[GENERAL] Re: [TESTERS] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

Josh,

sorry for multiple posting.

This is the description of this mailing list:
"General discussion area for users. Apart from compile, acceptance test, and
bug problems, most new users will probably only be interested in this
mailing list (unless they want to contribute to development or
documentation). All non-bug related questions regarding PostgreSQL's version
of SQL, and all installation related questions that do not involve bugs or
failed compiles, should be restricted to this area. Please note that many of
the developers monitor this area."

So, in my opinion asking if somebody knows a hosting service where
PostgreSQL can be used for free is not inappropriate. But if you consider it
inappropriate and you are in a position to cancel my posts you have to
cancel them without any hesitation asap.

Fernando

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Joshua Berkus  wrote:

> Fernando,
>
> You just posted your question to multiple innappropriate mailing lists.
>  Please do not do that again.
>
> --Josh Berkus
>

Re: [GENERAL] Re: [TESTERS] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM, David Johnston  wrote:

>
> > this is very difficult, but it is exactly what I am doing in environments
> different from this one. Even if this risks to be considered (not so
> positively) as a request of charity... :-)
>
> At that point, unless you have confidentiality requirements, why not just
> tell everyone what it is you are working on and see if anyone responds
> favorably?  It woul normally be deemed off-topic but at this point one more
> non-Postgresql post isn't going to make a big difference on this thread.
>
> Fundraising for a cause is quite a bit different than asking for a personal
> gift and it sound like your request falls into the former category.
>

Dear David, thank you for your post. I have not posted exactly a
non-PostgreSQL post, in fact I asked for information about possible services
of free hosting platforms with PostgreSQL installed. I repeat that I didn't
ask for a hosting platform but for information about possible inherent free
services.

The item of research focuses on the remote detection of events of health
hazard, like in particular the cardiac atrial fibrillation, by wireless
sensors installed on the body of the patient and a phone that forwards the
data towards the hosting. If somebody can be interested I pray him to ask me
for more information writing just to my email address. Thanks a lot!

>
> David J.

[GENERAL] Re: [TESTERS] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Craig Ringer  wrote:

> On 6/08/2011 4:02 PM, Fernando Pianegiani wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK,
>> Tomcat (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where
>> they can be installed from scratch?
>>
>
> About the only hope I know of is hub.org .
>
> http://archives.postgresql.**org/pgsql-announce/2010-01/**msg0.php<http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-announce/2010-01/msg0.php>
>
> They're offering one-year free VPS services at certain times of year.
>
>
> Thanks a lot!


> By the way, one of the reasons you're not finding much free hosting for
> PostgreSQL is that it takes a fair bit of work to run Pg multi-tenanted.
> Your additional requirement for Java and Tomcat means you're certain to be
> stuck with a virtual private server (VPS) or a BSD Jail based host. I'll be
> very surprised if you can find any offerings that are free (as opposed to
> "free trial") in that vein, but I wish you luck in your search.
>

I see...

>
> What you *might* be able to do is find sponsorship for hosting or find
> someone who'll grant you free hosting for your project because they think
> that particular project is worthwhile and important. That'll depend a great
> deal on what you're trying to host and what the likely load will be.
>

this is very difficult, but it is exactly what I am doing in environments
different from this one. Even if this risks to be considered (not so
positively) as a request of charity... :-)

>
> --
> Craig Ringer
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:22 AM, John R Pierce  wrote:

> On 08/07/11 1:46 AM, Fernando Pianegiani wrote:
>
>> how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services
>> millions of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I
>> think that what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of
>> remote hardware where to have free software installed. The difference in my
>> opinion is in the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free
>> operating system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance.
>>
>
> that stuff is usually advertising supported.   many of those 'free' file
> hosting systems charge to let people download at reasonable speeds, and make
> the download process painful for freeloaders.  or, like Google Picasa's
> image service, they charge if you use more than a couple gigabytes.how
> do you attach advertising to a user programmed tomcat server with a postgres
> database?


This is an interesting question for people who want to develop business in
the field of the cloud.

>
>
>
>
> --
> john r pierceN 37, W 122
> santa cruz ca mid-left coast
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

John, Craig,

how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services millions
of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I think that
what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of remote hardware
where to have free software installed. The difference in my opinion is in
the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free operating
system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:56 AM, John R Pierce  wrote:
On 08/06/11 4:40 PM, David Johnston wrote:

> The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company
> willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free.
>  And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like
> PostgreSQL.  A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it
> compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back
> into the original.
>

indeed, especially a service like hosting that has significant ongoing hard
costs involved...  a colocated server requires power, air conditioning,
network traffic and transit fees, management, physical security, and the
cost of the hardware itself, which has typically a 3-5 year lifespan (in 3
years, newer hardware can do so much more work its often not cost effective
to keep the old hardware online).

