Re: Users/Roles do not align.
Based on this, I believe Section 5.9 should read:
`A PostgreSQL database cluster contains one or more named databases. Roles
are shared across the entire cluster, but no other data is shared across
databases. Any given client connection to the server can access only the
data in a single database, the one specified in the connection request.`
imo the following is a more precise wording:
'A cluster contains three or more named databases ('template0',
'template1', 'postgres', ...). Roles, which are users or groups, see
Chapter 21, - as well as database names and tablespace definitions - are
shared across the entire cluster. No other data is shared across
databases or schemas. Any given client connection to the server can
access only the data in a single database, the one specified in the
connection request. If it has the necessary privileges, the connection
can access all schemas within this database.'
And the last sentence of the paragraph behind 'Note' shall be extended,
because schemas are rigidly separated from each other - only the access
to different schemas is easily done from a single connection.
'Unlike _access to_ databases, _access to_ schemas is not rigidly
separated: a _connection_ can access objects in any of the schemas in
the database they are connected to, if they have privileges to do so.'
J. Purtz
Re: Documentation: 21.5. Default Roles
On 2020-Feb-03, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > So, if there was something done to redirect people from specific > deprecated documentation pages historically, it was before my time. Most > of the redirects have been as general purposes ones (e.g. /docs/12), the > rules we put in for getting rid of "static", and the release notes, > which still receives some negative feedback towards it for different > reasons (though I think overall the effort was well-received). Anyway, > if we had a redirect in place, I'd want us to do it well. I +1 changing the title and +1 having the redirect. That said, I think people landing in a page titled "predefined roles" when they're looking for a page titled "default roles" would be quite confused for a while and perhaps continue to search for the page they think they're looking for. (I know, it has happened to me.) I suggest we add a very short paragraph --maybe a -- to the effect that feature-X used to be called feature-Y, immediately following the section title. -- Álvaro Herrerahttps://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Re: Documentation: 21.5. Default Roles
On 2/3/20 3:42 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 07:12:08PM -0500, R Ransbottom wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 12:23:48PM +0900, Ian Barwick wrote: >>> On 2020/01/19 12:56, R Ransbottom wrote: >> I would hope to find correct documentation somewhere--that somewhere >> >>> Indeed, however it's important that the PostgreSQL documentation remains >>> stable for released versions. >> >>> As-is, the current patch set would result in the term "default role(s)" >>> disappearing from the documentation in the next minor release, which is >>> bound to cause confusion for anyone searching the documentation for the >>> term they're familiar with (unless they happen to be reading this thread >>> or following the git commit log). Cue cries of "OMG Postgres removed a >>> feature in a minor release!!!?!!". >> >>> And as Stephen mentions, it will break a lot of secondary documentation - >>> not just blogs but things like internal training materials etc. >> >>> If this change is made (which I'm personally not against), then it should be >>> only from PostgreSQL 13. For 9.6 ~ 12, IMHO it would be better to tweak the >>> existing documentation to somehow mention that "default roles" should be >>> thought of as "prefined roles", and note they will be called this from Pg13. >> >> Ian, agreed modulo 13. >> >> The current section(s) could forward readers to a revised section. The >> DEFAULT_ROLE_* stuff could carry two names to allow a comprehensive fix >> in 12.X. That could allow the deprecation and misinformation to end one >> EoL sooner. > > With minor releases coming next week, and no movement on doing web > redirects, and no clarity on what this is missing even in master, I will > revert this patch in all branches soon. I think everyone agrees the new > documentation title is better, but we don't want to break things or add > inconsistency to do it. Sorry, I missed the original comment on the "web redirects" So, if there was something done to redirect people from specific deprecated documentation pages historically, it was before my time. Most of the redirects have been as general purposes ones (e.g. /docs/12), the rules we put in for getting rid of "static", and the release notes, which still receives some negative feedback towards it for different reasons (though I think overall the effort was well-received). Anyway, if we had a redirect in place, I'd want us to do it well. I don't know if it's possible...but if we were able to make a change in the doc source to say "this page is now this page" either as a standalone page, or generated a HTML page that automatically redirects, that may solve the issue. Or if we can have a "ghost page" available with the old link, perhaps we can put something into pgweb to automatically redirect to the new page. Other than that, the only quick solution I see is to hardcode it, which I'm not a fan of. So from a pgweb standpoint, the safe thing would be to do nothing with the URL. If you could keep the URL but change the page title, perhaps that would suffice? Jonathan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Documentation: 21.5. Default Roles
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 07:12:08PM -0500, R Ransbottom wrote: > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 12:23:48PM +0900, Ian Barwick wrote: > > On 2020/01/19 12:56, R Ransbottom wrote: > > > > I would hope to find correct documentation somewhere--that somewhere > > > Indeed, however it's important that the PostgreSQL documentation remains > > stable for released versions. > > > As-is, the current patch set would result in the term "default role(s)" > > disappearing from the documentation in the next minor release, which is > > bound to cause confusion for anyone searching the documentation for the > > term they're familiar with (unless they happen to be reading this thread > > or following the git commit log). Cue cries of "OMG Postgres removed a > > feature in a minor release!!!?!!". > > > And as Stephen mentions, it will break a lot of secondary documentation - > > not just blogs but things like internal training materials etc. > > > If this change is made (which I'm personally not against), then it should be > > only from PostgreSQL 13. For 9.6 ~ 12, IMHO it would be better to tweak the > > existing documentation to somehow mention that "default roles" should be > > thought of as "prefined roles", and note they will be called this from Pg13. > > Ian, agreed modulo 13. > > The current section(s) could forward readers to a revised section. The > DEFAULT_ROLE_* stuff could carry two names to allow a comprehensive fix > in 12.X. That could allow the deprecation and misinformation to end one > EoL sooner. With minor releases coming next week, and no movement on doing web redirects, and no clarity on what this is missing even in master, I will revert this patch in all branches soon. I think everyone agrees the new documentation title is better, but we don't want to break things or add inconsistency to do it. -- Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. + + Ancient Roman grave inscription +
Users/Roles do not align.
The following documentation comment has been logged on the website: Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/12/ddl-schemas.html Description: According to Section 5.9. Schemas: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/12/ddl-schemas.html `A PostgreSQL database cluster contains one or more named databases. Users and groups of users are shared across the entire cluster, but no other data is shared across databases. Any given client connection to the server can access only the data in a single database, the one specified in the connection request.` According to Chapter 21. Database Roles: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/12/user-manag.html `In PostgreSQL versions before 8.1, users and groups were distinct kinds of entities, but now there are only roles. Any role can act as a user, a group, or both.` Based on this, I believe Section 5.9 should read: `A PostgreSQL database cluster contains one or more named databases. Roles are shared across the entire cluster, but no other data is shared across databases. Any given client connection to the server can access only the data in a single database, the one specified in the connection request.`
