Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Vincent Veyron]

Le jeudi 22 août 2013 à 20:06 -0400, Don Parris a écrit :

>  locale showed everything *except* LC_ALL as being en_US.UTF-8.
> LC_ALL was empty.  I can only guess that the LC_ALL setting may have
> played a part in the problem.

I doubt it, mine was not set either and the installation went fine. See
the output of locale on my machine : 

LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=
LC_CTYPE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_NUMERIC="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_TIME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_COLLATE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MESSAGES="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_NAME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_ADDRESS="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_TELEPHONE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MEASUREMENT="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_ALL=


>   See my previous e-mail (sent just a  few minutes before this one).  

Agreed : change your settings, then create the cluster. 

I would stick with the standard 'apt-get install', unless you have a
reason not to.


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Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Don Parris]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Vincent Veyron  wrote:

> Le jeudi 22 août 2013 à 11:29 -0400, Don Parris a écrit :
>
> >   Still, how could I have made UTF-8 the default encoding at install
> > time?
>
> I did several recent installations of Postgresql on Debian Wheezy with
> UTF8 and LATIN9, and my system's encoding was used every time.
>
> Installation steps outlined below.
>
> Before you install Postgresql, make sure your systems encoding is set to
> UTF-8, which you can check with :
> locale -a
>
> If it's not, run :
> dpkg-reconfigure locales
>
> and select UTF-8 for your language.
>
> Use apt-get to install Postgresql :
> apt-get install postgresql postgresql-client
>
> I'm not sure if Kubuntu adds some overhead to the installation process.
> You might want to try a regular debian install and add the KDE desktop
> to it.
>
>
Thanks Vincent.  locale showed everything *except* LC_ALL as being
en_US.UTF-8.  LC_ALL was empty.  I can only guess that the LC_ALL setting
may have played a part in the problem.  See my previous e-mail (sent just
a  few minutes before this one).  I may have also been fine if that system
had not lost connectivity.  Trying out things on OpenSUSE 12.3, I do have
SSH connectivity and the Postgres server came up with template1 encoded as
UTF-8 by default.  I'll test out the pgsql remote connectivity soon as well.

Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Don Parris]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Don Parris  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Stuart Bishop wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Don Parris  wrote:
>>
>> 

> you install the PostgreSQL packages, it runs pg_createcluster for you.
>> If you don't like the locale or encoding you used, you run
>> pg_dropcluster and pg_createcluster as you did. The reason why your
>> database did not work after doing this is probably obvious from your
>> log files.
>>
>>
>> Hi Stuart,
>
>
> 
>


> But I still come back to the locale issue.  I am glad I was on the right
> track in replacing the cluster.  Still, how could I have made UTF-8 the
> default encoding at install time?  Maybe the very first step on a Kubuntu
> system should be to replace the cluster before doing anything else.  Or
> maybe there is a locale setting that can be changed to ensure the pgsql
> package gets the 'right' cues?
>
>
>
> 
I did find a (bit dated) response on the UbuntuForums site, but assume the
basic advice applies:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/20880/how-do-i-create-a-unicode-databases-in-postgresql-8-4

~#export LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8
~#export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
~#export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8
~#locale-gen en_US.UTF-8
~#dpkg-reconfigure locales


The recommendation is to change the OS locale settings and use dpkg to
reconfigure locales *before* recreating the cluster.

I really do think the Ubuntu documentation needs to clarify that.

Finally, I am ever more convinced that a recent update effectively blew up
my connectivity.

-- 
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Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
http://dcparris.net/

GPG Key ID: F5E179BE

Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Vincent Veyron]

Le jeudi 22 août 2013 à 11:29 -0400, Don Parris a écrit :

>   Still, how could I have made UTF-8 the default encoding at install
> time?  

I did several recent installations of Postgresql on Debian Wheezy with
UTF8 and LATIN9, and my system's encoding was used every time.

Installation steps outlined below.

Before you install Postgresql, make sure your systems encoding is set to
UTF-8, which you can check with :
locale -a 

If it's not, run :
dpkg-reconfigure locales

and select UTF-8 for your language.

Use apt-get to install Postgresql :
apt-get install postgresql postgresql-client

I'm not sure if Kubuntu adds some overhead to the installation process.
You might want to try a regular debian install and add the KDE desktop
to it.


