[GENERAL] GUI
Hi All, My sincere apologies if this is not the right list. I want to build a GUI for postgres DB, is there any toolkit available which allows to whip up a GUI real fast? General features for the GUi are like select a file to upload, login for DB Thanks in advance. HD ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[GENERAL] GUI
I'm new working with posgres. Is there any GUI to posgresql? TIA Paulo ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
I prefer GTK, but your platform will be Windows or *NIXes? (If you choose Linux I will be very glad to help you) - Original Message - From: "Hrishikesh Deshmukh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 2:47 PM Subject: [GENERAL] GUI Hi All, My sincere apologies if this is not the right list. I want to build a GUI for postgres DB, is there any toolkit available which allows to whip up a GUI real fast? General features for the GUi are like select a file to upload, login for DB Thanks in advance. HD ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: Hi All, My sincere apologies if this is not the right list. I want to build a GUI for postgres DB, is there any toolkit available which allows to whip up a GUI real fast? General features for the GUi are like select a file to upload, login for DB A GUI for the web, MS-Windows, Mac, Linux or something else? -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 15:47 -0500, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: >Hi All, > >My sincere apologies if this is not the right list. >I want to build a GUI for postgres DB, is there any toolkit available >which allows to whip up a GUI real fast? General features for the GUi >are like select a file to upload, login for DB > >Thanks in advance. >HD > wxWidgets (formerly wxWindows) http://www.wxwidgets.org/ there is wxPython, wxRuby, wxEtc.. -Robby -- /*** * Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek * PLANET ARGON | www.planetargon.com * Portland, OR | [EMAIL PROTECTED] * 503.351.4730 | blog.planetargon.com * PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development * --- Now hosting Ruby on Rails Apps --- / ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
On 27 Feb 2005 at 15:47, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: > My sincere apologies if this is not the right list. > I want to build a GUI for postgres DB, is there any toolkit available > which allows to whip up a GUI real fast? General features for the GUi > are like select a file to upload, login for DB Have you seen pgAdmin (www.pgadmin.org)? --Ray. - Raymond O'Donnell http://www.galwaycathedral.org/recitals [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galway Cathedral Recitals - ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Hi All, I want to spend less time coding and more time running queries against the DB which i am building. What about QT from TrollTech!! Can that be used to whip up gui real fast! Dreamweaver? Hrishi On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:55:04 +, Richard Huxton wrote: > Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: > > A GUI for the web running on linux. > > Don't forget to CC: the mailing list too. I don't read this email > address very often - lots of spam. > > Your problem isn't a lack of choices, but rather too many. > > Perl has plenty of HTML templating systems from the simple > HTML::Template through to HTML::Mason - more of a website-building > system. For database access, DBI with DBD::Pg is the standard way to go. > CPAN is your friend here, of course. > > Python has its own set of modules. Start looking here: > http://www.python.org/moin/WebProgramming > http://www.python.org/topics/web/HTML.html > You might want to look at Zope as an application framework too. > > Ruby has many people who swear by it, and there's been a lot of fuss > recently over "Ruby on Rails" which is supposed to be a very fast > development setup > http://www.rubyonrails.org/ > > Java and its various servelet/jsp structures are too big a topic to > cover here. > > In addition, there are a lot of content-management systems and toolkits > that might be useful for you. Two worth looking at are Plone and Bricolage. > > HTH > -- > Richard Huxton > Archonet Ltd > ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
If you are into perl, you should definitely look at Class::DBI (http://www.class-dbi.com) which is freely available from CPAN (despite the .com site). It treats table rows as objects with methods. It can model foreign key relationships based entirely on the database schema (and entirely automatically). Then, there are simple extensions that add methods for generating an HTML form directly from the database, validate the resulting queries, etc. It can be a very fast way to develop a web-based application. Sean On Mar 1, 2005, at 9:07 AM, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: Hi All, I want to spend less time coding and more time running queries against the DB which i am building. What about QT from TrollTech!! Can that be used to whip up gui real fast! Dreamweaver? Hrishi On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:55:04 +, Richard Huxton wrote: Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: A GUI for the web running on linux. Don't forget to CC: the mailing list too. I don't read this email address very often - lots of spam. Your problem isn't a lack of choices, but rather too many. Perl has plenty of HTML templating systems from the simple HTML::Template through to HTML::Mason - more of a website-building system. For database access, DBI with DBD::Pg is the standard way to go. CPAN is your friend here, of course. Python has its own set of modules. Start looking here: http://www.python.org/moin/WebProgramming http://www.python.org/topics/web/HTML.html You might want to look at Zope as an application framework too. Ruby has many people who swear by it, and there's been a lot of fuss recently over "Ruby on Rails" which is supposed to be a very fast development setup http://www.rubyonrails.org/ Java and its various servelet/jsp structures are too big a topic to cover here. In addition, there are a lot of content-management systems and toolkits that might be useful for you. Two worth looking at are Plone and Bricolage. HTH -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: Hi All, I want to spend less time coding and more time running queries against the DB which i am building. What about QT from TrollTech!! Can that be used to whip up gui real fast! Dreamweaver? Neither of these are really application tools. Give "Ruby on Rails" a look - that's probably about as fast as you're going to get for simple tools. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:07 am, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: > Hi All, > > I want to spend less time coding and more time running queries against > the DB which i am building. What about QT from TrollTech!! Can that be > used to whip up gui real fast! Dreamweaver? > > Hrishi You could use gnue-designer and gnue-forms from www.gnuenterprise.org. It lets you paint the input/query forms by drag and drop fields from the db. You can create multi table master/details forms from existing tables in seconds that give you insert, update, delete, query capabilities. You can assign triggers to forms to do custom processing. And if you need more customization you can write python scripts using the gnue-common library which is the core of our other tools. I've done that to create custom apps that tie our database access system to a ui built with pyqt and qt-designer. Several of the developers hang out in #gnuenterprise on irc.freenode.net if you'd like more info. Take Care, James ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Hi All, A question about "joins" i have 17 tables in my postgres-DB how does one perform a join on these many tables!!! :( Thanks, H On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:42:57 -0600, James Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:07 am, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I want to spend less time coding and more time running queries against > > the DB which i am building. What about QT from TrollTech!! Can that be > > used to whip up gui real fast! Dreamweaver? > > > > Hrishi > > You could use gnue-designer and gnue-forms from www.gnuenterprise.org. It > lets you paint the input/query forms by drag and drop fields from the db. > You can create multi table master/details forms from existing tables in > seconds that give you insert, update, delete, query capabilities. You can > assign triggers to forms to do custom processing. And if you need more > customization you can write python scripts using the gnue-common library > which is the core of our other tools. I've done that to create custom apps > that tie our database access system to a ui built with pyqt and qt-designer. > > Several of the developers hang out in #gnuenterprise on irc.freenode.net if > you'd like more info. > > Take Care, > James > ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2005, 14:35 -0500 schrieb Hrishikesh Deshmukh: > Hi All, > > A question about "joins" i have 17 tables in my postgres-DB how does > one perform a join on these many tables!!! :( you just use 16 times the word "JOIN" ? HTH Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
On Mar 3, 2005, at 4:36 PM, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2005, 14:35 -0500 schrieb Hrishikesh Deshmukh: Hi All, A question about "joins" i have 17 tables in my postgres-DB how does one perform a join on these many tables!!! :( What are you trying to do? You have 17 total tables and you want to know how to join in general on several of them, or you need to do a 17-table join? Sean ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Hi, I want to do a 17 table join! :( But a general idea will help. Thanks, H On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:56:13 -0500, Sean Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 3, 2005, at 4:36 PM, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > > > Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2005, 14:35 -0500 schrieb Hrishikesh Deshmukh: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> A question about "joins" i have 17 tables in my postgres-DB how does > >> one perform a join on these many tables!!! :( > >> > > What are you trying to do? You have 17 total tables and you want to > know how to join in general on several of them, or you need to do a > 17-table join? > > Sean > > ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 18:00 -0500, Hrishikesh Deshmukh wrote: > Hi, > I want to do a 17 table join! :( But a general idea will help. > > Thanks, > H Try here to start: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/tutorial-join.html > SELECT * > FROM weather LEFT OUTER JOIN cities ON (weather.city = cities.name); Cheers, Robby -- /*** * Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek * PLANET ARGON | www.planetargon.com * Portland, OR | [EMAIL PROTECTED] * 503.351.4730 | blog.planetargon.com * PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development * --- Now hosting Ruby on Rails Apps --- / ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
