Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
Liraz Siri wrote: Solaris is awesome (dtrace rocks!), but I still prefer Debian/Linux for the same reasons I prefer PostgreSQL over MySQL - its lack of dependence on any single company. OpenSolaris? -- Guy Rouillier -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
2008/12/10 Liraz Siri [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* Solaris is awesome (dtrace rocks!), but I still prefer Debian/Linux for the same reasons I prefer PostgreSQL over MySQL - its lack of dependence on any single company. But in the other hand, solaris platform has got a really good deployment in clusterization for Open Solaris and Solaris (visit http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5578/cacjgdbc?a=view or http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/postgresql_opensolaris.jsp ) Zfs in combination with PITR could be am exelent way too. Too many people think in Sun +Mysql but in fact, Sun still works on Postgresql. Besides Sun Microsystems hasn't been a financially healthy organization for quite a few years, as evidenced by its rather dismal stock performance: Big companies are in these ways... But i long time measures the have constant growings and mores stable numbers. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=java Cheers, Liraz -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general -- Emanuel Calvo Franco Syscope Postgresql Consultant ArPUG / AOSUG Member -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* :-) And don't forget about BSD. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 15:55 -0500, Eric Schwarzenbach wrote: Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* :-) And don't forget about BSD. BSD is dying. -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 15:55 -0500, Eric Schwarzenbach wrote: Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* :-) And don't forget about BSD. BSD is dying. Cron can find no entry for this event. We apologize for any inconvenience. - Andrew
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
Joshua D. Drake wrote: BSD is dying. We all are, sooner or later ;) -- Guy Rouillier -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. This is one of the reasons we plan on releasing appliances that are based on Debian in addition to Ubuntu in the next few months. Cheers, Liraz Greg Smith wrote: On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Scott Marlowe wrote: Are you familiar with this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/linux/+bug/245779 It's the reason my latest db servers are running Centos 5.2, sadly. By the time I'd found the suggested workaround of setting a boot option of NO_HZ=y I was already migrated off ubuntu for db servers. Don't want to drag Liraz's thread completely off-topic, thus the new subject. The response to that bug demonstrates one reason why I get a bit worked up when people suggest using Ubuntu for any serious server work. Even when bugs get fixed, it's far too often only via installing a newer kernel, which puts you back to square one as far as testing goes. Ubuntu puts minimal resources into back-porting kernel fixes into any earlier version, LTS or not, because they're consumed with constantly churning out new versions. The usual cut-and-paste response appears in your thread same as it does in all the similar ones: The Ubuntu Kernel Team is planning to move to the 2.6.27 kernel for the upcoming Intrepid Ibex 8.10 release. As a result, the kernel team would appreciate it if you could please test this newer 2.6.27 Ubuntu kernel. A good eye-opener if you don't believe who I'm characterizing things is take a look at the location your bug ended up being parked at (and may very well die at): https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-team/+assignedbugs There you can gauge for yourself how concerned they are with fixing bugs in older versions. You can't support yearly long-term support releases and aggresively back-port fixes without way more resources dumped onto the kernel team than Ubuntu has to apply. Even RedHat, who has a lot more kernel engineers, doesn't even try. That's part of the reason why it took more than two years between RHEL4 and 5. They were busy that whole time backporting kernel fixes into the stable kernel, with major update drops to it every six months, rather than just plowing ahead only worrying about the newer ones. I love Ubuntu on the desktop, but you combine its aggresive releases and limited kernel fix backporting with how much general kernel testing quality keeps going down and you get a grim combination. I've realized this is just an unavoidable consequence of how much change the Linux kernel is going under every single day. Nobody seem to care anymore about focusing on any individual kernel version long enough to squash its bugs right anymore; those will all get fixed in the next version, right? -- * Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* :-) -- Robert Treat Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net Consulting: http://www.omniti.com -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
Robert Treat wrote: On Tuesday 09 December 2008 19:43:02 Liraz Siri wrote: Greg has a good point. Ubuntu is a bit of a moving target. In contrast, Debian has a much slower release cycle than Ubuntu and is thus considered by many people to be preferable for production server applications. Another option for folks is to switch to another operating system thats a bit more stable *cough*solaris*cough*bsd*cough* Solaris is awesome (dtrace rocks!), but I still prefer Debian/Linux for the same reasons I prefer PostgreSQL over MySQL - its lack of dependence on any single company. Besides Sun Microsystems hasn't been a financially healthy organization for quite a few years, as evidenced by its rather dismal stock performance: http://finance.google.com/finance?q=java Cheers, Liraz -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
Re: [GENERAL] Ubuntu for servers (was TurnKey PostgreSQL)
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Scott Marlowe wrote: Are you familiar with this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/linux/+bug/245779 It's the reason my latest db servers are running Centos 5.2, sadly. By the time I'd found the suggested workaround of setting a boot option of NO_HZ=y I was already migrated off ubuntu for db servers. Don't want to drag Liraz's thread completely off-topic, thus the new subject. The response to that bug demonstrates one reason why I get a bit worked up when people suggest using Ubuntu for any serious server work. Even when bugs get fixed, it's far too often only via installing a newer kernel, which puts you back to square one as far as testing goes. Ubuntu puts minimal resources into back-porting kernel fixes into any earlier version, LTS or not, because they're consumed with constantly churning out new versions. The usual cut-and-paste response appears in your thread same as it does in all the similar ones: The Ubuntu Kernel Team is planning to move to the 2.6.27 kernel for the upcoming Intrepid Ibex 8.10 release. As a result, the kernel team would appreciate it if you could please test this newer 2.6.27 Ubuntu kernel. A good eye-opener if you don't believe who I'm characterizing things is take a look at the location your bug ended up being parked at (and may very well die at): https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-team/+assignedbugs There you can gauge for yourself how concerned they are with fixing bugs in older versions. You can't support yearly long-term support releases and aggresively back-port fixes without way more resources dumped onto the kernel team than Ubuntu has to apply. Even RedHat, who has a lot more kernel engineers, doesn't even try. That's part of the reason why it took more than two years between RHEL4 and 5. They were busy that whole time backporting kernel fixes into the stable kernel, with major update drops to it every six months, rather than just plowing ahead only worrying about the newer ones. I love Ubuntu on the desktop, but you combine its aggresive releases and limited kernel fix backporting with how much general kernel testing quality keeps going down and you get a grim combination. I've realized this is just an unavoidable consequence of how much change the Linux kernel is going under every single day. Nobody seem to care anymore about focusing on any individual kernel version long enough to squash its bugs right anymore; those will all get fixed in the next version, right? -- * Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