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http://marica.fr/site/demonstration
Logiciel de gestion des contentieux juridiques et des sinistres d'assurance



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Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Don Parris]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Stuart Bishop wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Don Parris  wrote:
>
> > I did run pg_dropcluster, pg_createcluster (setting locale to C.UTF8) -
> and
> > that seemed to work, except that I could not thereafter make remote
> > connections (despite resetting the hba and postgres.conf files as they
> > should be).
>
> Rather than chasing locales, I'd look into why you failed here. When
> you install the PostgreSQL packages, it runs pg_createcluster for you.
> If you don't like the locale or encoding you used, you run
> pg_dropcluster and pg_createcluster as you did. The reason why your
> database did not work after doing this is probably obvious from your
> log files.
>
>
> Hi Stuart,



Hi Stuart,


Your point is valid and well-taken.  I discovered a couple of other issues
in my poking around:

<> The pgsql logs turned up empty (literally), so would have to rely on
system logs for any hints of connection issues.

<> It seems my iptables was ruined - I kept getting errors about needing an
update and the software update manager kept giving me errors on kernel
updates.  I could not create iptables rules to open the port.

<> I also had problems with my SSH service.

I really suspect the whole connectivity issue was related to updates and
something going South with my iptables setup (among other possible issues).
 I had been able to connect remotely before I replaced the cluster, but not
after, so I just cannot be too sure what ultimately caused the problem.


But I still come back to the locale issue.  I am glad I was on the right
track in replacing the cluster.  Still, how could I have made UTF-8 the
default encoding at install time?  Maybe the very first step on a Kubuntu
system should be to replace the cluster before doing anything else.  Or
maybe there is a locale setting that can be changed to ensure the pgsql
package gets the 'right' cues?



An OpenSUSE 12.3 installation with pgsql 9.2 comes up with a UTF8-encoded
template1.  So why does the (K)Ubuntu package default to an ASCII-encoded
template1?  When I read the fine manual (and it really is pretty good), I
get the impression it is best to let initdb/pg_createcluster take its cue
from the OS locale settings.  If my locale on Kubuntu shows up as UTF-8,
then why the seeming miscue?  I am certain there is a reasonable
explanation, but that eludes me at this point.

Regards,
Don

-- 
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Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
http://dcparris.net/

GPG Key ID: F5E179BE

Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Stuart Bishop]

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Don Parris  wrote:

> I did run pg_dropcluster, pg_createcluster (setting locale to C.UTF8) - and
> that seemed to work, except that I could not thereafter make remote
> connections (despite resetting the hba and postgres.conf files as they
> should be).

Rather than chasing locales, I'd look into why you failed here. When
you install the PostgreSQL packages, it runs pg_createcluster for you.
If you don't like the locale or encoding you used, you run
pg_dropcluster and pg_createcluster as you did. The reason why your
database did not work after doing this is probably obvious from your
log files.


-- 
Stuart Bishop 
http://www.stuartbishop.net/


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Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Don Parris]

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Don Parris  writes:
> 
>


> initdb will absorb locale/encoding from its environment, unless told
> otherwise through a --locale switch.  So the usual expectation would be
> that it'd work like you want.  Perhaps the Ubuntu packager set LANG=C in
> the postgres user's ~/.profile, or some such?  Poke around a bit in the
> package's files, it shouldn't be too hard to find where the damage is
> being done.
>
> regards, tom lane
>

Thanks Tom,

I'll check that out.

-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP, Linux+, ESL Certificate
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
http://dcparris.net/

GPG Key ID: F5E179BE

Re: [GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Tom Lane]

Don Parris  writes:
> When I install the Kubuntu (13.04) postgresql (9.1) packages, the default
> template1 encoding turns out to be ASCII, which is not really what I want.
> My OS locale command reveals everything to be en_US.UTF-8, except for
> LC_ALL, which is left open.

initdb will absorb locale/encoding from its environment, unless told
otherwise through a --locale switch.  So the usual expectation would be
that it'd work like you want.  Perhaps the Ubuntu packager set LANG=C in
the postgres user's ~/.profile, or some such?  Poke around a bit in the
package's files, it shouldn't be too hard to find where the damage is
being done.

regards, tom lane


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[GENERAL] Locale Issue

[Don Parris]

Hi all,

When I install the Kubuntu (13.04) postgresql (9.1) packages, the default
template1 encoding turns out to be ASCII, which is not really what I want.
My OS locale command reveals everything to be en_US.UTF-8, except for
LC_ALL, which is left open.

I am guessing that my best bet is to change the locale settings of my OS in
order to get postgresql server to use a UTF-8 locale setting from the
system.  But which setting should I change?

I did run pg_dropcluster, pg_createcluster (setting locale to C.UTF8) - and
that seemed to work, except that I could not thereafter make remote
connections (despite resetting the hba and postgres.conf files as they
should be).

Thanks!
Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP, Linux+, ESL Certificate
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
http://dcparris.net/

GPG Key ID: F5E179BE