[GENERAL] GUI Interface
Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for Microsoft SQL Server? Thanks Bart Butell Sasquatch Engineering email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 503 703-0044
Re: [GENERAL] GUI
Btw, I have wrote some kind of GUI (look at http://noc.bn.ru:8100/DEMO, you can CREATE TYPE (type == table, there was not SQL but object editor), edit list of objects etc etc /there is ip data base used as demo data base/), I have found GUI about 1/2 year ago and did not get great success. Through, it's possible (in theory) to use some existing front/end's by ODBS, and yiu (may be) found some other tools - I do not know. On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:59:18 + > From: Paulo da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [GENERAL] GUI > > I'm new working with posgres. > Is there any GUI to posgresql? > TIA > Paulo ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow (+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 239-10-10, N 13729 (pager) (+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Bart Butell wrote: Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for Microsoft SQL Server? A couple of big ones are pgAdmin3 and phppgadmin pgAdmin3 is a desktop app and looks like Enterprise Mgr. If you are used to Enterprise mgr, it can be almost good enough, especially the Query Analyzer look-alike. However, it has some drawbacks. The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns. phppgadmin runs on the server so you can use any browser to use it. It really shines in its display of text columns. Its only limitations that I've ever seen are the obvious limitations of being a web app. I prefer pgAdmin3 over phppgadmin solely because pgadmin3 is a desktop app. I find pgadmin3 also superior for inspecting and fiddling with stored procedures and especially triggers. Just my $.02. Thanks Bart Butell Sasquatch Engineering email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 503 703-0044 begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
And then there is PG Lightning Admin (which I like quite a bit). EMS has a GUI, although it has some limitations and I've heard that the folks that do the MySQL GUI have developed one for PostgreSQL. Almost an embarrassment of riches! Michael Schmidt - Original Message - From: Bart Butell To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: [GENERAL] GUI Interface Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for Microsoft SQL Server? Thanks Bart Butell Sasquatch Engineering email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 503 703-0044
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Bart Butell wrote: Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for Microsoft SQL Server? Thanks Bart Butell Sasquatch Engineering email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 503 703-0044 Your in Luck Bart, Check out PG Lightning Admin, it was developed initially for use by MS SQL server DBAs who could not stand pgAdmin III. I have sent you the full story privately. PG Lightning Admin can administer Postgresql databases running on any platform(Linux,Solaris,BSD,Win32 etc) To find out more see: http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com/lightning_admin.php We have a forum and a Mantis bug tracking system that you can check out(all powered by Postgresql of course). We make it a point to take customer requests and bug fixes very seriously which you can see by browsing the forums and the bug tracking system. Hope this helps you out. Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto > Sent: 12 May 2006 04:33 > To: Bart Butell > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Your in Luck Bart, > Check out PG Lightning Admin, it was developed initially for > use by MS SQL server DBAs who could not stand pgAdmin III. I > have sent you the full story privately. PG Lightning Admin > can administer Postgresql databases running on any > platform(Linux,Solaris,BSD,Win32 etc) Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth DownsSent: 12 May 2006 02:09To: pgsql-general@postgresql.orgSubject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it. I am considering making that behaviour optional though - I have many databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few seconds needlessly. On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns. How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to suggestions and feedback. Regards, Dave.
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs Sent: 12 May 2006 02:09 To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it. My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it will be in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases per server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not intentionally turn on debug logging. I am considering making that behaviour optional though - I have many databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few seconds needlessly. Yeah, it's hard to complain about seconds, but delays of that sort do upset concentration. The problem is compounded when I have to kill it and restart it for a network hang. On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? I'll answer this in another email, I'm about to deliberately freeze my X server and won't be able to answer :) Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns. How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to suggestions and feedback. The results display in the query analyzer shows one results at one row height. If a text column has CR's in it, such as the text of a stored procedure, or a stored XML file, you can't see anything. There appears no way to increase the height of the displayed result, so all I see is the first line. Ideal would be a display that sized itself to the height of the content. Then I'd be clean out of phppgadmin. phppgadmin has the edge here because they simply dump the result to the display and the browser sizes it. Regards, Dave. begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again I'll know who to notify. As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always involves a click-drag situation. begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Kenneth Downs schrieb: Dave Page wrote: On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again I'll know who to notify. As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always involves a click-drag situation. Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly into the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in the result you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and X freezes in this case. However you can login via another box and just kill pgadmin to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem with how drag & drop is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea. Regards Tino Wildenhain ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth DownsSent: 12 May 2006 13:06To: pgsql-general@postgresql.orgSubject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface Dave Page wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kenneth DownsSent: 12 May 2006 02:09To: pgsql-general@postgresql.orgSubject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it.My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it will be in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases per server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not intentionally turn on debug logging. I am considering making that behaviour optional though - I have many databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few seconds needlessly. Yeah, it's hard to complain about seconds, but delays of that sort do upset concentration. The problem is compounded when I have to kill it and restart it for a network hang. OK, I think I'm going to make 'restore' a per-server option. How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to suggestions and feedback. The results display in the query analyzer shows one results at one row height. If a text column has CR's in it, such as the text of a stored procedure, or a stored XML file, you can't see anything. There appears no way to increase the height of the displayed result, so all I see is the first line. Ideal would be a display that sized itself to the height of the content. Then I'd be clean out of phppgadmin.phppgadmin has the edge here because they simply dump the result to the display and the browser sizes it. Hmm, OK - I'm not sure everyone would want it to auto-size to the contents, but certainly in SVN trunk you can adjust the height of a column and see multiple lines correctly. Which leads me onto your other email that just arrived - you might want to try SVN trunk as the Query Tool has been the subject of a lot of recent work. It now uses a grid control rather than a list (which is most likely why multiline data is visible without any deliberate fixes), and the control is virtualised which now *completely* eliminates the data load time. In other words, where we used to display 123msec +102msec as a query time, now all you see (and wait) is 123mSec :-). There have also been a number of of other improvements such as the addition of a 'Favourite Query' manager, a 'Quick Report' engine which will dump your queries & results as XHTML or XML reports, and copy to clipboard improvements. Some of these could well have resolved the issue you are seeing. Regards, Dave.