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Craig Ringer  wrote:

> On 7/08/2011 1:08 AM, Scott Ribe wrote:
>
>> After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the
>>> hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if
>>> of different nature).
>>>
>> While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be.
>>
>>  A bit OT, but
>
> Arduino is not so much a "will" as an "is". It's in wide-spread use and has
> even been adopted for the base of the new Android peripheral development
> system - the Android Open Accessory Development Kit.
>
> http://developer.android.com/**guide/topics/usb/adk.html
>
> I struggle to see any connection between Arduino and PostgreSQL, though.
> They're very different  kinds of free/open source, as software "is" its
> specification and can be distributed at no cost, but you can't just download
> a hardware device and use it.
>
> --
> Craig Ringer
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:40 AM, David Johnston  wrote:

> On Aug 6, 2011, at 18:03, Stuart McGraw  wrote:
>
> My point, while coming across a little harsh apparently, is that emphasis
> on requiring a free service projects a certain personality.
>

If a good service is free, like PostgreSQL is, the emphasis of using it is
justified if you do good things by it. The same is valide for free hardware,
but as 'we' know for the hardware is not exactly the same. However, because
free file hosting exists and because my funded project ended and I cannot
continue to economically support it with other incomes, I tried to ask if
the use of a free hosting platform where to install free software (java,
PostgreSQL, etc.) could exist.

Even just adding "or low cost" would have helped.
>

Unfortunately, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. I usually ask
questions on the basis of my requirements and knowledge. Then, if you want,
you can answer with possible comments or not or star a discussion. And
finally, I would thank you in any case for your attention and your time.


> That said, it wasn't the original request the got me to respond but the
> part about needing to eat.


I have never talked about the needing to eat!! I just wrote that my project
ended, but fortunately the life of a researcher/engineer is not made just of
funded projects. In any case thanks for your concern. :-)


> I know "we" started it with the comment about why there are no free hosting
> providers and I am just as guilty for adding to it.
>
> In all, though, I didn't mean to say anyone IS a free-loader only that you
> can be perceived as one and such perceptions can suppress otherwise useful
> responses.  In the end everyone free-loads and is taken advantage of at the
> same time in many different areas; and any judgements should be made only
> when many facts are known (if ever).
>

Sorry if I criticized the "free" model as somebody has defined it and as
probably it is. I explained my ideas in my previous email and I don't want
to bore you repeating again my point of view.

>
> I apologize for my tone earlier but to be honest this is probably one of
> the calmest flame-wars I've ever seen :)
>

I apologize too. :-) Peace done!

>
> The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company
> willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free.
>  And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like
> PostgreSQL.  A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it
> compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back
> into the original.
>
> But, there are a number of companies that do what you need for a price.  If
> you feel what you are doing is important it should at least be worth your
> time to talk to these companies and see what arrangements can be made
> instead of dismissing them outright because they charge for their services.
>  You may find someone inclined to take on pro-bono work for a good cause;
> especially if your needs are modest.  In short, ask for everything and then
> perform the filtering yourself instead of asking others to filter for you -
> only you know what your actual situation is which makes anyone else's
> filtering only an uninformed guess.
>

As answered before, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. :-) I already
filtered any "no free" solutions for valid reasons. What you suggest would
have caused just a great loss of time for me and for the hosting providers.

>
> David J.
>
>
> > Hello Fernando,
> >
> > I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got
> > here.  The thing that has always appealed to me about the
> > free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and
> > mutual help that many involved exhibit.
> >
> > You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who
> > call someone a "freeloader" when they themselves use free
> > software in profit making ventures without sharing their
> > profits with the software's developers and contributors.
> >
> > Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively
> > to your post.  I wish you success in your search.
> >
> > --
> > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> > To make changes to your subscription:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

It is not my intention to continue this discussion within this mailing list,
so please stop to reply or reply just to me. Otherwise I have to answer
again to the community and I don't want to do it. :-)

Dear Chris, thank you. I will answer to you in the following.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Chris Travers wrote:

> I hope I am not feeding a troll here.
>
> The economic model behind PostgreSQL is a very good one.  Here is my
> understanding of it.  Various people in the community cooperate but
> they also sell products (EnterpriseDB, Green Plum) based on the
> codebase along with their proprietary enhancements.  Others sell
> services including hosting and consulting.  In general anyone who does
> not share everything practical ends up paying for it later in terms of
> internal maintenance overhead.  Everyone benefits.
>

