreasonable (speaking as someone who has been known to
> dislike some new usages and neologisms). It's not at all sloppy. On the
> contrary, it's quite deliberate. It's just not quite traditional.
>

​​It _is_ sloppy. It says "I can't be bothered to write a sentence that's
grammatically correct".
​

> You need to get over that.
>

I don't need to get over anything. If someone sends me a document that uses
"their" in a singular usage, I will think that person is lazy. That will
continue to be the case, whether people tell me that it's accepted usage or
not.

In much the same way, I know that I can safely discount the opinion of
anyone who uses "literally" to mean anything other than "literally"
 (
​similarly anyone who uses
"like" as a quotative)
​, even though both of those things are now in fairly common usage.​
​


> Your proposed style would make writing docs a lot harder,
>

I don't buy that at all. It takes a couple of seconds, if that, to come up
with something.


> forcing us to avoid use of the singular in cases where it is quite
> natural.
>

​Better than using the plural in the singular case.
​

> I'm strongly opposed to such a style rule.
>

​Meh. I don't really care how it's written, certainly not enough to make a
stand about it. I'd rather you guys concentrate on writing the brilliant
software than wasting time on stuff like this. I only replied because the
conversation popped up in my inbox and it seemed to be something on which
opinions were requested.

Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Gavin Flower 

On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:
On 22 September 2015 at 09:28, Albe Laurenz >wrote:


Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Erik Rijkers > wrote:
>> I think this compulsive 'he'-avoiding is making the text worse.
>>
>>
>> -  environment variable); any user can make such a change
for his session.
>> +  environment variable); any user can make such a change
for their session.
>
> -1. It seems fine to me.

(Disclaimer: I am not a native speaker.)

Using the pronoun of the third person plural as a replacement for
"his or her"
has become widely used, at least in the U.S., and the OED condones
that use:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/they


Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I agree 
that it "condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current state of 
usage, they don't act as arbiters of correctness. The abuse of 
"literally" as an emphasiser (which usage is now listed in the OED) is 
a prime example.


As an Englishman ​I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps 
our American cousins might disagree though.


WRT the second, it probably doesn't help that "might not be the same 
as the database user that is to be connect as" is incorrect anyway - 
it should perhaps be "that is to be connect*ed *as" (although I still 
find the construction clumsy).


Geoff

I am an Englishman.

I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy & there is 
no point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!


Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is 
ambiguous - so a few people fit into neither the male nor the female 
category (depending on precise definitions, about 0.5%)!



Cheers,
Gavin



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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Geoff Winkless 
On 22 September 2015 at 10:52, Gavin Flower 
wrote:

> On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:
>
>> ​​
>> Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I agree that
>> it "condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current state of usage, they
>> don't act as arbiters of correctness. The abuse of "literally" as an
>> emphasiser (which usage is now listed in the OED) is a prime example.
>>
>> I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our American cousins
>> might disagree though.
>>
>> I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy & there is
> no point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!
>

I agree in that I prefer "their" in informal speech; however in a formal
document I would find it sloppy.​ I don't think "his or her" is inherently
clumsy; m
aybe I'm just showing my age.​

Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is ambiguous -
> so a few people fit into neither the male nor the female category
> (depending on precise definitions, about 0.5%)!
>

My understanding is that most intersex (and certainly all trans) people
would identify with one or the other, and even those who don't select
exclusively identify with a mix of both (and would therefore still be
covered by "his or her", no?) although I don't pretend to be an expert.

Perhaps it would be easier to avoid the controversy by actually rewording
into the plural, where possible?

So

"any user can make such a change for his session."

becomes

"Users can make such a change for their individual sessions"

or similar?

Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Bill Moran 
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:17:54 +0100
Geoff Winkless  wrote:

> On 22 September 2015 at 10:52, Gavin Flower 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:
> >> ??
> >> Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ?I'm not so sure I agree that
> >> it "condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current state of usage, they
> >> don't act as arbiters of correctness. The abuse of "literally" as an
> >> emphasiser (which usage is now listed in the OED) is a prime example.
> >>
> >> I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our American cousins
> >> might disagree though.
> >>
> >> I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy & there is
> > no point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!
> 
> I agree in that I prefer "their" in informal speech; however in a formal
> document I would find it sloppy.? I don't think "his or her" is inherently
> clumsy; m
> aybe I'm just showing my age.?
> 
> Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is ambiguous -
> > so a few people fit into neither the male nor the female category
> > (depending on precise definitions, about 0.5%)!
> 
> My understanding is that most intersex (and certainly all trans) people
> would identify with one or the other, and even those who don't select
> exclusively identify with a mix of both (and would therefore still be
> covered by "his or her", no?) although I don't pretend to be an expert.
> 
> Perhaps it would be easier to avoid the controversy by actually rewording
> into the plural, where possible?
> 
> So
> 
> "any user can make such a change for his session."
> 
> becomes
> 
> "Users can make such a change for their individual sessions"
> 
> or similar?