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tino > Wildenhain > Sent: 12 May 2006 13:19 > To: Kenneth Downs > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly > into the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in > the result you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and > X freezes in this case. However you can login via another box > and just kill pgadmin to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem > with how drag & drop is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea. It's possible - drag 'n' drop is entirely handled by the Styled Text Control from wxWidgets rather than pgAdmin though, so it should be possible to reproduce it in other STC's in the app - for example, the function defintion on the Function dialogue. I'd be interested if this is possible as it should then be fairly easy to whip up a test case for the wx guys to look at. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? Regards, Dave Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I would guess that more regular people (NON FOSS developers) access Postgresql from a win32 Desktop not a Unix one. When Linux gets above 20% it might make sense to make applications for it, or if there was a thriving RAD IDE like Delphi. Mono is shaping up and so is Lazarus, but they are not there yet, and WXwidgets/Python etc is not productive at all, and Java is slow. By the way PGLA actually works OK with the latest version of WINE so it can run on Linux, just not natively. I like many people dual boot Linux and I can tell you I spend most of my time in win32 because applications I need don't exist for Linux. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Kenneth Downs wrote: Dave Page wrote: *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth Downs *Sent:* 12 May 2006 02:09 *To:* pgsql-general@postgresql.org *Subject:* Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it. My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it will be in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases per server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not intentionally turn on debug logging. Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload object properties instead of pulling them in as you need them. I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function is edited and saved by someone else on a different workstation I can't see those changes until I manually refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that preloading/caching has to be taking up some time. PGLA only populates the tree with the object names, and when you double click or right click to edit, then and only then is the object data brought back and displayed. When Lazarus(http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/) becomes more stable I will create a port of PGLA that will run on Linux and Mac OS X. -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto > Sent: 12 May 2006 13:40 > To: Kenneth Downs; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload > object properties instead of pulling them in as you need them. > I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function > is edited and saved by someone else on a different > workstation I can't see those changes until I manually > refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that > preloading/caching has to be taking up some time. It does, for sure. On the other hand though, if you're connected to your database via a slow network (working from home via modem or VPN for example), it does mean that every click is instant rather than having to wait for a query to execute - this is how pgAdmin I used to work, and frustrated too many people which is why it was changed. There's an up and downside to each design - just choose the tool that works in the best way for you at the appropriate price for your wallet. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: Dave Page wrote: Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? Regards, Dave Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents 100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero. begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Kenneth Downs wrote: I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents 100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster Good for you, You can rationalize it anyway you want, but linux has like 2 to 3 percent of the world wide desktop market and Apple has the next big chunk followed by Windows with over 90%. I like Linux as much as the next guy, but it's primary role for now is on the server not the desktop. You do realize that the original poster said he was running on Windows, so why in the heck would he run a Linux Desktop? Enough said... -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload object properties instead of pulling them in as you need them. I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function is edited and saved by someone else on a different workstation I can't see those changes until I manually refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that preloading/caching has to be taking up some time. It does, for sure. On the other hand though, if you're connected to your database via a slow network (working from home via modem or VPN for example), it does mean that every click is instant rather than having to wait for a query to execute - this is how pgAdmin I used to work, and frustrated too many people which is why it was changed. There's an up and downside to each design - just choose the tool that works in the best way for you at the appropriate price for your wallet. Regards, Dave Why not have it be an option as to how it loads table info? I've also been looking for a decent GUI interface for postgres, but the knowledge that pgadmin III will want to load all of my table data every time I use the app is definitely prohibitive for me as our db here at work is huge. And, seriously, are we still living at a time when connection speed should be considered a deciding design factor? Yes, some people still work off of slow connections, but the vast majority of us who work in a professional environment most definitely do not. Thanks, Erik ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Erik Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 15:09 > To: Dave Page > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Why not have it be an option as to how it loads table info? It's a fairly fundamental part of the design - such a change would be major. > I've also been looking for a decent GUI interface for > postgres, but the knowledge that pgadmin III will want to > load all of my table data every time I use the app is > definitely prohibitive for me as our db here at work is huge. It doesn't load 'all of your table data' - in fact it doesn't load *any* user table data unless you specifically tell it to. What it does is preload chunks of *meta* data - ie. Rows from pg_class, pg_database etc. For example, open a Database node and it'll preload the cast, language, schema and if appropriate, Slony cluster meta data. Open a schema node and it'll preload the aggregates, functions , domains etc in that and only that schema. > And, seriously, > are we still living at a time when connection speed should be > considered a deciding design factor? Yes, some people still > work off of slow connections, but the vast majority of us who > work in a professional environment most definitely do not. I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Page > Sent: 12 May 2006 15:46 > To: Erik Jones > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) > where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new > laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small > company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side > of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a > query-per-click interface unusable. And I forgot to mention the remote users working from home via VPN over a domestic ADSL line with only 256Kb/s upstream at 50:1 contention. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Kenneth Downs wrote: Tony Caduto wrote: Dave Page wrote: Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? Regards, Dave Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents 100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero. Well even more then that. The market that Tony is going after he *thinks* runs Windows, it doesn't. The majority of people out there that run PostgreSQL are running *nix. Yes, the majority of downloads we have received over the past two years is Windows. However that number is completely false because all major *nix (Including Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, MacOSX and Linux) ship with PostgreSQL. I would actually, probably purchase pgLightning if it ran on Linux but sense it doesn't he is out of luck and frankly, so am I because it is a good product. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 09:39, Tony Caduto wrote: > Kenneth Downs wrote: > > > > > > I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents > > 100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning > > will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero. > > ---(end of broadcast)--- > > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > > Good for you, > You can rationalize it anyway you want, but linux has like 2 to 3 > percent of the world wide desktop market and Apple has the next big > chunk followed by Windows with over 90%. This is true for generic desktops, but that's not your actual market. Your market is desktops that need to access a PostgreSQL database, which is a subset of the overall desktop market. In this case, I'd be willing to bet that there are easily as many linux desktops accessing PostgreSQL servers as there are Windows desktops, and that the Mac comes in a distant third to either of them. Where I work, we have about 30 developers who access PostgreSQL at various times, and about 8 or so Windows users, and 2 Mac users. At my last company, the numbers were pretty similar. We bought about 30 licenses for EMS PostgreSQL manager, and about 10 of those were for the windows version. > I like Linux as much as the next guy, but it's primary role for now is > on the server not the desktop. Uh, I think your thinking in the past. Linux's role on the desktop is slowly growing, not shrinking. Most startups have a fair percentage of desktops running linux nowadays. This thread reminds me of an interesting conversation I had in my last job. We had a CIO who was enamored of Microsoft's products. He was trying to convert all our development to the .net platform. During a meeting with some junior sales sheeple from MS, I brought up the point that many of their fancy features didn't work without IE. The sales person pointed out that 98% of the market was running IE. I pointed out that our biggest customer, Boeing Engineering, had about 40,000 linux / unix on desktops. He looked me in the eye and said "Bullshit!" He honestly thought I was lying to him. I pointed out that our second largest customer was Martin Marietta, and that they had well over 10,000 linux /unix desktops. He would NOT believe me. I had to walk him over to our sales people and have them repeat what I'd already told him. My point is that what my mother runs as an OS doesn't really matter. It's what your potential customers run as an OS that matters, and that is NOT as nearly cut and dried as you might think it is. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