> The wonderful thing about open source software is that every one of us
> owns the means of production not in a collective or a government but
> individually.  I can take PostgreSQL and make a living off it.  You
> can take my program that runs on it (LedgerSMB) and make a living off
> it.  We can take these pieces of software and use them to provide
> services to others. The barrier to getting into business for yourself
> is very low.
>

It's impossible that everyone benefits proportionally to his own effort of
development. In this sense the model is not "right". But this is the rule of
the open source model and it is OK because the rule is accepted by all the
developers.
>
>
> In my view, if you don't want to pay for hosting and you need all
> these features, you probably don't really need hosting.  The only way
> you will get hosting is if you convince someone that taking you on
> benefits them more than the costs (either by paying them or making the
> case that it's a good business idea to take you on), or  the
> wonderful thing about free and unfettered access to the means of
> production --- you can set up your own system with all these
> technologies.  That's the free hosting solution that might work best
> for you.
>

Simply I don't know how the business works for the hosting platforms. Or
better, now I have understood it. :-) For this reason I asked my question. I
supposed that it was a business similar to the one existing for "File
Hosting".

Thank you for your support. :-)

Fernando


> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

ting.  Funds will get you both physical (hosting) services and access to
> expertise.
>
> That is all the personal/professional advice I'm am willing to give right
> now; I need to go fix myself lunch.
>
> David J.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2011, at 9:49, Fernando Pianegiani <
> fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thak you Antonio.
>
> After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the
> hardware (this is just a first example <http://www.arduino.cc/>
> http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature).
>
> I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform
> after that my funded research project ended.
>
> Fernando
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto 
> <
> antonio.gomez.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well,
>>
>> I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking
>> for does not exist.
>> This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are
>> expensive. They
>> need to eat too.
>>
>> And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put
>> anything meaningful on it,
>> because they surely will go out of business soon.
>>
>> Antonio.
>>
>>
>> Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
>>> (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
>>> installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be
>>> directly accessible by my
>>> servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle.
>>>
>>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>>
>>> Kind regards.
>>>
>>> Fernando Pianegiani
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

Thak you Antonio.

After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the
hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of
different nature).

I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform
after that my funded research project ended.

Fernando

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto <
antonio.gomez.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well,
>
> I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking
> for does not exist.
> This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are
> expensive. They
> need to eat too.
>
> And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put
> anything meaningful on it,
> because they surely will go out of business soon.
>
> Antonio.
>
>
> Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef:
>
>  Hello,
>>
>> do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
>> (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
>> installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be
>> directly accessible by my
>> servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the middle.
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>> Fernando Pianegiani
>>
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

Exuse me, PostgreSQL is completely free, not MySQL.. :-D

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Fernando Pianegiani <
fernando.pianegi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> thank you for your answer. Sorry for my cross posting.
>
> Are you in any business about hosting platforms?? ;-)
>
> Don't forget that the Internet is free, that youtube is free and that this
> mailing list is free and that also MySQL is free. But, not all the services
> that appear free are really for free. Behind them there is for sure a
> business.
>
> Fernando
>
>
>
>> Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post
>> only to it.
>>
>> I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if
>> you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features
>> you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get
>> compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a
>> FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they
>> explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your
>> resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many
>> clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat,
>> PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general
>> your clients will not be happy.
>>
>> Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the
>> many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people
>> off.
>>
>> Allan.
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Allan Kamau  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani
>  > wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
> > (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can
> be
> > installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL
> be
> > directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in
> the
> > middle.
> >
> > Thank you very much in advance.
> >
> > Kind regards.
> >
> > Fernando Pianegiani
> >
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

Hello,

thank you for your answer. Sorry for my cross posting.

Are you in any business about hosting platforms?? ;-)

Don't forget that the Internet is free, that youtube is free and that this
mailing list is free and that also MySQL is free. But, not all the services
that appear free are really for free. Behind them there is for sure a
business.

Fernando


> Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post
> only to it.
>
> I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if
> you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features
> you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get
> compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a
> FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they
> explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your
> resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many
> clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat,
> PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general
> your clients will not be happy.
>
> Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the
> many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people
> off.
>
> Allan.
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>


On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Allan Kamau  wrote:
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
> (or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
> installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL
be
> directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in
the
> middle.
>
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Fernando Pianegiani
>

[GENERAL] FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

[Fernando Pianegiani]

Hello,

do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
(or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be
directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the
middle.

Thank you very much in advance.

Kind regards.

Fernando Pianegiani