Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Richard Huxton wrote, On 15-Jul-2008 15:19: Sergey Konoplev wrote: Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. I did long ago. For this to work you need to bypass the MVCC rules (to some extend). You CANNOT do this with SQL statements, as there is no infrastructure for this. For now you are bound to native foreign keys or triggers written in C using (unsupported?) functions. - Joris -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Richard Huxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sergey Konoplev wrote: Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. I'm not sure I've understood you right, sorry. Does rewrite PG's foreign-key code mean DDL? If it does how could I do this? No, I was saying that to change this you'd have to alter PostgreSQL's source-code. You'd also have the issue of what to do with other triggers. You'd need some priority level setting to allow some triggers to override other triggers, but not the reverse. If you really want to suppress deletion from table2 while enforcing deletion via foreign-key you're best off with something like: CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION fktrigfn() RETURNS TRIGGER AS $$ BEGIN PERFORM 1 FROM table1 WHERE a = OLD.aref; IF FOUND THEN RAISE NOTICE 'aborting delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN NULL; ELSE RAISE NOTICE 'allowing delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN OLD; END IF; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; That should be OK, because the row should always be marked as removed from table1 before the delete cascades. Well, your solution doesn't solve the main problem that sounds like Table2 contains rows with FK fields refer to deleted rows from table1 when ON DELETE action of the FKs is CASCADE. The only additional thing fktrigfn() does is informing about zombie rows appearance in logs. -- Regards, Sergey Konoplev -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
The code you posted is a clear case of doing things wrong deliberately. Yes It's just an example. My real code is more complex of course. In order to prevent this error, you would need to rewrite large parts of Postgres's code which checks referential integrity, and there would still be things that deliberately wrong DDL, triggers, rules, etc. could do. Sad to hear it. Anyway thanx for explanation. -- Regards, Sergey Konoplev -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Sergey Konoplev wrote: CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION fktrigfn() RETURNS TRIGGER AS $$ BEGIN PERFORM 1 FROM table1 WHERE a = OLD.aref; IF FOUND THEN RAISE NOTICE 'aborting delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN NULL; ELSE RAISE NOTICE 'allowing delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN OLD; END IF; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; That should be OK, because the row should always be marked as removed from table1 before the delete cascades. Well, your solution doesn't solve the main problem that sounds like Table2 contains rows with FK fields refer to deleted rows from table1 when ON DELETE action of the FKs is CASCADE. The only additional thing fktrigfn() does is informing about zombie rows appearance in logs. It does work around the problem. The perform line sets found to true if the row exists in the referred table and returns the NULL to prevent the delete without crashing the transaction. If it doesn't find the row in the referred table, then it assumes it must be in a foreign key cascading delete and returns OLD so that the rest of the delete happens. i.e. the sequence of events is 1. statement delete from table1 where pk=blah 2. the row is removed from table1 3. attempt delete on table2 4. fktrigfn fires 5. found is set to false by the perform 6. old is returned 7. the row is removed from table2 as opposed to 1. statement delete from table2 where pk=foo 2. fktrigfn fires 3. found is set to true by the perform 4. null is returned 5. nothing changes You would need to work the same logic into where you return null in your real trigger. klint. -- Klint Gore Database Manager Sheep CRC A.G.B.U. University of New England Armidale NSW 2350 Ph: 02 6773 3789 Fax: 02 6773 3266 EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Sergey Konoplev wrote: There is an oddity (or a bug) in situation with returning null before delete trigger and referential integrity in PG 8.3.3. I tryed to find a solution in Google and PG documentation and have noticed nothing useful. [snip] CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION tr_stop() RETURNS trigger AS $BODY$begin return null; end;$BODY$ LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE; CREATE TRIGGER tr_stop BEFORE DELETE ON table2 FOR EACH ROW EXECUTE PROCEDURE tr_stop(); [snip] Now comming to a head. As I supposed earlier, deletion from table1 has to be prevented by referential integrity when the trigger prevents deletion of refered row from table2. But it doesn't. [snip] Will you explain me please why PG behave so cos IMHO it's a bit illogical. Thanx. Your trigger doesn't prevent deletion, it just skips the row(s) in question from being affected. Raise an exception if you want to abort the transaction. See the manual - triggers chapter and plpgsql chapter for more details. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Richard Huxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sergey Konoplev wrote: There is an oddity (or a bug) in situation with returning null before delete trigger and referential integrity in PG 8.3.3. I tryed to find a solution in Google and PG documentation and have noticed nothing useful. [snip] CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION tr_stop() RETURNS trigger AS $BODY$begin return null; end;$BODY$ LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE; CREATE TRIGGER tr_stop BEFORE DELETE ON table2 FOR EACH ROW EXECUTE PROCEDURE tr_stop(); [snip] Now comming to a head. As I supposed earlier, deletion from table1 has to be prevented by referential integrity when the trigger prevents deletion of refered row from table2. But it doesn't. [snip] Will you explain me please why PG behave so cos IMHO it's a bit illogical. Thanx. Your trigger doesn't prevent deletion, it just skips the row(s) in question from being affected. Raise an exception if you want to abort the transaction. See the manual - triggers chapter and plpgsql chapter for more details. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd -- Regards, Sergey Konoplev -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Sergey Konoplev wrote: Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. I'm not sure I've understood you right, sorry. Does rewrite PG's foreign-key code mean DDL? If it does how could I do this? -- Regards, Sergey Konoplev -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 06:02:27PM +0400, Sergey Konoplev wrote: Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. I'm not sure I've understood you right, sorry. Does rewrite PG's foreign-key code mean DDL? If it does how could I do this? The code you posted is a clear case of doing things wrong deliberately. In order to prevent this error, you would need to rewrite large parts of Postgres's code which checks referential integrity, and there would still be things that deliberately wrong DDL, triggers, rules, etc. could do. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Referential integrity vulnerability in 8.3.3
Sergey Konoplev wrote: Yes it is. But it the way to break integrity cos rows from table2 still refer to deleted rows from table1. So it conflicts with ideology isn't it? Yes, but I'm not sure you could have a sensible behaviour-modifying BEFORE trigger without this loophole. Don't forget, ordinary users can't work around this - you need suitable permissions. You could rewrite PG's foreign-key code to check the referencing table after the delete is supposed to have taken place, and make sure it has. That's going to halve the speed of all your foreign-key checks though. I'm not sure I've understood you right, sorry. Does rewrite PG's foreign-key code mean DDL? If it does how could I do this? No, I was saying that to change this you'd have to alter PostgreSQL's source-code. You'd also have the issue of what to do with other triggers. You'd need some priority level setting to allow some triggers to override other triggers, but not the reverse. If you really want to suppress deletion from table2 while enforcing deletion via foreign-key you're best off with something like: CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION fktrigfn() RETURNS TRIGGER AS $$ BEGIN PERFORM 1 FROM table1 WHERE a = OLD.aref; IF FOUND THEN RAISE NOTICE 'aborting delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN NULL; ELSE RAISE NOTICE 'allowing delete for %', OLD.aref; RETURN OLD; END IF; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; That should be OK, because the row should always be marked as removed from table1 before the delete cascades. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