And, seriously, are we still living at a time when connection speed should be considered a deciding design factor? Yes, some people still work off of slow connections, but the vast majority of us who work in a professional environment most definitely do not. I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable. Not to mention the large community of users within countries with slim bandwidth such as Chile, Brazil and Turkey. Also lets not forget Transatlantic lines, or countries where bandwidth is great "Within" the country but the country uses sattelite to get to the rest of the world. Joshua D. Drake P.S. My uncle lives in the U.k. it is damn spendy. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable. So you are saying the UK does not have cable or DSL based broadband? Leased T1s etc are very costly in the US also, and no one would have one at home unless their company paid for it, and it would have to be a major corporation to pay for that type of leased line. Most companies here will cover the cost of a cable or DSL connection and that is very fast for one user to connect to the net. Anyway, if in general you where using a slow connection such as a 56k line wouldn't it make a lot of sense to work on a local copy of the database? When you are working in a LAN environment the pre-loading that pgAdmin III does is kind of a pain in the you know what. I had MS SQL DBAs notice the preloading/caching right away and they hated it. It really sucks for the function editor as after you open the function for the first time it continues to use the cached copy until you refresh or save it again. Joe DBA down the hall in some other cube makes a change to a function and with pgAdmin III you won't know about it until you manually refresh the function, opening it will cause it to use the last cached copy and you then go about your business and when you save it you wipe out the changes made by DBA #2 . In a perfect situation you would not be doing things like this on a production server, but it still happens. You should at least change this behavior for the function editor as it makes no sense to be caching the functions ddl. All I can say is that if you are used to working with the tools that come with commercial DBs they do not behave anything like pgAdmin III and you end up cursing everything about pgAdmin III. If you are not used to anything else pgAdmin III is great and thats because you don't know what you are missing. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: query-per-click interface unusable. And I forgot to mention the remote users working from home via VPN over a domestic ADSL line with only 256Kb/s upstream at 50:1 contention. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org That's still faster than a 56k modem. I use PGLA from home over a VPN via a cable modem which gets 256k upload speeds and when I load a function directly it loads very fast, and the main object trees load very fast. It only slows down a bit when you save the function back to the server and it's not that much. Downloads on cable and DSL are fast, it's only the uploads where you see any kind of slowdown. In this day and age the load as you need it works much better overall. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Caduto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 16:51 > To: Dave Page; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Dave Page wrote: > > I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) > where the > > cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a > > significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, > I regularly > > use servers on the other side of the world where the round > trip time > > etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable. > > > > > So you are saying the UK does not have cable or DSL based broadband? No, I'm saying that a leased line is very expensive. FWIW, SDSL is still far from being widely available, and DSL only has 256Kb/sec upstream speed. Domestic DSL lines are generally contended at 50:1 so actually getting 256Kb/sec upstream, is very unlikely. > Anyway, if in general you where using a slow connection such > as a 56k line wouldn't it make a lot of sense to work on a > local copy of the database? Not if it's of any real size. > When you are working in a LAN environment the pre-loading > that pgAdmin III does is kind of a pain in the you know what. OK, now I know you're just trying to slag off pgAdmin. My SQL Server's here are *significantly* more powerful than my PostgreSQL servers, yet pgAdmin is far more responsive then Enterprise Manager. > I had MS SQL DBAs notice the preloading/caching right away > and they hated it. > It really sucks for the function editor as after you open the > function for the first time it continues to use the cached > copy until you refresh or save it again. Joe DBA down the > hall in some other cube makes a change to a function and with > pgAdmin III you won't know about it until you manually > refresh the function, opening it will cause it to use the > last cached copy and you then go about your business and when > you save it you wipe out the changes made by DBA #2 . In a > perfect situation you would not be doing things like this on > a production server, but it still happens. You should at > least change this behavior for the function editor as it > makes no sense to be caching the functions ddl. It is on my todo for the next release. Note that even that still doesn't protect the user from concurrent edit conflicts. > All I can say is that if you are used to working with the > tools that come with commercial DBs they do not behave > anything like pgAdmin III and you end up cursing everything > about pgAdmin III. If you are not used to anything else > pgAdmin III is great and thats because you don't know what > you are missing. I've used Enterprise Manager since before I started with pgAdmin II and I still curse it to this day. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
In this case, I'd be willing to bet that there are easily as many linux desktops accessing PostgreSQL servers as there are Windows desktops, and that the Mac comes in a distant third to either of them. [snip] I agree with everything you had to say Scott, but just FYI I think the Mac, distant third argument is not as distant as you think. I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of choice is MacOSX. I found it interesting because I don't particularly like MacOSX. It seems entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for me. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Well even more then that. The market that Tony is going after he *thinks* runs Windows, it doesn't. The majority of people out there that run PostgreSQL are running *nix. Yes, the majority of downloads we have received over the past two years is Windows. However that number is completely false because all major *nix (Including Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, MacOSX and Linux) ship with PostgreSQL. I would actually, probably purchase pgLightning if it ran on Linux but sense it doesn't he is out of luck and frankly, so am I because it is a good product. That's not exactly true :-) The market I am going after are those that run windows on the desktop and access Postgresql running on any server platform. I would still argue that the vast majority of people access their Postgresql servers from a Windows Desktop, not a Unix one. Sure the majority of the people that use this list may run a Linux Desktop, but not everyone that uses Postgresql uses this mailing list. I would agree that most production Postgresql servers are running on some form of Unix, just because the server is on Unix or whatever has no bearing on what desktop they are accessing it from. It would be interesting to see what the numbers really are, maybe someone should put up a survey and put a link to it from the main Postgresql site. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto > Sent: 12 May 2006 17:08 > To: Joshua D. Drake; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > It would be interesting to see what the numbers really are, > maybe someone should put up a survey and put a link to it > from the main Postgresql site. I'm sure I can arrange an official survey on http://www.postgresql.org/community/ /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: > Dave Page wrote: >> Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? >> >> Regards, Dave >> >> > Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems > account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I would guess that > more regular people (NON FOSS developers) access Postgresql from a win32 > Desktop not a Unix one. > When Linux gets above 20% it might make sense to make applications for > it, or if there was a thriving RAD IDE like Delphi. Mono is shaping up > and so is Lazarus, but > they are not there yet, and WXwidgets/Python etc is not productive at > all, and Java is slow. > By the way PGLA actually works OK with the latest version of WINE so it > can run on Linux, just not natively. > > I like many people dual boot Linux and I can tell you I spend most of my > time in win32 because applications I need don't exist for Linux. Well you are the one who makes the problem by waiting other people to write software instead of writing your software to run on more then one system. Not a nice idea. pgadmin2 was windows only and this sucked a lot. Now it runs everywhere and we love it. I dont know - what exacly would I get from running windows as an open source developer? No apropriate network tools, sucky "shell" singe-user-session... Where is sftp/ssh natively available? Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: I've used Enterprise Manager since before I started with pgAdmin II and I still curse it to this day. it's all what you are used to I guess :-) I don't like enterprise manager either, but most of the hardcore MS DBAs use the Query Analyzer program which is separate from the Enterprise Manager and much nicer to work with. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 11:07:32AM -0500, Tony Caduto wrote: > It would be interesting to see what the numbers really are, maybe > someone should put up a survey and put a link to it from the main > Postgresql site. I doubt you could lend any credence to the results, but there is a poll system on the postgres website. Looking at the poll history it looks like "what desktop do you access postgresql from" is not a question that's been asked yet. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/ > From each according to his ability. To each according to his ability to > litigate. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto Sent: 12 May 2006 17:08 To: Joshua D. Drake; pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface It would be interesting to see what the numbers really are, maybe someone should put up a survey and put a link to it from the main Postgresql site. I'm sure I can arrange an official survey on http://www.postgresql.org/community/ /D Sounds good to me. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Caduto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 17:14 > To: Dave Page; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Dave Page wrote: > > I've used Enterprise Manager since before I started with pgAdmin II > > and I still curse it to this day. > > > > > > > it's all what you are used to I guess :-) I don't like > enterprise manager either, but most of the hardcore MS DBAs > use the Query Analyzer program which is separate from the > Enterprise Manager and much nicer to work with. Interesting - you've been complaining about the way the 'Enterprise Manager' part compares to pgAdmin up until now, not the Query Analyser. Out of interest, what is wrong with our Query Tool? We may well have resolved many of the issues - for example, 1.6 will have: - A 'Favourites' query manager - Zero data load time through the use of a new virtual grid control. This supercedes my blog entry about the previous speed enhancements. - 'Quick Reports' - allow you to dump your queries and results to XHTML/XML reports, optionally XSLT transformed using a stylesheet of your choice. - Auto complete in the editor And of course, since the DBAs who prompted you to write PGLA would have evaluated it, we've also added: - Ability to export query results to file - Async notification support - Graphical Explain - Ability to switch to a different database Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: Dave Page wrote: I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable. So you are saying the UK does not have cable or DSL based broadband? No he is saying that they are metered. Anyway, if in general you where using a slow connection such as a 56k line wouldn't it make a lot of sense to work on a local copy of the database? Sure it would make more sense, but that isn't always an option. I have employees all over the world.. When they work on our databases (we don't actually use pgAdminIII but the rules still apply) they have to work remotely. All I can say is that if you are used to working with the tools that come with commercial DBs they do not behave anything like pgAdmin III and you end up cursing everything about pgAdmin III. If you are not used to anything else pgAdmin III is great and thats because you don't know what you are missing. Well that can be said of any type of software ;) Joshua D. Drake Later, -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