+1

As an American/native English speaker, I find the use of the plural pronoun
in combination with a singular noun (which is not grammatically correct)
in formal writing to be sloppy and jarring to read. The change you suggest
above reads more professionally while still avoiding offending anyone.

-- 
Bill Moran


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Wolfgang Wilhelm 
Hello all,

I'm a non-native speaker and to my shame not very good in english at all. So 
just my 2c on the topic:

"Users can make such a change for their individual sessions" is for me 
perfectly understandable.
"any user can make such a change for their session" is for me a mixture of a 
singular and a plural form and difficult to understand whether this is just a 
spelling error (is it individual sessions?) or just another gap in my 
knowledge. From my point of view the documentation is not just for english 
native speakers but for all the ones which don't have a translation to their 
language and as such one shouldn't look at the newest trends in "correctness".

RegardsWolfgang



 Geoff Winkless  schrieb am 12:18 Dienstag, 
22.September 2015:
   

 On 22 September 2015 at 10:52, Gavin Flower  
wrote:

On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:

​​Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I agree that it 
"condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current state of usage, they don't act 
as arbiters of correctness. The abuse of "literally" as an emphasiser (which 
usage is now listed in the OED) is a prime example.

I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our American cousins might 
disagree though.




I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy & there is no 
point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!


I agree in that I prefer "their" in informal speech; however in a formal 
document I would find it sloppy.​ I don't think "his or her" is inherently 
clumsy; maybe I'm just showing my age.​

Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is ambiguous - so 
a few people fit into neither the male nor the female category (depending on 
precise definitions, about 0.5%)!


My understanding is that most intersex (and certainly all trans) people would 
identify with one or the other, and even those who don't select exclusively 
identify with a mix of both (and would therefore still be covered by "his or 
her", no?) although I don't pretend to be an expert.
Perhaps it would be easier to avoid the controversy by actually rewording into 
the plural, where possible?
So
"any user can make such a change for his session."

becomes
"Users can make such a change for their individual sessions"
or similar?
Geoff

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Gavin Flower 

On 22/09/15 22:17, Geoff Winkless wrote:
On 22 September 2015 at 10:52, Gavin Flower 
>wrote:


On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:

​ ​
Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I
agree that it "condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current
state of usage, they don't act as arbiters of correctness. The
abuse of "literally" as an emphasiser (which usage is now
listed in the OED) is a prime example.

I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our American
cousins might disagree though.

I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy &
there is no point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!


I agree in that I prefer "their" in informal speech; however in a 
formal document I would find it sloppy.​ I don't think "his or her" is 
inherently clumsy; m

aybe I'm just showing my age.​

Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is
ambiguous - so a few people fit into neither the male nor the
female category (depending on precise definitions, about 0.5%)!


My understanding is that most intersex (and certainly all trans) 
people would identify with one or the other, and even those who don't 
select exclusively identify with a mix of both (and would therefore 
still be covered by "his or her", no?) although I don't pretend to be 
an expert.


Perhaps it would be easier to avoid the controversy by actually 
rewording into the plural, where possible?


So

"any user can make such a change for his session."

becomes

"Users can make such a change for their individual sessions"

or similar?

Geoff
To me, the key things is NOT to specify gender, unless it is relevant - 
and I don't think gender is relevant in describing how to use a database.


I was using "Gender Appropriate" language long before the Politically 
Correct craze started (over 50 years ago)!  I was told references to 
"he" in rules included females, which I thought was daft!



Cheers,
Gavin


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan 



On 09/22/2015 09:25 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:
 If someone sends me a document that uses "their" in a singular usage, 
I will think that person is lazy. That will continue to be the case, 
whether people tell me that it's accepted usage or not.