A survey would be interesting. But I'm sure it would still point out that Windows is king as far as percentage goes. Linux and Mac would possibly be neck and neck, but I'm not sure about that. I'm just guessing. I know lots of Ruby on Rails developers use Macs, but I don't know how many of those use PostgreSQL. Lots of them seem to like MySQL. We use Mac OS X exclusively for development and deployment. We use a variety of GUI and non-gui (psql) tools. PgAdmin and Navicat mostly. Thanks, Brendan Duddridge | CTO | 403-277-5591 x24 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ClickSpace Interactive Inc. Suite L100, 239 - 10th Ave. SE Calgary, AB T2G 0V9 http://www.clickspace.com On May 12, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto Sent: 12 May 2006 17:08 To: Joshua D. Drake; pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface It would be interesting to see what the numbers really are, maybe someone should put up a survey and put a link to it from the main Postgresql site. I'm sure I can arrange an official survey on http://www.postgresql.org/community/ /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tino Wildenhain wrote: Tony Caduto wrote: Dave Page wrote: Only runs on Windows though doesn't it? Regards, Dave Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I would guess that more regular people (NON FOSS developers) access Postgresql from a win32 Desktop not a Unix one. When Linux gets above 20% it might make sense to make applications for it, or if there was a thriving RAD IDE like Delphi. Mono is shaping up and so is Lazarus, but they are not there yet, and WXwidgets/Python etc is not productive at all, and Java is slow. By the way PGLA actually works OK with the latest version of WINE so it can run on Linux, just not natively. I like many people dual boot Linux and I can tell you I spend most of my time in win32 because applications I need don't exist for Linux. Well you are the one who makes the problem by waiting other people to write software instead of writing your software to run on more then one system. Not a nice idea. pgadmin2 was windows only and this sucked a lot. Now it runs everywhere and we love it. I dont know - what exacly would I get from running windows as an open source developer? No apropriate network tools, sucky "shell" singe-user-session... Where is sftp/ssh natively available? Regards Tino uh pgAdmin II sucked because it used ODBC and was coded in Visual Basic, not because it ran on windows. pgAdmin III is far superior to pgAdmin II in almost every regards and it's not because it's cross platform. It's because it's a far better design. Not sure what you mean by me waiting to for other people to write software. If your running Linux on the desktop, that's great!! but by saying I am creating a problem because PGLA only runs on windows is extremely short sighted. -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
That's not exactly true :-) The market I am going after are those that run windows on the desktop and access Postgresql running on any server platform. I would still argue that the vast majority of people access their Postgresql servers from a Windows Desktop, not a Unix one. O.k., lets say for the sake of argument you are correct. Then wouldn't the sales of your product reflect that? I am not trying to be antagonistic here, but honestly curious as to how you are coming to your conclusions. I have been using PostgreSQL since before it was PostgreSQL and except for Internet Explorer/Web access I can tell you that most do not use Windows to manage PostgreSQL. Will that change? Oh, probably as our native Windows port gets better and better but right now... Meh.. I think your off your rocker :) Sure the majority of the people that use this list may run a Linux Desktop, but not everyone that uses Postgresql uses this mailing list. True. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of choice is MacOSX. And to follow up on this, I just saw that Tom Lane, Buddha guru of PostgreSQL runs a Powerbook ;) I found it interesting because I don't particularly like MacOSX. It seems entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for me. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: Interesting - you've been complaining about the way the 'Enterprise Manager' part compares to pgAdmin up until now, not the Query Analyser. Out of interest, what is wrong with our Query Tool? We may well have resolved many of the issues - for example, 1.6 will have: I don't think I every specifically mentioned "Enterprise Manager" I always said MS SQL DBAs not really mentioning what program they primarily used. You are right pgAdmnin III is better than it was 2 years ago, I will give you that :-) Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Not a sales pitch And it may have been offered earlier in this string But I have enjoyed the extra bells and whistles offered This application is not Open Source. I have been using it in windows to manage and manipulate a PostgreSQL server running in Linux with limited of success. The application is EMS PostgreSQL Manager currently $135 directly from their site http://www.pgsqlmanager.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:40 AM To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface Dave Page wrote: > Interesting - you've been complaining about the way the 'Enterprise > Manager' part compares to pgAdmin up until now, not the Query Analyser. > Out of interest, what is wrong with our Query Tool? We may well have > resolved many of the issues - for example, 1.6 will have: > > > I don't think I every specifically mentioned "Enterprise Manager" I always said MS SQL DBAs not really mentioning what program they primarily used. You are right pgAdmnin III is better than it was 2 years ago, I will give you that :-) Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> I have been using it in windows to manage and manipulate a PostgreSQL > server running in Linux with limited of success. > > The application is EMS PostgreSQL Manager currently $135 directly from > their site > > http://www.pgsqlmanager.com/ Just to complete the list of commercial products. This link would be of help: http://www.postgresql.org/download/commercial Regards, Richard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
It would be great if by default postgres used NOTIFY after any schema changes. Then, listening UIs could be aware of changes behind the scenes without polling or manual refreshing. -M ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 11:39, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that > > are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of > > choice is MacOSX. > > And to follow up on this, I just saw that Tom Lane, Buddha guru of > PostgreSQL runs a Powerbook ;) Now now, he didn't say it was his. Could be his mother's... (ducks to avoid tomato thrown by Bruce...) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Joshua D. Drake wrote: I am not trying to be antagonistic here, but honestly curious as to how you are coming to your conclusions. I have been using PostgreSQL since before it was PostgreSQL and except for Internet Explorer/Web access I can tell you that most do not use Windows to manage PostgreSQL. Will that change? Oh, probably as our native Windows port gets better and better but right now... Meh.. I think your off your rocker :) Well, let's do the survey thing and see, sure it will be unscientific, but interesting regardless. I am getting my conclusions from the fact that Desktop Linux is just not popular yet, there are few if any commercial apps being written for it. Also most DBAs are not hard core OSS programmers and anyone coming from a commercial system is more than likely used to running the admin tools on windows. Before there was even a windows version many many people accessed Postgresql from windows, I know I did. Also a lot of people think what they think from this mailing list and I can tell you there are many many causual users who have never used this list -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Joshua D. Drake wrote: I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of choice is MacOSX. And to follow up on this, I just saw that Tom Lane, Buddha guru of PostgreSQL runs a Powerbook ;) hate to break this to you but the developers should not even be considered in all this as they are the very smallest subset of users. -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
I am getting my conclusions from the fact that Desktop Linux is just not popular yet, there are few if any commercial apps being written for it. Uhh... because they are not needed :) I run my entire business one Linux. My business is no different then any other small business. I need: A MS compatible Office Suite: Done. OO A Good PDF reader: Done. Evince and Acroread A Decent Email client: Done. Thunderbird (Evolution if you need to connect to exchange or groupwise) The ability to create PDFs. Done, natively with just about any tool that can print ;) The ability to code with tools and language of choice... This one is obvious. Accounting Package.. O.k. this one sits on my wife's machine and it is quickbooks with Windows. So yes one thing is missing. And no... SQL Ledger is not acceptable. Also most DBAs are not hard core OSS programmers and anyone coming from a commercial system is more than likely used to running the admin tools on windows. I know many Oracle people who would disagree with you. Also a lot of people think what they think from this mailing list and I can tell you there are many many causual users who have never used this list Well I am certain that is true... I used PostgreSQL years before I started trolling this list with others but I still used Linux to connect ;) Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of choice is MacOSX. And to follow up on this, I just saw that Tom Lane, Buddha guru of PostgreSQL runs a Powerbook ;) hate to break this to you but the developers should not even be considered in all this as they are the very smallest subset of users. Uhmmm your market *IS* developers ;)... You don't actually think my mom needs your product do you? Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
A.M. wrote: It would be great if by default postgres used NOTIFY after any schema changes. Then, listening UIs could be aware of changes behind the scenes without polling or manual refreshing. That sounds like a huge misuse of resources. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -M ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Uhmmm your market *IS* developers ;)... You don't actually think my mom needs your product do you? Joshua D. Drake Sorry, I meant Postgresql developers :-) I figured you would have figured that out since you where talking about Tom :-) -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Scott Marlowe wrote: > On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 11:39, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > I am regularly dealing with customers, and specifically developers that > > > are running Linux+PostgreSQL on the server... but their desktop of > > > choice is MacOSX. > > > > And to follow up on this, I just saw that Tom Lane, Buddha guru of > > PostgreSQL runs a Powerbook ;) > > Now now, he didn't say it was his. Could be his mother's... > > (ducks to avoid tomato thrown by Bruce...) I remember he got some type of Mac laptop while he was at Greatbridge, but when they went bust, the parent company didn't know what to do with a Mac, so they let him keep it. (I didn't use a laptop at the time.) Might be the same one. Anyway, it would make an interesting reason for choosing a Mac. I can see the commerical now. :-) I actually use a laptop running XP. I got it for the Win32 port, and because I use putty/ssh, Mozilla, and Gaim 99% of the time, it doesn't matter what OS I use. I could install a unix on it, but there seems to be no need because all my unix work is done on my server via ssh. -- Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 12:00:26PM -0500, Tony Caduto wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >I am not trying to be antagonistic here, but honestly curious as to > >how you are coming to your conclusions. I have been using > >PostgreSQL since before it was PostgreSQL and except for Internet > >Explorer/Web access I can tell you that most do not use Windows to > >manage PostgreSQL. > > > >Will that change? Oh, probably as our native Windows port gets > >better and better but right now... Meh.. I think your off your > >rocker :) > > > Well, let's do the survey thing and see, sure it will be > unscientific, but interesting regardless. > > I am getting my conclusions from the fact that Desktop Linux is > just not popular yet, there are few if any commercial apps being > written for it. I can see how as a proprietary software developer, you can confuse the two, but I don't see how the first thing follows from the second. It could simply be that the apps for Linux desktops are also FLOSS. > Also most DBAs are not hard core OSS programmers and anyone coming > from a commercial system is more than likely used to running the > admin tools on windows. They may or may not be used to such things. Most of the hardcore DBAs I know are very big on the command line and impatient with the 'Are you sure? Are you really sure? Are you really, REALLY sure?' paradigm that infests entirely too many GUIs. > Before there was even a windows version many many people accessed > Postgresql from windows, I know I did. Also a lot of people think > what they think from this mailing list and I can tell you there are > many many causual users who have never used this list I should certainly hope so. I'm really big on good user interfaces, and that means that I don't equate "good" with "graphical." Forcing people to use a GUI paradigm where it doesn't work[1] frustrates them and insults their intelligence. "End users"[2] are not stupid, illiterate, or unable to type on their keyboards, and they resent being treated as though they were any or all of those things. They do need good, easily searchable instructions, tho :) Cheers, D [1] Where "doesn't work" depends both on the particular user and on the problem at hand. [2] Anybody who first touched a computer when they were an adult, e.g. -- David Fetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> From: Tony Caduto > > Kenneth Downs wrote: > > > > > > I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents > > 100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning > > will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero. > > ---(end of broadcast)--- > > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > > Good for you, > You can rationalize it anyway you want, but linux has like 2 to 3 > percent of the world wide desktop market and Apple has the next big > chunk followed by Windows with over 90%. > > I like Linux as much as the next guy, but it's primary role for now is > on the server not the desktop. > > You do realize that the original poster said he was running on Windows, > so why in the heck would he run a Linux Desktop? > > Enough said... > > -- > Tony Caduto Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z Those Windows developer tools must be working really well since you have the time to litter my inbox with all these trivial arguments. :-) BTW who was the EXPERT that slammed java performance? Best regards, Jim Wilson -- Jim Wilson Kelco Industries PO Box 160 Milbridge, ME 04658 207-546-7989 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Bruce Momjian wrote: I actually use a laptop running XP. I got it for the Win32 port, and because I use putty/ssh, Mozilla, and Gaim 99% of the time, it doesn't matter what OS I use. I could install a unix on it, but there seems to be no need because all my unix work is done on my server via ssh. Dude, you just totally described my 'work environment' to a T! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z Those Windows developer tools must be working really well since you have the time to litter my inbox with all these trivial arguments. :-) BTW who was the EXPERT that slammed java performance? No clue, but java sucks on the desktop :) Best regards, Jim Wilson -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Caduto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 17:17 > To: Dave Page > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > > > > I'm sure I can arrange an official survey on > > http://www.postgresql.org/community/ > > > > /D > > > > > Sounds good to me. > OK, 'tis done. http://www.postgresql.org/community/ It might take an hour or so to hit the frontend servers - the impatient can get to it immediately on wwwmaster. /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Jim Wilson wrote: Those Windows developer tools must be working really well How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive than anything available on Linux at this time, though the netbeans IDE comes close, to bad Java is slow for almost all desktop applications. One example is LimeWire, while it works well, it takes forever to load and the UI seems a little sluggish compared to a native compiled application. -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto > Sent: 12 May 2006 20:41 > To: Jim Wilson > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Jim Wilson wrote: > > > > Those Windows developer tools must be working really well > > > How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive than > anything available on Linux at this time, In what way is PGLA "far superior and more productive" than pgAdmin? Sure it looks nice and pretty, and I'm sure has some nice features, but pgAdmin almost certainly offers more features useful to a wider audience, runs on multiple platforms, fully supports different charactersets such as Farsi, Chinese and Japanese as well as Latin*, has been translated into over thirty languages, can fully manage (ie. Start/stop/examine logs etc) your servers on any platform and can manage your Slony clusters... Oh, and while I'm slightly annoyed, I'll ask you again to please stop slating pgAdmin on your website in order to sell PGLA. Apart from being a low tactic, I wouldn't be surprised if you were actually breaking UK and probably other European advertising laws which prohibit almost all comparison of competitor products in advertising - especially given the way you deliberately state that PGLA includes many features not found in other tools like pgAdmin when clearly a large percentage of them can be. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto Sent: 12 May 2006 20:41 To: Jim Wilson Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface Jim Wilson wrote: Those Windows developer tools must be working really well How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive than anything available on Linux at this time, In what way is PGLA "far superior and more productive" than pgAdmin? Sure it looks nice and pretty, and I'm sure has some nice features, but pgAdmin almost certainly offers more features useful to a wider audience, runs on multiple platforms, fully supports different charactersets such as Farsi, Chinese and Japanese as well as Latin*, has been translated into over thirty languages, can fully manage (ie. Start/stop/examine logs etc) your servers on any platform and can manage your Slony clusters... Oh, and while I'm slightly annoyed, I'll ask you again to please stop slating pgAdmin on your website in order to sell PGLA. Apart from being a low tactic, I wouldn't be surprised if you were actually breaking UK and probably other European advertising laws which prohibit almost all comparison of competitor products in advertising - especially given the way you deliberately state that PGLA includes many features not found in other tools like pgAdmin when clearly a large percentage of them can be. Regards, Dave. Dave calm downtake a chill pill... who said anything about pgAdmin III? Jim was referring to the tools used to build PGLA, not PGLA itself :-) At least that is what I thought he was blabbing about. In this particular case the part that is far superior and more productive is Borland Delphi and even Visual Studio .net What the heck is slating? All I am doing is saying there is a alternative, nothing wrong with that :-) -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Page > Sent: 12 May 2006 21:07 > To: Tony Caduto; Jim Wilson > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto > > Sent: 12 May 2006 20:41 > > To: Jim Wilson > > Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > > > Jim Wilson wrote: > > > > > > Those Windows developer tools must be working really well > > > > > How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive > than anything > > available on Linux at this time, > > In what way is PGLA "far superior and more productive" than pgAdmin? Tony, It's just been pointed out to me that you may have meant the developer tools we use to write our respective products - if so I apologise for misreading that, and please disregard my question above. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: Jim Wilson wrote: Those Windows developer tools must be working really well How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive than anything available on Linux at this time, though the netbeans IDE comes close, to bad Java is slow for almost all desktop applications. One example is LimeWire, while it works well, it takes forever to load and the UI seems a little sluggish compared to a native compiled application. You live in an interesting world... meanwhile, I'm here in the real world, using Eclipse - the best IDE I've ever used to develop java applications. Oh, wait, Eclipse is written in Java? I didn't think it was possible to write good apps in java? Certainly better than visual studio (and yes, I have to use both - eclipse is a far better IDE in my opinion). Oh, and I can run eclipse on my linux desktop as well as my windows desktop? Thats just cool. Oh, and my next machine? Definitely a Mac. And it woks there too - just like all of my SWT apps do. I will admit, it is rather easy to write slow java swing applications There are a lot of poor ones out there. Its a shame that Sun botched swing so badly, and have never repaired it properly. Its not impossible to write fast, responsive apps in swing, it just takes skilled developers. And its a pain. However, now with the emergence of SWT and modern JVM's - there is no reason for your java GUI to be any slower than anything else. The only excuse for a slow java app these days is the quality of the code that it is built with. And you can write a bad, slow app in any language. Oh, and to get back on topic a bit more - DBVisualizer is also a nice database GUI (written in Java, by the way) that is very fast, responsive, and cross platform. http://www.minq.se/products/dbvis/ Its also rather handy if you have to deal with 5 different types of databases on a daily basis, since it handles them all. Dan -- Daniel Armbrust Biomedical Informatics Mayo Clinic Rochester daniel.armbrust(at)mayo.edu http://informatics.mayo.edu/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