You can think that if you like, but it's not even remotely true. It's a 
deliberate choice to use a new, perfectly reasonable and now widely 
accepted style of which you disapprove, but it's not lazy.



cheers

andrew


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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan 



On 09/22/2015 10:29 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:
Oh, good! We're actually going to have this argument? Even though I 
said I don't care what you do?


On 22 September 2015 at 15:11, Andrew Dunstan > wrote:


On 09/22/2015 09:25 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:

 If someone sends me a document that uses "their" in a
singular usage, I will think that person is lazy. That will
continue to be the case, whether people tell me that it's
accepted usage or not.


You can think that if you like,


​Thanks!​ That's a great relief to me, as I'm sure you can imagine.

but it's not even remotely true. 



​ You just stated that the reason you don't want to use the plural 
form I suggested is because it's too hard/time-consuming. That does 
suggest you accept that it's a valid solution but you're too lazy to 
use it.​


It's a deliberate choice to use a new, perfectly reasonable and
now widely accepted style of which you disapprove, but it's not lazy.


​ That's your opinion; my opinion remains otherwise. It's not 
"perfectly reasonable" to abuse the plural because some 1960s 
feminazis either misunderstood or didn't like the fact that (because 
of history) in English the gender-neutral singular happens to also be 
the male singular.


Happily for me, I can continue to write documents in a grammatically 
correct way, and no-one will read them and think I'm a grammar-nazi 
(or obstinate, or old-fashioned or whatever) because unless they're 
specifically looking for it no-one will notice that I'm avoiding the 
contentious usage altogether. On the other hand, there _will_ be a 
(perhaps significant) proportion of people who read your documents and 
think that you're incapable of writing a grammatically correct sentence.






Wow, 1960s feminazis, eh? I originally thought you were just a narrow 
minded, pedantic and antiquated grammarian. Now I realize that's the 
least of your troubles. Please take your misogyny elsewhere. I hear the 
Rabid Puppies have openings.


cheers

andrew





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Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan 



On 09/22/2015 12:32 AM, Erik Rijkers wrote:



-   might not be the same as the database user he needs to connect as.
+   might not be the same as the database user that is to be connect as.


It is not an improvement.  I would like to see this change rolled back.





I agree this is awkward.

I would use "might not be the same as the database user they need to 
connect as." Let's be consistent about the use of they/them/their/theirs 
as indefinitely gendered singular pronouns.


cheers

andrew



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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan 



On 09/22/2015 06:17 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:
On 22 September 2015 at 10:52, Gavin Flower 
>wrote:


On 22/09/15 21:33, Geoff Winkless wrote:

​ ​
Without wanting to get into a grammar war, ​I'm not so sure I
agree that it "condones" it. Dictionaries reflect the current
state of usage, they don't act as arbiters of correctness. The
abuse of "literally" as an emphasiser (which usage is now
listed in the OED) is a prime example.

I would prefer "his or her" over "their". Perhaps our American
cousins might disagree though.

I prefer "their" rather than "his or her", it is less clumsy &
there is no point in specifying gender unless it is relevant!


I agree in that I prefer "their" in informal speech; however in a 
formal document I would find it sloppy.​ I don't think "his or her" is 
inherently clumsy; m

aybe I'm just showing my age.​

Besides, some people are neither, or their biological gender is
ambiguous - so a few people fit into neither the male nor the
female category (depending on precise definitions, about 0.5%)!


My understanding is that most intersex (and certainly all trans) 
people would identify with one or the other, and even those who don't 
select exclusively identify with a mix of both (and would therefore 
still be covered by "his or her", no?) although I don't pretend to be 
an expert.


Perhaps it would be easier to avoid the controversy by actually 
rewording into the plural, where possible?


So

"any user can make such a change for his session."

becomes

"Users can make such a change for their individual sessions"

or similar?





You are fighting a losing battle. Think of they/them/their/theirs as 
being indefinitely gendered third person singular pronouns, as well as 
being third person plural pronouns. Yes it's a relatively new usage, but 
I don't think its at all unreasonable (speaking as someone who has been 
known to dislike some new usages and neologisms). It's not at all 
sloppy. On the contrary, it's quite deliberate. It's just not quite 
traditional. You need to get over that.


Your proposed style would make writing docs a lot harder, forcing us to 
avoid use of the singular in cases where it is quite natural. I'm 
strongly opposed to such a style rule.


cheers

andrew



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Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-22 Thread Geoff Winkless 
Oh, good! We're actually going to have this argument? Even though I said I
don't care what you do?