I have nothing to offer this highly entertaining thread except I'm firmly with the camp that thinks getting Unix/Linux developers on board is the best way to promote a PostgreSQL GUI for all platforms. Still hoping to do that someday soon. But mainly I just want to thank the other posters for "junior sales sheeple from MS" and "I don't particularly like MacOSX. It seems entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for me." Almost spewed Diet Coke on the monitor. I never even heard "sheeple" before, but I can see I'm just behind the times because it is already in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheeple). John DeSoi, Ph.D. http://pgedit.com/ Power Tools for PostgreSQL ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dan Armbrust wrote: You live in an interesting world... meanwhile, I'm here in the real world, using Eclipse - the best IDE I've ever used to develop java applications. Good for you :-) Keep on thinking that Eclipse is nice, but after using both (eclipse and netbeans) I just liked net beans better, mostly because the included forms designer is really nice and pretty similar to the one used in Delphi. Delphi still beats them both hands down for developing desktop applications(Windows) On linux you don't really have any other choice except for MonoDevelop and that is so buggy it's not funny. Oh there is also Lazarus and that is also pretty nice, but can be unstable. -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql Your best bet for Postgresql Administration ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto Sent: 12 May 2006 20:41 To: Jim Wilson Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface Jim Wilson wrote: Those Windows developer tools must be working really well How right you are Jim, far superior and more productive than anything available on Linux at this time, In what way is PGLA "far superior and more productive" than pgAdmin? O.k. lets back up a little :) Remember that this is all opinion driven. There is no right answer. Oh, and while I'm slightly annoyed, I'll ask you again to please stop slating pgAdmin on your website in order to sell PGLA. Although it certainly isn't fair or ethical if he negatively impacts pgAdmin there should be any problem of have a featture comparison matrix or something should there? Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Joshua D. Drake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 21:45 > To: Dave Page > Cc: Tony Caduto; Jim Wilson; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Although it certainly isn't fair or ethical if he negatively > impacts pgAdmin there should be any problem of have a > featture comparison matrix or something should there? I have no problem with that at all, as long as it is fairly and accurately done. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dan Armbrust wrote: Tony Caduto wrote: Jim Wilson wrote: Oh, and to get back on topic a bit more - DBVisualizer is also a nice database GUI (written in Java, by the way) that is very fast, responsive, and cross platform. http://www.minq.se/products/dbvis/ All due respect but I am running a Dual-Core AMD64 3800+ with 2 gig of ram. Java is slow on the desktop. Yes, DBvisualizer is a nice product and so is Eclipse but compared to even bytecode language such as Python/WxWindows... Java is very, very slow. Especially during screen draws (and yes I run accelerated Video). That is not to say it is not acceptable but the fact that it is slow on my level of machine speaks volumes. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Its also rather handy if you have to deal with 5 different types of databases on a daily basis, since it handles them all. Dan -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tony Caduto wrote: Dan Armbrust wrote: You live in an interesting world... meanwhile, I'm here in the real world, using Eclipse - the best IDE I've ever used to develop java applications. Good for you :-) Keep on thinking that Eclipse is nice, but after using both (eclipse and netbeans) I just liked net beans better, mostly because the included forms designer is really nice and pretty similar to the one used in Delphi. Delphi still beats them both hands down for developing desktop applications(Windows) On linux you don't really have any other choice except for MonoDevelop and that is so buggy it's not funny. Oh there is also Lazarus and that is also pretty nice, but can be unstable. We don't? Glade WxDesigner QT (I forget the name of their forms product) Oh and if we are sadistic: Kylix. Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: http://www.postgresql.org/community/ Okay, so I voted and I see Linux leads the pack 16 of 29. I return a few moments later and Linux leads the pack 13 to 24. What gives?? -- Until later, Geoffrey Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. - Benjamin Franklin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: 12 May 2006 22:18 > To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Dave Page wrote: > > > http://www.postgresql.org/community/ > > Okay, so I voted and I see Linux leads the pack 16 of 29. I > return a few moments later and Linux leads the pack 13 to 24. > What gives?? You hit a different server which synced up a little earlier than the first server. If you want the correct, to the minute result, look on wwwmaster.postgresql.org. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Caduto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2006 21:24 > To: Dave Page; pgsql-general@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > Dave calm downtake a chill pill... > who said anything about pgAdmin III? Jim was referring to > the tools used to build PGLA, not PGLA itself :-) At least > that is what I thought he was blabbing about. > In this particular case the part that is far superior and > more productive is Borland Delphi and even Visual Studio .net Yes, misunderstanding - please see my previous email. > What the heck is slating? All I am doing is saying there is > a alternative, nothing wrong with that :-) Slating == berating. I think it's hard to deny with so many mentions of pgAdmin on your site, and no mentions of any other similar product that when you say 'PGLA does this better', or 'has all these extra features' that the intention is that the user assume you are directly comparing to pgAdmin rather than any other product. I wouldn't mind if it were all true, but it is not - the list of features that are not found 'in other products' contains many that are in pgAdmin, likewise you have at least one quote that says something like 'everything in pgAdmin is a dialogue' which is also untrue. Maybe that's because you don't expect us to sue you like another company might (and you'd be right), I don't know - perhaps you could prove me wrong by comparing features of PGLA with Tora or EMS PostgreSQL Manager as well for example? Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John DeSoi > Sent: 12 May 2006 21:29 > To: pgsql general > Cc: Scott Marlowe; Joshua D. Drake > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > > But mainly I just want to thank the other posters for "junior > sales sheeple from MS" and "I don't particularly like MacOSX. > It seems entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for > me." Almost spewed Diet Coke on the monitor. I never even > heard "sheeple" before, but I can see I'm just behind the > times because it is already in Wikipedia > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheeple). Yes, I'd like to echo that sentiment - 'sheeple' caused fits of laughter in our office :) /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Okay, so I voted and I see Linux leads the pack 16 of 29. I return afew moments later and Linux leads the pack 13 to 24. What gives?? Didn't you read about some part of the websites working on MySQL? Why are you then surprised?tongue-in-cheek,Harald-- GHUM Harald Massapersuadere et programmare Harald Armin MassaReinsburgstraße 202b70197 Stuttgart0173/9409607-PostgreSQL - supported by a community that does not put you on hold
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John DeSoi Sent: 12 May 2006 21:29 To: pgsql general Cc: Scott Marlowe; Joshua D. Drake Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface But mainly I just want to thank the other posters for "junior sales sheeple from MS" and "I don't particularly like MacOSX. It seems entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for me." Almost spewed Diet Coke on the monitor. I never even heard "sheeple" before, but I can see I'm just behind the times because it is already in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheeple). Yes, I'd like to echo that sentiment - 'sheeple' caused fits of laughter in our office :) I agree. Considering that I've been on this list and the thread with the most messages in that time has basically turned into an editor war (e.g. vi vs. emacs vs. pick-your-favorite-ide), I'm glad to see at least some humor coming out of it... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Glade WxDesigner QT (I forget the name of their forms product) Oh and if we are sadistic: Kylix. I hate to say it but none of the above mentioned are in the same class as Delphi except for Kylix. Kylix is a bear to deploy but it is still the best IDE of all the ones you mentioned above, and the only reason Borland does not maintain it is because it sold poorly. It seems these days everybody wants something for nothing. Kylix is still great for creating server side applications such as tcp/ip daemons and apache DSOs. As of right now Lazarus is the better desktop choice when compared to Kylix. And Kylix does not use WINE to create executables, it creates totally native ELF executables. they just used winelib to port the IDE. The problem with all the ones you mentioned is you have to design the forms separately and glade is just terrible to work with. None of them are true RAD solutions. -- Tony Caduto http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql 8.x ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 16:29:05 -0400, John DeSoi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But mainly I just want to thank the other posters for "junior sales > sheeple from MS" and "I don't particularly like MacOSX. It seems > entirely too Charlie and the Chocolate factory for me." Almost spewed > Diet Coke on the monitor. I never even heard "sheeple" before, but I > can see I'm just behind the times because it is already in Wikipedia > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheeple). You need to read more anti-government rants. I know I ran accross "sheeple" at least several years ago. And since it pronounces nicely and the notion of people acting like sheep goes back a long way, I expect that term does as well. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Bruno Wolff III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > You need to read more anti-government rants. I know I ran accross "sheeple" > at least several years ago. And since it pronounces nicely and the notion > of people acting like sheep goes back a long way, I expect that term does > as well. Google is your friend ... a moment's searching shows the term documented in 1984. Macmillan seems to believe that's the first use, but it's not clear how hard they looked. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Caduto > > One example is LimeWire, while it works well, it takes forever to load and Six seconds on mine. Best regards, Jim Wilson -- Jim Wilson Kelco Industries PO Box 160 Milbridge, ME 04658 207-546-7989 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> BTW who was the EXPERT that slammed java performance? > > No clue, but java sucks on the desktop :) > No it doesn't (unless you mean when tilting your coffee mug. Hmm, no, then you would need something that actually sucks java). Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dan Armbrust wrote: You live in an interesting world... meanwhile, I'm here in the real world, using Eclipse - the best IDE I've ever used to develop java applications. Oh, wait, Eclipse is written in Java? I didn't think it was possible to write good apps in java? Certainly better than visual studio (and yes, I have to use both - eclipse is a far better IDE in my opinion). Oh, and I can run eclipse on my linux desktop as well as my windows desktop? Thats just cool. Oh, and my next machine? Definitely a Mac. And it woks there too - just like all of my SWT apps do. I will admit, it is rather easy to write slow java swing applications There are a lot of poor ones out there. Its a shame that Sun botched swing so badly, and have never repaired it properly. Its not impossible to write fast, responsive apps in swing, it just takes skilled developers. And its a pain. However, now with the emergence of SWT and modern JVM's - there is no reason for your java GUI to be any slower than anything else. The only excuse for a slow java app these days is the quality of the code that it is built with. And you can write a bad, slow app in any language. Cool. At least one that actually knows what he's talking about and have real life experience. I'm also using Eclipse and a slew of other Java apps. No complaints whatsoever on performance. Not too happy about all C/C++ apps that crash on illegal memory access though... +1 (or 10) for Java on the desktop. I will not spend time on a war that cannot be fought in this forum. Just wanted to air my opinion this once :-) Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
-Original Message- From: Tony Caduto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 5/13/2006 2:57 PM To: Dave Page Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > It's not that derogatory Dave, > All that page mentions is the weird quirks on win32, I am sure you know > what those are, i.e. windows suddenly lose there size and position info > and appear in the upper left corner of the screen in a semi minimized > state, there are others. I would hardly call those cross-platform quirks. More like unreported bugs. If you or anyone else can provide more details I'm sure we can look at them. > Fix the problems and I will remove the thing about the quirks. The > other stuff was mentioned by customers in the testimonials. Maybe, but it's still on your site, adding to the impression that you are only comparing PGLA to pgAdmin. How about Joshua's idea? Are you up for a creating a true and honest feature comparison between the two of us? > And you do realize you started that whole flame fest yesterday because > you had to chime in that 'but does it run on Linux', the guy I responded > to had stated he was running on windows, now why would a windows user > give one iota if a program runs on linux or not? Iirc, you said something about managing PG installs on any platform even though the OP had said Windows. I think my question was valid - and the answer that PGLA now does run under Wine is certainly a plus point for you. You also mentioned other technologies that might allow a more native build (Lazarus was it?) - I have no idea whether or not you've experimented with such things and have a linux build in the pipeline. My only comment that was semi-intended as a flame was in response to a message of yours that I misunderstood, and for which I apologised publically as soon as I realised what I had done. > Why don't you just drop win32 support and leave the commercial market > to us proprietary coders :-) Seriously, there are now more than enough > commercial admin tools available to support the PG windows market. Given the lack of an IDE that I like better than VS on any of our other platforms, I can't see that happening :-) > I would appreciate you not chiming in with 'does it run on linux?' > If you agree to that I will make the changes on my site(testimonials) > you desire. I don't think the people that wrote those will be happy > but oh well. OK, I won't ask such questions in future - and for what it's worth, I don't object to you having testimonials from your customers, just please make them less obviously biased against our product - I'm sure you've seen how other ads deal with it, speaking of 'leading competitors' etc. > oh, and I had PGLA working in basic form a week after Andreas's little > comment to me, it's just been polished since then :-) Which speaks well of your tools and your mastery of them. It's hard to say good for you without it sounding like I'm taking the p**s, but it is sincere! :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 17:27 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > > > Why don't you just drop win32 support and leave the commercial > market > > to us proprietary coders :-) Seriously, there are now more than > enough > > commercial admin tools available to support the PG windows market. I can't find the original mail which contained this, but I have to say this would be a monstrous step backwards. For me, cross-platform is the future for desktop apps. People want to be able to run the application they want to run and not be constrained by the OS they're running on. If I'm working at a client's site and all they have is one OS, I want to be able to use the tools I'm comfortable with regardless of my preferred OS. That's why I use OO, Firefox, Gaim, jedit etc. OS is irrelevant and will before long become a preference rather than being dictated by the application you want to run. Just my opinion. :) -- Russ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Tino Wildenhain wrote: Kenneth Downs schrieb: Dave Page wrote: On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again I'll know who to notify. As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always involves a click-drag situation. Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly into the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in the result you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and X freezes in this case. However you can login via another box and just kill pgadmin to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem with how drag & drop is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea. It only happens in pgAdmin III, though, so it must be some strange interaction between wxWindows and GTK. I believe that the window manager is part of the problem too, because I've used KDE (together with kwin) for the last few years, and while it had this freezing-problem initially, it went away with some update. I believed that a wx or pgadmin update solved this, but now I'm using Gnome (together with metacity), and the problem is back... :-( However, I figured out that if you press ALT- with being the shortcut for some menu _directly_ after the freeze, the menu opens, and the mouse pointer is restored back to it's normal shape... It won't work if you click around after X freezes - I guess pgadminIII has to still have the focus for this to work... greetings, Florian Pflug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Florian G. Pflug wrote: Tino Wildenhain wrote: Kenneth Downs schrieb: Dave Page wrote: On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a coredump? The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again I'll know who to notify. As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always involves a click-drag situation. Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly into the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in the result you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and X freezes in this case. However you can login via another box and just kill pgadmin to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem with how drag & drop is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea. It only happens in pgAdmin III, though, so it must be some strange interaction between wxWindows and GTK. I believe that the window manager is part of the problem too, because I've used KDE (together with kwin) for the last few years, and while it had this freezing-problem initially, it went away with some update. I believed that a wx or pgadmin update solved this, but now I'm using Gnome (together with metacity), and the problem is back... :-( However, I figured out that if you press ALT- with being the shortcut for some menu _directly_ after the freeze, the menu opens, and Wow this is good to know. I'm also glad to know I'm not the only person this is happening to. begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
-Original Message- From: "Kenneth Downs"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 14/05/06 21:31:15 To: "pgsql-general@postgresql.org" Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface > Florian G. Pflug wrote: > > However, I figured out that if you press ALT- with being the > > shortcut for some menu _directly_ after the freeze, the menu opens, and > Wow this is good to know. > I'm also glad to know I'm not the only person this is happening to. Kenneth; what platform are you running on, and ehich window manager are you using? Regards, Dave -Unmodified Original Message- Florian G. Pflug wrote: > Tino Wildenhain wrote: > >> Kenneth Downs schrieb: >> >>> Dave Page wrote: >>> >>>> On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only >>>> program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X >>>> server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can >>>> connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after >>>> an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it. >>>> That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from >>>> a coredump? >>>> >>> The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens >>> again I'll know who to notify. >>> >>> As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If >>> there was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a >>> row in the results, and then clicked into the upper window while >>> dragging the mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened >>> much much less often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, >>> and it always involves a click-drag situation. >> >> >> Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly into >> the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in the result >> you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and X freezes in this >> case. However you can login via another box and just kill pgadmin >> to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem with how drag & drop >> is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea. > > It only happens in pgAdmin III, though, so it must be some strange > interaction between wxWindows and GTK. I believe that the window manager > is part of the problem too, because I've used KDE (together with kwin) > for the last few years, and while it had this freezing-problem > initially, it went away with some update. I believed that a wx or > pgadmin update solved this, but now I'm using Gnome (together with > metacity), and the problem is back... :-( > > However, I figured out that if you press ALT- with being the > shortcut for some menu _directly_ after the freeze, the menu opens, and Wow this is good to know. I'm also glad to know I'm not the only person this is happening to. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface
Dave Page wrote: Wow this is good to know. I'm also glad to know I'm not the only person this is happening to. Kenneth; what platform are you running on, and ehich window manager are you using? Regards, Dave gentoo linux on an AMD. here are some stats, if you tell me any other packages you need versions for I can provide those. kernel 2.6.8 KDE 3.3.2 gtk+ 2.4.14 pgadmin3 1.2.2 The window manager would be whatever the default for KDE is. begin:vcard fn:Kenneth Downs n:Downs;Kenneth email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:631-689-7200 tel;fax:631-689-0527 tel;cell:631-379-0010 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