On 22 September 2015 at 15:11, Andrew Dunstan  wrote:

> On 09/22/2015 09:25 AM, Geoff Winkless wrote:
>
>>  If someone sends me a document that uses "their" in a singular usage, I
>> will think that person is lazy. That will continue to be the case, whether
>> people tell me that it's accepted usage or not.
>
>
> You can think that if you like,


​Thanks!​ That's a great relief to me, as I'm sure you can imagine.


> but it's not even remotely true.


​You just stated that the reason you don't want to use the plural form I
suggested is because it's too hard/time-consuming. That does suggest you
accept that it's a valid solution but you're too lazy to use it.​


> It's a deliberate choice to use a new, perfectly reasonable and now widely
> accepted style of which you disapprove, but it's not lazy.
>

​That's your opinion; my opinion remains otherwise. It's not "perfectly
reasonable" to abuse the plural because some 1960s feminazis either
misunderstood or didn't like the fact that (because of history) in English
the gender-neutral singular happens to also be the male singular.

Happily for me, I can continue to write documents in a grammatically
correct way, and no-one will read them and think I'm a grammar-nazi (or
obstinate, or old-fashioned or whatever) because unless they're
specifically looking for it no-one will notice that I'm avoiding the
contentious usage altogether. On the other hand, there _will_ be a (perhaps
significant) proportion of people who read your documents and think that
you're incapable of writing a grammatically correct sentence.

Geoff

Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-21 Thread Erik Rijkers 

On 2015-09-22 04:59, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Use gender-neutral language in documentation

Based on patch by Thomas Munro , 
although

I rephrased most of the initial work.

Branch
--
master

Details
---
http://git.postgresql.org/pg/commitdiff/741ccd5015f82e31f80cdc5d2ae81263ea92d794




I think this compulsive 'he'-avoiding is making the text worse.


-  environment variable); any user can make such a change for his 
session.
+  environment variable); any user can make such a change for their 
session.


Yuck.  even worse:

-   might not be the same as the database user he needs to connect as.
+   might not be the same as the database user that is to be connect as.


It is not an improvement.  I would like to see this change rolled back.


thanks,

Erik Rijkers



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[COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-21 Thread Peter Eisentraut 
Use gender-neutral language in documentation

Based on patch by Thomas Munro , although
I rephrased most of the initial work.

Branch
--
master

Details
---
http://git.postgresql.org/pg/commitdiff/741ccd5015f82e31f80cdc5d2ae81263ea92d794

Modified Files
--
doc/src/sgml/catalogs.sgml|4 +--
doc/src/sgml/client-auth.sgml |6 ++--
doc/src/sgml/ddl.sgml |6 ++--
doc/src/sgml/manage-ag.sgml   |6 ++--
doc/src/sgml/nls.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/plpgsql.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/alter_user_mapping.sgml  |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/create_schema.sgml   |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/create_user_mapping.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/drop_schema.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/drop_user_mapping.sgml   |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/grant.sgml   |   14 
doc/src/sgml/ref/revoke.sgml  |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/ref/set_role.sgml|2 +-
doc/src/sgml/rules.sgml   |   50 ++---
doc/src/sgml/sepgsql.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/sslinfo.sgml |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/start.sgml   |3 +-
doc/src/sgml/user-manag.sgml  |2 +-
doc/src/sgml/xplang.sgml  |2 +-
20 files changed, 57 insertions(+), 58 deletions(-)


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Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Use gender-neutral language in documentation

2015-09-21 Thread Peter Geoghegan 
On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Erik Rijkers  wrote:
> I think this compulsive 'he'-avoiding is making the text worse.
>
>
> -  environment variable); any user can make such a change for his
> session.
> +  environment variable); any user can make such a change for their
> session.

-1. It seems fine to me.

> Yuck.  even worse:
>
> -   might not be the same as the database user he needs to connect as.
> +   might not be the same as the database user that is to be connect as.
>
>
> It is not an improvement.  I would like to see this change rolled back.

I think that this should be reworded, since there is a grammatical
error as things stand. I suggest the whole sentence be modified to
read:

When using an external authentication system such as Ident or GSSAPI,
the name of the operating system user that initiated the connection
might not be the same as the intended corresponding database user.

-- 
Peter Geoghegan


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